Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

This whole discussion is really frustrating.

We just want to make a bit of money on the side, this is not actually an important matter.
Use a bit suspension of disbelieve and assume that DragonParadox will not create disproportionally large problems compared to the importance of a minor action shoved in at the end of the months, okay?
And I mean either option. I think the start-up is slightly less dangerous and takes less effort, but either should be fine.

I'd propably be fine with just selling a few stones to Marcone every months for half the actual value for that matter, if that finished the thing.
 
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On the other hand with the African mine plan we need to buy a hole in the ground, pay some laborers to mine some hundreds of pounds of rock and soil a month out of it , and GO THERE to deliver the diamonds so we can import them back and sell them through official channels with the proper paper trails.
But okay, if we do make a fake workshop, that's still cheaper and easier and more legal than a fake mine.

*Sigh*

"Since you actually have the diamonds you would not need to actually own a proper mine. A hole in the ground would do as long as it had the right paperwork and that is... not hard to obtain if you grease some palms.

The update say that you're wrong on that, we don't need a false mine, merely a hole in the ground.

Stop inventing problems that aren't there.
 
Worst case we can literally go into our parent's toolshed with a bag of coals and come out with diamonds, with only a bit of ominous green glowing in between.

But okay, if we do make a fake workshop, that's still cheaper and easier and more legal than a fake mine.
I assume that it wouldn't be too hard to transform a ton of metal junk from a junkyard into some electric/air powered heated presses with diamond tips that after a month of work can totally crystalize high purity carbon into a diamond around a diamond dust seed. Or some bullshit like that that is implausible but could only be disproved if we failed to produce results.
 
I assume that it wouldn't be too hard to transform a ton of metal junk from a junkyard into some electric/air powered heated presses with diamond tips that after a month of work can totally crystalize high purity carbon into a diamond around a diamond dust seed. Or some bullshit like that that is implausible but could only be disproved if we failed to produce results.

Except that's us using our AP to do it when the entire point of passing this to Thomas was that he could be the one to use his AP and work for us to cure his hunger at the same time, not really necessary.
 
[X] An innovative diamond creating start up, make high quality but obviously artificial diamonds
-[X] Set up a fake workshop than can be a plausible cover for the origin of our diamonds
 
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I assume that it wouldn't be too hard to transform a ton of metal junk from a junkyard into some electric/air powered heated presses with diamond tips that after a month of work can totally crystalize high purity carbon into a diamond around a diamond dust seed. Or some bullshit like that that is implausible but could only be disproved if we failed to produce results.
Toolshed production wise, the sonic cavitation method (literally a sonic emitter and a pot), and chemical vapor deposition of various kinds (the most simplistic being doable with a kitchen microwave and some ingenuity) would probably be the most believable ones.
 
Thomas can set up a fake workshop after the first few sales.
No need to waste AP.

It doesn't need to be plausible, just contain some random machinery.
 
Whatever we do, the end result only really needs to be something that will pass muster just one time without being able to implicate us in any sort of wrongdoing.

We're planning to win a large lottery in just a few months, so it shouldn't be difficult to use the profits from this one batch of diamonds to fund our various projects.
 
Legal troubles are not really something Infernal worry about

The Ebon Dragon

Unforgivable Wickedness Pardons

Cost: —; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Cracked Cell Circumvention

Not all Infernals can resist the allure of fame and celebrity. Those who do cultivate an uncanny talent for shaking off scandal, walking out of courts with nothing but a slap on the wrist and coming out of it even more beloved by the public. The Infernal may use Cracked Cell Circumvention to escape from legal or social sanction in addition to physical confinement, applying its usual benefits to any roll that would allow the Infernal to escape the legal consequences of a crime or any public outrage over his actions. If he were to run over an innocent pedestrian on a drug-fueled joy ride, he could avoid being convicted by using Cracked Cell Circumvention to enhance the (Charisma + Presence) roll to bribe the trial judge, then avoid public outcry by using it on a (Manipulation + Linguistics) roll to write a convincing online apology.
 
On the subject of possible investigations into our whatever. Endless Torment Emanation (a 3 dot Hell of Boiling Oil charm) allows us to target specific bureaucratic projects. "Invstigating Molly Carpenter's business", "making sure that Molly's Carpenter's business is up to safety regulations", "internal audits in regards to Molly Carpenter - related business" are all projects. ETE works as follows:
By interacting with one of its officers or agents, or
else touring its workplace, the Infernal directs the pow-
ers of Hell to confound and corrode the works of a bu-
reaucracy or project, cursing it to inefficiency and misery.
Tempers grow short, spirit-maggots eat important paper-
work when nobody's looking, and in general attempting
to get anything done becomes a sort of quiet torture.
System: The character can spend 3 Essence to tar-
get a specific office or project with terrible inefficiency
for the rest of the current story. Everyone involved in
pushing the project forward increases the difficulty of
all rolls to do so by +2. Additionally, if there's a cen-
tral location for the targeted bureau or project, it be-
comes a place of spiritual desolation while the Charm
remains in effect.
It's a +2 difficulty adjuster for an entire office, but only in regards to that specific project. And it makes said office (and any investigation is likely to have an office) a place of desolation. This means that actions taken to protect our employees from said place of desolation are taken at -3 difficulty. So, we have an easier time covering our tracks.

This leaves aside Subterfuge excellency which we already have.

Point is, if we spend effort, any mortal investigation is not likely to get us at all.
Legal troubles are not really something Infernal worry about

The Ebon Dragon

Unforgivable Wickedness Pardons

Cost: —; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Cracked Cell Circumvention

Not all Infernals can resist the allure of fame and celebrity. Those who do cultivate an uncanny talent for shaking off scandal, walking out of courts with nothing but a slap on the wrist and coming out of it even more beloved by the public. The Infernal may use Cracked Cell Circumvention to escape from legal or social sanction in addition to physical confinement, applying its usual benefits to any roll that would allow the Infernal to escape the legal consequences of a crime or any public outrage over his actions. If he were to run over an innocent pedestrian on a drug-fueled joy ride, he could avoid being convicted by using Cracked Cell Circumvention to enhance the (Charisma + Presence) roll to bribe the trial judge, then avoid public outcry by using it on a (Manipulation + Linguistics) roll to write a convincing online apology.
That's not a core ExvsWoD charm, and we are currently limited to those, however.
 
Looking into this a bit more deeply, I wonder if we can make various kinds of artificial diamonds that are currently impossible to manufacture at scale outside the lab that have very useful engineering properties.

Things like large single crystal diamond semiconductors or conductors in tailored shapes, or other more interesting devices such as single crystal diamond transistors that includes regions of n doped, p doped, electrically conductive and electrically insulating diamond to produce a a very dense very strong, chemically inert, very thermos table and easy to drain heat from chip.

They'd be very low volume production but could well be incredibly valuable in niche uses.
 
Looking into this a bit more deeply, I wonder if we can make various kinds of artificial diamonds that are currently impossible to manufacture at scale outside the lab that have very useful engineering properties.

Things like large single crystal diamond semiconductors or conductors in tailored shapes, or other more interesting devices such as single crystal diamond transistors that includes regions of n doped, p doped, electrically conductive and electrically insulating diamond to produce a a very dense very strong, chemically inert, very thermos table and easy to drain heat from chip.

They'd be very low volume production but could well be incredibly valuable in niche uses.

If it is something current tech can do with the limitations being energy or precision you can. Your energy is 'the god-killing superweapon strapped to Molly's soul' and precision just means successes. You can get a lot more of them than the natural cap.
 
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Looking into this a bit more deeply, I wonder if we can make various kinds of artificial diamonds that are currently impossible to manufacture at scale outside the lab that have very useful engineering properties.

Things like large single crystal diamond semiconductors or conductors in tailored shapes, or other more interesting devices such as single crystal diamond transistors that includes regions of n doped, p doped, electrically conductive and electrically insulating diamond to produce a a very dense very strong, chemically inert, very thermos table and easy to drain heat from chip.

They'd be very low volume production but could well be incredibly valuable in niche uses.
Well, yes, artificial diamonds have a lot of applications in engineering. You could in principle grow a whole computer out of diamond (as in a single solid object). We'd probably need technology 5 and an excellency for the design, though.

EDIT:
To expand on this:
You grow the casing out of diamond. It works as a mechanical support / protection, electrical insulator and heat dissipation. You make the wires inside by transforming parts of the diamond into coal / carbon / soot / nanotubes. You use doped diamonds for different types of transistors to create logic gates. The only thing you can't super easily make out of the same solid block of diamond is a touchscreen. Everything else can be done.

We could probably flex with this if we go hightech. Also, if we make that as a memorial diamond, Lydia could animate it with her Command the Dead, probably.
 
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Also, if we make that as a memorial diamond, Lydia could animate it with her Command the Dead, probably.
If we make a diamond computer it makes more sense to put a cyberdevil in it. What is a animal zombie going to know about being a computer? Or even most human zombies.
 
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Well, yes, artificial diamonds have a lot of applications in engineering. You could in principle grow a whole computer out of diamond (as in a single solid object). We'd probably need technology 5 and an excellency for the design, though.

EDIT:
To expand on this:
You grow the casing out of diamond. It works as a mechanical support / protection, electrical insulator and heat dissipation. You make the wires inside by transforming parts of the diamond into coal / carbon / soot / nanotubes. You use doped diamonds for different types of transistors to create logic gates. The only thing you can't super easily make out of the same solid block of diamond is a touchscreen. Everything else can be done.

We could probably flex with this if we go hightech. Also, if we make that as a memorial diamond, Lydia could animate it with her Command the Dead, probably.

You don't even need to transform part of the diamond into a nanotube. You can make electrically conductive diamond by putting sections of the crystal under high strain to deform the crystal lattice, reducing the band gap to zero so it conducts like a metal.
 
Toolshed production wise, the sonic cavitation method (literally a sonic emitter and a pot), and chemical vapor deposition of various kinds (the most simplistic being doable with a kitchen microwave and some ingenuity) would probably be the most believable ones.
Pretty sure the CVD process for synthetic diamonds involves messing with carbon plasma, so probably not a good plan to use that one.

That said, the other is sufficiently low energy to be handled without issue.

It also gives us an opportunity to tweak the lie into something less interesting.

Make the company one of those anonymous LLCs Uju32 brought up earlier and claim to be a small research lab working on ultrasonic synthetic diamond production and selling our lab samples to defray expenses.

Then we imply on paper that our process is low throughput and not commercially viable because it costs more to make a gem than it's actually worth. They're only on the market because we might as well sell the test runs after we're done with them.

Then we make a second small scale jewelry supply company and "sell" it gems from our lab, which it then sells to others. We have a plausible setup for paperwork purposes that doesn't encourage digging, and the reseller can shrug off questions about the details on the basis of their business of buying and selling gems, not making them. With only insistent questioning even getting that far.

The regulatory burden has been discussed to death, and at this point I'm willing to buy the idea that a small research lab working on minuscule runs of a generally known process that lacks any inherently dangerous steps is probably less intensely monitored than attempting to spoof gem shipments or pretending to revolutionize the industry.

At worst the paper thin mask of the reseller looks like some minor graft, and we won't be using either part for very long anyway.

Well, yes, artificial diamonds have a lot of applications in engineering. You could in principle grow a whole computer out of diamond (as in a single solid object). We'd probably need technology 5 and an excellency for the design, though.

EDIT:
To expand on this:
You grow the casing out of diamond. It works as a mechanical support / protection, electrical insulator and heat dissipation. You make the wires inside by transforming parts of the diamond into coal / carbon / soot / nanotubes. You use doped diamonds for different types of transistors to create logic gates. The only thing you can't super easily make out of the same solid block of diamond is a touchscreen. Everything else can be done.

We could probably flex with this if we go hightech. Also, if we make that as a memorial diamond, Lydia could animate it with her Command the Dead, probably.
More immediately, we could do some cool things with self-assembling nanoparticles.

Some basic examples have been made in labs since the 90s but power and precision are major issues with them. Lots of potential though everything from electronics to tank armor, though we're talking about a very broad category of material engineering.*

The basic premise, as described in those links, is to generate very small particles of shapes that cause them to self assemble into various useful structures, typically instigated by something like pressure or temperature changes. Not dynamically, or at least not necessarily dynamically, just as part of a 'curing' process.

Some stuff in the field is already in use at a relatively simplistic level, but I'm talking about playing with the sci-fi end goal of custom materials that self assemble into base materials with useful properties. Like armor plates shaped to maximize force diffusion at every measurable scale.
If we make a diamond computer it makes more sense to put a cyberdevil in it. What is a animal zombie going to know able being a computer? Or even most human zombies.
If it's possible it'd be neat to try it once, if only to see what happens if you try to make undead tamagotchi.

Plus Lydia's training charms might apply to it depending on if it still counts as being the see animal or not. Meaning we could put it in a robot and have her give it supernatural powers.

…Not sure why we'd need that over any other option, but we could always use it to mess with Harry so it wouldn't be a complete waste. :V
 
The problem is that actual machines need power to work. Alot of power so much power that creating artificial diamonds isn't nearly as profitable as you might expect. Also problems of having to watch the machines and deal with tonix buildups.
Its easier to hide the fact that we barely have a power bill than it is to hide the fact that we don't have a mine or a patent from De Beers. Hell, even with the power cost it would still make money to run conventional diamond making machines... if not very much. Basically just have it be another level of obfuscation.

[X] An innovative diamond creating start up, make high quality but obviously artificial diamonds
 
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Pretty sure the CVD process for synthetic diamonds involves messing with carbon plasma, so probably not a good plan to use that one.
Firstly, not really (normally, you would use methane as a working gas, some exotic setups instead sputter a solid carbon target, for example using DC magnetron sputtering). Even if so, not sure why that would be a problem? It's not like plasma is hard to make.
 
Legal troubles are not really something Infernal worry about

The Ebon Dragon

Unforgivable Wickedness Pardons

Cost: —; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Cracked Cell Circumvention

Not all Infernals can resist the allure of fame and celebrity. Those who do cultivate an uncanny talent for shaking off scandal, walking out of courts with nothing but a slap on the wrist and coming out of it even more beloved by the public. The Infernal may use Cracked Cell Circumvention to escape from legal or social sanction in addition to physical confinement, applying its usual benefits to any roll that would allow the Infernal to escape the legal consequences of a crime or any public outrage over his actions. If he were to run over an innocent pedestrian on a drug-fueled joy ride, he could avoid being convicted by using Cracked Cell Circumvention to enhance the (Charisma + Presence) roll to bribe the trial judge, then avoid public outcry by using it on a (Manipulation + Linguistics) roll to write a convincing online apology.
I am currently watching Total Drama and I am imagining that the Host Chris must have this charm. Or do you think this charm would not be enough?
 
Firstly, not really (normally, you would use methane as a working gas, some exotic setups instead sputter a solid carbon target, for example using DC magnetron sputtering). Even if so, not sure why that would be a problem? It's not like plasma is hard to make.
Fair enough, I'm not a material engineer I was just going off of stuff I found online related to this the other day.

As to why it would matter; same reasons the other process would. The more inherently dangerous the mechanism the more difficulty presented in every other step in the process involving other people. Because the damn NIMBYs would like to be sure our diamond making rig isn't actually an over engineered pipe bomb or 3000 degree oven that's a half step from burning down the building it's in.
 
As to why it would matter; same reasons the other process would. The more inherently dangerous the mechanism the more difficulty presented in every other step in the process involving other people. Because the damn NIMBYs would like to be sure our diamond making rig isn't actually an over engineered pipe bomb or 3000 degree oven that's a half step from burning down the building it's in.
The dangers involved would pretty much boil down to electrical dangers, and you'd be below 1 kV in most every process I can easily imagine (certainly below 10 kV), if we are talking low pressure processes.
 
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