Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Just the Skinwalker and the connection to framing Harry

Did none of this count as a supernatural secret?
 
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Of Horrors Old and New​
COMMENTARY
-The abbreviated history of how the Free Association of Independent Ranchers became the Broken Arrows, plus their war with the Navajo, probably counts as a supernatural secret for this scene.
+2m Essence, should bring our Essence to 9/12 m.


-The sixties to 2006 is roughly forty years.
Even if Hall was a child in the 1960s, which is possible, he should be at a minimum in his 40s. And while serious magic use slows down aging, it doesnt appear to do so until you're middle aged; Harry still appears to age appropriately.

That Hall looks to be roughly 25 suggests either a feature of whatever bodywork the naagloshii did, or their sojourn in the NeverNever eating spirits retarded or reversed their aging. And the fact that Molly isn't remarking on his clothes suggest they are unremarkable human shit. Bought or stolen, instead of handmade off the grid shit.


-Ugh, cannibals. So uncute.

An original population of 42 people cut down to 14 is roughly 67% attrition. I suspect that probably ensures that Molly has no interest in this dude and will leave his fate to Lara's tender mercies; the naagloshii would have filtered for those willing to be corrupted and feed on their own friends and family.

Pity. Molly could have used a sorcerer minion.

That still counts for 14 baby sorcerers, plus their accumulated resources over 40 years.
And Hall says they were called for war. Thats probably enough to burn the Raith estate to the ground with minimal casualties. Might not kill every vampire, but will get everyone else, especially if led by a naagloshii.

Bright side, no wizard-tier talent among them.


-The Feds could just as easily be the Special Collections Division as Daedalus.

More likely to be the SCD actually; the Daedalus field agents we met are frankly too ignorant and underpowered to play in this league, and if they'd run into Broken Seeker or his murder coven of baby skin walkers, they'd probably have lost the entire field team in spectacular, headlines-making fashion.

Plus, the Navajo are more likely to have a relationship with the SCD than Daedalus, just based on longevity.
Either way, I am pretty sure the White Queen is aware of both Daedalus and the SCD of the Library of Congress.
Her intelligence resources are too broad for it to be otherwise.


-That little war was in Nevada, which is in Carlos' stomping grounds. Might have been before his time though.
Dresden might need to make some calls.


-Deer Park is a 2000 acres nature preserve in Cook County, Illnois.
~40 miles/1 hour north of Chicago by road.
So its maybe 10-20/10-20 minutes miles from the Raith Estate.

It sees a significant amount of human traffic as well; hikers, picnickers, etc.

Which, given that these dudes are explicitly cannibals who enjoy feeding on prey who are suffering and in pain, suggests that we would expect to see a spike in murders and missing person's reports if these guys have been there long. If none, their arrival is recent. Meaning that the naagloshii called them in recently for something big.


Rolls
*From a previous update*
Subterfuge vs Molly perception
*Back to this update*
A guess as to why you got that null answer
Intimidation
One thing you can say about this guy, he does not lack for will
...but he is under Lara's thrall for a year since that last scene (one year's worth)
The enemy rolled a 7 dice Subterfuge dice pool, which suggests that they are still operating within roughly human limits.

Quite the Willpower roll from Hall.
We could have beaten it with an Excellency, but thankfully didn't have to.

The reason not to tell her anything else is that it's not relevant to the current situation. To be honest, I am a bit lost about the motivation of the skinwalker cult here. Apparently, there's not going to be an attack. What were they trying to slow us down for? I am tempted to use the crown on this man, but damn, I am loathe to lose him as a focus.
Yes it is.

Before his murder by the naagloshii, Lt Greene was attacked outside Dresden's apartment by someone wearing Thomas' face.
And one of his informants had all the signs of having been fed on by a vampire according to his widow.
That suggests that Broken Seeker was/is working with someone inside the White Court.

Which, when you combine that with the fact that Hall over here knew when Lara was supposed to have a meeting with Molly, and where? Means that they have one or more members of the White Court working with the naagloshii. Someone with access to very high level White Court comms as late as yesterday.

Makes it very much relevant to the current situation.

If for no other reason than we are at risk for whoever it is sabotaging the wards or dropping them, or staging some other sort of attack on us during this affair. Also worth remembering that we are briefing both Lydia and Thomas as well.
Lydia knows about the naagloshii, but not about the Greene link.
Well for one thing Lara is not the most trustworthy of beings and while Molly does not like Daedalus she does not know what the White Court should do to them if they find out that there are government agents agents out there hunting the supernatural. After all she cannot really explain a connection without explaining what the people in question are.
The White Court influence and intelligence network is damn impressive. Very little chance that Daedalus has been bumbling around the country for a couple years without their being aware of them. Especially given such blunders like the New Orleans affair where they blundered into a wizard's sanctum.

Just their taking over the Red Room murder investigation is the kind of thing that knowledgeable watchers would note.
I mean, after that rogue FBI team back in Fool Moon caused the disaster with the loop garou, a lot of people would have prioritized getting eyes on federal law enforcement.

Of course, Molly might not know that.
Probably doesnt know that. Her intelligence network could use some work.
 
Ugh, cannibals. So uncute.

An original population of 42 people cut down to 14 is roughly 67% attrition. I suspect that probably ensures that Molly has no interest in this dude and will leave his fate to Lara's tender mercies; the naagloshii would have filtered for those willing to be corrupted and feed on their own friends and family.

Pity. Molly could have used a sorcerer minion.
This is the kind of guy that if we had the maggot pit I would not hesitate to throw him in.
 
There is a difference between Lara knowing about Daedalus and knowing they are involved somehow with something that might take house cleaning from her. Lara and people like her can be aware of many things, that does not mean they have all that information because it still takes effort and resources to get the details. Did she spend the resources to ask about the Red Room? Molly does not know, she can only guess what kind of resources Lara has from her, rather impressive, personal skills and what she can extrapolate of other White Court Vampires.
 
Though we did take several ghouls who are extremly likely to be anthrophages into our service. Maybe not the young ones, but the old crew around Adam for sure.

They just weren't as openly psycho about it as this poor bastard, who was on complete no-filter mode as a result of his injuries and enthrallment.
 
Though we did take several ghouls who are extremly likely to be anthrophages into our service. Maybe not the young ones, but the old crew around Adam for sure.

They just weren't as openly psycho about it as this poor bastard, who was on complete no-filter mode as a result of his injuries and enthrallment.

The ghouls who worked for vampires... yeah those definitely ate people. Molly did not ask in so many words but she did not have to. Also the young ones may have done so depending on how their hunger awoke.
 
Thats probably enough to burn the Raith estate to the ground with minimal casualties.
I am fairly sure you are underestimating whampires here. 14 near humans should not be enough to take the main keep of the White court with minimal causalities, otherwise White Court would not be a player at all.

Yes it is.

Before his murder by the naagloshii, Lt Greene was attacked outside Dresden's apartment by someone wearing Thomas' face.
And one of his informants had all the signs of having been fed on by a vampire according to his widow.
That suggests that Broken Seeker was/is working with someone inside the White Court.

Which, when you combine that with the fact that Hall over here knew when Lara was supposed to have a meeting with Molly, and where? Means that they have one or more members of the White Court working with the naagloshii. Someone with access to very high level White Court comms as late as yesterday.

Makes it very much relevant to the current situation.

If for no other reason than we are at risk for whoever it is sabotaging the wards or dropping them, or staging some other sort of attack on us during this affair. Also worth remembering that we are briefing both Lydia and Thomas as well.
Lydia knows about the naagloshii, but not about the Greene link.
I agree that we should tell her about Naagloshii having connections with White court, but that doesn't mean we need to tell her about Lt Greene. I am fairly sure she's still ignorant of Isabela being our minion, or the whole "it nearly blew a lot of White Court holdings" situation. She's smart enough to know that we likely have kept a copy of the incriminating evidence.
 
VOTE
[X] The Skinwalker and the connection to framing Harry and the White Court connection via the attempt on Sarah Greene's life


RATIONALE
These are both relevant.
The naagloshii, or one of its minions, wore Thomas' face to assault Lt Greene before his death. Thats Lara's brother, and the White King's son. Inherently political choice.

The fact that the skinwalker knew where Molly was supposed to meet Lara is very much evidence that there is a leak somewhere, and pointing at evidence of the skinwalker collaborating with someone in the White Court months ago confirms that the leak is not on Molly's side of things.

And the political element makes it clear that this is not a random thing.
White Court connections in an attempt to take out a senior White Council commander risks dragging the White Court into a war the leadership have done their resolute best to stay out of for the last five years.

And in the short term, whoever leaked the info of the meeting to the naagloshii is probably still in this estate, which means that Lara needs to know there's a good chance we cant rely on the wards not failing at a convenient moment.

Though we did take several ghouls who are extremly likely to be anthrophages into our service. Maybe not the young ones, but the old crew around Adam for sure.

They just weren't as openly psycho about it as this poor bastard, who was on complete no-filter mode as a result of his injuries and enthrallment.
Note what I said:
They tortured, killed and ate their own friends and family. Members of their own commune/cult.

Ghouls feed on what meat they can get, with a preference for human flesh due to their curse/Hunger.
While they eat their own dead if they die of natural causes, they dont murder their own friends or attempt to hurry along the process of their demise. They certainly dont do torture murder.

Humans dont have to eat human flesh. Some do, in extremis, and for religious reasons, but there are strong taboos against doing so. And in 1960s America, food wasn't that scarce. And the torture bit is completely unnecessary.
For these dudes, it was a choice.

Now its questionable how much free choice they had because naagloshii, but as far as I am currently aware, naagloshii dont have super persuasion powers. And the fact that the other two-thirds of humans are dead suggests that the majority wouldn't go along with this shit.

So unless these were all children when the naagloshii got its hands on them, ew is the least Molly will say.

Is there redemption possible? Sure.
But thats not what I think is going to be Molly's first impulse about this. I mean, at the moment, they have less excuse than the Blampires and Rampires
 
[X] The Skinwalker and the connection to framing Harry and the White Court connection via the attempt on Sarah Greene's life
Now its questionable how much free choice they had because naagloshii, but as far as I am currently aware, naagloshii dont have super persuasion powers. And the fact that the other two-thirds of humans are dead suggests that the majority wouldn't go along with this shit.

So unless these were all children when the naagloshii got its hands on them, ew is the least Molly will say.

Is there redemption possible? Sure.
But thats not what I think is going to be Molly's first impulse about this. I mean, at the moment, they have less excuse than the Blampires and Rampires
I feel like the ancient monster propably has ways to convince you that you better be the predator than the prey.
He might not be conventionally persuasive, but I bet his intimidation is pretty up there.
 
VOTE
[X] The Skinwalker and the connection to framing Harry and the White Court connection via the attempt on Sarah Greene's life


RATIONALE
These are both relevant.
The naagloshii, or one of its minions, wore Thomas' face to assault Lt Greene before his death. Thats Lara's brother, and the White King's son. Inherently political choice.

The fact that the skinwalker knew where Molly was supposed to meet Lara is very much evidence that there is a leak somewhere, and pointing at evidence of the skinwalker collaborating with someone in the White Court months ago confirms that the leak is not on Molly's side of things.

And the political element makes it clear that this is not a random thing.
White Court connections in an attempt to take out a senior White Council commander risks dragging the White Court into a war the leadership have done their resolute best to stay out of for the last five years.

And in the short term, whoever leaked the info of the meeting to the naagloshii is probably still in this estate, which means that Lara needs to know there's a good chance we cant rely on the wards not failing at a convenient moment.


Note what I said:
They tortured, killed and ate their own friends and family. Members of their own commune/cult.

Ghouls feed on what meat they can get, with a preference for human flesh due to their curse/Hunger.
While they eat their own dead if they die of natural causes, they dont murder their own friends or attempt to hurry along the process of their demise. They certainly dont do torture murder.

Humans dont have to eat human flesh. Some do, in extremis, and for religious reasons, but there are strong taboos against doing so. And in 1960s America, food wasn't that scarce. And the torture bit is completely unnecessary.
For these dudes, it was a choice.

Now its questionable how much free choice they had because naagloshii, but as far as I am currently aware, naagloshii dont have super persuasion powers. And the fact that the other two-thirds of humans are dead suggests that the majority wouldn't go along with this shit.

As far as Molly knows naagloshii steal the power of those they devour, so if one were to devour a human wizard skilled in mind magic they would inherit some part of that ability. On the other hand they might not even need that as their un-Fallen role was that of teachers they might be quite skilled in molding a society as a matter of long experience
 
I am fairly sure you are underestimating whampires here. 14 near humans should not be enough to take the main keep of the White court with minimal causalities, otherwise White Court would not be a player at all.
I dont think I am.
These are a group of 14 posthuman sorcerers who've been groomed by a small god of terror over four decades, consumed spirits and humans for power, and they have the additional advantage of prep time and leadership by a naagloshii.

The White Court, by contrast, is both at peace and literally only just got word of the threat minutes to hours before they hit.
Most of the fighters here are just clued-in human security.
I'd be surprised if there's 20 White Court vampires on the estate right now, counting Lara and Thomas.

This is not a fair fight and magic is a major force multiplier to boot.

14x sorcerers with prep time is a serious thing at the best of times, especially given the kinds of bound spirits, constructs and contracts an unscrupulous sorcerer can call on when going to war. 14x lesser skin walkers led by a naagloshii is a magical nightmare that would require multiple Warden strike teams and a couple Senior Council-tier members to interdict.



Look at what Victor Sells was capable of in Book 1 for a rough benchmark, and he was just one black magic sorcerer with less than five years of training, and a human teacher. He had multiple kaiju scorpion drones. He could summon demons. He could astral project and operate distance murder rituals.

Or look at Leonid Kravos. Or the strega witches in Blood Rites.
None of whom were great evocators, but with prep time were all capable of threatening the life of a White Council wizard with significant combat experience.

Multiply those capabilities by 14, and then make the casters cannibalistic shapeshifters to boot.
They'd torch this place easy. Probably won't get all the vampires, but they can leave this a smoking hole in the ground.
[X] The Skinwalker and the connection to framing Harry and the White Court connection via the attempt on Sarah Greene's life
I feel like the ancient monster propably has ways to convince you that you better be the predator than the prey.
He might not be conventionally persuasive, but I bet his intimidation is pretty up there.
Takes more than intimidation to build a group or society.
Especially in the southwestern United States, on an Indian reservation.
If these weren't children, the wrong kind of pressure would just make them scarper.

As far as Molly knows naagloshii steal the power of those they devour, so if one were to devour a human wizard skilled in mind magic they would inherit some part of that ability. On the other hand they might not even need that as their un-Fallen role was that of teachers they might be quite skilled in molding a society as a matter of long experience
Fair enough.
Given that Molly didn't see much, if any of that with Hellscry, I am assuming there wasn't much, if any mind sculpting involved here. Which leaves mundane society sculpting.

Which, once again, comes round to the question of whether they were kids.
 
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[X] The Skinwalker and the connection to framing Harry and the White Court connection via the attempt on Sarah Greene's life

I feel like the ancient monster propably has ways to convince you that you better be the predator than the prey.
He might not be conventionally persuasive, but I bet his intimidation is pretty up there.
Oh at least the one naagloshii in canon we know of canon knows automatically what the best way to torture someone via a specific kind of intellectus. Sooooo yes their very very good at intimidation tactics.
 
I agree that we should tell her about Naagloshii having connections with White court, but that doesn't mean we need to tell her about Lt Greene. I am fairly sure she's still ignorant of Isabela being our minion, or the whole "it nearly blew a lot of White Court holdings" situation. She's smart enough to know that we likely have kept a copy of the incriminating evidence.
-We do need to tell her the details.
The Lt Greene situation and how it played out makes it clear it was it involved one or more White Court conspirators. The fact that they used Thomas face makes it one that's aimed at the Raith family specifically.

-The woman knows Molly's personal phone number, and Lydia's identity.
She would have to be deaf, blind and stupid not to know about Isabella being our minion, given that Isabella openly attends Molly's high school and has for a couple months.

-She may not know about Molly's awareness of the details of the White Court sex trade/blackmail network, because that was a function of our Crown being bullshit.
Madrigal Raith hired Leinth specifically to keep the situation off the books after all.

And while Leinth knows we can summon cyberdevils, he presumably doesnt know the specifics of their capabilities.
Or how they would allow us to recover destroyed data.
 
I am fairly sure you are underestimating whampires here. 14 near humans should not be enough to take the main keep of the White court with minimal causalities, otherwise White Court would not be a player at all.


I agree that we should tell her about Naagloshii having connections with White court, but that doesn't mean we need to tell her about Lt Greene. I am fairly sure she's still ignorant of Isabela being our minion, or the whole "it nearly blew a lot of White Court holdings" situation. She's smart enough to know that we likely have kept a copy of the incriminating evidence.
Imma note that Lara probably has like 5 dots in certain political skills and espionage and such. She's centuries old and is part of the supernatural sexy vamps who control most of the u.s entertainment industry. Not directly mind you there are only so many white court vampires just you know in positions of power in said industry and connections throughout the whole thing.
 
Imma note that Lara probably has like 5 dots in certain political skills and espionage and such. She's centuries old and is part of the supernatural sexy vamps who control most of the u.s entertainment industry. Not directly mind you there are only so many white court vampires just you know in positions of power in said industry and connections throughout the whole thing.

Depending on how White Court vampire elders develop, she could have six or more dots in them.
 
[X] The Skinwalker and the connection to framing Harry and the White Court connection via the attempt on Sarah Greene's life
If this was true, White Court could never have become a major world player. An angered party of wizards during Rome era would have wiped them out in a busy afternoon.
 
Imma note that Lara probably has like 5 dots in certain political skills and espionage and such. She's centuries old and is part of the supernatural sexy vamps who control most of the u.s entertainment industry. Not directly mind you there are only so many white court vampires just you know in positions of power in said industry and connections throughout the whole thing.
I suspect that a major limiting factor on white court power is despite how they like to present the white court is nothing like a unified power block. I don't think that we have seen a single vampire who is loyal to the white court as an organization.

So in one sense the 'white court' has huge influence in the halls of power, but in a very real sense it's many different vampires have influence in the halls of power and often get in each other's way.
 
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Depending on how White Court vampire elders develop, she could have six or more dots in them.
Yeah though I'm still a bit annoyed at dp giving white court disciplines from the book. Cause it kinda ignores a lot of what we've seen in canon. They weren't even one of the heads just an old white court at best they should just have better control of themselves, some knowledge of rituals, and maybe a somewhat bigger pool for demon thing attached to their soul and preternatural skill.
[X] The Skinwalker and the connection to framing Harry and the White Court connection via the attempt on Sarah Greene's life

If this was true, White Court could never have become a major world player. An angered party of wizards during Rome era would have wiped them out in a busy afternoon.
Imma note the idea is that said white court vampires most aren't actually here and that's why it's partly a pretty big problem.
 
I suspect that a major limiting factor on white court power is despite how they like to present the white court is nothing like a unified power block. I don't think that we have seen a single vampire who is loyal to the white court as an organization.

So in one sense the 'white court' has huge influence in the halls of power, but in a very real sense it's many different vampires how influence in the halls of power and often get in each other's way.
In fairness they still jockey influence and put up a unified front at times even if said front is obviously false. Also you know still have plenty of influence to use and soft power on each other. Never really said they were unified they do in fact have huge influence on said industries though.
 
Yeah though I'm still a bit annoyed at dp giving white court disciplines from the book. Cause it kinda ignores a lot of what we've seen in canon. They weren't even one of the heads just an old white court at best they should just have better control of themselves, some knowledge of rituals, and maybe a somewhat bigger pool for demon thing attached to their soul and preternatural skill.

I don't know. We've seen powerful White Court vampires do some pretty superhuman things when they cut loose and burn power.
 
I don't know. We've seen powerful White Court vampires do some pretty superhuman things when they cut loose and burn power.
Well yeah those superhuman things are in certain areas though. I'm not saying older ones can't do more impressive feats. But random disciplines is a bit annoying. Lara is presumably exceptional in any court and she's not really shown anything outside of the baseline at somewhat greater levels. Now the leaders probably have their own hidden things going and an absurd amount of knowledge.
 
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Well yeah those superhuman things are in certain areas though. I'm not saying older ones can't do more impressive feats. But random disciplines is a bit annoying. Lara is presumably exceptional in any court and she's not really shown anything outside of the baseline at somewhat greater levels. Now the leaders probably have their own hidden things going and an absurd amount of knowledge.

Lara once enchanted Harry into being so horny he has the self-confidence to briefly stop time. I'd say that is pretty impresive :V
 
Do white court just have access to a whole bunch of discipline powers? Cause they only did like three things in canon burn for power, incite emotion, regen, oh read emotions, anything else is stuff they made deals for, learned over time like rituals, and just general skill. Note those previous things can be applied in multiple ways like general horny aura or specific horny aura. But their usually at least in said categories.

Also stuff like eating too much or too little has risks as in losing control.
 
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