Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

If that's the case then they may be afraid that the presence of an archdevil will change where in the Nevernever the Way opens to. The Malks don't want it to lead to, say, Kakuri rather than Winter's territory.
Possible.

I dont think its likely though, because while the Ways do change, they dont appear have anything to do with directed engineering.
Besides, if they thought Molly had the mystical mojo to perform that sort of largescale magical engineering, I suspect they'd be a lot more polite. Probably wouldnt have even shown up; just hidden until we left.

Of course, crossover. Mechanics may vary.
We could ask Porter about it. While he doesn't seem to be the most aware spirit out there, he should still be aware if his lair is commonly used to open paths to NeverNever.
Plus, I doubt that it's the only Way point in the Underground.
Porter sleeps a lot of the time.
Only Waygate in the Undertown that leads to the NeverNever? Maybe not. The NeverNever is huge, and Faerie is only a part.
Only Waygate that isnt already claimed? Only Waygate that leads to Winter?

Waygates to Summer aint gonna do malks much good.
Hell, Waygates to parts of Winter that malks would prefer to avoid are useless to them as well; putting malks in spider territory doesnt help them.
 
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Possible.

I dont think its likely though, because while the Ways do change, they dont appear have anything to do with directed engineering.
Besides, if they thought Molly had the mystical mojo to perform that sort of largescale magical engineering, I suspect they'd be a lot more polite. Probably wouldnt have even shown up; just hidden until we left.

Of course, crossover. Mechanics may vary.

Where a Nevernever Way opens to in the Dresden-verse depends on the character of the place in the real world. Molly has totally transformed the character of the place, turning it from a place of cold, hunger and desperation, to one where an archdevil gives her new thralls hope of mercy being granted in servitude to her.

That's very different thematic associations, and not one that would take you to Winter's domain.
 
[x] Yog

That said, we do not know for certain how many of them there are, nor what, if any, backup they may have. We may be an Exalt, yes, but a) we're also halfway to being mote-tapped, b) there's only three of us against who knows how many enemies, and c) we can't rule out the possibility that this may be a trap of some form.
 
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Cheaper isn't always better, though, and VEE can accomplish a lot more than simple minion empowerment.

I know there's no hurry on getting it, though. Too many more important XP expenditures to take care of first.
A single wish of respawning food can probably feed like near 100 ghouls permanently as long as someone is constantly serving the respawning food. Mind you it'd take more to feed an army we can easily do that though. I remember dp saying we could do that for wyld fae.
 
A single wish of respawning food can probably feed like near 100 ghouls permanently as long as someone is constantly serving the respawning food. Mind you it'd take more to feed an army we can easily do that though. I remember dp saying we could do that for wyld fae.
That wouldn't feed any vampires that we want to get for minions though and we are going to want to get more vampire minions.
 
They would if that pack member was a distraction with an escape route mapped out.
1)What escape route? They are stealthy, not invisible, not in light.
Cat Sith may be able to teleport, but these cant.

2)Distraction for what?
There's 2x Exalts, a Temple Dog, nine ghouls and a heroic mortal here.
Malks try to avoid jumping wizards who are aware of them.

They arent going to warn a hell lord they are here, and then start a fight.
Where a Nevernever Way opens to in the Dresden-verse depends on the character of the place in the real world. Molly has totally transformed the character of the place, turning it from a place of cold, hunger and desperation, to one where an archdevil gives her new thralls hope of mercy being granted in servitude to her.

That's very different thematic associations, and not one that would take you to Winter's domain.
1)The current character of the place in the real world is only one factor.
There is no thematic reason why the Way between Chicago and Edinburgh should open behind an old meatpacking factory, for instance.

2)Yes, I do agree that the real world to NeverNever correspondence of places can and do change.

However. There is no textev that Ways and Waygates are subject to the same limitations as far as I know.
The only commentary I recall on Ways was back in Changes, and that they do change, but not on any sorta known schedule or with any sort of correlation known to anyone.

Else Maggie LeFay's jewel-map of the Ways and Waygates would have been hopelessly obsolete by the time it fell into Harry Dresden's hands 35 years after her death, and more than four decades after she did any serious updating.

Furthermore, we know Way nexuses do not appear to change.
The Hidden Halls of Edinburgh sit on one, and went from a Sidhe stronghold to White Council HQ and has stayed that way for five hundred years even as the city above it has changed drastically.

Hell, Chicago has been important as a crossroads since before Chicago was even a city.
 
That wouldn't feed any vampires that we want to get for minions though and we are going to want to get more vampire minions.
I'm not saying it would? But, if food, clothing, basic resources are the concern then said power works just fine. Cast that a few dozen times with similar wishes and you could do it for an army. Though you've also now got dozens of respawning items such as infinite clothes, pizza that respawns when empty, toiletries etc etc. it's not a fix for everything obviously it is helpful though. Can even help somewhat with housing though only tangentially like changing the interior of something I think was mentioned being possible.
 
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1)What escape route? They are stealthy, not invisible, not in light.
Cat Sith may be able to teleport, but these cant.

2)Distraction for what?
There's 2x Exalts, a Temple Dog, nine ghouls and a heroic mortal here.
Malks try to avoid jumping wizards who are aware of them.

They arent going to warn a hell lord they are here, and then start a fight.

1)The current character of the place in the real world is only one factor.
There is no thematic reason why the Way between Chicago and Edinburgh should open behind an old meatpacking factory, for instance.

2)Yes, I do agree that the real world to NeverNever correspondence of places can and do change.

However. There is no textev that Ways and Waygates are subject to the same limitations as far as I know.
The only commentary I recall on Ways was back in Changes, and that they do change, but not on any sorta known schedule or with any sort of correlation known to anyone.

Else Maggie LeFay's jewel-map of the Ways and Waygates would have been hopelessly obsolete by the time it fell into Harry Dresden's hands 35 years after her death, and more than four decades after she did any serious updating.

Furthermore, we know Way nexuses do not appear to change.
The Hidden Halls of Edinburgh sit on one, and went from a Sidhe stronghold to White Council HQ and has stayed that way for five hundred years even as the city above it has changed drastically.

Hell, Chicago has been important as a crossroads since before Chicago was even a city.
In fairness, he is being pretty aggressive for a guy who walked up to the concentration of force you're describing.

The malk almost has to have something going for him to even bother; it might not actually be as effective as he's hoping, but what would be the point otherwise?

If he's not in his own estimation capable of fighting or fleeing then showing up to talk shit to our face is dumb. The only route to success he'd have is to bluff us into submission.
 
There are several factors that haven't been brought up in the discussion yet:
1) We have a 1 dot enemy in Winter Court Fae. It's quite possibly that narratively this translates to them disliking us
2) We are assuming that this malk is smart and can judge his chances against us. That's not a given.
 
There are several factors that haven't been brought up in the discussion yet:
1) We have a 1 dot enemy in Winter Court Fae. It's quite possibly that narratively this translates to them disliking us
2) We are assuming that this malk is smart and can judge his chances against us. That's not a given.
Him not liking us makes sense, and I'm interested in learning more about what that dot means in terms of Molly's rep, but I'd still assume the malk isn't likely to fly off the handle over a single dot organizational enemy.

His judgment is unlikely to be perfect, or particularly well informed, but he does appear to be an older fey predator who's got some sort of local influence.

He lives in the undertown, so he probably isn't that big a deal, but he'd also probably have died if he was completely incompetent.

Walking up to what he thinks is a higher order fiend, a demigod, and a backup squad of ghouls to deliver the fey equivalent of "get the fuck out of my tunnels you skanky two faced banshee" with no plan whatsoever would be pretty dumb.
 
In fairness, he is being pretty aggressive for a guy who walked up to the concentration of force you're describing.
The malk almost has to have something going for him to even bother; it might not actually be as effective as he's hoping, but what would be the point otherwise?

If he's not in his own estimation capable of fighting or fleeing then showing up to talk shit to our face is dumb. The only route to success he'd have is to bluff us into submission.
Just means he's desperate. I quote:
The feline before you is very very still save only for the lashing of its scruffy tail, but more than that, the way it follows the movement of your hands rather than look in your eyes, it is ready for a fight. Why? Because it thinks it has no choice, its back against the wall in some way.
We rolled six successes on Social Perception.
Literally Legendary success levels on reading its motives here.

We could burn an Essence for Crown use.
But we already have a good idea why its behaving the way it is.

Also worth noting that we rolled 6 out of 10 on our encounter roll.
This is not Maeve or Nemesis attempting to work through a catspaw
There are several factors that haven't been brought up in the discussion yet:
1) We have a 1 dot enemy in Winter Court Fae. It's quite possibly that narratively this translates to them disliking us
2) We are assuming that this malk is smart and can judge his chances against us. That's not a given.
1)Priced in already.

2) Thats already demonstrated.
Because if he couldnt judge his chances. he and his pack would have just launched a surprise attack.

Malks almost never do diplomacy that I recall.
The fact that it, a member of a predator species that prefers surprise attacks and ambushes, is out here in the open talking is prima facie evidence that it and the other members of its pack consider the correlation of force to be adverse.
 
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I'm not exactly a cat person, but I wouldn't mind getting our own Malk minion, if we can swing that. He could probably pass as a main coon among the muggles, assuming he can be convinced to pretend to be a lesser creature.

Not sure how feasible this would be, though, since cats are generally assholes and Malks seem to have that dialed up to about 13 or so. Not to mention the Winter Fey thing...
 
Just means he's desperate. I quote:
I saw it the first time, the disconnect is on how he'd react.

Even a desperation play should have some rationale to it.

Step one is popping up, insulting the arch fiend, and telling her to beat feet. Step two should obviously have something for when she says no.

It doesn't have to be a good something, but a play that he doesn't even believe will change anything is a waste of time. Why would anyone bank on a demon meekly screwing off?

Desperation can make for some stupid decisions, but he's not a panicky teenager who just saw a vampire get serious for the first time; some basic level of "and then what" planning should be in play.
 
Also worth noting that we rolled 6 out of 10 on our encounter roll.
This is not Maeve or Nemesis attempting to work through a catspaw
Do we know that for sure though?

Also, for that matter,
I can answer that, getting to him would be precisely as hard as getting to Molly, which is to say 'you can sell your soul but it cannot be taken'.

We already do know that Nemesis doesn't play by normal DF rules. Why should we assume that it plays by Exalt rules either? For all we know, Nemesis could have a means to bypass our Perfect mental defenses.
IIRC there are some things in certain versions of Exalted that can supersede Perfect defenses?
 
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We already do know that Nemesis doesn't play by normal DF rules. Why should we assume that it plays by Exalt rules either? For all we know, Nemesis could have a means to bypass our Perfect mental defenses.
IIRC there are some things in certain versions of Exalted that can supersede Perfect defenses?
You're literally quoting DP answering OOC that nemesis can't do that though?

We also have another OOC comment that implies that nemesis can't lol nope exalted abilities:
Technically yes, but it would require insight into what the thing is far beyond just knowing it exists. You would have to understand what a Nemesis is as the outsiders do. I do not want to say that is impossible because hey you are an infernal exalted, you can become the kind of being for whom Nemesis is a light snack, but it is not practical in the short to mid term, targeting a body is your best bet.


My understanding of the situation with perfect defenses is that the few mechanics for defeating them are the most hated elements of the franchise, and don't exist in the version used in ExWoD. It does have some perfect defense piercing abilities, but they exclusively apply to physical defenses.

Until we have some reason to believe otherwise freaking out about the possibility of mind control is counterproductive paranoia.
 
Votes as they stand.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Dec 17, 2022 at 11:31 PM, finished with 67 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X] Ask why it had called you false when you had not spoken a single word yet
    -[X] Etiquette excellency and intimidation excellency
    -[X] Stunt: Once again you draw upon the memories of your encounter with Winter's Queen. You posture shifts slightly, becoming more regal, even as the aura of frost sweeps across the tunnel. Carefully modulating your voice and choosing your words, you speak, offering advice and asking a question in equal measure, lest there is debt created between you and this fae: "Be careful, little hunter, when accusing others of falsehoods unearned or making demands in the territory of others. Some would take offence, unless swift is your explanation and wise are your words. "
    [X] Fairy kind, bound by rules and bindings. You've obviously hit something that makes them feel like you're about to play exterminator. You need to de-escalate so diplomacy has a chance.
    -[X] Etiquette excellency
    -[X] Make a show that you have no weapons bared and no intent on violence, as paltry as that is at the moment. "In the interest of peace, I would offer you a place at my table as a guest and promise that no harm shall come to you should you direct no harm to me and mine." Offer him guest right and protection while under your banner, and in turn gather information.
 
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