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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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I really don't like that ruling.

It makes it exponentially harder to make vampires a serious threat.

An Essence 2 Exalt should not be that much more powerful than an Elder Vampire.
 
Also, our soak in Shintai with this level of Steel Skin active is 21 dice instead of 17, at difficulty 5 still because Scar-Writ Saga Shield is just always active. Just in case you forgot about that, @DragonParadox. And WHWH gives us another -2 difficulty to soaking cold-based attacks like that flash-freeze he just tried, so we soak that at difficulty 3.
 
[X] [GARD] Help guard against the fire from the window
[X] [MOLLY] just keep attacking him in melee, he has to be running out of chi and nihilus is costly to invoke
 
Artemis1992 said:
I really don't like that ruling.

It makes it exponentially harder to make vampires a serious threat.

An Essence 2 Exalt should not be that much more powerful than an Elder Vampire.
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I don't think this exactly unbalances things.

It's also worth noting that ExWoD is to an extent designed around the idea that essence economy is the key element that kills exalts.

At one mote a pop GSNF is something we need to be careful with to avoid running dry when we really need the essence for other stuff.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I don't think this exactly unbalances things.

It's also worth noting that ExWoD is to an extent designed around the idea that essence economy is the key element that kills exalts.

At one mote a pop GSNF is something we need to be careful with to avoid running dry when we really need the essence for other stuff.
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Which is why any charm combinations potentially giving effectively infinite motes, like Mana Maggot Plague + Murder is Meat need very, very careful handling.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I don't think this exactly unbalances things.

It's also worth noting that ExWoD is to an extent designed around the idea that essence economy is the key element that kills exalts.

At one mote a pop GSNF is something we need to be careful with to avoid running dry when we really need the essence for other stuff.
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It brings 99% of Vampires down by 5/7 health levels, effectivly ending every fight on the first scratch.

The cost makes it less useful against minions, but it prevents any single vampire build by VtM rules from surviving more than one attack.

Wan Kuei are exceptional in that they can get bonus health at all, and nottthat well compared to permanent Ox Body Charms.
 
[X] [GARD] Help guard against the fire from the window
[X] [MOLLY] just keep attacking him in melee, he has to be running out of chi and nihilus is costly to invoke

Stab 'em in the face.
 
Yeah I am kind of hesitating on GSNF, it feels too powerful and not in a fun way, it imposes a 3 wound tax on anything you can touch up close or at range. I'm almost inclined to refund you the XP for it and let you pick something else.

Either than or I need to give serious opponents an Ox body equivalent. It would make some sense for the blacks and the reds, but not the whites.
 
DragonParadox said:
Yeah I am kind of hesitating on GSNF, it feels too powerful and not in a fun way, it imposes a 3 wound tax on anything you can touch up close or at range. I'm almost inclined to refund you the XP for it and let you pick something else.

Either than or I need to give serious opponents an Ox body equivalent. It would make some sense for the blacks and the reds, but not the whites.
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Infernalx, in addition to being baby Yama Kings are Solarioids.

If you think this is bad see the Solar version or the Abyssal version.

The only advantage the Infernal version has is that it fights against foes that regenerate.

Besides which, this is working as intended, according to the ExWoD discord as Solaroids are supposed to take on the true monsters of the setting and the damage adders are a huge part of it.
 
You could change GSNF to be a presoak damage adder like Fire and Stones Strike, that reduces the essence economy of the charm without negating its usefullness.

Though note having an Exalt with the right charms stab you is supposed to be really nasty. Exalts are absolute killing machines by design.

An Exalt that focuses on combat is intended to be incredibly deadly compared to almost anything else. EXvsWoD even stats up some of the "You Just Lose" NPCs from WoD for the explicit purpose of allowing Exalts to murder them.
 
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Yzarc said:
Infernalx, in addition to being baby Yama Kings are Solarioids.

If you think this is bad see the Solar version or the Abyssal version.

The only advantage the Infernal version has is that it fights against foes that regenerate.

Besides which, this is working as intended, according to the ExWoD discord as Solaroids are supposed to take on the true monsters of the setting and the damage adders are a huge part of it.
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But not as babys.

We are Essence 2.
To take on the real ancients you should have a full circle of Exalted with more experience.
 
Artemis1992 said:
But not as babys.

We are Essence 2.
To take on the real ancients you should have a full circle of Exalted with more experience.
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This is not E3. This is ExWod.

Essence has specifically been divorced from power levels.

That was the specific reason why there are no Essence requirements for Charms.

It is why we can take perfects from Char gen.
 
Yzarc said:
This should be 8?

3 base damage + 5 Strength (4 base + 1 shintai).
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...yeah I literally cannot make this work. :(

This is the power creep that some have been worried about and the only way to fix it would be to give you nothing but singular opponents who can if not shrug off than at least take 4-5 levels of damage and continue to hit. This either needs to be soakable or it needs to be reduced or every fight in this story is going to be an elaborate game of tag where the enemy is either untouched or practically dead.

I hate to put this on you, especially after I argued rules as written for so long, but this thing is not fun for me to write and in the long term I do not think it is fun for you to read.
 
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Still, it is quite funny that we had some voters saying that the Akuma was going to eat us for breakfast and we couldn't fight it and win, yet we just used one of our charm once on it and suddenly half his health's gone and he needed an outside intervention to scratch us.

Artemis1992 said:
But not as babys.

We are Essence 2.
To take on the real ancients you should have a full circle of Exalted with more experience.
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As Yazrc points out, the fact that we are Essence 2 is a pretty bad indicator since all it changes is how much essence we have in all and how much we can use, so….

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DragonParadox said:
This either needs to be soakable or it needs to be reduced or every fight in this story is going to be an elaborate game of tag where the enemy is either untouched or practically dead.
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Welcome to paranoia combat! Where the term *perfect or die* is very, very literal and the gameplay is rocket tag.
 
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DragonParadox said:
...yeah I literally cannot make this work. :(

This is the power creep that some have been worried about and the only way to fix it would be to give you nothing but singular opponents who and if not shrug off than at least take 4-5 levels of damage. This either needs to be soakable or it needs to be reduced or every fight in this story is going to be an elaborate game of tag where the enemy is either untouched or practically dead.

I hate to put this on you, especially after I argued rules as written for so long, but this thing is not fun for me to write and in the long term I do not think it is fun for you to read.
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Problem is that damage adders are a huge part of the late game as without it, Solariods cannot touch strong foes. Literally. It is balanced to mote economy.

Honestly, I can makd suggestions but you are better off asking on the Discord on this, as this issue has cropped up and been addressed, but removing Damage adders is a massive nerf that will cripple the build.

It would be better to ask for advice before removing the charm for now.
 
DragonParadox said:
...yeah I literally cannot make this work. :(

This is the power creep that some have been worried about and the only way to fix it would be to give you nothing but singular opponents who can if not shrug off than at least take 4-5 levels of damage and continue to hit. This either needs to be soakable or it needs to be reduced or every fight in this story is going to be an elaborate game of tag where the enemy is either untouched or practically dead.

I hate to put this on you, especially after I argued rules as written for so long, but this thing is not fun for me to write and in the long term I do not think it is fun for you to read.
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This is why essence in exalted is HP and perfect dodges are how you spend it. The rules of the setting boil down to "don't get hit" because you have MAYBE one good hit before you are out.
 
Artemis1992 said:
But not as babys.

We are Essence 2.
To take on the real ancients you should have a full circle of Exalted with more experience.
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To be fair, we are 4 XP away from E3. We are peak E2, basically.
DragonParadox said:
...yeah I literally cannot make this work. :(

This is the power creep that some have been worried about and the only way to fix it would be to give you nothing but singular opponents who can if not shrug off than at least take 4-5 levels of damage and continue to hit. This either needs to be soakable or it needs to be reduced or every fight in this story is going to be an elaborate game of tag where the enemy is either untouched or practically dead.

I hate to put this on you, especially after I argued rules as written for so long, but this thing is not fun for me to write and in the long term I do not think it is fun for you to read.
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You do what feels best for you. Though we'll probably need to go through a lot of charms to check them for similar issue. I mean, Principle Invoking Onslaught (also a 3 dot charm) allows for nuke spam. Ichor Flux tendrils gives us on average 4 tendrils with 9 dice in attack pools and 9 strength, even if they do lethal damage.

Maybe make the charm retroactive so it's not nerfed into uselessness? I.e. instead of adding X levels of damage, if we deal the damage, you instead reroll the damage roll with added X dice to the pool? And take the highest roll, probably.
 
Nyarky said:
As Yazrc points out, the fact that we are Essence 2 is a pretty bad indicator since all it changes is how much essence we have in all and how much we can use, so….
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Essence is important because charm duration and per-turn essence spending caps are important, and we did spend a lot of time running half-empty.

Essence is just not the absolute super king of everything because ExWoD is specifically built so E2 character could get everything they need to rock straight out of chargen. You just rock harder and for longer as you progress.
 
Thing is Exalts need damage boosters of some sort, otherwise they just can't compete with other heavy hitters in the WoD ruleset.

I mean even with GSNF Molly isn't actually at the top of damage output for this group. Harry being modeled as an Arete 7 Mage with Forces can with a bit of effort toss 10 health level aggravated damage autohit attacks.
 
Yzarc said:
Problem is that damage adders are a huge part of the late game as without it, Solariods cannot touch strong foes. Literally. It is balanced to mote economy.

Honestly, I can makd suggestions but you are better off asking on the Discord on this, as this issue has cropped up and been addressed, but removing Damage adders is a massive nerf that will cripple the build.

It would be better to ask for advice before removing the charm for now.
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With that damage not being soakable the most dangerous thing I can throw at you becomes lots and lots of mortals with guns, or really anything with guns, anything that can aim, pull the trigger and hang on at full automatic. I don't mind perfect or die in general for the mid to late game, but we are not there yet. It would do a disservice to the narrative and warp the world...

I hate to do this as a GM, a lot, but I am going to have to ret-con GSNF to be soak-able for things that can soak agg for the sake of being able to write this quest long term. I've had this sinking feeling before and I know where it leads, the land of 'no more quest'. If anyone wants to stop reading because of this I entirely understand. I made a mess of this thing :(

For the record I am fine making it unsoakable later but not right now it does not fit the story.

Aeondrac said:
Thing is Exalts need damage boosters of some sort, otherwise they just can't compete with other heavy hitters in the WoD ruleset.

I mean even with GSNF Molly isn't actually at the top of damage output for this group. Harry being modeled as an Arete 7 Mage with Forces can with a bit of effort toss 10 health level aggravated damage autohit attacks.
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Harry is Arrete 5
 
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