fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Weird it is almost as if the free will of the holders doesn't actually matter just theirs.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
I mean the holders get to not talk to them too. Harry had the option to just ignore Lash until she faded away, it is just that this would have also killed his magic.
Do Fallen in the coins need faith to sustain their existence in the material world? Or is this a question of gaining access to additional power source? And does the faith need to be specific (i.e. them having cults) or generalized (i.e. they get a portion of Abrahamic religion's faith output)? Because to be honest, the more you explain, the more confused I become. If the Fallen in the coins need faith directed at them to sustain themselves, and Lash also needs the same, then we either have to set up a cult for her before incarnating her, or she somehow needs to be able to feed off the ambient "Christianity field" (and would not be able to sustain herself in our kingdom for long). Or how does this work?
They need it to do things, according to Lash, specifically do to things in imitation of their angelic powers. Most of what the Fallen do for their hosts on a day to day basis is advise and guide.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
So Anduriel's listening to shadows trick likely isn't free to use beyond just taking time to use it likely also needs juice.
Molly cannot ask that question, since that is information from canon that she does not have and that Lash does not have (she does not know he can do that), but just in general you guys could debrief her once she has her body.
So, does Lash get some "basic income" (from a) being embodied and ensouled and generating faith energy / essence herself in some quantities, b) generalized abrahamic faith)?
You are going to have to embody her to see that, this is breaking new ground, the Fallen to not normally have a full soul inside a human-like though not human body.
- Location
- Near Water
The effect would be similar to the ritual of the sundered soul from dark ages devils due. The above ritual fuses the demon and the human together, mixing both the souls and the mind. I supposed creating the vessel for lash would be the (body) that would be used to fuse lash together with the po soul.
Tangential to the current discussion, but since we're turning back to the council it's probably worth considering if we should mention Arianna at some point.
I honestly didn't think our involvement would remain this discreet this long, but it won't stay that way forever. Mentioning that we killed her for sending a Naagoloshi to Chicago who ended up messing with us on its way to Harry is probably the best way that can come out.
Not sure on the level of detail to get into. The more we mention the more we get to shape the narrative, and the more insight they get into us. There's also the matter that getting out in front of a story doesn't ensure you'll be believed, and the white council isn't going to just swallow anything we give them.
Still, at minimum letting them know what's going on saves them some trouble at little cost to us. Which makes it good for generating goodwill.
I honestly didn't think our involvement would remain this discreet this long, but it won't stay that way forever. Mentioning that we killed her for sending a Naagoloshi to Chicago who ended up messing with us on its way to Harry is probably the best way that can come out.
Not sure on the level of detail to get into. The more we mention the more we get to shape the narrative, and the more insight they get into us. There's also the matter that getting out in front of a story doesn't ensure you'll be believed, and the white council isn't going to just swallow anything we give them.
Still, at minimum letting them know what's going on saves them some trouble at little cost to us. Which makes it good for generating goodwill.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Molly: "So, Warden Morgan, is there a club for people who have offed a member of the Red Court nobility? I hear you're the guy to ask."
Morgan: "..."
Molly: "Is there a newsletter I'm missing out on? Or do I need to pay membership dues first?"
It's almost too bad we need the head for crafting purposes, that would make a funny due to offer.
Vote closed, next up a conversation with Harry
Arc 10 Post 24: Spirit to Scale
Spirit to Scale
17th of December 2006 A.D.
The accumulated lore of the Five Cities' spirit binders is no some ways akin to the way that J. may have approached his magic is vastly more polished by ages of study and the needs of an urbanizing population and an industrializing economy and yet if one looks closely enough at those introductory texts, as you had done since it would be reckless to hand lore over to a foreign organization sight unseen, one would find a point of divergence that informs every aspect of iterations between the physical and spiritual. Those Unseen are not to be worshiped and placated, they are to be bargained with. True they are possessed of lore and perspective that Those of Flesh are not, the eye that sees afar in time and space, the nearness of the energies of the world which they can manipulate as a singer with their voice alone, but so too is the material perspective, anchored in in one life and one place wondrous, precious.
As you riffle though the pages of textbooks your eyes fall on a drawing, a figure that shares with humankind only its posture for it is a mass of spiraling tentacles and eyes like chips of eyes, a reproduction of what scholars think the first Anointed must have appeared like, early attempts to wed the advantages of flesh and spirit. The results had often been agonizing short lived at times even worse, twisted in mind as the two natures warred within them.. but not always. Successive generations of magi passing on their lore from master to apprentice had slowly unraveled the points of conflict and those of commonality. Solutions abounded: from strict regiments of fasting and purification to walking into the midst of a raging storm wrists and ankles bound with steel allowing the lightning to dance though the would be channeler's form. So it had been that eventually in the City of Scrolls a quartet of the wisest and most daring magicians and proto-engineseers had put together the first Augmented.
Not a union of two but a union of three: Spirit flesh and matter.
The Covenant's theology adds two more to that, knowlege and faith to make an even five, but you are very glad to see that is not in the secular manuals, just a lot of circuit work and an equal number of warnings and danger signs, complete with advice on what the prospective binder should do in each case.
Hopefully this will sway the Senior Council in judging your people... responsible. It is hard to tell when nowhere in the books of sorcery is there any mention of the Seven Laws, magic does not seem work quite the same way, or maybe it is that the people of the Brass Courts do not work the same, even those who seem the most human. Regardless you close the book echoing the sigh of pages set to rest and head to meet with Harry.
***
Alas you do not find him in a good mood, spinning a brass gyro on a polished marble table, a battered notepad next to him. "Hi," he gets up to greet you, earning odd looks from the guards at the door of the meeting room even though they do not speak the language they can sense the informality. Nor everyone had gotten the memo about Harry it looks like. Not that he seems to notice or care. "I come bearing news about the magic boomsticks."
"I am assuming they are not all good news given that you are giving them to me in private," you cut to the chase.
He nods, more soberly. "Good news is they are every bit as safe and effective as you said, wish I had them last Haloween that's for sure.'
"And the less good news?"
"Bad news if is you gave me half an hour with a crate filled with —" he glances at his notes.—"Unkindled machine spirits, the ones that can't talk back at you yet, which is what you put in most guns I could sabotage them so they'd explode on a timer. It is not so bad with radios and phones since they do not have parts that are meant to explode, but an electro-laser or a mag riffle that is sabotage waiting to happen if any black hats get their hands on them."
One of the disadvantages of sharpening your senses to much is the ability to hear your own teeth grinding Better to be warned like this than when some warden got his hand burned off in balefire, you remind yourself. "How much safer are the kidled guns."
"Enough that I couldn't do it and someone better at enchanting than me would actually have to put some serious magic into it and be sure they are working uninterupted," he explains.
"How did Morgan take it?" you sigh.
"Dind't tell him yet, brought it to you so you'd have a change to think how to spin it," he admits, shifting a bit in his seat at the admission of his unsteady loyalties.
"You didn't have to..." You cut yourself off, of course he didn't have to, he still did it though. "Thanks."
Now thpough, how to spin it?
[] Only trade technology with a sapient machine spirit, limiting the scope of the aid to what volunters you can find for that
[] Allow the council to aquire tech with non-sapient machine spirits for use in non-crittical areas
[] Summon and bind spirits yourself to provide to the council from the Wicked City, there is no doubt in your mind they will take the change in circumstances with joy (Costs 2 AP Next month)
[] Write in
OOC: If Harry had not made the roll here things could have gone quite bad once those weapons got to the Council and the Ventori.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ugh. Will the White Council be okay with spirits from the Wicked City?
And to check my understanding, there is an effectively unlimited number of these and if we want to change their circumstances en masse we will probably have to conquer the hells?
And to check my understanding, there is an effectively unlimited number of these and if we want to change their circumstances en masse we will probably have to conquer the hells?
Yes, the limitation is how much time you are willing to put into it.
[X] Only trade technology with a sapient machine spirit, limiting the scope of the aid to what volunters you can find for that
-[X] Provide tech with non-sapient machine spirits to those Harry directly vouches for (and who aren't on the list of traitors) to minimize the chances of sabotage
I highly doubt volunteers are going to be the bottleneck. In a population of 5 billion, with what looks like an active military tradition, with no appreciable chance of death... Finding a couple thousand volunteers would be hard. White Council is just not big enough for that.
On spending 2 AP: next turn we have school, Rosie, Harvard (if we consider this,, we need to do this turn, we would be late about admissions already as it is), Porter's train body (if we are using Last Station this month for crafting, I want to repay Porter with a train body next month)... And I'd like to either start working on the manse or the god of Chicago. Or start learning our Courts' martial arts (and involve brother Devsimar in this). And we really should protect the Order of Cauldron (a guardian deity is a good idea). And if we are proactive, going after the Siriothrax's hoard is a good idea for resources... Basically, we are AP starved as is.
-[X] Provide tech with non-sapient machine spirits to those Harry directly vouches for (and who aren't on the list of traitors) to minimize the chances of sabotage
I highly doubt volunteers are going to be the bottleneck. In a population of 5 billion, with what looks like an active military tradition, with no appreciable chance of death... Finding a couple thousand volunteers would be hard. White Council is just not big enough for that.
On spending 2 AP: next turn we have school, Rosie, Harvard (if we consider this,, we need to do this turn, we would be late about admissions already as it is), Porter's train body (if we are using Last Station this month for crafting, I want to repay Porter with a train body next month)... And I'd like to either start working on the manse or the god of Chicago. Or start learning our Courts' martial arts (and involve brother Devsimar in this). And we really should protect the Order of Cauldron (a guardian deity is a good idea). And if we are proactive, going after the Siriothrax's hoard is a good idea for resources... Basically, we are AP starved as is.
[X] Only trade technology with a sapient machine spirit, limiting the scope of the aid to what volunters you can find for that
-[X] Provide tech with non-sapient machine spirits to those Harry directly vouches for (and who aren't on the list of traitors) to minimize the chances of sabotage
-[X] Provide tech with non-sapient machine spirits to those Harry directly vouches for (and who aren't on the list of traitors) to minimize the chances of sabotage
Remember you do not just need sapient machine spirits, you need sapient machine spirits who are OK with being housed in whatever piece of tech the council wants/needs and machine spirits of that level are the least numerous of your citizens, mostly found in large installations. Molly has been interacting with sapient guns an sapient tablets, but that is because she is the empress so gets the very best of whatever she asks for.
Tentatively:
[X] Only trade technology with a sapient machine spirit, limiting the scope of the aid to what volunters you can find for that
-[X] Provide tech with non-sapient machine spirits to those Harry directly vouches for (and who aren't on the list of traitors) to minimize the chances of sabotage
I would love to go with Wicked City spirits, but we are starved for APs as is. This said, I am very open for arguments, since I am not exactly happy with the idea of giving away sapient machine spirits in the first place.
[X] Only trade technology with a sapient machine spirit, limiting the scope of the aid to what volunters you can find for that
-[X] Provide tech with non-sapient machine spirits to those Harry directly vouches for (and who aren't on the list of traitors) to minimize the chances of sabotage
I would love to go with Wicked City spirits, but we are starved for APs as is. This said, I am very open for arguments, since I am not exactly happy with the idea of giving away sapient machine spirits in the first place.
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Isn't this still safer than modern guns, which will fail with little to no effort by the enemy at the drop of a hat? Presumably they can't do this to a gun in the middle of a fight any more than a gunsmith could sabotage regular one under the same conditions.
Which means that if the user knows enough to service the weapon they should be able to check it for fuckery, and if if never leaves their control it remains safe to use. That's true of most weapons and equipment; I mean, what's to stop this sort of trick from being pulled on a wizard's normal enchanted gear, like Harry's force rings? Even with something as simple as a revolver an opponent who captures it can make it unsafe to use with a saw if they want to.
Trading in sapients as an alternative is uncomfortable to say the least. Presumably there's something less like slavery happening here since Molly isn't freaking out. Maybe something like a time based employment contract that they renew, or else take the gun in to be serviced so the spirit can get released and replaced?
What do you pay them in, memes and gun oil?
Cyber devils are best devils, Mikaboshi doesn't deserve them. I'd say that's reason enough to invade the Wicked City* itself, never mind that it's also effectively the supernatural version of invading for oil.
@DragonParadox what's the FCF cultural equivalent of an aircraft carrier? I want to know where to hang the mission accomplished banner.
* Clippy for governor? I bet you we'd need to inform her in our palace so the wheel could resurrect her afterwards.
Guns cannot be set to explode on a precise timer with magic, there is nothing in there to link the spell to, these guns have a spirit linked into the firing mechanism and since they are very similar to each other you sabotage large numbers of them at a time.
Cyber devils are best devils, Mikaboshi doesn't deserve them. I'd say that's reason enough to invade the Wicked City* itself, never mind that it's also effectively the supernatural version of invading for oil.
@DragonParadox what's the FCF cultural equivalent of an aircraft carrier? I want to know where to hang the mission accomplished banner.
* Clippy for governor? I bet you we'd need to inform her in our palace so the wheel could resurrect her afterwards.
A large flying drone tender, they do not really have a place to stand on though.
So to be clear, doing that is a trivial operation performable in combat that can't be noticed and corrected by someone going over the thing for standard maintenance? Cause that seems like a very silly problem considering how our people make and use these with a better understanding of how they work and similarly casual access to magic.
Why would anyone switch to this weapon system to start with if they're so easy to screw with and hard to keep safe?
If they're as easy to sabotage for an expert as a modern gun is that's fair; it's certainly possible to do that. It's also typically possible to notice that if you pop it open unless they're really clever about it. Them being useless around magic users seems like a bit much though.
No, but it is something Black Council agents would be able to do easily with access to the guns and there are a lot of them infiltrating the White Council. They could time it so people who are going on a mission against the Red Court would have their weapons explode mid-combat or they could set an external trigger 'as soon as this gun comes close enough to a Red Court vampire it will explode'.