Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] She would ask Zheng Fu to lay in wait. (Slight delay, less obvious tip off)
Cao Chun recommends Jin Tae because that's who he has on hand, and who he knows. That doesn't mean he is an automatically better option compared to Zheng Fu because of Cao Chun's experience.
Cao Chun recommends Jin Tae because that's who he has on hand, and who he knows. That doesn't mean he is an automatically better option compared to Zheng Fu because of Cao Chun's experience.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
- Location
- South Africa
[X] She would agree with Cao Chun to allow Jin Tae to spot. (Longer delay, No tip off)
Arguments have convinced me that this is the best option.
Arguments have convinced me that this is the best option.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] She would agree with Cao Chun to allow Jin Tae to spot. (Longer delay, No tip off)
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmmm, this whole vote is about who will be a spotter for an investigation which is meant to discover the identity of the saboteurs without tip-off.
Excluding character preferences, it's about whether we want a tip-off to the enemy or not for a comparatively quicker response.
Considering that Shu Yue is handling the realm high realm spooks, letting off a tip-off may make things harder for them, since, usually, underlings tell their masters these stuff. The MoI are also handling their own operations, and this would also make things harder for them.
We only have one chance at that here. Once they know we're on to them, we can't take it back. And we don't know how they'll retaliate if they know we are on to them.
Sure, there is a delay, but this vote is essentially short term gains from the possible prevention of one incident compared to long-term gains from the possible prevention of one incident and the overall safety of the whole summit. And I prioritise the overall safety of what we're staking our entire political reputation on.
Seeing as how this is the second arc of twelve, there's still a lot of time for the saboteurs to escalate and ruin things for us if they know we're on to them. So far, they've been sticking to low-level incidents that can be explained away by incompatible geomancy or slight spirit agitation to hide their presence. If they're know they're known, I don't really see a lot of reasons for them to hide any longer since conspicuous sabotage would ruin any chance of peace.
The delay is a calculated risk, but I think it's worth it, looking at the person who suggested it.
He has a lot of experience in these types of operations. I'm pretty sure something would break inside of Cao Chun if he "callously" risked lives.
Again, all the sabotage have been low level so that we'll break ourselves up without drawing attention to the saboteurs. There will be danger, but there is a certain threshold for it.
If the expert thinks it is a manageable risk, I agree with him. Plus, there will be other MoI agents on sight who can also help with the Jin Tae option, which is a plus for me, since it'll mean more hands on deck.
Excluding character preferences, it's about whether we want a tip-off to the enemy or not for a comparatively quicker response.
Considering that Shu Yue is handling the realm high realm spooks, letting off a tip-off may make things harder for them, since, usually, underlings tell their masters these stuff. The MoI are also handling their own operations, and this would also make things harder for them.
We only have one chance at that here. Once they know we're on to them, we can't take it back. And we don't know how they'll retaliate if they know we are on to them.
Sure, there is a delay, but this vote is essentially short term gains from the possible prevention of one incident compared to long-term gains from the possible prevention of one incident and the overall safety of the whole summit. And I prioritise the overall safety of what we're staking our entire political reputation on.
Seeing as how this is the second arc of twelve, there's still a lot of time for the saboteurs to escalate and ruin things for us if they know we're on to them. So far, they've been sticking to low-level incidents that can be explained away by incompatible geomancy or slight spirit agitation to hide their presence. If they're know they're known, I don't really see a lot of reasons for them to hide any longer since conspicuous sabotage would ruin any chance of peace.
The delay is a calculated risk, but I think it's worth it, looking at the person who suggested it.
He has a lot of experience in these types of operations. I'm pretty sure something would break inside of Cao Chun if he "callously" risked lives.
Again, all the sabotage have been low level so that we'll break ourselves up without drawing attention to the saboteurs. There will be danger, but there is a certain threshold for it.
If the expert thinks it is a manageable risk, I agree with him. Plus, there will be other MoI agents on sight who can also help with the Jin Tae option, which is a plus for me, since it'll mean more hands on deck.
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I genuinely believe that the tip off risk of the Zheng option is being grossly overestimated.
The thing is, the saboteurs's plan is too advanced to stop it now.
The next attack is the culmination of all their efforts to ruin the summit. The biggest incident with actual casualties during the negotiations themselves to foil them.
They have to go through with their plan.
Ling Qi's absence would be too noticeable, to the point where they would actually alter their course of action.
Zheng Fu's absence might be suspicious, but the Zheng are known for their whimsical nature. Even if the culprits notice it, they can't afford to miss this chance, so they would still execute it regardless.
The difference is that Zheng Fu would be there to stop them. That's the crux of the matter.
Ling Qi's delay between the Jin and the Zheng option may be not all that longer one from the other.
The main difference is that the delay of the Jin option also applies to Zheng Fu. Even if Zheng Fu is coming with us when the alarm is raised, that's still time when neither of them are there.
Cao Chun has just admitted that he doesn't have many agents with dreamwalking capabilities. That's why he is proposing someone a year younger than Ling Qi as the spotter.
Zheng's presence in the attack's vicinity beforehand would be crucial to both catch the perpetrators red-handed and to minimize the damage they can cause.
If only Jin Tae is present at the time of attack, that would give the saboteurs much more ample opportunity to escape before both Zheng Fu and Ling Qi manage to get away from the negotiations and arrive to the scene.
So if the objective of this vote is to ensure we catch the saboteurs now so they don't keep causing problems later, then the presence of another dreamwalking expert spotter (Zheng Fu) would be much more beneficial than the nebolous absence of a tipping off.
No tipping off isn't equivalent to ensured capture. That's a false statement. Instant action is just as important for the effective apprehension of the perpetrators and Zheng Fu is much more capable and experienced to fulfil that role.
The thing is, the saboteurs's plan is too advanced to stop it now.
The next attack is the culmination of all their efforts to ruin the summit. The biggest incident with actual casualties during the negotiations themselves to foil them.
They have to go through with their plan.
Ling Qi's absence would be too noticeable, to the point where they would actually alter their course of action.
Zheng Fu's absence might be suspicious, but the Zheng are known for their whimsical nature. Even if the culprits notice it, they can't afford to miss this chance, so they would still execute it regardless.
The difference is that Zheng Fu would be there to stop them. That's the crux of the matter.
Ling Qi's delay between the Jin and the Zheng option may be not all that longer one from the other.
The main difference is that the delay of the Jin option also applies to Zheng Fu. Even if Zheng Fu is coming with us when the alarm is raised, that's still time when neither of them are there.
Cao Chun has just admitted that he doesn't have many agents with dreamwalking capabilities. That's why he is proposing someone a year younger than Ling Qi as the spotter.
Zheng's presence in the attack's vicinity beforehand would be crucial to both catch the perpetrators red-handed and to minimize the damage they can cause.
If only Jin Tae is present at the time of attack, that would give the saboteurs much more ample opportunity to escape before both Zheng Fu and Ling Qi manage to get away from the negotiations and arrive to the scene.
So if the objective of this vote is to ensure we catch the saboteurs now so they don't keep causing problems later, then the presence of another dreamwalking expert spotter (Zheng Fu) would be much more beneficial than the nebolous absence of a tipping off.
No tipping off isn't equivalent to ensured capture. That's a false statement. Instant action is just as important for the effective apprehension of the perpetrators and Zheng Fu is much more capable and experienced to fulfil that role.
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- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
[X] She would agree with Cao Chun to allow Jin Tae to spot. (Longer delay, No tip off)
If we're going to ever trust the MoI to do anything, this is where to do it. Against a clear enemy that's trying to kill Imperial citizens, fight openly against the local government's decisions, and plunge the area into further chaos and danger for those who cannot protect themselves.
In addition to that, I think that being as sure as possible that we catch the person doing this is important. It's a lot easier to make peace with someone after you each put a sword through the guy who wanted to screw with you both. In the real world, being caught doing this is probably the best way to ensure both sides do the opposite of whatever you were intending, just to spite you. This isn't the real world though, it's a setting where "us vs them" is a law of reality, and this is a chance to say "we both are an ingroup against this common enemy; we together are an us, that is the them, back to back and knives out". This may be one of the best arguments there is for peace, at least as long as the enemy is around.
If we're going to ever trust the MoI to do anything, this is where to do it. Against a clear enemy that's trying to kill Imperial citizens, fight openly against the local government's decisions, and plunge the area into further chaos and danger for those who cannot protect themselves.
In addition to that, I think that being as sure as possible that we catch the person doing this is important. It's a lot easier to make peace with someone after you each put a sword through the guy who wanted to screw with you both. In the real world, being caught doing this is probably the best way to ensure both sides do the opposite of whatever you were intending, just to spite you. This isn't the real world though, it's a setting where "us vs them" is a law of reality, and this is a chance to say "we both are an ingroup against this common enemy; we together are an us, that is the them, back to back and knives out". This may be one of the best arguments there is for peace, at least as long as the enemy is around.
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- Location
- Rivendell
[X] She would ask Zheng Fu to lay in wait. (Slight delay, less obvious tip off)
It's important to remember that this isn't likely to be the main agent behind the sabotage, just one of their more important pieces. Hampering and delaying this piece already causes a distraction to the main player which allows Shu Yue to act against the bigger fish. We are effectively the side dish here, not the main event.
That being the case the overall impact on the summit is likely measured by how successful the sabotage is going to be, which means we want to keep the delay to our response as low as possible to keep casualties to a minimum. This is not just an ethical consideration, but simply measuring the value of capturing a single piece against the overall damage being done. It's very possible that our antagonist would be satisfied losing one single agent in exchange for succeeding in causing a large incident.
It's important to remember that this isn't likely to be the main agent behind the sabotage, just one of their more important pieces. Hampering and delaying this piece already causes a distraction to the main player which allows Shu Yue to act against the bigger fish. We are effectively the side dish here, not the main event.
That being the case the overall impact on the summit is likely measured by how successful the sabotage is going to be, which means we want to keep the delay to our response as low as possible to keep casualties to a minimum. This is not just an ethical consideration, but simply measuring the value of capturing a single piece against the overall damage being done. It's very possible that our antagonist would be satisfied losing one single agent in exchange for succeeding in causing a large incident.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Also the part where Zheng Fu was trying out approaches on her until he found one that worked was sorta interesting. In theory it's deeply manipulative, but as a strategy, it kinda feels familiar/parallel to something, though I'm not sure about the specifics of what it reminds me of exactly.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The next incident is a two pronged attack. The culprits will cause an accident, and, while Cao Chun will be distracted with the "accident", they'll go and do some other thing at the actual meeting side itself.
However, we know ahead of time, so Cao Chun will be at the meeting and not fall for the distraction. He'll be looking out for the culprits at the actual negotiation table to determine who they are and the faction they belong to.
Now, we can prioritise the distraction, letting the enemy know that we're on to them (options 1 & 2). In that scenario, there is a high chance that they'll run off and Cao Chun can't catch them, since they're trying to be subtle. Since they'll be in the negotiation meetings too, they're probably important since they'll be able to hide among the high realms.
Or, we prioritise the other thing they're trying to hide from Cao Chun. If we prioritise that, there'll be a slight delay in arriving at the "accident", but they won't know we're on to them, so Cao Chun can spot them, identify the faction they're in, and disable the other thing that they want to do at the meeting.
Now, to me, the other thing looks waaay more important, since they're trying to hide it from a fifth realm cultivator specced for investigation, and since it's happening at the actual meeting sites.
If they get a tip off, they either won't do the other thing and spring it on us later (prioritising secrecy), when we may not be able to anticipate it, or they'll let go of all subtlety and do something at the literal negotiation tables, which can destroy the tentative peace we have here.
So, we can either prioritise the distraction, prioritise the other attack. Or, we can prioritise both, with weak support in each, and a chance for each to fail.
I think we should prioritise the other thing. Waiting a while for Tae's message is a risk for those who are caught up in the distraction, true, but it ultimately helps in ensuring that we'll catch the culprits and stop whatever they're trying to do at the negotiations.
We will be delayed on responding to the distraction, but we can still stop the "accident" while letting Cao Chun do his thing and catch the suspects.
Looking at this, I also suspect that Shu Yue may be looking for this attack too. If the suspect is spooked, we'll disrupt their plans.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] She would agree with Cao Chun to allow Jin Tae to spot. (Longer delay, No tip off)
Let the ministry do it's job. Also I doubt the additional delay will add much lethality to what they do - it's hard to imagine a case where it would be bad where having a definite person or persons to point at wouldn't be enough to assuage spirits/cultivators
Let the ministry do it's job. Also I doubt the additional delay will add much lethality to what they do - it's hard to imagine a case where it would be bad where having a definite person or persons to point at wouldn't be enough to assuage spirits/cultivators
[X] She would agree with Cao Chun to allow Jin Tae to spot. (Longer delay, No tip off)
We wished the city admin would listen to the expert when we were there.
Now the expert has an opinion and it doesn't give him extra power. We listen.
We wished the city admin would listen to the expert when we were there.
Now the expert has an opinion and it doesn't give him extra power. We listen.
Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but I think using Zheng Fu in the Dreaming will also be safer for our agent. Zheng Fu knows what he's doing. Jin Tae is not nearly so skilled. If we're dealing with hostile dreamwalkers, especially from the ith-ia, Jin Tae could be killed or captured because of his lower skills. That wouldn't go over well.
I'm willing to risk a bit of danger to have a stronger, more capable agent in place.
[X] She would ask Zheng Fu to lay in wait. (Slight delay, less obvious tip off)
I'm willing to risk a bit of danger to have a stronger, more capable agent in place.
[X] She would ask Zheng Fu to lay in wait. (Slight delay, less obvious tip off)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] She would ask Zheng Fu to lay in wait. (Slight delay, less obvious tip off)
Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
Guys, just let the MoI 5th realm agent in business mode do his thing while we do our best to learn a thing or two.
[X] She would agree with Cao Chun to allow Jin Tae to spot. (Longer delay, No tip off)
[X] She would agree with Cao Chun to allow Jin Tae to spot. (Longer delay, No tip off)
