Remove ads

Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

Reader mode
[X] Dispense Liberation, Eliminate Hapsburg (-1 Leverage)
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[x] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control.
-[x] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders.
-[x] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned.
-[x] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations.
-[x] The other League states shall not be punished.

[X] Plan The Pink Map (Sabotaged)
-[X] We will sabotage the talks.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
We're not overstretched, relatively speaking. We've managed to whittle the League down to numerical parity in the field, and whatever strain our war economy is showing is nothing compared to theirs - we're sitting on around half of Russia's prewar industry and functionally all of Austria's.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Army wise we're still doing well, though I don't really see what gains we're going to make worth another round of war without bleeding a lot. But we also have to consider our capacity to integrate new states into our system.
 
[X] Plan: Engineered Continuation of War
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland shall remain under Allied control. (-2)
-[X] The Alliance shall additionally take Slovakia and Hungary.(-4)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria must pay severe reparations. (-2)
-[X] The other League states shall not be punished. (0)
[X] Plan: The Red Map
-[X] We will sabotage the talks.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control.
-[X] The Alliance shall additionally take Slovakia and Hungary.
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be placed under Alliance control.
-[X] Russia and Austria must pay severe reparations.
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized
 
Nyvis said:
Army wise we're still doing well, though I don't really see what gains we're going to make worth another round of war without bleeding a lot. But we also have to consider our capacity to integrate new states into our system.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think we can get away with some relatively modest(in terms of blood spent for territory captured) gains up the Baltic with one more campaign season. Once we've taken the last of the Baltic's industry from Russia we can bring them to the table on our own terms.
 
TheArcanist said:
I think we can get away with some relatively modest(in terms of blood spent for territory captured) gains up the Baltic with one more campaign season. Once we've taken the last of the Baltic's industry from Russia we can bring them to the table on our own terms.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Are we really going back to the war over just the Baltics, with Russia having had half a year to rest and receive foreign supplies? I could have seen an argument when refusing the conference but now that we're here and can set already attractive terms, we should take our win and move to rebuilding our gains.
 
Nyvis said:
Are we really going back to the war over just the Baltics, with Russia having had half a year to rest and receive foreign supplies? I could have seen an argument when refusing the conference but now that we're here and can set already attractive terms, we should take our win and move to rebuilding our gains.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Its pretty clear people hope to push Russia towards revolution which is the kind of gamble that is all advised on so many levels.
 
Anchises said:
Its pretty clear people hope to push Russia towards revolution which is the kind of gamble that is all advised on so many levels.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And what, keep marching for Moscow when that revolution need saving? Because letting them die if they pick a fight they're not ready for would be grossly irresponsible.

We have one army on our border with France. Ending Russia is an Entente red line. We aren't ready for this.
 
Nyvis said:
Are we really going back to the war over just the Baltics, with Russia having had half a year to rest and receive foreign supplies? I could have seen an argument when refusing the conference but now that we're here and can set already attractive terms, we should take our win and move to rebuilding our gains.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Baltic states contain a not-insignificant chunk of the remainder of Russian industry. If we genuinely want to make sure that a reactionary Russian state will not be a threat in the medium term it's not a crazy thing to propose.

And, like, we'll also have six months to stockpile shells and reorganize our troops. I doubt the Russians have much remaining domestic industry or logistics to make more effective use of that time to prepare than we can.
 
TheArcanist said:
The Baltic states contain a not-insignificant chunk of the remainder of Russian industry. If we genuinely want to make sure that a reactionary Russian state will not be a threat in the medium term it's not a crazy thing to propose.

And, like, we'll also have six months to stockpile shells and reorganize our troops. I doubt the Russians have much remaining domestic industry or logistics to make more effective use of that time to prepare than we can.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Russians don't need domestic industry when Britain is perfectly willing to sell them all the guns they could want.
 
TheArcanist said:
The Baltic states contain a not-insignificant chunk of the remainder of Russian industry. If we genuinely want to make sure that a reactionary Russian state will not be a threat in the medium term it's not a crazy thing to propose.

And, like, we'll also have six months to stockpile shells and reorganize our troops. I doubt the Russians have much remaining domestic industry or logistics to make more effective use of that time to prepare than we can.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Entente is going to ramp up support to Russia if we're playing hardball. That's their industrial capacity.

I do get that the Baltics have worth. But we can already get Lithuania and the amount of effort and risk to get the rest doesn't seem to match the gains.
 
Nyvis said:
The Entente is going to ramp up support to Russia if we're playing hardball. That's their industrial capacity.

I do get that the Baltics have worth. But we can already get Lithuania and the amount of effort and risk to get the rest doesn't seem to match the gains.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Think ahead to the future. Even British and French industry has hard limits. In a hypothetical future conflict with the Entente, every gun they send to Russia is a gun they aren't using to defend the French front. We can strain their logistical and industrial capacity by badly hobbling the Russians now.
 
TheArcanist said:
Think ahead to the future. Even British and French industry has hard limits. In a hypothetical future conflict with the Entente, every gun they send to Russia is a gun they aren't using to defend the French front. We can strain their logistical and industrial capacity by badly hobbling the Russians now.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Russian industry is already going to have to be effectively rebuilt by the Entente because so much of it was in Poland and Prussia. The Baltics aren't going to make that much of a difference. Either they're already going to be hobbled going forward or the Entente can spend the decades before the next war offering more loans that they would otherwise.
 
Nyvis said:
And what, keep marching for Moscow when that revolution need saving? Because letting them die if they pick a fight they're not ready for would be grossly irresponsible.

We have one army on our border with France. Ending Russia is an Entente red line. We aren't ready for this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I made that argument quite often yeah. This is purely destructive, not constructive, foreign policy. An imploding Russia would be a disaster on many levels.

Even if one argue this is about securing a deeper hold on the Balkans its bad. We sure as hell don't have the manpower to occupy and hold all of the former Austrian Empire, guard our borders and intervene in a Russian Revolution (where all sides might be hostile to us anyway).


Also the butcher's bill for continuing this war is going to be immense. There very clearly isn't a single offensive we can just do to defeat Russia. People's calculus about Russia just dropping out the moment we want to is uh...risky to say at least.

edit: Not to mention people are playing very fast and loose with Entente red lines.
 
Last edited:
TheArcanist said:
Think ahead to the future. Even British and French industry has hard limits. In a hypothetical future conflict with the Entente, every gun they send to Russia is a gun they aren't using to defend the French front. We can strain their logistical and industrial capacity by badly hobbling the Russians now.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We've already badly hobbled the Russians. Spending one more year at war for the Baltics and having to mop up the Balkans manually rather than get them in the peace deal is not going to put us in a better position for the next showdown.
 
I don't want to hobble Russia I want to end the Tsardom. That was my aim going into the war and it is still my aim now
 
Anchises said:
Even if one argue this is about securing a deeper hold if the Balkans its bad. We sure as hell don't have the manpower to occupy and hold all of the former Austrian Empire, guard our borders and intervene in a Russian Revolution (where all sides might be hostile to us anyway).


Also the butcher's bill for continuing this war is going to be immense. There very clearly isn't one offensive we can do to defeat Russia. People's calculus about Russia just dropping out the moment we want to is uh...risky to say at least.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is a really good point. Any kind of Russian state collapse is going to be actively bad for us at this point. Not only will it involve untold human misery but what emerges in the aftermath is incredibly unlikely to be friendly to us, let alone Radical or Socialist.

And if we bleed white for it, we lose the ability to effectively reconstruct the territory we have secured. Controlling Poland and the Austrian Empire doesn't do us any good if we can't reconstruct those areas for use in the next war.

We should also consider our debt. Every year we spend fighting this war we are bleeding treasure, and we're going to need that treasure going forward.
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan for Domestic Consumption

Mostly switching because I've been convinced that dealing with the Bulgarian-Romanian mess is gonna be a headache that we're better staying out off.
 
[X] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top