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Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

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[x] [FED] We will propose a single Danubian Federation.
[x] [CON] We will expedite reconstruction within the Republic and certain appropriate areas.
[x] [REP] Henceforth, we will be the Union of Central European Republics.
 
spiritualatheist said:
There's not much time left, but I'd like to encourage people to support a single federation over two or three of them. One of the primary reasons for this war was to get access to the territory and industry we need to feasibly win a war against the Entente and Russia. To do that, we need our allies to be as strong as possible when the next war rolls around, and a single federation is straightforwardly the best way to do that.

While a single Danubian federation *may* be more unstable—and the option doesn't say it would be, just that it could—it has a much higher ceiling as an effective ally in the next war. Adding in more federations, on the other hand, is shortsighted. While they may be more stable in the short term, they're going to inevitably develop competing interests that we would have to balance diplomatically, and we are directly told that they'd be worse allies. If we want to win the next war, a single federation is the better choice.
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They'd be weaker, but you yourself don't know by how much. What we NEED is a secure southern border. You can't just decide that everything is going to go well for this new federation. The onus isn't entirely on us: it's also on the people of this new federation, and outside factors. I'm not willing to risk that. As stated in the post, they don't have that same spark or nucleus the Germans had. This would be an 'artificial' federation, not one imagined by it's own people.


edit: Besides, you say that there 'may' be instability, but what are you going to do if it DOES appear? Now THAT is shortsighted.
 
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[X] [FED] We will propose a single Danubian Federation.
[X] [CON] We will not modify our reconstruction plans at this time.
[X] [REP] Henceforth, we will be the Central European Republic.
 
01paradox01 said:
edit: Besides, you say that there 'may' be instability, but what are you going to do if it DOES appear? Now THAT is shortsighted.
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Help them. The next war isn't for at least 10-15 years so any instability should show up beforehand.

Meanwhile the problem with more federations is that they're weaker, which is a probably that will directly interfere in the next war.
 
01paradox01 said:
They'd be weaker, but you yourself don't know by how much. What we NEED is a secure southern border. You can't just decide that everything is going to go well for this new federation. The onus isn't entirely on us: it's also on the people of this new federation, and outside factors. I'm not willing to risk that. As stated in the post, they don't have that same spark or nucleus the Germans had. This would be an 'artificial' federation, not one imagined by it's own people.


edit: Besides, you say that there 'may' be instability, but what are you going to do if it DOES appear? Now THAT is shortsighted.
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Intentionally creating weakened nations to secure your own interests is, while realistic, also abhorrent. You will be the direct progenitor of your own problems down the road.
 
Physici said:
Help them. The next war isn't for at least 10-15 years so any instability should show up beforehand.

Meanwhile the problem with more federations is that they're weaker, which is a probably that will directly interfere in the next war.
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And in what form of help would that come in? Hmm? If there were mass protests against the government, would we march in and put them down? Or if it was in the government itself, would you have us march in and reorganize it? 'Helping' doesn't always work, and isn't always feasible. I think gambling on that is foolish.

Shadows said:
Intentionally creating weakened nations to secure your own interests is, while realistic, also abhorrent. You will be the direct progenitor of your own problems down the road.
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And I think creating a larger nation, not for any altruistic reason, but for better throwing them against the Entente is abhorrent too. Besides, I only consider that point a useful side effect of dividing them into more manageable republics.As for your statement about 'you will be the direct progenitor of your own problems', exactly what does that have to do with the current topic? You just stating that ominously without any further elaboration is irrelevant.
 
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[X] [FED] We will propose a Danubian Federation and an Illyrian Federation.
[X] [FED] We will propose a Danubian Republic, an Illyrian Republic, and a Transylvanian Republic.
[X] [CON] We will not modify our reconstruction plans at this time.
[X] [REP] Henceforth, we will be the Central European Republic.
 
[X] [FED] We will propose a single Danubian Federation.
[X] [CON] We will not modify our reconstruction plans at this time.
[X] [REP] We will not be making a change.
 
[X] [FED] We will propose a Danubian Federation and an Illyrian Federation.
[X] [FED] We will propose a Danubian Republic, an Illyrian Republic, and a Transylvanian Republic.
[X] [CON] We will not modify our reconstruction plans at this time.
[X] [REP] Henceforth, we will be the Central European Republic.
[X] [REP] We will not be making a change.
 
[X] [FED] We will propose a Danubian Federation and an Illyrian Federation.
[X] [FED] We will propose a Danubian Republic, an Illyrian Republic, and a Transylvanian Republic.
[X] [CON] We will not modify our reconstruction plans at this time.
[X] [REP] Henceforth, we will be the Central European Republic.
[X] [REP] We will not be making a change.
 
[X] [FED] We will propose a Danubian Federation and an Illyrian Federation.
[X] [CON] We will not modify our reconstruction plans at this time.
[X] [REP] Henceforth, we will be the Union of Central European Republics.

Editing my vote to try to balance the military strength of our allies and the possibility of internal divisions.
 
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[X] [FED] We will propose a single Danubian Federation.
[X] [CON] We will not modify our reconstruction plans at this time.
[X] [REP] Henceforth, we will be the Union of Central European Republics.
 
01paradox01 said:
And in what form of help would that come in? Hmm? If there were mass protests against the government, would we march in and put them down? Or if it was in the government itself, would you have us march in and reorganize it? 'Helping' doesn't always work, and isn't always feasible. I think gambling on that is foolish.



And I think creating a larger nation, not for any altruistic reason, but for better throwing them against the Entente is abhorrent too. Besides, I only consider that point a useful side effect of dividing them into more manageable republics.As for your statement about 'you will be the direct progenitor of your own problems', exactly what does that have to do with the current topic? You just stating that ominously without any further elaboration is irrelevant.
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It wasn't an ominous statement; it was a direct observation with centuries of precedent whereby the Balkans as we know them were created. They are not exactly bastions of stability today and that fault can be directly laid at the feet of commissions exactly like this one. And, manageable for who? Us? Or them?

Do not ever talk to me that way again.
 
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  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by Etranger on Jul 21, 2023 at 8:06 PM, finished with 184 posts and 124 votes.
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  • Voting
    • Adhoc vote count started by Woltaire on Jul 22, 2023 at 8:01 PM, finished with 184 posts and 124 votes.
    [fed] [con] [rep]
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    The Prague Commission, Part 2 (Runoff): 1900
  • Threadmarks
    • [] [FED] We will propose a single Danubian Federation.
    A single state comprising all the remaining former Habsburg territories and organized under the principles of National Personal Autonomy would be a bold experiment, as it lacks the German nucleus that makes the Republic possible and could prove to be a bit unstable. However, if it were to stabilize and rebuild, it could prove an ally on the same level as if not exceeding the value of Italy and Spain.


    [] [FED] We will propose a Danubian Federation and an Illyrian Federation.
    A pair of federations, one Danubian and one South Slavic, would likely prove to be steadier partners and easier to maintain overall. However, their competing desires and areas of friction would need to be managed, and they would be weaker collectively than a single regional federation.



    Runoff time. 24 hours to vote. No approval voting (obviously). Keep it civil and constructive. Avoid any personal remarks and negative interactions, please.
     
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    • [x] [FED] We will propose a single Danubian Federation.
     
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