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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.
 
[X] A different kind of intimidation for a different kind of man (Charisma + Occult)
-[X] Scoff at the ignorance of a Necromancer thinking that he deserves rest in death. You can promise him a life after death, though it will not be a pleasant one. Describe the darkness and cold of Kakuri while leaning close enough that he can feel the chill of your body.
-[X] Do directly state that you can send him there, just in case he mistakes you for some kind of fey and thinks you can't lie.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I'd argue that manipulating our Charms in any way (by making walking-speed Charms apply to it) is stretching things out quite a bit.
It would propably easier from our side to invent a variant on an existing Charm than to get a gadget to manipulate the expression of our power.
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IIRC, Exalted mobility charms have always potentially affected personal transportation unless the charms specifies otherwise.
Its much the same reason you can channel attack charms through your vehicle if you use it to ram an enemy, like for example a Solar Heaven Thunder Hammering some poor schmuck by driving into them.
 
DragonParadox said:
A Brazen Shield
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-Yay stunting!
This may be Chicago, but unless the shooter was using a silencer, we have to count down before the cops show up in the area.
He was probably using a silencer though.

-Kemmlerite confirmed.
That means he knows damn well what happened here in Chicago last Halloween. And it confirms why he wants the bones of the Honored Dead. Opportunity for Molly to pick up a fair bit of recent occult knowledge on both Kemmler, the Darkhallow and WW2.

-Loling at the monk trying to talk to Mouse.

-Gorefels own people just tried to kill him.
Regardless of the front he's putting up, that has to be a shock for a dude who's survived the purges of the post WW2 era.I suspect that hitting his Empathy has a lower DC than it would normally be.

Plus, there's always the potential for a little backstabbing out of spite.

Though it would be fun to threaten this dude with being turned into soulsteel, that would expose too many secrets in front of monks Molly doesnt know that well. And the alternative of talking about what its like to hang undying on a tree in the heart of the NeverWinter at the mercy of its denizens will do collateral damage on Michael and Harry.

We dont know enough about the Yomi Kings to talk convincingly about them...
DragonParadox said:
What do you do?

[] Try to threaten (Charisma+Intimidation)
-[] Write in how
[] Try to bargain (Charisma+Empathy)
-[] Write in how
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Charisma + Intimidation = 7 dice.
Charisma + Empathy = 6 dice
Charisma + Occult = 8 dice.
Manipulation + Subterfuge = 6 dice.

Looking at the last set of rolls, Gorefels is 8 Willpower. We need to burn an Excellency to have any chance of beating his roll.
Either Cha + Occult or Cha + Intimidation will give us the biggest dice pools, but I suspect that the DC on geting him to boast about his importance, aims and accomplishments is lower.

VOTE
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.

Burn 1 Essence for an Excellency. 2 Excellency * (Manipulation + Subterfuge 6) + 2 Stunt - 1 Wound Penalty = 13 dice.
While Cha+Intimidation(15 dice with an Excellency and stunt) or Cha+Occult(17 dice with an Excellency and stunt) would give us a bigger dice pool, Man+Empathy seems more appropriate to the situation. Which should translate to lower DCs.

Also, better roleplaying, and exposes fewer secrets.
 
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.
 
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.

Kakuri is fine and all, but I want to hear the rant.

Edit: manipulated into mansplaining maledictions
 
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[X] Try to threaten (Charisma+Intimidation)
-[X] The crown upon your brow illuminates his face and the knowledge of his most guarded and shameful secret is whispered into your ears. From there, it isn't hard to make him believe that you already know him, have seen his very soul and more yet, beyond the powers of true sight and soulgaze. It is in his reason to speak, to tell you and your companions what he knows, to save you time and a bit of effort. He wants to cooperate with you, and even the soon-to-come judgment of the White Council is not something to run away from, when the alternative is you, peeling him open layer by layer, taking into your possession what he may only dream to take into his grave.

Basically, the idea is to use our Crown to learn his most hidden and dirty secret, then reveal it to him. From there, either intimidate him through the demonstration of this power and your hellish nature, or trick him into believing that you know everything already. Either is ok. The stunt ran away from me, but I think someone can make something out of the idea.
 
uju32 said:
Charisma + Intimidation = 7 dice.
Charisma + Empathy = 6 dice
Charisma + Occult = 8 dice.
Manipulation + Subterfuge = 6 dice.

Looking at the last set of rolls, Gorefels is 8 Willpower. We need to burn an Excellency to have any chance of beating his roll.
Either Cha + Occult or Cha + Intimidation will give us the biggest dice pools, but I suspect that the DC on geting him to boast about his importance, aims and accomplishments is lower.
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With Kakuri-Specialty from our demonic guide our Occult is 1 higher.

uju32 said:
Though it would be fun to threaten this dude with being turned into soulsteel, that would expose too many secrets in front of monks Molly doesnt know that well. And the alternative of talking about what its like to hang undying on a tree in the heart of the NeverWinter at the mercy of its denizens will do collateral damage on Michael and Harry.

We dont know enough about the Yomi Kings to talk convincingly about them...
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I don't think talking about the eastern hells reveals anything, except that we know about them.
The monks won't get anything useful from that, they have no idea how young we are and that we really shouldn't know anything about asian underworlds.
 
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
You can't silence a rifle round. You can muffle a handgun, but even that is hard to do.
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in fairness while dresden is usually pretty realistic as far as tech goes they could always have something relatively more advanced or rpg mechanics take place? Your probably right though and cops are coming.
Yog said:
[X] Try to threaten (Charisma+Intimidation)
-[X] The crown upon your brow illuminates his face and the knowledge of his most guarded and shameful secret is whispered into your ears. From there, it isn't hard to make him believe that you already know him, have seen his very soul and more yet, beyond the powers of true sight and soulgaze. It is in his reason to speak, to tell you and your companions what he knows, to save you time and a bit of effort. He wants to cooperate with you, and even the soon-to-come judgment of the White Council is not something to run away from, when the alternative is you, peeling him open layer by layer, taking into your possession what he may only dream to take into his grave.

Basically, the idea is to use our Crown to learn his most hidden and dirty secret, then reveal it to him. From there, either intimidate him through the demonstration of this power and your hellish nature, or trick him into believing that you know everything already. Either is ok. The stunt ran away from me, but I think someone can make something out of the idea.
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can't we get secrets instead of just secret my thought is we can only ask one thing we can get much info from it though right?
 
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[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.
 
"Silencer" is a misleading name. "Not-injure-ears-er" is more accurate. ;) The shot is still really loud, but not painfully so. More advanced silencers are physically constrained by the fact there's an explosion and a sonic boom happening,

[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.

Artemis1992 said:
Um, maybe we should not threaten to mess with Souls via hellish powers with a white council wizard and knight of the cross in the room? Esspecially if were trying to convince them were not about to fall off the sliperry slope?
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We are threatening a Nazi. (Nazi, Necromancer, Kemmlerite, Warlock and wannabe-puppetmaster who send people to their death against a knight of the Cross)

Anything goes for that.
Besides dad will trust us if we tell him that we can't actually do that.
As for wanting to do it, I strongly suspect that from a christian perspective he will go to hell if we kill him now, does it matter which one?
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I would like to try to answer or at least discuss this in some detail, because this is a tricky question that gets into both Christian theology and the weird Dresden Files setting alterations, where Jim Butcher sometimes can't make up his mind about how it works and there's continuity drift. :p

1. Christianity teaches that the Creator gets final judgment on everyone. No matter what you believed in life, no matter what pantheon you were affiliated with, no tug-of-war for souls. This is weakly supported by Jim's 'Uriel can easily destroy galaxies' statement which puts Uriel in a different league from just about everyone else, and implicitly the Creator well above that again.
(Back when Greco-Roman and other pantheons were more of a serious concern IRL, Christians would speculate that they were angels who had deserted from the War in Heaven and set themselves up with a fun gig on Earth.)
Going by this, fey contracts or Exalted prison-charms or whatever might get someone for ten thousand years, but the Creator has the last word, no ifs, ands, or buts. So no, it really doesn't matter where you send him now because he ends up in the same one eventually.

2. Despite that, it is not "anything goes", because one's actions influence the state of one's own soul. It's fine to execute him for being so evil and dangerous, but certain things are off limits to do to any human, at all, broadly similar to the DF Laws of Magic. DP might have another reveal in store where the nazicromancer doesn't count as human and doesn't have a soul any more because mumble mumble dark rituals, but that would surprise me at this point.

3. The word "hell" is being used for at least two different things here, so let me use different names for them:
Team Fallen Angels is traditionally considered to be driven by something like envy: they were beings most favored by the Creator, then one day* the Creator made humans and said "you know what, these are even cooler" (heavily paraphrased) and the Fallen Angels threw a temper tantrum about being second-place and decided to ruin humanity. There's lots of violence in there for obvious reasons, but violence isn't the goal in itself - debasing humanity is. Using the power of Team Fallen Angels for any reason is a bad idea because it's not a neutral force.
Team Kakuri is, from a Christian standpoint, and based on what I've seen of the setting so far (insert really large caveats about multiple authors and houserules) not significantly different from channeling the power of the Antarctic and threatening to send the guy to the South Pole with minimal life support so he can freeze his legs off. It is a neutral force, even if it gets translated as "hellish", and using it is judged based on what you do with it. Refer to point 2.

*possibly the first day, coinciding with the creation of linear time
 
Artemis1992 said:
With Kakuri-Specialty from our demonic guide our Occult is 1 higher.
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Fair.
My general point still stands though.
Artemis1992 said:
I don't think talking about the eastern hells reveals anything, except that we know about them.
The monks won't get anything useful from that, they have no idea how young we are and that we really shouldn't know anything about asian underworlds.
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We would be exposing beyond mortal levels of knowledge of the eastern hells while in the body of a 17 year old still in high school.
And in front of people whose vocation is hunting some of the escapees of those hells.
We already raise a lot of questions just by existing.

Not to mention that you would be telling all this to Gorfel, the neonazi warlock.
Whose fate is either to be sent to Edinburgh, where Nemesis has Black Council infiltrators to record everyting they can interrogate him about, or to escape back to his Kemmlerite buddies.

No thanks.
Information is power for wizards; we're supposed to be extracting it, not giving it away.
Earth-Destroyer said:
You can't silence a rifle round. You can muffle a handgun, but even that is hard to do.
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Thats inaccurate.

You cant silence the supersonic crack of a rifle bullet breaking the sound barrier, at least not without using subsonic ammo, but you CAN muffle the report of the shot itself. Which helps make it more difficult to detect, and reduces how far it can be detected.
The new US military rifle is coming with suppressors as standard.

And that assumes the rifle used wasnt magiked up for silence.
 
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uju32 said:
Not to mention that you would be telling all this to Gorfel, the neonazi warlock.
Whose fate is either to be sent to Edinburgh, where Nemesis has Black Council infiltrators to record everyting they can interrogate him about, or to escape back to his Kemmlerite buddies.
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Good point.

[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.
uju32 said:
Thats inaccurate.

You cant silence the supersonic crack of a rifle bullet breaking the sound barrier, but you CAN muffle the report of the shot itself.
Which helps make it more difficult to detect, and reduces how far it can be detected.
The new US military rifle is coming with suppressors as standard.
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IIRC, you can also use low velocity rounds which have a smaller powder charge to prevent them from being so loud. There is a trade-off in range and power, but it can be worth it against an unarmored, unsuspecting target who is nearby.
 
uju32 said:
We would be exposing beyond mortal levels of knowledge of the eastern hells while in the body of a 17 year old still in high school.
And in front of people whose vocation is hunting some of the escapees of those hells.
We already raise a lot of questions just by existing.

Not to mention that you would be telling all this to Gorfel, the neonazi warlock.
Whose fate is either to be sent to Edinburgh, where Nemesis has Black Council infiltrators to record everyting they can interrogate him about, or to escape back to his Kemmlerite buddies.

No thanks.
Information is power for wizards; we're supposed to be extracting it, not giving it away.
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We are just telling him what a Yomi-hell looks like.
This you can propably look up in a good occult book in Asia.
And the warlock here doesn't know we are Micheals daughter, he's more likely to consider us some particularly mean ice-fey, or a less-pretty Shikome from Kakuri than he is to actually think we are what we look like.
 
Yomi Wan is not just unpleasant environs. It is in a very real sense hell, just not one quite as final nor quite as airtight as the Christian hell is meant to be. In principle Thousand Hells are meant to be a place of punishment for the most corrupt and populated souls, but also a place where through torment they are purified, at least insofar as they might pass to some other place... but:

The Yama Kings
While they have many origins from former god of a colonized people turned demon in the eyes of their conquerers to insane asura seeking decadence and through it the end of all things to corrupt elemental and place spirits the Yama Kings do have one thing in common... they broke the rules. What should have been a very narrow place of punishment for the worst of the worst has metastasized into a cancer on the spirit world that actively seeks to make the world a worse place and its people more wicked so that it may feed its ever-growing maw. So if you send a person who is not quite a good fit for the endless darkness of Kakuri, hell if you send an innocent Emma-O is not going to make a fuss over it, more souls for him. It's not like he lets them out to some better place when they might be cleansed. He has use for those souls.

The Wan Kuei
Since the Yama Kings broke the rules, including by tempting the Wan Xian to evil so too are their rules broken. Be the hell ever so strong, its guards ever so vigilant and its master ever so quick with the whip there will always be a way out of each of the Thousand Hells and the people who make it though become the Wan Kuei, the Demon People. Now remember that I said about how the hells are not filled only with the guilty, or not as guilty as they should be? That is one of the reason why you should not read 'demon' to mean always evil as one would with say the fallen. even some who are trained to fight supernatural predation recognize that the Jade court has a right to existence while it polices its own.
 
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[X] A different kind of intimidation for a different kind of man (Charisma + Occult)
-[X] Scoff at the ignorance of a Necromancer thinking that he deserves rest in death. You can promise him a life after death, though it will not be a pleasant one. Describe the darkness and cold of Kakuri while leaning close enough that he can feel the chill of your body.
-[X] Do directly state that you can send him there, just in case he mistakes you for some kind of fey and thinks you can't lie.
 
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