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Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

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[x] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)
- [x] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
- [x] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
- [x] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
- [x] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
- [x] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
- [x] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)
 
What's the rationale behind the Leverage - 3 plans? Won't they result in problematic international relations at a time where we are already straining them?
 
Shard said:
What's the rationale behind the Leverage - 3 plans? Won't they result in problematic international relations at a time where we are already straining them?
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Some people want to continue the war. I say we should quit while we are ahead and not risk the Entente joining in while we are overstretched already.
 
Shard said:
What's the rationale behind the Leverage - 3 plans? Won't they result in problematic international relations at a time where we are already straining them?
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Eliminating the risk of the League accepting the plans is, to their proponents, worth the minor relations hit from stepping a toe over the line.
 
Parzival said:
Some people want to continue the war. I say we should quit while we are ahead and not risk the Entente joining in while we are overstretched already.
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We're not overstretched, relatively speaking. We've managed to whittle the League down to numerical parity in the field, and whatever strain our war economy is showing is nothing compared to theirs - we're sitting on around half of Russia's prewar industry and functionally all of Austria's.
 
It's not so much the issue of being overstretched as it is the Entente stabbing us while we're tired that we really should be concerned about.

[X] Plan for Domestic Consumption
 
[X] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)
 
Parzival said:
Some people want to continue the war. I say we should quit while we are ahead and not risk the Entente joining in while we are overstretched already.
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I do think it's acceptable to quit now before we overstretch (it's why I voted for @Driven by Apathy 's plan), but IMO we still have probably 1-2 turns before we start to hit that point and by then we could have notably more leverage over the relevant former Russian and former Quadruple Monarchy territories (with some spoiler to both sides from potential Serbian and Greek involvement). It's the post-war, harder multi-decade reconstruction that's more of a concern. If League counter-offer is unacceptable, or they outright reject a non-auto reject proposal, then edit: continuing the war becomes a necessity.

Shard said:
It's not so much the issue of being overstretched as it is the Entente stabbing us while we're tired that we really should be concerned about.
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I don't think the Entente will do that actually, they'll more likely send an ultimatum forcing us to stop instead. Don't have to spend their citizens' lives, they can just threaten and get what they want.

Anyways, based on how the peace conference system works, a counter-offer or even rejection are the likely possibilities due to the plan's -2 leverage position. Reminder that anything above -3 and below 1 is in this sliding scale of likelihood for rejection, counter-offer, or acceptance. (Driven by Apathy's plan, being -1, is also in this grey area). I'll also note that even if a counter-offer materialized for the plan you're voting for (@Zimmerwald1915 's plan btw), it's not unlikely that the terms would be unacceptable to most of SoN II's playerbase.
 
I see no reason at all to make peace. The League is in no position to offer terms, and we are in every position to finish them off so we can get that sweet sweet unconditional surrender
 
[] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)
[X] Plan for Domestic Consumption

On the one hand, I can understand not wanting to get involved in redrawing Bulgaria and Romania.
On the other hand, YOINK!
 
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Ultrackius said:
I see no reason at all to make peace. The League is in no position to offer terms, and we are in every position to finish them off so we can get that sweet sweet unconditional surrender
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Russia isn't going to just roll over. Any invasion pushing into Ukraine, Belarus, and the Russian heartland would be doomed due to logistics difficulties. If we signal that we mean to destroy Russia as a great power then there won't be any victory there. I understand if people won't go with my proposed lenient peace but at least choosing the option that can get us into negotiations is the better choice. We are running out of territory to advance into. Those helpful Polish partisans will turn into very damaging Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarussian partisans soon.
 
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Fingon888 said:
Russia isn't going to just roll over. Any invasion pushing into Ukraine, Belarus, and the Russian heartland would be doomed due to logistics difficulties. If we signal that we mean to destroy Russia as a great power then there won't be any victory there. I understand if people won't go with my proposed lenient peace but at least choosing the option that can get us into negotiations is the better choice. We are running out of territory to advance into. Those helpful Polish partisans will turn into very damaging Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarussian partisans soon.
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Who says we need to push deep? Russia is on the verge of civil war, if we threaten to take Petersburg I give even odds it revolts, from there we just have to aid the revolutionaries against a nonexistent Russian army
 
We don't need to dig deep into Belarus we can just crawl up the Baltics till the capital is in sight, maybe push Ukraine a bit, and Russia will destroy itself
 
[X] Plan: Engineered Continuation of War
[X] Plan: The Pink Map (Sabotaged)
[X] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)
 
[X] Dispense Liberation, Eliminate Hapsburg (-1 Leverage)
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[x] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control.
-[x] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders.
-[x] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned.
-[x] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations.
-[x] The other League states shall not be punished.

[X] Plan The Pink Map (Sabotaged)
-[X] We will sabotage the talks.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)

[X] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)
 
What if they Accept? I mean its unlikely but what if they see the way things are going and decide to accept the propsal we hand them?

Btw is "The Springtime Of Nations I" quest really as bad as i keep hearing?
 
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Drieder said:
What if they Accept? I mean its unlikely but what if they see the way things are going and decide to accept the propsal we hand them?

Btw is "The Springtime Of Nations I" quest really as bad as i keep hearing?
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If they accept then they accept, good enough.
As for SON1, I wasn't there but it looks like it turned into PvP and tempers ran high, so yeah.
 
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