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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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firefrog600 said:
I'd be a bit mad if dp only let us have modern tech if we chose advanced tech for our hell. Cause advanced is supposed to be like low tier cyberpunk as far as like biomods and cybernetic body parts and stuff you might see a century from now. Some of the stuff the wicked city has is what we should be looking at right?
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Considering the current winning by a landslide build has advanced tech that shouldn't be a problem. So we will get all the standard modern tech as well has magi tech and super tech.

Never need to buy any dots in medicine because we can just drop people off at a hospital better than anything on earth and most of the never-never.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Yeah, but rep only matters in so far as you're using it. Lydia doesn't do much with the community.
I also wouldn't call Molly a social exalt, most of her abilities there are excellency related.
By exp she's more combat then anything, but by most crucial abilities she more built for information games than anything else.
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Yes she is.

Molly is Appearance 2, Cha/Man 3. Empathy 5, Etiquette 5, Intimidation 4, Leadership 3.
All of those are Key Abilities, which has salutary effects on her ability to botch.
Of her eight Key Abilities, FOUR are Social.

The only social abilities that arent Key are Performance and Expression.
And Im not even counting how she rolls with CoDs, given Demonic Primacy.

So yeah, social Exalt. Craft/Social, to be exact.
BronzeTongue said:
On the topic of ghouls, it might be interesting to talk to the various ghoul powers at some point.

Not super high priority, but they do exist and probably have some nice resources for our minions.
The main things being stuff like lore/skill training for their unique magical traditions and mundane things like doctors who actually understand what the hell is going on with their biology.

For example, suppose a ghoul does get cancer; how does regen affect chemotherapy?
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There arent ghoul powers that I know of in the real world.

Ghoul clans exist, but most of them are either independents who keep to themselves or hire out services to other players.
The NeverNever is terra incognita; the uberghouls, and the attack on Camp Kaboom suggests there is something there, but no elaboration so far.

Other than that?
I know Nicky's baby mama Polonessa Lartessa has ghouls in her employ as of Skin Game, and they are martial arts and firearms trained. No magical traditions Im aware of.

No idea about their medical needs, if any.

BronzeTongue said:
We know from Mac's place that it's possible to shape something in an entirely mundane way that influences magic anyway. He uses the layout and number of the support pillars to make it harder for radiant magic build up/minor talent slap fights to get out of hand.

Might be worth looking into the possibility of doing something like this to the vehicle itself via Occult excellency instead of "just" setting them up to laser etch wards.

Shape the thing from the ground up so that it's as "low profile" as possible from a magical interaction perspective, like the artificially low radar cross section of stealth aircraft.
Not immune, but harder to effect than it should have any right to be.
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Yeah, thats a good idea. And something Molly should be able to manage with Occult 5 and an Occult Excellency.
Admittedly, I'm assuming that once Molly is done doing the actual construction, Gard and the other Valkyries, maybe even Odin himself, will layer on aftermarket magical wards and protections.

fictionfan said:
Two things. One we can actually fly up to Satellites to fix them up. Second if they are in range of HMP then they are also in range of MHM.
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Doesnt matter.
We do not particularly want to be caught on camera doing maintenance work on other people's satellites. Not to mention that damaged satellites suddenly reactivating and getting fixed draws all the attention. That kinda obviates the whole point of secret snoopers in other people's satellites.

Using MHM to dropping satellites into the atmosphere is not exactly safe for the poor SOBs living in the potential flight path.
firefrog600 said:
I'm thinking of having an entire ghoul clan uju so yes its needed. I'm not thinking about like 50 ghouls max I'm thinking like over a thousand someday. Maybe even straight up coopting some of the clans in the united states if we can. Asides a constantly replenishing food source is good strategically at times. I know that some wyld fae would sell their souls (metaphorically) for a respawning pizza box.

Asides we can use our wishes for simple practical things too its not like we're likely to ever send someone to hell for it. Unless we can send them to our hell in which case its probably a good deal in all honesty.
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Like I said? Not necessary.
Ghoul clans exist in the setting and manage to keep their members fed without literally setting-breaking magic.
Money is its own power, and given the opportunity, support and training, ghouls can be self-supporting.

Besides, why do you want a thousand ghouls? What for?
 
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uju32 said:
You cant.Molly can.
These are people to her, not munitions, and there are ethical/moral standards to be met.

Clippy has explicitly said that an electronic item without power is basically sensory deprivation for a cyberdevil.
If she cant retrieve her cyberdevils in the event that, say, a satellite malfunction knocks a satellite offline, she isnt going to do it.
Thats just simply IC ethics over personal convenience.

And the current ruling is that you need to either destroy the item, or use Ancient Sorcery to exorcise them.
Neither is a feasible option.
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Well for one satellites run for years at a time, so the chance of losing power is low, I get that supernatural have a lot of pull but shutting down multiple million dollar Strategic assets is at least a full order of magnitude, above anything we have seen. Two Mind Hand Manipulation + a decent telescope and Molly could destroy every single satellite the whole several thousand + satellites in the world, in a few hours.
 
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uju32 said:
Doesnt matter.
We do not particularly want to be caught on camera doing maintenance work on other people's satellites. Not to mention that damaged satellites suddenly reactivating and getting fixed draws all the attention. That kinda obviates the whole point of secret snoopers in other people's satellites.

Using MHM to dropping satellites into the atmosphere is not exactly safe for the poor SOBs living in the potential flight path.
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I feels like you have decided that you don't want to do it and are coming up with reasons not to after the fact. The objections you just raised have fairly easy counters or ways to get around them and I am fairly sure that you can see them as well*. So is the actual problem that you don't want us to control Satilites for narrative reasons? Or just that you have other things that you feel the AP is better used for and want to rubbish this option? Something else?

*At first this post was about that, but then realized it was off topic.
 
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uju32 said:
Yes she is.

Molly is Appearance 2, Cha/Man 3. Empathy 5, Etiquette 5, Intimidation 4, Leadership 3.
All of those are Key Abilities, which has salutary effects on her ability to botch.
Of her eight Key Abilities, FOUR are Social.

The only social abilities that arent Key are Performance and Expression.
And Im not even counting how she rolls with CoDs, given Demonic Primacy.

So yeah, social Exalt. Craft/Social, to be exact.

There arent ghoul powers that I know of in the real world.

Ghoul clans exist, but most of them are either independents who keep to themselves or hire out services to other players.
The NeverNever is terra incognita; the uberghouls, and the attack on Camp Kaboom suggests there is something there, but no elaboration so far.

Other than that?
I know Nicky's baby mama Polonessa Lartessa has ghouls in her employ as of Skin Game, and they are martial arts and firearms trained. No magical traditions Im aware of.

No idea about their medical needs, if any.


Yeah, thats a good idea. And something Molly should be able to manage with Occult 5 and an Occult Excellency.
Admittedly, I'm assuming that once Molly is done doing the actual construction, Gard and the other Valkyries, maybe even Odin himself, will layer on aftermarket magical wards and protections.


Doesnt matter.
We do not particularly want to be caught on camera doing maintenance work on other people's satellites. Not to mention that damaged satellites suddenly reactivating and getting fixed draws all the attention. That kinda obviates the whole point of secret snoopers in other people's satellites.

Using MHM to dropping satellites into the atmosphere is not exactly safe for the poor SOBs living in the potential flight path.

Like I said? Not necessary.
Ghoul clans exist in the setting and manage to keep their members fed without literally setting-breaking magic.
Money is its own power, and given the opportunity, support and training, ghouls can be self-supporting.

Besides, why do you want a thousand ghouls? What for?
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So they don't go eating people and to have an army? Also I dunno where they go when they die and I'm worried its some hell and I'd feel bad if we did nothing about that. Also I'm not sure ghoul clans feed their members well fairly sure they likely have plenty of malnourished members and stuff. Also when they say power I doubt they mean like a faction so much as hyperpowerful gangs really.

Also why are you so against using wishes for respawning food? Its a resource and a good one? I doubt all clan members are well fed and why would we want to deal with the logistics of feeding them? Once we get wishes thats gonna come out regardless and the wishes aren't bullshit reality warping kinds so why not?
 
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uju32 said:
Doesnt matter.
We do not particularly want to be caught on camera doing maintenance work on other people's satellites. Not to mention that damaged satellites suddenly reactivating and getting fixed draws all the attention. That kinda obviates the whole point of secret snoopers in other people's satellites.

Using MHM to dropping satellites into the atmosphere is not exactly safe for the poor SOBs living in the potential flight path.
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I want to choose both information options, either a cyberdevil spy network for normal affairs or a small wldy fae network for purely supernatural news (which DP has confirmed we can do). But as many want the next turn to focus on dealing with the Order I'll resign myself to just choosing cyberdevil (who will be immediately useful), for now.

Why would we try to do maintenance if it's so dangerous? If one of the satellites has a problem we can just use MHM to destroy it completely, recovering our servant. It's just going to pass off as a catastrophic malfunction or a micrometorite accident or something.

fictionfan said:
I feels like you have decided that you don't want to do it and are coming up with reasons not to after the fact. The objections you just raised have fairly easy counters or ways to get around them and I am fairly sure that you can see them as well*. So is the actual problem that you don't want us to control Satilites for narrative reasons? Or just that you have other things that you feel the AP is better used for and want to rubbish this option? Something else?

*At first this post was about that, but then realized it was off topic.
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I have to agree with him on how your posts are looking Uju.
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
Well for one satellites run for years at a time, so the chance of losing power is low, I get that supernatural have a lot of pull but shutting down multiple million dollar Strategic assets is at least a full order of magnitude, above anything we have seen. Two Mind Hand Manipulation + a decent telescope and Molly could destroy every single satellite the whole several thousand + satellites in the world, in a few hours.
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Low = Nil. Parts fail, accidents happen. And running for years still means that the satellite is going to die, and Molly has no way of recalling a minion if she puts them there.Pay attention to who the PC we're playing is. Stabby McMurderface might not care about what happens to their minions. Molly does.


Point of correction:
Its human technology. Someone who really wanted to could use an antitech spell to kill satellites in orbit.
Just like a scaled up version of the spell that Dresden and the Fae use to disable technology on Earth.
Not to mention when Ebenezar McCoy dropped a satellite out of orbit in Death Masks.

fictionfan said:
I feels like you have decided that you don't want to do it and are coming up with reasons not to after the fact. The objections you just raised have fairly easy counters or ways to get around them and I am fairly sure that you can see them as well*. So is the actual problem that you don't want us to control Satilites for narrative reasons? Or just that you have other things that you feel the AP is better used for and want to rubbish this option?

*At first this post was about that, but then realized it was off topic.
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I am pretty sure I was the first person to suggest putting cyberdevils on satellites when I realized HMP was line of sight.
I know I suggested using the 20 inch telescope at Observatory to do it.
If I had other reasons, Id say so.

I changed my mind because the QM just ruled that we cant recall them at will if necessary. And we cant use HMP to spend Essence to bring them back either. That is the sort of information that affects our PC's decisionmaking IC; Molly Carpenter as characterized is not going to use her cyberdevils as throwaway munitions.

Suggest a reasonable way for Molly to do so without putting what are her people at the end of a long supply line that she cant reach without literally heroic levels of intervention.

The altitudes of most satellites are at LEO, which is 160km to 2000km above sea level.
Middle Earth Orbit is even higher.
Those are nontrivial travel distances, given the number of cameras in orbit or on the ground.
 
uju32 said:
I am pretty sure I was the first person to suggest putting cyberdevils on satellites when I realized HMP was line of sight.
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No that was me before then when I realized we could fly up there.*

Also mind hand manipulation doesn't care about distance just line of sight*. So you should be feel glad that we don't have to worry about stranding our cyber devils.

*Although you might not have paid any attention to those posts I remember feeling a little put out when you brought up the idea later like it was something new. But I might be misremembering after rereading this thread so many times.

**likely don't even need a telescope with ATB.
 
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If a satellites fails Molly can just use MMM to tear it apart, crush it into a ball of ruble, throw into the sun etc. We are 100% able to retrieve a cyber devil if the satellite fails. And the Anti tech spells fail because of the cyber demon means it no longer is able to be disabled, we have had a cyber devil playing translator for Mouse for months in Dresden's apartment the guy that regularly destroys tech just by being near it.
 
Azais said:
I want to choose both information options, either a cyberdevil spy network for normal affairs or a small wldy fae network for purely supernatural news (which DP has confirmed we can do). But as many want the next turn to focus on dealing with the Order I'll resign myself to just choosing cyberdevil (who will be immediately useful), for now.

Why would we try to do maintenance if it's so dangerous? If one of the satellites has a problem we can just use MHM to destroy it completely, recovering our servant. It's just going to pass off as a catastrophic malfunction or a micrometorite accident or something.


I have to agree with him on how your posts are looking Uju.
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1) I didnt suggest doing maintenance in orbit. Earth-Destroyer did.
I pointed out reasons why doing it was a Bad Idea.

2) Deorbiting satellites has never been easy or predictable; their mass and form factor can make their reentry profile unpredictable, even for satellites designed to reenter.
You can kill people. Or contaminate landmasses, assuming its one of those satellites with a nuclear power plant.

There's a reason why so many satellites are simply parked in orbit instead of being deorbited when they die.
And Im going to vehemently object to anyone suggesting we should destroy satellites in orbit, increasing space debris and the risk of a Kessler cascade.
 
fictionfan said:
No that was me before then when I realized we could fly up there.*
Also mind hand manipulation doesn't care about distance just line of sight*. So you should be feel glad that we don't have to worry about stranding our cyber devils.

*Although you might not have paid any attention to those posts I remember feeling a little put out when you brought up the idea later like it was something new. But I might be misremembering after rereading this thread so many times.

**likely don't even need a telescope with ATB.
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I dont have the time to go back and check right now. So I'll take your word for it.

See my previous post about the reentry profile of satellites and how they reenter and break up unpredictably.
Ask the Canadians about the Soviet spy satellite Kosmos 954 scattering radioactive material across Canada from Great Slave Lake to Bear Lake.

And thats not even counting the risks in attempting to steer a satellite back to Earth without running into other satellites up there.
This shit isnt easy or simple.
 
Winning Vote
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Arc 8 Post 38: A Dare at Crossing Dark
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    • A Dare at Crossing Dark ​

    14th of November 2006 A.D.

    Dixie Square Mall was the kind of place parents warned their children away from and unlike many other targets of parental disapproval you cannot imagine many kids would disagree with it. Abandoned for longer than you have been alive, a hulking mass raised of crumbling brick and cracking concrete, rusted steel peering though the gaps like the bones of a corpse left too long in the sun. The wind and rain had worn away most of the storefronts, letters strewn along its walkways, a jumbled epitaph. Here and there by quirks of architecture and geometry the walls look almost pristine, if it were not for the graffiti of generations spilled out across them, clashing contradicting proclamations that future archeologists might mistake for a grand temple complex. In the middle of an otherwise unremarkable stretch of wall there is an arch painted in vivid reds and greens proclaiming it Santa's Workshop, the signs of whichever company had put it here are gone and by some happenstance the only graffiti in sight is a dark winged bird, perhaps a raven.

    For all the signs are obvious when looking for them you suspect you would have missed them entirely in passing, if it had not been for the pair of women standing on either side of the arch. They have the look of sisters maybe even twins. At first glance one would guess 'Latina' but when the one on the left speaks the accent behind her words is definitely not Spanish, or any language you have ever heard spoken before. "I am Marzhan this is my sister Alina and we will be your guides to Santa's Workshop and beyond today. Please keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle at all times."

    Piotr grows a little more more stone faced, but he does not argue, whether because it is not his place to argue with the Choosers of the Slain or as seems more likely from that smile, because it would only encourage them to say even more outrageous things, you are not sure. The journey is going to be fun you bet.

    The pair move in concert, opening the painted door onto a much different vista, a pair of rune carved standing stones, a lintel set between then, framing the a distant mountain set against a darkening sky. As the four of you step through a raven caws impatiently and spreads its dark wings wide, heading towards the mountain.


    "Don't mind him," Alina offers in a conspiratorial whisper. "He gets huffy when he has to lead people who have no chance of dying which means no chance of plucking out their eyes for a snack."

    "He wouldn't actually..." you start, but the other sister shakes her head.

    "Lead them astray, of course not, but if they should happen to die to some peril of the Ways it would be a shame to let the eyes and the last light in them go to waste."

    That... should probably not sound as reasonable as it does, but you distract yourself looking around. This side of the veil you are standing at a crossroad surrounded rotten rail fences and here and there peeking from among the nettles, poison ivy and other things that gardener's hand has never touched the foundations of houses. This place had been a market town long ago. Strange to think that any of the fey and spirits of this impossible realm would live in such mundane homes, much less that they could have been killed or driven off.

    Catching your eye Piotr explains. "This used to be a village, regular mortal folk from what would be Bavaria today, fell in one night at the dark of the moon, stayed too long and had to linger. Did alright for themselves for a while, more than most can boast."

    He is obviously not willing to explain what got them in the end or how the One Eye gained a foothold in the ruins.

    "Where to next?" you ask instead.

    "See that cave halfway up the mountain," Marzhan points, wings so black they seem to shimmer with green and blue and purple unfurling from her shoulders as they do her sister's. "Race you there!"

    With that they are off in a gust of cold wind. Before you can decide whether to follow Piotr whistles and a black coach, saved from looking like a hearse only by the blood red curtains rolls silently up the road, silently and much faster than any mortal conveyance aught to be. Definitely not faster than a valkyrie in flight.

    A race and a chance to win a bit more fame among the ranks of Odin's servants or a ride in the coach and a chance to ask some questions about how Monoc operates on the mundane side and on the spooky.

    What do you do?

    [] Try to race the sisters
    -[] Write in charms

    [] Take the coach
    -[] Write in any questions you have for Piotr

    [] Write in

    OOC: And here we are in the realms of dreams and nightmares once more.
     
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    • I don't suppose we could MHM a set of tools up into orbit then use them and MHM to repurpose derelict satellites into something interesting, like a KKV launcher or something similar?
     
    You realize we can push away from the planet, as well as pull down towards it right. If anything Molly spending a night would vastly reduce garage in space. And again who cares about renter Molly can just crush a satellite down like a trash compactor into a solid cube if she want to.
     
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    uju32 said:
    See my previous post about the reentry profile of satellites and how they reenter and break up unpredictably.
    Ask the Canadians about the Soviet spy satellite Kosmos 954 scattering radioactive material across Canada from Great Slave Lake to Bear Lake.

    And thats not even counting the risks in attempting to steer a satellite back to Earth without running into other satellites up there.
    This shit isnt easy or simple.
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    This is exactly what I am talking about these objections are trivial to solve. Mind hand manipulation solves all these problems we aren't having to send up a rocket to hit a fast moving satellite and hoping that our math is right and that it doesn't break in unexpected ways. We can just grab the whole sat and move it to a place of our choice and if it breaks somehow we can do the same thing with all the pieces.

    As for the nuke scare mongering the most powerful reactor in space ever produced 10 kilowatts*.

    *About 10 microwave ovens worth.
     
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    uju32 said:
    Point of correction:
    Its human technology. Someone who really wanted to could use an antitech spell to kill satellites in orbit.
    Just like a scaled up version of the spell that Dresden and the Fae use to disable technology on Earth.
    Not to mention when Ebenezar McCoy dropped a satellite out of orbit in Death Masks.
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    Demon-possesed tech is immune to techbane, even weaponized.
    And a completly demolished sattelite releases the demon, as would a destroyed phone.
     
    Goldfish said:
    I don't suppose we could MHM a set of tools up into orbit then use them and MHM to repurpose derelict satellites into something interesting, like a KKV launcher or something similar?
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    I am going to say that trying to work through a telescope at that distance would come with some major maluses, this is a bit more complicated then just tagging a satellite with a demon You do have a charm that can protect you from hard vacuum for a while and enough skill to build a space suit
     
    [X] Try to race the sisters
    -[X] By Rage recast flight
    -[X] Use windborne stride as an ace in the hole. Or to keep up with them if they are that fast.
     
    Acolyte said:
    If they can cast orbital tech bane they can also cast orbital spirit binding or banishment.
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    Banishment- Great, they automatically go back to our anima, ready to be summoned again.

    Binding- That would go against the loyalty to us guaranteed by the charm of our exaltation, and in that fight I bet on the weapon of murdering primordials of past ages.
     
    zxzx24 said:
    -[X] Use windborne stride as an ace in the hole. Or to keep up with them if they are that fast.
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    Wind-borne stride activates automatically speeding us up every minute we run to a max of 10x. We can make that happen faster by spending a mote, but if we are racing and speeding up as we go along then that seems like a fairly good ramp up curve.
     
    Earth-Destroyer said:
    You realize we can push away from the planet, as well as pull down towards it right. If anything Molly spend a night would vastly reduce garage in space. And again who cares about renter Molly can just crush a satellite down like a trash compactor into a solid cube if she want to.
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    There are 25,000 discrete pieces of space junk being tracked by the US Space Surveillance Network, which includes 3,000 derelict satellites. And thats in addition to the thousands of actual working satellites up there.

    This is the orbital equivalent of an Interstate with lots of cars driving at >75mph; you cant just move stuff willy nilly without breaking stuff. Potentially a lot of very important stuff that human civilization actually depends on, from GPS to comm sats.
    You are being quite cavalier about this shit.

    Not to mention that doing it the way you suggest would tell everyone with occult eyes that we have eyes up there.
    Which kinda detracts from the whole secret spies thing.

    If we could simply use HMP to recall cyberdevils, I dont think that Molly would have an IC issue
    Which means I would have no issue. But when the only options appear to be either Ancient Sorcery or risking either uncontrolled reentry or a Kessler cascade by playing bumper cars with satellites, its a pass.



    No, Molly cannot arbitarily compact satellites down.
    MHM does not work that way as far as I can tell from the fluff or mechanics.
     
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