Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
@DragonParadox does Maggot Mana Plague substitutes a WVampire's need to feed on lust/dispair/fear?
What about other supernaturals?
What about other supernaturals?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] Yog
It's established lore that exalted food feeds all types of hungry both mortal and supernatural. When it says it's enough to food you for a day it means it.
It's established lore that exalted food feeds all types of hungry both mortal and supernatural. When it says it's enough to food you for a day it means it.
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Yes it substitutes for any and all supernatural hungers, you just have to eat the maggots
Yes it substitutes for any and all supernatural hungers, you just have to eat the maggots
Probably an upgrade over this lots' usual fare
Well yes, but as you can imagine the likes of Lara is not of like mind.
You can eat them processed though, and a maggot smoothie is probably less disgusting than some health food.
Ghouls specifically can just eat regular food, and need much less to actually function than their cursed hunger drives them to eat.
White vampires can also apparently learn feeding techniques from across strains if they have a teacher and put in the effort. The skavis are the only variety that really need to though, since the others can do stuff like feed off consensual one night stands or in little bits off an entire crowd at a horror movie.
Even then depending on if they have to make the emotion worse to feed on it or not Skavis might be able to feed ethically by seeking out despairing people and helping them escape it. The natural empathy they have for the exact buttons to push for their feeding methods would be very helpful there.
All of this is something that can be done with effort, and would be an engaging part of the story to see happen. It's also arguably better for them since it's not just handed down from above.
We can work this sort of stuff without spending exp but we can't gain the ability to teleport across the country, see the regrets of heartless monsters, or damn interdimensional/global powers to paperwork hell, without spending on the charms to do it.
All charms are useful, but opportunity cost is a thing that matters to them. Demonstrating that they'll do something neat isn't the same as demonstrating they're a good purchase to make.
As to the loyalty stuff, the problem is that it's incredibly obvious. People get minor physical mutations and then start having so much difficulty arguing with us that they might as well not bother.
There's utility there, but it's the sort of thing that makes people avoid working for you or being under your power. It's like being a cult leader; the cultists do whatever you say, but the people who aren't already wrapped around your thumb will react negatively to it.
They'll also probably implicitly doubt everything they hear from your minions about you and your organization, even if what they're saying is entirely legitimate.
We can earn loyalty by being a good leader and having superhuman social skills, obvious mind control of most kinds is a trap option long term.
He doesn't know what an infernal is though, and archfiends don't generally get to wander freely in the mortal world for extended periods of time.
I get why he's concerned, but immediate confrontation and acting like he's already cornered is weird on this context. He has plenty of room to maneuver even if it will inevitably end in a fight.
Edit: typo
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Only if they eat only it for [stamina] weeks. Which seems unlikely unless we tell them to eat only maggots.
He is fluffing up his fur to look bigger. I bet he has a cat sized escape route nearby in case we don't back down.
There is no way we lose this as a fight. Not even if the Malk claws are ten fold adamant. I am just uncertain we can catch it if it runs.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I motion that from now on we call the food from Maggot Mana Plague 'Grub'. Technically accurate and much more PR friendly.Demon maggots... still you may be right about the health foods.
Many places in the world eat cooked grubs.
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As an aside, might be a good idea to modify this to use similar terms to our first meeting with Mouse
Not the same because we don't like this guy as much, he's the guest instead of us, and we want clear limits on any promise made to the fey, but if he thinks we're a demon using demon specific etiquette is probably a good plan.
He won't easily be convinced we're not, so deviations could easily be seen as attempts to leave exploitable loopholes.
Even if you disagree, I think adding limits on that guest right would be a good idea. Time at the very least, and an explicit understanding that his group won't simply attack while we're distracted and can't retaliate against him.
The implication was that we'd use it to replace their supernatural needs, and the person I was replying to was specifically advocating for the social benefits of using it.
It's also not clear what the cooldown timer is on the charm, though that's a somewhat distant concern here.
Even discounting that, we'd be paying in exp for the equivalent of a credit line at a costco. One with hard limits on it at that. I'd rather train a crack squad of ghoulish semi truck jackers or something than spend our own potential on stuff like this.
Fair enough on the escape route bit though. Not sure I buy it wholesale, but there is some risk management he would have had time to do already.
You could probably substitute grubs for chicken in whatever process McDonald's uses to make nuggets without anyone being able to tell the difference.
I'm still not enthused about the charm, but sating the unholy hungers of the creatures of darkness with happy meals - toy and all - would be pretty funny.
We kind of got that DPE aura going on. No need for academic knowledge to feel all that nastiness in the air. That was a thing even before DPE, even.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
For ghouls yes since they can eat other food if alot of it, but for Wvamps and many other kinds of minions that we hope to bind in the future it's basically required.
That should be making our social checks easier not harder.
Edit:
Um. If there is one Malk attracting our attention what are the chances that there is a pack of them sneaking up on us even as we speak? Now if we get our soak activated one or a dozen shouldn't matter, but if a dozen attack us from surprise before we get our soak up we might be in trouble. We would be forced to transform would would be kind of embarrassing.
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I addressed whamps already, and until we run into something that can't feed itself in an ethical way with some work they remain an empty hypothetical.
It isn't required for anything we're actually doing or have specific plans to do, just one potential end state of many that we might not even want.
I mean, we can only feed a limited number of people on the charm and it comes with obvious negative effects from the perspective of people who aren't us. So as we grow and diversify our minion base we will by necessity need to find a scalable way to solve this problem.
We might as well start on that instead of paying for a bandaid in our most critical resource.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
One use of this Charm summons enough maggots to feed (Essence x 100) people. So currently we could feel 2 hundred people for a week with one use of the charm assuming that they ate nothing else. By the time we start hitting any sort of limit we should have enough minions under our sway that we could take Chicago by force if we wanted to.
It seems unlikely that there even are more then 2000 human sized supernaturals in Chicago.
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lot of thing have requirements that only the charm could satisfy. As for scale tap a node and use the permanent version from exalted proper.
COMMENTARY
-Huh. 2/8 done?
We got a lot further here on our first attempt than I expected.
-Ah. Malks.
The other reason that came to mind when I asked for Mouse as an escort. Feline Hannibal Lecter, to quote Dresden.
Human smart, cat sneaky, with claws like surgical steel. And they roll around in packs of ~20.
"They're solitary," Gard continued in a voice made more terrible for its uninflected calm. "Most of the time, they abduct a victim, rape her, rip her to shreds, and eat her. This one has more in mind. There's something in mead that makes the grendelkin fertile. It's going to impregnate her. Create another of its kind."
A thought occurred to me. "That's what kind of person still has her instructions taped to her birth control medication. Someone who's never taken it until very recently."
"She's a virgin," Gard confirmed. "Grendelkin need virgins to reproduce."
"Kind of a scarce commodity these days," I said.
Gard snapped out a bitter bark of laughter. "Take it from me, Dresden. Teenagers have always been teenagers. Hormone-ridden, curious, and generally ignorant of the consequences of their actions. There's never been a glut on the virgin market. Not in Victorian times, not during the Renaissance, not at Hastings, and not now. But even if they were ten times as rare in the modern age, there would still be more virgins to choose from than at any other point in history." She shook her head. "There are so many people, now."
We walked along for several paces.
"Interesting inflection, there," I said. "Speaking about those times as if you'd seen them firsthand. You expect me to believe you're better than a thousand years old?"
"Would it be so incredible?" she asked.
She had me there. Lots of supernatural critters were immortal, or the next-best thing to it. Even mortal wizards could hang around for three or four centuries. On the other hand, I'd rarely run into an immortal who felt so human to my wizard's senses.
I stared at her for a second and then said, "You wear it pretty well, if it's true. I would have guessed you were about thirty."
Her teeth flashed in the dim light. "I believe it's currently considered more polite to guess twenty-nine."
"Me and polite have never been on close terms."
Gard nodded. "I like that about you. You say what you think. You act. It's rare in this age."
I kept on the trail, quiet for a time, until Mouse stopped in his tracks and made an almost inaudible sound in his chest. I held up a hand, halting. Gard went silent and still.
I knelt down by the dog and whispered, "What is it, boy?"
Mouse stared intently ahead, his nose quivering. Then he paced forward, uncertainly, and pawed at the floor near the wall.
I followed him, light in hand. On the wet stone floor were a few tufts of greyish hair. I chewed my lip and lifted the light to examine the wall. There were long scratches in the stone—not much wider than a thumbnail, but they were deep. You couldn't easily see the bottom of the scratch marks.
Gard came up and peered over my shoulder. Amid the scents of lime and mildew, her perfume, something floral I didn't recognize, was a pleasant distraction. "Something sharp made those," she murmured.
"Yeah," I said, collecting the hairs. "Hold up your ax."
She did. I touched the hairs to the edge of the blade. They curled away from it as they touched it, blackening and shriveling, and adding the scent of burned hair to the mix.
"Wonderful." I sighed.
Gard lifted her eyebrows and glanced at me. "Faeries?"
I nodded. "Malks, almost certainly."
"Malks?"
"Winterfae," I said. "Felines. About the size of a bobcat."
"Nothing steel can't handle, then," she said, rising briskly.
"Yeah," I said. "You could probably handle half a dozen."
She nodded once, brandished the ax, and turned to continue down the tunnel.
"Which is why they tend to run in packs of twenty," I added, a couple of steps later.
Gard stopped and gave me a glare.
"That's called sharing information," I said. I gestured at the wall. "These are territorial markings for the local pack. Malks are stronger than natural animals, quick, almost invisible when they want to be, and their claws are sharper and harder than surgical steel. I once saw a malk shred an aluminum baseball bat to slivers. And if that wasn't enough, they're sentient. Smarter than some people I know."
"Od's bodkin," Gard swore quietly. "Can you handle them?"
"They don't like fire," I said. "But in an enclosed space like this, I don't like it much, either."
Gard nodded once. "Can we treat with them?" she asked. "Buy passage?"
"They'll keep their word, like any fae," I said. "If you can get them to give it in the first place. But think of how cats enjoy hunting, even when they aren't hungry. Think about how they toy with their prey sometimes. Then distill that joyful little killer instinct out of every cat in Chicago and pour it all into one malk. They're to cats what Hannibal Lecter is to people."
A thought occurred to me. "That's what kind of person still has her instructions taped to her birth control medication. Someone who's never taken it until very recently."
"She's a virgin," Gard confirmed. "Grendelkin need virgins to reproduce."
"Kind of a scarce commodity these days," I said.
Gard snapped out a bitter bark of laughter. "Take it from me, Dresden. Teenagers have always been teenagers. Hormone-ridden, curious, and generally ignorant of the consequences of their actions. There's never been a glut on the virgin market. Not in Victorian times, not during the Renaissance, not at Hastings, and not now. But even if they were ten times as rare in the modern age, there would still be more virgins to choose from than at any other point in history." She shook her head. "There are so many people, now."
We walked along for several paces.
"Interesting inflection, there," I said. "Speaking about those times as if you'd seen them firsthand. You expect me to believe you're better than a thousand years old?"
"Would it be so incredible?" she asked.
She had me there. Lots of supernatural critters were immortal, or the next-best thing to it. Even mortal wizards could hang around for three or four centuries. On the other hand, I'd rarely run into an immortal who felt so human to my wizard's senses.
I stared at her for a second and then said, "You wear it pretty well, if it's true. I would have guessed you were about thirty."
Her teeth flashed in the dim light. "I believe it's currently considered more polite to guess twenty-nine."
"Me and polite have never been on close terms."
Gard nodded. "I like that about you. You say what you think. You act. It's rare in this age."
I kept on the trail, quiet for a time, until Mouse stopped in his tracks and made an almost inaudible sound in his chest. I held up a hand, halting. Gard went silent and still.
I knelt down by the dog and whispered, "What is it, boy?"
Mouse stared intently ahead, his nose quivering. Then he paced forward, uncertainly, and pawed at the floor near the wall.
I followed him, light in hand. On the wet stone floor were a few tufts of greyish hair. I chewed my lip and lifted the light to examine the wall. There were long scratches in the stone—not much wider than a thumbnail, but they were deep. You couldn't easily see the bottom of the scratch marks.
Gard came up and peered over my shoulder. Amid the scents of lime and mildew, her perfume, something floral I didn't recognize, was a pleasant distraction. "Something sharp made those," she murmured.
"Yeah," I said, collecting the hairs. "Hold up your ax."
She did. I touched the hairs to the edge of the blade. They curled away from it as they touched it, blackening and shriveling, and adding the scent of burned hair to the mix.
"Wonderful." I sighed.
Gard lifted her eyebrows and glanced at me. "Faeries?"
I nodded. "Malks, almost certainly."
"Malks?"
"Winterfae," I said. "Felines. About the size of a bobcat."
"Nothing steel can't handle, then," she said, rising briskly.
"Yeah," I said. "You could probably handle half a dozen."
She nodded once, brandished the ax, and turned to continue down the tunnel.
"Which is why they tend to run in packs of twenty," I added, a couple of steps later.
Gard stopped and gave me a glare.
"That's called sharing information," I said. I gestured at the wall. "These are territorial markings for the local pack. Malks are stronger than natural animals, quick, almost invisible when they want to be, and their claws are sharper and harder than surgical steel. I once saw a malk shred an aluminum baseball bat to slivers. And if that wasn't enough, they're sentient. Smarter than some people I know."
"Od's bodkin," Gard swore quietly. "Can you handle them?"
"They don't like fire," I said. "But in an enclosed space like this, I don't like it much, either."
Gard nodded once. "Can we treat with them?" she asked. "Buy passage?"
"They'll keep their word, like any fae," I said. "If you can get them to give it in the first place. But think of how cats enjoy hunting, even when they aren't hungry. Think about how they toy with their prey sometimes. Then distill that joyful little killer instinct out of every cat in Chicago and pour it all into one malk. They're to cats what Hannibal Lecter is to people."
So they are here for other reasons. Probably with regards to passage.
Our Enemy 1(Winter) rating is going to make this a little tricky.
-Hmm:
Adult malks are canonically around the size of a bobcat. 14 to 40 pounds normal range, with outliers in the 60 pound range.
Going to note that we currently overpower them pretty handily.
Now we have VLE, Molly alone could take a full pack without going into shintai, possibly without even sustaining injury. But she is backed up by another Exalt, a Temple Dog, a heroic mortal wielding steel, and nine ghouls.
Hell, there's a good chance they couldnt take the ghoul gang anyway, because if they could the Jade Dogs would probably be dead.
Malks are at least as bloodthirsty as cats after all.
They are here to negotiate. Possibly scout for someone or something else, but certainly negotiate.
-I get the impression they dont know Porter is here.
If he hasnt seen it fit to advertise his presence to them, we should probably not mention it either.
Fantastic rolls.
Thats probably because it is cornered.
Last Station is a proto-Dragons Nest, and one with thematic associations of travel and transport.
There's pretty good odds that this is the local Way gate/crossing-over point that it and its packmates use to travel to and from the Winter portions of Faerie to their territories here.
When it was just the ghouls, good chance that even though they couldnt actually kill or drive them off, they could come and go unimpeded; they have godly stealth. And Porter almost certainly never made himself known to them, or bothered to interfere.
An apparent hell-lord moving in is a very different kettle of fish.
Hence the confrontation.
When we're small enough to be limited to the Chicago area it's largely pointless because the people we're recruiting can feed easily in other ways. Once we're big enough to catch the variety of minions that legitimately can't well be operating at a scale that puts us on a trajectory to exceed the limit.
Even discarding that, obvious mental influences make people upset. -3 difficulty is significant, and obviously kicks in with the mutations. The reputation hit isn't worth it.
We could theoretically cut the food supply with other stuff to avoid the effect, but at that point we're paying in exp to reduce our food budget requirements. Something that will become less and less valuable as we expand.
Best case scenario, it's a niche tool that's only really needed for a minority of minions we probably won't even have the opportunity to acquire for a significant amount of IC time.
Has that ever been an option? "Just homebrew a solution" can be used to hand wave away any complication, it isn't really an argument for any one approach.
If that's the case then they may be afraid that the presence of an archdevil will change where in the Nevernever the Way opens to. The Malks don't want it to lead to, say, Kakuri rather than Winter's territory.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
It's actually only a minus 1 in difficulty. Small, but still nice because it stacks.
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We could ask Porter about it. While he doesn't seem to be the most aware spirit out there, he should still be aware if his lair is commonly used to open paths to NeverNever.
Plus, I doubt that it's the only Way point in the Underground.
- Location
- Brazil
I was also talking about using MMP only when we need the help of our minions' supernatural abilities, filling their tanks, using MMP to feed all that time is a waste of Essence. And that charm consequences could also be used instead of just a demetrius.
Actually I just want it because Mis+MMP+IPC is the most efficient way to train servants and missing a part of it, doing inefficient things on purpose, leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
Precisely.
As he said, if we need to feed so many people with MMP, we can already take at least one big city by force.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I don't actually want to waste a essence on social with the Malk. I kind of agree with it that we are about to fight and would like to have as much essance in the tank as possible.
We don't have any hock currently to get Malk to become our minions. In fact I don't know of any hock we could get. The problem with Malk is that they are cruel by choice rather than any nessacry. I don't feel much problem with killing them all and feeding the bodies to the ghouls.
We don't have any hock currently to get Malk to become our minions. In fact I don't know of any hock we could get. The problem with Malk is that they are cruel by choice rather than any nessacry. I don't feel much problem with killing them all and feeding the bodies to the ghouls.
I'm talking about the post transformation effect.
Using it to fill up minion gas tanks still requires us to figure out how to feed them on the regular, making it redundant from the moment of purchase instead of simply something with a utility shelf life.
As to minion training and efficiency; context is important. Stacking numbers is something, but Molly doesn't live in a shack at the edge of the woods. The world she operates in will react to her actions, and fully using the abilities you're talking about will have a cost associated with it beyond the obvious.
Making any significant number of our minions look like they have a maggot for a grandfather and obvious marks of magical mental influence isn't good for our ability to cooperate with other people. It flags us as something like the pathfinders, and that's the sort of rep that's difficult to shake off even if it's not true.
Efficiency in a vacuum that turns into an impediment in practice isn't actually efficient.
That doesn't even get into how Molly or her family would feel about it.
Being a (supernaturally) good leader with the ability to give people what they want at a price they're willing to pay is more effective in a number of ways, especially because we'd be one of the few on the market who doesn't do stuff like drug you or mutilate your soul as a matter of course.
Add to that the opportunity cost of other build choices and the limits of the charms and it becomes even less attractive.
If your ambition ends at being the dread ruler of Cleveland's supernatural underground and the stompy monster of the week for an intrepid hero it's great. Not so much outside of that.