Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

[X] The Final Preparations
-[x] Have our economic planners develop a Three Year Plan to increase our military industry by half.
-[x] Continue our planned naval expansion and army reforms.
-[x] Form a foreign intelligence agency to spy on and sabotage our enemies.
-[x] Send diplomats to neighbors of Austria and Russia to see if any of them are interested in forming an anti-Imperial League coalition.
-[x] Send graduates of our Alpine training camp into Austria and Russia to lay the basis for a local revolutionary struggle.
-[x] Expand our military infrastructure (forts, railways, critical roads, etc.) to protect our borders from Imperial aggression and allow us to quickly mobilize in case of war.

spiritualatheist said:

The creation of national identities iis an inevitably violent process. That's just a historical fact? Nationalism is shit in large part because when the state starts defining what the in-group is everyone else becomes the out-group and gets violently oppressed. There's a tremendous difference between talking about the culture of people who live in Germany and "German Culture" as defined by a state.

Do I think this plank will cause a genocide? No. But Nationalism is a poisonous thing and we should do everything we can to shoot it in the fucking head.

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The 'out group' always getting oppressed is patently false. And honestly, good luck trying to destroy nationalism, because you're never succeeding unless you destroy the German nation as a concept. Nationalism isn't a poison in of itself, just like how religion isn't, or culture isn't. The reason why nationalism might seem 'bad' is because humans have used it to commit atrocities on one another.it's a justification for humans being bad, not the cause.

[X] Vanguard Communist Party (Valkyrie Clique)
-[X] As the implementation of Labor Recognition has only just begun, provide full support to the Commission on Equality to avoid immediate backsliding and continue the effort.
-[X] Centralize the planning committees of the various Commissions into a standing Planning Conference Committee with the initiative to place sectoral and cross-sector planning bills before the Assembly.
-[X] Establish a national system of borrowing centers and goods libraries to reduce redundant production while improving the standard of living of the populace.
-[X] Reintroduce and formalize the morale and mental-healthcare functions that the commissariat in the United Front had taken on during the Second German Revolution.
-[X] Legally enshrine a right to literacy, with anyone who has been prevented from obtaining literacy in their mother-tongue being provided the materials and instruction needed.
-[X] Celebrate the wedding of Walpurga Voight and her wife as a proverbial gauntlet thrown at the face of reaction.

I can not believe I am actually voting for an explicitly Vanguardist plan, but since the plan I actually want to vote for is highly unlikely to passsed the 10 percent threshold...

Although I am particular concern about centralised planning after we decentralized it 2 elections ago, the rest of the planks are what I am fine with. Preventing women rights from backsliding is crucial in this time of national division. Durable goods and mental health service are also something I want.

01paradox01 said:

The 'out group' always getting oppressed is patently false. And honestly, good luck trying to destroy nationalism, because you're never succeeding unless you destroy the German nation as a concept. Nationalism isn't a poison in of itself, just like how religion isn't, or culture isn't. The reason why nationalism might seem 'bad' is because humans have used it to commit atrocities on one another.it's a justification for humans being bad, not the cause.

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But of course, the German nation as a concept cannot be destroyed, just like how the Russian nation cannot be destroyed. Have Polish people in your country? Assimilate them! They live in *your* nation after all, not theirs. If they didn't wanna be assimilated I guess they should have stayed as an independent state! Oh wait, perhaps they should go somewhere else then- no because every other state practices what you preach, and what the logical conclusion of nationalism leads to.

Nationalism does not seek to include, it seeks to exclude. Perhaps we should have the whole world be subject to "German culture" when the revolution strikes then, for after all, they are within our German state, not theirs!

And what even is German culture? You surely jest when you seek to compare the lederhosen wearing people of Bavaria with the working class dockyard workers of Hamburg! It is an absurd fallacy to assume that either group has any cultural connection beyond the language they speak, and even then you could hardly convince a Mecklenburger to speak with a woman from Baden without ripping their collectives hairs out, for the accents that separate them already prove that such a concept of German culture is nebulous at best, and an insinuation of something far more sinister at worst!

[X] Plan Progressing Forward Towards The Future
-[X] Establish a guest worker and student program with all expenses sponsored travel from anyone willing including their families, with the option to become a citizen or return home whenever they wish
-[X] Create the Foreign Bank for Investment as an instrument for all cooperatives to efficiently invest in other countries where it is mutually beneficial
-[X] Assist the Italian left by giving them a 'blank cheque' of money and goods to sustain and expand operations
-[X] Formalise polyamory in the republic, extending free love to all.
-[X] Encourage the formation of cooperative-cooperatives in industries where such a merger would be sensible and lead to greater efficiency
-[X] Encourage overproduction and efficiency in the workplace with medals, decorations, privileges, and other positive incentives along with voluntary classes on efficiency to create a culture of patriotic productivity

nachtingale said:

And what even is German culture? You surely jest when you seek to compare the lederhosen wearing people of Bavaria with the working class dockyard workers of Hamburg! It is an absurd fallacy to assume that either group has any cultural connection beyond the language they speak, and even then you could hardly convince a Mecklenburger to speak with a woman from Baden without ripping their collectives hairs out, for the accents that separate them already prove that such a concept of German culture is nebulous at best, and an insinuation of something far more sinister at worst!

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Yeah, kind of this. At this point in time, a unified German state has really only existed since about the 1870s. As I understand, OTL German culture and nationalism was very heavily influenced by Prussian militarism, which isn't the case in this timeline. I'm guessing a lot of Germans still strongly associate themselves with a regional identity like Bavarians or Saxons rather than what still might be a somewhat nebulous 'German' culture.

Spylobster said:

Yeah, kind of this. At this point in time, a unified German state has really only existed since about the 1870s. As I understand, OTL German culture and nationalism was very heavily influenced by Prussian militarism, which isn't the case in this timeline. I'm guessing a lot of Germans still strongly associate themselves with a regional identity like Bavarians or Saxons rather than what still might be a somewhat nebulous 'German' culture.

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I doubt it personally, I think those kind of regional identities got mostly subsumed when most of the remaining regional player from the HRE days turned into the first republic.

Silver Gambit said:

I doubt it personally, I think those kind of regional identities got mostly subsumed when most of the remaining regional player from the HRE days turned into the first republic.

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Eh, I don't know about this. Cities like Hamburg along with Prussia, parts of Bavaria, and most of the rest of eastern Germany didn't come under republican control until the 1860s. It hasn't even been 30 years since then.

Spylobster said:

Eh, I don't know about this. Cities like Hamburg along with Prussia, parts of Bavaria, and most of the rest of eastern Germany didn't come under republican control until the 1860s. It hasn't even been 30 years since then.

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we never actually got any of Prussia though, if I remember right we just let Russia get it and most of those people that were pretty strongly attached to that identity have most likely fled or died during the civil war

Generally speaking these kinds of regional differences don't go away by themselves, in this time period at least. Like, French became the single unified language of France because the state did a lot of cultural genocide, not because everybody agreed on what French was. Absent that kind of deliberate campaign to construct a single German identity you'd expect a lot of regional dialects and customs to have stuck around.

spiritualatheist said:

Generally speaking these kinds of regional differences don't go away by themselves, in this time period at least. Like, French became the single unified language of France because the state did a lot of cultural genocide, not because everybody agreed on what French was. Absent that kind of deliberate campaign to construct a single German identity you'd expect a lot of regional dialects and customs to have stuck around.

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The only thing you need to start slowly strangling local culture/dialect is an modern centralised education system. You may claim it's different for us but i would disagree, German Republic is still a state ultimately, no matter how socialist.

[X] To Moscow by 1900
-[X] Begin construction of the Friedrich-Engels-Canal* and the Rhein-Herne-Canal* using the expertise we gained from the Karl-Marx-Canal. Use all technological methods to finish construction quickly and hire foreign workers if necessary, supplying the Ruhr area and taking strain away from our railway network is essential.
-[X] Build large railway routes that will allow fast mobilization and steady supply along our most likely offensive routes against the Imperial League. Conduct regular mobilization drills and work-out mobilization schedules that involve the War Commission, the Unions and other interested parties.
-[X] Provide funding and training for radical groups in Italy and begin drawing up plans for quick intervention to support progressive forces should the situation escalate.
-[X] Formalize the counter-intelligence role of the National Gendarmerie and provide the additional funding, training and manpower the agency needs to fulfil that role. Also create an intelligence agency that collects intel on foreign nations and provides it, along with analysis, to the War Commission and authorized Assembly members.
-[X] Bankroll a program of subsidies and no-interest loan to accelerate the growth of future industries like the Benz Motor Co-op. Technological leadership is crucial for the security of the Republic.
-[X] Offer military goods at factory price to Spain and encourage barter deals instead of currency payment.

DkArthas said:

The only thing you need to start slowly strangling local culture/dialect is an modern centralised education system. You may claim it's different for us but i would disagree, German Republic is still a state ultimately, no matter how socialist.

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You... don't? Though? Just because it's convenient to have a unified language doesn't mean resources can't be directed to ensuring local dialects and languages remain alive and well. It's like how Cantonese speakers all know Mandarin but still choose to speak Cantonese because it's the local culture. It can be done, however for a bourgeois state it is simply not profitable.

nachtingale said:

You... don't? Though? Just because it's convenient to have a unified language doesn't mean resources can't be directed to ensuring local dialects and languages remain alive and well. It's like how Cantonese speakers all know Mandarin but still choose to speak Cantonese because it's the local culture. It can be done, however for a bourgeois state it is simply not profitable.

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You can slow it, that's part of what my plank is about, to protect local culture. But a centralised state hates differences, increasing urbanization and modern education system slowly strips away the local dialects over the generations. I have seen that process happening IRL where I live.

You can claim the problem is purely bourgeois or whatever but i vehemently disagree. It's an oppression inherent to states. But i suppose it's a point that's arguable since AES is not a thing beyond Egypt

[X] Rekindling the Republic of Virtue
-[X] Create a new national holiday, Mobilization Day, where all citizens of the Republic participate in a mock mobilization. This is to bring our citizens together, and provide regular stress testing for mobilization practices.
-[X] Continue naval expansion and army reforms
-[X] Formalize an intelligence agency to gather information on our enemies and organize the activities of graduates of our Alpine Academy.
-[X] Provide recognition and funding for social groups that promote republican virtues in defense of the republic, such as community halls and hunting clubs.
-[X] Support the creation of Junior War Clubs in high schools across Germany, where students will practice and compete against each other in mock war games. These clubs will be democratically organized, preparing students for service in the Landwehr.
-[X] Facilitate the organization of a civic religion devoted to the republican struggle and dissolution of crowns.

[X] To Moscow by 1900
-[X] Begin construction of the Friedrich-Engels-Canal* and the Rhein-Herne-Canal* using the expertise we gained from the Karl-Marx-Canal. Use all technological methods to finish construction quickly and hire foreign workers if necessary, supplying the Ruhr area and taking strain away from our railway network is essential.
-[X] Build large railway routes that will allow fast mobilization and steady supply along our most likely offensive routes against the Imperial League. Conduct regular mobilization drills and work-out mobilization schedules that involve the War Commission, the Unions and other interested parties.
-[X] Provide funding and training for radical groups in Italy and begin drawing up plans for quick intervention to support progressive forces should the situation escalate.
-[X] Formalize the counter-intelligence role of the National Gendarmerie and provide the additional funding, training and manpower the agency needs to fulfil that role. Also create an intelligence agency that collects intel on foreign nations and provides it, along with analysis, to the War Commission and authorized Assembly members.
-[X] Bankroll a program of subsidies and no-interest loan to accelerate the growth of future industries like the Benz Motor Co-op. Technological leadership is crucial for the security of the Republic.
-[X] Offer military goods at factory price to Spain and encourage barter deals instead of currency payment.

Railways.

DkArthas said:

You can spend those resources, that's part of what my plank is about. But a centralised state hates differences, increasing urbanization and modern education system slowly strips away the local dialects over the generations. I have seen that process happening IRL where I live.

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I mean, it doesn't look like our education is actually that centralised, so I think it's not much of a problem - at least for our current constitution. Although the "republican civics" class might be a bit worrying in that regard. I can see some people thinking the local cultures are some backward thing that need to be rectified according to the revolutionary idea or something like that.

Etranger said:

Though localities have extensive rights pertaining to education and the upbringing of children under the constitution, the national government still retains a right of veto when it comes to issues regarding the preservation of the Republic. It is for that reason that the Commission for Education issues a new requirement that all schools and universities begin teaching mandatory courses in republican civics. These political education classes are intended to denounce the evils of monarchism and reaction while instilling pro-Republic values in the attendees. Whether or not they are successful is something that will only be seen in time.

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Then again, the "comprehensive overhaul of the education system and compulsory secondary schooling" in 1886-67 might saw the centralisation of education more than what it was.

01paradox01 said:

The 'out group' always getting oppressed is patently false. And honestly, good luck trying to destroy nationalism, because you're never succeeding unless you destroy the German nation as a concept. Nationalism isn't a poison in of itself, just like how religion isn't, or culture isn't. The reason why nationalism might seem 'bad' is because humans have used it to commit atrocities on one another.it's a justification for humans being bad, not the cause.

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The end goal should absolutely be the destruction of the German nation as a concept. Nationalism can be temporarily revolutionary in nature but it always evolves to take a reactionary role as the nation settle in its position of power. We need to outrun that clock by turning into a piece of an internationalist movement before it's too late.

IamtooSleepy said:

Although I am particular concern about centralised planning after we decentralized it 2 elections ago, the rest of the planks are what I am fine with. Preventing women rights from backsliding is crucial in this time of national division. Durable goods and mental health service are also something I want.

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They're constructing different elements of a planning apparatus that can receive overall direction and remain sensitive to local conditions.

[X] To Moscow by 1900
-[X] Begin construction of the Friedrich-Engels-Canal* and the Rhein-Herne-Canal* using the expertise we gained from the Karl-Marx-Canal. Use all technological methods to finish construction quickly and hire foreign workers if necessary, supplying the Ruhr area and taking strain away from our railway network is essential.
-[X] Build large railway routes that will allow fast mobilization and steady supply along our most likely offensive routes against the Imperial League. Conduct regular mobilization drills and work-out mobilization schedules that involve the War Commission, the Unions and other interested parties.
-[X] Provide funding and training for radical groups in Italy and begin drawing up plans for quick intervention to support progressive forces should the situation escalate.
-[X] Formalize the counter-intelligence role of the National Gendarmerie and provide the additional funding, training and manpower the agency needs to fulfil that role. Also create an intelligence agency that collects intel on foreign nations and provides it, along with analysis, to the War Commission and authorized Assembly members.
-[X] Bankroll a program of subsidies and no-interest loan to accelerate the growth of future industries like the Benz Motor Co-op. Technological leadership is crucial for the security of the Republic.
-[X] Offer military goods at factory price to Spain and encourage barter deals instead of currency payment.

[X] To Moscow by 1900
-[X] Begin construction of the Friedrich-Engels-Canal* and the Rhein-Herne-Canal* using the expertise we gained from the Karl-Marx-Canal. Use all technological methods to finish construction quickly and hire foreign workers if necessary, supplying the Ruhr area and taking strain away from our railway network is essential.
-[X] Build large railway routes that will allow fast mobilization and steady supply along our most likely offensive routes against the Imperial League. Conduct regular mobilization drills and work-out mobilization schedules that involve the War Commission, the Unions and other interested parties.
-[X] Provide funding and training for radical groups in Italy and begin drawing up plans for quick intervention to support progressive forces should the situation escalate.
-[X] Formalize the counter-intelligence role of the National Gendarmerie and provide the additional funding, training and manpower the agency needs to fulfil that role. Also create an intelligence agency that collects intel on foreign nations and provides it, along with analysis, to the War Commission and authorized Assembly members.
-[X] Bankroll a program of subsidies and no-interest loan to accelerate the growth of future industries like the Benz Motor Co-op. Technological leadership is crucial for the security of the Republic.
-[X] Offer military goods at factory price to Spain and encourage barter deals instead of currency payment.

The party may be gone but the party line remains. The Marcobin tendency remains!

Also nationalism is incredibly destructive and a tool for state oppression. It's entirely possible for regional identities to still exist alongside people considering themselves German as a wider overarching idea. It's a family of related cultures. There's no reason to try to stamp it all out when Germany's worked well. The universalist ideology of the republic and socialism can easily absorb regional differences into itself.

spiritualatheist said:

Personally I'm more wary of the national market plan because promoting nationalist, German art is sus in what is steadily becoming a more and more diverse republic.

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I kind of fail to see how these two things connect in a bad way? Participation in common cultural practices will only aid integration no?

Nyvis said:

The end goal should absolutely be the destruction of the German nation as a concept. Nationalism can be temporarily revolutionary in nature but it always evolves to take a reactionary role as the nation settle in its position of power. We need to outrun that clock by turning into a piece of an internationalist movement before it's too late.

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Ok there morgenthau, its not like we had the whole first revolution about this.
Also looking at our own history this kind of stuff will only lead to strife.

Chipsy_21 said:

I kind of fail to see how these two things connect in a bad way? Participation in common cultural practices will only aid integration no?

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Is integration inherently good? Is the expectation that newcomes shed their culture to adopt ours healthy? Or is the assumption that integration is positive just more nationalist brain? Wouldn't it be more healthy to find ways for cultural practices to mesh together harmoniously than for integration to be a one way transfer?

I'll probably go back to the anarchists to do some culturally diverse planning once the war prep is over. @Aranfan has the right idea with planning for non territorial cultural councils as a way to make immigrant cultures part of our system without trying to copy paste ours over theirs.

Chipsy_21 said:

Ok there morgenthau, its not like we had the whole first revolution about this.
Also looking at our own history this kind of stuff will only lead to strife.

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The German people aren't in fact their nations and anti nationalism is not genocide.

We are currently isolated not just nationally but ideologically so our national construct still makes sense, but hopefully that won't last, and as we make like minded partners, why would we want nationalism to stand between us and them?

[X] Plan ISWC Internationalism
-[X] Work with Spain & ISWC member organizations to create the democratic, anti-capitalist, & anti-monarchist Volunteer Aid Movement. VAM, which is officially unaffiliated with any countries nor the ISWC, will have humanitarian aid & armed volunteering public sections.
-[X] VAM will also have a secret section to foment revolutionary cells. It will selectively vet & recruit from Republican Alliance revolutionary training sites' graduates, veterans of Alliance members' intelligence services, & radicals in non-revolutionary states.
-[X] Invite ISWC members to hold the 3rd International & propose for a regular International every four years with a Continuing Committee, elected & subject to recall by ISWC member organizations that attend Internationals, tasked to administrate ISWC during intervals between them.
-[X] Petition 3rd International to create a Research Bureau, which will do research to further revolutionary theoretical development, aid socialist polities' transition to statelessness, & improve mass organizing strategies against absolutism and capital.
-[X] Establish pilot communes in places within Germany that have strong anarchist or less-centralist socialists' support, as well as a balance of urban & rural production. Attempt to create less centralized versions of the trialed labor voucher system through them.
-[X] Organize union laboratories in Germany to foster bottom-up answers towards the industrialization of tomorrow by pairing up scientists, engineers, & factory workers' expertise.

Shit, at this rate none of the anarchist/anarchist adjacent plans are gonna reach the threshold.