Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Probably not a good idea to talk about that now.
For one, the laws of magic are generally good rules even without the metaphysical consequences for breaking them. There are situations where we'll need to do things like kill in self defense, but no reason to be or seem eager to do so.
For another, it's a very difficult claim to prove. One that he can't test without taking serious risks. Both in terms of risk that Molly goes crazy, and in discovery getting the council to send hit squads after both of us.
Finally at least one, more likely two, of them absolutely do apply to us. Opening the outer gates is a bad idea for everyone in reality, and it's implied playing with time travel can have serious consequences outside of the mental contamination.
I mean you could turn on Impervious Primacy Mantle and invite him to try to enter your mind/observe it, but that is a dark grey area in the Laws at best and he is very unlikely to take the chance at it now of all times.
Jack vile Ripper
The swellest guy in Creation.
- Location
- Indonesia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
And Harry Dresden look upon the mighty Demon Empress, for her bawdy joke has caused him great distress. With veins on his temple he spoke, "Speak not of matters you do not understand. Indeed, I carry a spirit whose heart froze the sight of maidens and sunder mens' bravery. But that does not imply that I have bedded her and put her into the rigors of bondage."
But Pree Molly cackled, and she laughed in the seven ways as Demon Emperors are wont. Her fangs bared as she spoke a blandishment most foul. "Thou mayest have eyes, but thou perceiveth not of Mount Meru. Truly, thou art as blind as a fox trapped on a wheelbarrow. She is as smitten with thee as my black heart beats for ye. How could thou be so naivë?"
And Harry knows that he has been duped and wisely chose silence as his answer.
Edit: Blame @CorruptedKing for this. Because of her wiles that I have read upon K6BD yet again. And I can't help but draw comparison for Molly Carpenter and Aesma Ten Yondam.
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Wouldn't that just show him that we believe it, and possibly some of the reasons why?
That'd be better than nothing, but it's not like he could implicitly trust any lore we gave him as untainted without verifying it first. Not because of anything Molly did, but simply because it's coming from an unknown source and contradicting things he regards as throughly tested facts.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I imagine the Wardens have heard the claim that someone has been able to avoid the deleterious effects of breaking one of the Laws many, many times.
Sad thing is that there is a decent chance more than one of those poor bastards was right, but never got to prove it because they suffered a sudden, terminal case of decapitation.
No, I mean invite him to poke her mind as though he were trying to implant a compulsion at which point he hits unbreakable defenses. That is not direct proof of mental restoration, but it does hint that way.
Of course this hinges on 'almost Black Magic' on his part and if she is wrong about the defenses then he just broke the Fourth Law
Oh, I thought you were suggesting giving him a guided tour of what we have on charms to demonstrate that they don't follow normal casting rules for DF magic even though they're supernatural powers invoked by a mortal wizard.
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- florida
You should thread mark this @DragonParadox.
And personally jack I did indeed hear my mental voice for Aesma from KSBD. So very good writing here.
Edit: even before reading that's what you were going for.
False spring beckons... beckons
Show them we have a reliable cure for it. I want it. I want to rub their grim darkness in their faces.
Not that it isnt terrible that they have essentially had to do this for years, but ya know.
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Ok, vote closed, let's see how he takes it.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I decided to reread it again recently as well it's just that good
Arc 0 Post 17: To Judge and be Judged
To Judge and be Judged
5th of July 2006 A.D.
"Gotta admit, I was surprised to learn you have a beautiful woman with great fashion sense trapped in the basement of your soul. Kinky!" You are not sure how you managed to string those words together without stuttering once, but the smile that accompanies it is mostly pride in having done so. Well... that and glancing between your lashes to see if you might have drawn more than a professional look.
"I do not think he is feeling amorous," Usum offers as Harry looks frozen, like you could tip him over with a feather as gram used to say.
"Darn it, what is it with everyone and using weird Harry-related words," you grumble at him as Harry reaches with a hand to his forehead as though unsure he he wants to massage away a headache or cover his eyes, maybe even both.
"Molly that's..." he stops then starts again. "I know you are not going to trust me as much once I tell you who that was, but you have to listen."
That is so not what you wanted. Dropping your voice to w whisper because this is a lot more serious than joking about soul basements. "It's OK, Harry I know she is Lasciel, a kind of Lasciel as she put it because you would not take up the coin, I know how you got the coin and why, she explained a bunch of things."
"And you believed her?" You would be more offended at being called naive if he did not sound so strangled.
"Most of it was stuff you can confirm and for the rest of it I can just look with my Crown, she called it a 'flighty spark of intelectus' if that helps. I'm not going to just blow that on the spot, but I could so it would not have been worth it to her to lie just to get something in around the edges."
"Molly people a lot older and wiser than you have thought that of the Denarians have thought that and all of them came to a really bad end out of the bargain," he says gravely.
"You were listening to her, just now, when your eyes would slide off and..." you think back to Arctis Tor when he had been observing a tree. You had not caught him at it then, but if ever there was a time he would want the literal shoulder devil to weigh in it would be then. So you guess: "And at Arctis Tor too."
From the way he kind of rocks back a little and blinks, like you had thrown dust in his eyes or something it seems you had guessed aright.
"Yeah well who says I'm not done for kid?" he sighs. "I'd like to think I can hold out against the Nickleheads more than most, with what I've seen of them but..."
"No, no no," you cut him off, each syllable a little louder than the last. You catch yourself just in time, lowering the tone so it would not echo though the whole church, but the words come out anyway "I am so sick of hearing about people being inevitably damned, you because of Lasciel, warlocks because they broke the Laws of Magic. That is not now this works." You can feel your eyes start to itch with the start of tears, but you don't care. "That is not how any of this works, people have free will, they can choose to be evil and they can choose to be good, that has to be true or the words don't mean anything!"
"I'm sorry." He grips his hands together as if he does not quite know what to do with them. "So she told you about the Laws huh?"
"Yes," you reply, wiping away the handful of angry tears, at least you will maintain they were angry if anyone asks.
"You have broken chains of Winter, passed though flight, though battle and the veil of worlds to come to this place my princess," Usum offers softly. "Treasure your tears and do not be ashamed of them for they too mark the hour of your ascension."
"Alright how about this?" Harry asks after a moment. "You tell me what Lasciel said and if she told you any lies or twisted any truths, because they are good at that too, I'll tell you and we can go from there."
And so you tell him, though you keep back the request for the end so you can get through. He seems startled when you not only recount the Laws, but also the warning that breaking them warps the mind of the one who does it. It's when you get to the Justin and Elaine part that he starts to look really uncomfortable. You try to rush though the whole relationship thing as fast as you can, but that is it turns out no the problem.
"It doesn't matter if it was self-defense, I broke the law, I turned magic which comes from life and it meant to protect life against it and it marked me, just like it does every other warlock. If Lasciel was trying to make some fantasy where breaking the Laws for the right reasons is fine..."
"Of course it matters," you reply not angry just confused. "Crimes have degrees, even what I did which was a hundred times worse than what I did because Rosie did not deserve what happened to her. It was like... getting in a car without a license and running over someone because I did not know how to drive. That does not mean it is the same as someone who goes on a multi-year car based serial killing spree. I know it is not just the same because hitting people with cars is not addictive, but people do beat addiction with something other than death."
"There is a way around that, I can protect you, but you have to trust me." You know what he is about to offer.
Do you trust Harry Dresden, with not just your safety but his own? "The Doom of Damocles," you answer, keeping your voice carefully neutral. "Lasciel said you would offer that and said you made a lot of enemies on the Council who would use that against you, so she asked me to refuse."
"And why would you think of doing her a favor?" There is anger in those words, though it is not directed, mostly, at you,
"Because as she put it we have a shared goal, keeping you alive." You pause and look him in the eye. "I think that is a worthy goal even if I have to share it with a Fallen."
"Molly you are seventeen, it is not your job to keep me alive," he is trying to sound stern and not really managing it, too much shock,
What do you reply?
[] It's not a job, it's a choice and you made it, no Doom
-[] Offer a suggestion
-[] Leave it up to him
[] Fine, you will do what he thinks is best
[] Write in
OOC: Between the Exaltation and talking to Lash this is a very different Molly then the one who came to this point in canon. The presumed right of the White Council to judge her is being questioned hard, but I hope in a believable way.
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- Location
- Germany
We kinda have to talk strategy first, if we want to go without the Doom.
We still need a verdict that does not end with us having to fight Wardens, ideally.
Neither "I am beyond humanity" nor "I am beyond the judgement of feeble mortals" are likely to make for a good argument before the White Council after all.
[X] Talk options first.
-[X] You would much prefer if he did not put his life on the line here with the Doom of Damokles, but what other ways are there?
-[X] You can be pretty convincing, but you don't know the Council like he does, what general direction of argument would make sense?
-[X] Or, if arguing won't work, would your father's protection be enough to prevent the Council from trying to kill you?
We still need a verdict that does not end with us having to fight Wardens, ideally.
Neither "I am beyond humanity" nor "I am beyond the judgement of feeble mortals" are likely to make for a good argument before the White Council after all.
[X] Talk options first.
-[X] You would much prefer if he did not put his life on the line here with the Doom of Damokles, but what other ways are there?
-[X] You can be pretty convincing, but you don't know the Council like he does, what general direction of argument would make sense?
-[X] Or, if arguing won't work, would your father's protection be enough to prevent the Council from trying to kill you?
I mean you could also ask him not to report you, someone else might stumble on the tracks of the dark magic, but what with the structure of your soul changing there is no guarantee tracking magic and other divination would work. They could still do mundane investigation but well if that happens it would be one Warden not named Dresden at your door.
Usum has suggestions of how to deal with those👿
Usum has suggestions of how to deal with those👿
- Location
- florida
[X] Talk options first.
-[X] You would much prefer if he did not put his life on the line here with the Doom of Damokles, but what other ways are there?
-[X] You can be pretty convincing, but you don't know the Council like he does, what general direction of argument would make sense?
-[X] Or, if arguing won't work, would your father's protection be enough to prevent the Council from trying to kill you?
Or proving that were not addicted to dark magic Or that we can fix that in other people
I do like lying though. Lying is good.
-[X] You would much prefer if he did not put his life on the line here with the Doom of Damokles, but what other ways are there?
-[X] You can be pretty convincing, but you don't know the Council like he does, what general direction of argument would make sense?
-[X] Or, if arguing won't work, would your father's protection be enough to prevent the Council from trying to kill you?
Or proving that were not addicted to dark magic
Or that we can fix that in other people I do like lying though. Lying is good.
- Location
- Germany
I guess if Wardens dissapear the usual strategy is to send more Wardens, or possibly a local troubleshooter like Dreden?
I don't like having a dark secret in the backround that can make us even more enemies than we have anyway.
And it's not like we can clean this up, since we kinda wanted to keep these loose ends alive as our friends and such.
So unless there's really no other option I'd prefer to clear this up, out in the open.
ThatGazzer
Minds Eye Bind
- Location
- PNW
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Gently Try to Explain You Aren't Using Magic Like A Mortal Would, Thus Reporting You Would Be A Waste Of Time
-[X] "The Laws Apply to Mortals who use Magic, Life Itself, you just called it. But I don't think...I'm using that? I'm using something else. Its like...The Exaltation, when I accepted it, when I took it up, I could feel it. Feel Her. This new part of my Soul...It's not bound up in cause and effect, it's Paracausal in a way. It's...drawing power from The God I Will Become, maybe? The One I Would Become at the Turning Of The Age. I'm not totally sure just yet, I can know if I look but my theory is I'm closer to being My Own Paladin than a Normal Wizard. At least now."
Something like that, maybe? open to suggestions, but I'm about to get on the road so it might be a bit before I can respond.
-[X] "The Laws Apply to Mortals who use Magic, Life Itself, you just called it. But I don't think...I'm using that? I'm using something else. Its like...The Exaltation, when I accepted it, when I took it up, I could feel it. Feel Her. This new part of my Soul...It's not bound up in cause and effect, it's Paracausal in a way. It's...drawing power from The God I Will Become, maybe? The One I Would Become at the Turning Of The Age. I'm not totally sure just yet, I can know if I look but my theory is I'm closer to being My Own Paladin than a Normal Wizard. At least now."
Something like that, maybe? open to suggestions, but I'm about to get on the road so it might be a bit before I can respond.
Realistically speaking Harry is unlikely to stay out of things if something goes south enough that we trip WC death squads, one way or the other.
Given that, we might as well go for the Doom and get some official cover to work with in regards to the council.
The real trick will then be that we have to avoid pulling a Harry and actually interact with them in a regular and normal way to make it harder to think of us as crazed murder monsters.
His distaste was a contributing factor to his difficulties with the council, if we work with them instead of only showing up when everything is on fire we can turn mistrustful strangers into useful allies. Or at least contacts and business partners.
Much safer than hiding a dirty secret to be used against us at the worst possible time later on, or trying to talk around the most stubborn people on the planet without some sort of formal internal support.
- Location
- Germany
I don't see why or how we would interact much with the council?
We are not a Wizard to regularly meet with others, and it is very likely that our future adventures will involve much "showing up when everything is on fire".
I don't think Molly really knows enough of the details to claim much of this yet, and it doesn't really sound like how exaltations anyway.
More than that, it definitely sounds like something a megalomaniac addicted to dominating other people's wills would say. Which is the concern he has about us aside from the mysterious demonic themed soul renovation.
Even if all that is true actually stating it outright has no benefit but risks a negative response.
This assumes that they never look into us, and that no future enemy tries to use this very public sequence of events against us. Like that two dot enemy who could ruin our day with a few minutes of conversation stuck to the end of existing negotiations with various WC members.
It also assumes we don't want to make use of any of the possible resources we could access as a wizard in good standing. They're one of the most accessible, least objectionable, and easily negotiate with supernatural factions.
Wizard contacts could make it easy to trade small slices of information for more without burning additional questions, get access to useful resources under the table (this is presumably how Harry got things like the depleted uranium dust he has in his lab for some reason), and make contact with people with useful skills or knowledge.
You know, actually using the council benefits instead of ignoring them outside of wars and subpoenas like Dresden does.
We don't have to do all that stuff, but it'd be profitable and help us get hooked into all the cool supernatural stuff in the setting. At the very least we need to do something to make it harder for them to be used against use so easily.
[x] First lets check if I can actually still do magic before deciding anything. What little I have picked up indicates that the prior people that had this power didn't need to draw power from outside themselves to do magic.
Get facts first.
Get facts first.
- Location
- Germany
You make it sound like we could be a wizard in good standing.
But we are not a Wizard.
Even if we did get to be accepted as a potential wizard we'd be stuck as an apprentice for years and by the end of that we are a fully grown Exalted anyway and it won't matter.
Joining the council as a real Wizard is just not in the cards without a lot of trickery and a timeframe that's quite possibly beyond this quest.