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Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

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[X] Plan: Habsburgs Delenda Est
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov (Red).
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Green).
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
[X] Plan: Habsburgs Delenda Est
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov (Red).
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Green).
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
[X] Plan: Case Vigo
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov.
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Brno.
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

[X] Plan: Tightening the Noose
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov (Red).
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Brno (Gold).
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to put pressure on the League.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.
 
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[X] Plan: Case Vigo
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov.
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Brno.
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

Vigo increases front we can use to attack Vienna, and moves us closer to Hungary.
 
[X] Plan: Habsburgs Delenda Est
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov (Red).
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Green).
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
[X] Plan: Case Vigo
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov.
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Brno.
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.

[X] Plan: Tightening the Noose
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov (Red).
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Brno (Gold).
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to put pressure on the League.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.
 
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[X] Plan: Habsburgs Delenda Est
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov (Red).
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Vienna (Green).
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
[X] Plan: Case Vigo
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov.
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Brno.
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
[X] Plan: Tightening the Noose
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov (Red).
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Brno (Gold).
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to put pressure on the League.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to maintain the situation in the Mediterranean.
 
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I don't see why people wouldn't want to make it easier to storm Vienna. Like Vigo basically allows us to outflank Viena's defenses and cuts the links between Russia and Austria. That way it will be much easier to storm a weakened Vienna from two sides

I just don't understand why we wouldn't try to conserve our manpower to the best of our ability.
 
Longer war = More manpower losses, Summer is better season for a combined strike on Austria from all sides
 
Anchises said:
I disagree because with the forces we have available rn we are not going to conquer Vienna. So we pick the hardest possible operation in Austria for no real reason.
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Ah, well, that's a different point, and I disagree that after all our success and having already flanked Vienna we won't be capable of taking it; but we can't know. Note that Klagenfurt is the hardest possible operation in Austria, though.
 
[X] Plan: Habsburgs Delenda Est

Franz-Joseph, come out and feel the kiss of my sword on your neck!
 
DanBaque said:
Ah, well, that's a different point, and I disagree that after all our success and having already flanked Vienna we won't be capable of taking it; but we can't know. Note that Klagenfurt is the hardest possible operation in Austria, though.
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We haven't flanked it, that's what taking Brno is for.



Trying to strike from our positions in Prague to Vienna directly is a huge flanking risk and a very large distance to cover without offering that much wider of a front. Taking Brno would open up the whole area to us while offering a defensive line against a flank from the east. It would also directly connect us to our Polish front.

[X] Plan: Case Vigo
-[X] [POLAND] Initiate an offensive toward Lvov.
-[X] [AUSTRIA] Initiate an offensive toward Brno.
-[X] [ITALY] Ask the Allies to initiate a full offensive.
-[X] [BALTIC] Deploy the Allied fleet to contest the eastern Baltic Sea.
-[X] [MED] Ask the Allies to threaten the Dalmatian coast.
 
I can't speak for anyone else. but my hope for attack on Vienna is not actually for taking the city, but to force Austria to move their army away from Alpines front and lessen the risk on Italian and Spanish's offensive.
 
IamtooSleepy said:
I can't speak for anyone else. but my hope for attack on Vienna is not actually for taking the city, but to force Austria to move their army away from Alpines front and lessen the risk on Italian and Spanish's offensive.
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Crashing our whole Austrian front into a narrow approach to Vienna's fortifications for that sounds like a colossal waste in manpower. And sadly a probing attack on it wasn't an option. It's good to have a benefit to the attack even if we don't succeed but it shouldn't be the main draw because our generals are definitely going to try to make it work and bleed for it. Knowing that I'd rather spend one more turn setting it up so it succeeds.

I feel like people are also overselling the importance of letting our allies connect with us. Them tying up Austrian soldiers by forcing them to defend the Alps forever at very low human and material costs is fine, actually. It means that part of our alliance system is still going to be fresh when the war ends, and that's great to secure our gains.
 
[X] Plan: Tightening the Noose

If we're attacking on both fronts, better that they support each other and widen the salient rather than extending two. Striking at Vienna and seperately at Lvov runs a high risk of one attack bogging down against the enemy's strong point and one bogging down due to flank threats, accomplishing nothing.
 
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Anchises said:
I don't see why people wouldn't want to make it easier to storm Vienna. Like Vigo basically allows us to outflank Viena's defenses and cuts the links between Russia and Austria. That way it will be much easier to storm a weakened Vienna from two sides

I just don't understand why we wouldn't try to conserve our manpower to the best of our ability.
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I would've been fine with Case Vigo if it didn't try to pull off an Italo-Spanish offensive at the same time that we're attacking Brno. That's throwing away tons of lives for a strike at the Alps that would have been made much more likely to gain a foothold & connect with our Austrian front while the League are scrambling to go all-in on defending Vienna.
 
Nyvis said:
Crashing our whole Austrian front into a narrow approach to Vienna's fortifications for that sounds like a colossal waste in manpower. And sadly a probing attack on it wasn't an option. It's good to have a benefit to the attack even if we don't succeed but it shouldn't be the main draw because our generals are definitely going to try to make it work and bleed for it. Knowing that I'd rather spend one more turn setting it up so it succeeds.

I feel like people are also overselling the importance of letting our allies connect with us. Them tying up Austrian soldiers by forcing them to defend the Alps forever at very low human and material costs is fine, actually. It means that part of our alliance system is still going to be fresh when the war ends, and that's great to secure our gains.
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And yet we were able to encircle Prague just fine with a similarly narrow frontage.

We should also not forget our advantage in armaments—the Austrians don't yet have Maxim guns, or they haven't been mentioned so far, plus we have infantry scale mortars and river artillery support. The idea that this will be a hopeless meat grinder is unfounded considering our success against similar fortifications, and our generals aren't going to feed soldiers into one of there isn't a hope of victory. It has been etranger's policy throughout the war that our commanders aren't idiots, and that will continue to be true here.
 
Regency said:
I would've been fine with Case Vigo if it didn't try to pull off an Italo-Spanish offensive at the same time that we're attacking Brno. That's throwing away tons of lives for a strike at the Alps that would have been made much more likely to gain a foothold & connect with our Austrian front while the League are scrambling to go all-in on defending Vienna.
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Habsburgs Delenda Est is much the same, I find it extremely unlikely that we break through in either the Alps or Vienna. The enemy has numbers and prepared defensive positions, and we can't concentrate our forces as well as would be ideal while making a second attack somewhere completely different. I'd rather a plan that had the Allies only apply pressure, but better one pointless offensive than three.
 
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