Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

[X] Promotion in the capital (High boost to Hanyi popularity, no change in reformer support)

Pushing Hanyi's popularity in the capital is really tempting, to sway those imperial factions to her side or just to neutral rather than hostile. But fostering a growing movement in the south which is gonna gain prominence in the future with trade ties to a foreign land is probably the move.

[X] Promotion in the capital (High boost to Hanyi popularity, no change in reformer support)

Sentorian said:

[X] Promotion in the capital (High boost to Hanyi popularity, no change in reformer support)

This feels like the better option for Hanyi to me. This seems like a choice between prioritizing Ling Qi's ambition or Hanyi's and I personally don't feel very comfortable making potentially sub-optimal decisions for others based on personal benefit. Ideally, it'd be nice to talk it over and see what her preference is, but that doesn't seem to be an option. This was supposed to be Hanyi's thing for Hanyi's benefit, was my impression, so I'll vote capital here.

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Better in the short term maybe.
But with more popularity comes more attention, and not all of it positive, more critics, more enemies, and more demands of her time.
Being thrust into big leagues too early can be bad for artists career.

[X] Open the southwest (Lesser boost in popularity for Hanyi, may boost Weilu Reformer support in long term. Bond 1 with Meng Diu)

I think this is, in long term, the best bet, slower development for Hanyi's career yes, but also gives time to build a dedicated fan base, and to build an organsation to support her that is bigger than one dude who is doing it as a side gig.
Hanyi will be a superstar, but we have centuries to get there.

Valmond said:

Better in the short term maybe.
But with more popularity comes more attention, and not all of it positive, more critics, more enemies, and more demands of her time.
Being thrust into big leagues too early can be bad for artists career.

[X] Open the southwest (Lesser boost in popularity for Hanyi, may boost Weilu Reformer support in long term. Bond 1 with Meng Diu)

I think this is, in long term, the best bet, slower development for Hanyi's career yes, but also gives time to build a dedicated fan base, and to build an organsation to support her that is bigger than one dude who is doing it as a side gig.
Hanyi will be a superstar, but we have centuries to get there.

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If we're talking about Hanyis safety and easing her into a music career or whatever, I'm not really sure I agree with the capital being clearly riskier. We just learned about the particulars of the divide in the Meng, and Meng Diu is clearly opposed to her brother who is in power. One in four people are on her side, by her own admission. I don't think that Meng Dui is offering to help Hanyi because she is really into Hanyis music and just thinks she'll be a hit, this a political move - parading around the spirit of someone very closely connected with the Cai while also trying to further ties with that Cai retainer by doing their spirit a solid. Hanyi is a bargaining chip at best here. I have no idea how that dynamic is gonna work, but I dunno if it's necessarily less pressure than the capital. Basically, I'm just not sure being a political pawn in Meng territory is going to attract less negative attention than being a novelty in the capital would.

Regardless I really think Hanyi should be involved in this decision making and that's my complaint more than the outcome of this vote I guess, but I imagine I'm starting to sound like a broken record on that.

[X] Open the southwest (Lesser boost in popularity for Hanyi, may boost Weilu Reformer support in long term. Bond 1 with Meng Diu)

Better to build a more solid foundation that will keep paying dividends, rather than something larger but shakier.

We'll just have to invest some of the gains from this decision back into Hanyi's career.

[X] Promotion in the capital (High boost to Hanyi popularity, no change in reformer support)

[X] Open the southwest (Lesser boost in popularity for Hanyi, may boost Weilu Reformer support in long term. Bond 1 with Meng Diu)


Pushing reformer to 3 while Ling Qi opponents are still -2 will be valuable. They provide something of a deterrent, since thex're willing to go farther to aid Ling Qi than the reactionaries are to harm her.

Sentorian said:

If we're talking about Hanyis safety and easing her into a music career or whatever, I'm not really sure I agree with the capital being clearly riskier. We just learned about the particulars of the divide in the Meng, and Meng Diu is clearly opposed to her brother who is in power. One in four people are on her side, by her own admission. I don't think that Meng Dui is offering to help Hanyi because she is really into Hanyis music and just thinks she'll be a hit, this a political move - parading around the spirit of someone very closely connected with the Cai while also trying to further ties with that Cai retainer by doing their spirit a solid. Hanyi is a bargaining chip at best here. I have no idea how that dynamic is gonna work, but I dunno if it's necessarily less pressure than the capital. Basically, I'm just not sure being a political pawn in Meng territory is going to attract less negative attention than being a novelty in the capital would.

Regardless I really think Hanyi should be involved in this decision making and that's my complaint more than the outcome of this vote I guess, but I imagine I'm starting to sound like a broken record on that.

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Meng Diu is not clearly opposed with her borther, they merely have differences in opinion, but not necessarily a direct opposition, and Meng Diu remains the representative at the court, which means she has power and pull.

I am not worried for her physical safety, but in the capital Hanyi has to deal not only with Meng who might not like her (and even those who dislike us are less likely to oppose her on ideological basis among the Meng), be it because they dislike us, or because they dislike her for not being human.
Taking things slowly allows her career to grow with her, probides a more sympathetic audience, and gives her time to grow support structures needed to help her grow her career/cult.
With a bond to Meng Diu we, and by proxy Hanyi, will have a powerful patron helping us get started.

[X] Open the southwest (Lesser boost in popularity for Hanyi, may boost Weilu Reformer support in long term. Bond 1 with Meng Diu)

Valmond said:

Meng Diu is not clearly opposed with her borther, they merely have differences in opinion, but not necessarily a direct opposition, and Meng Diu remains the representative at the court, which means she has power and pull.

I am not worried for her physical safety, but in the capital Hanyi has to deal not only with Meng who might not like her (and even those who dislike us are less likely to oppose her on ideological basis among the Meng), be it because they dislike us, or because they dislike her for not being human.
Taking things slowly allows her career to grow with her, probides a more sympathetic audience, and gives her time to grow support structures needed to help her grow her career/cult.
With a bond to Meng Diu we, and by proxy Hanyi, will have a powerful patron helping us get started.

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Maybe opposed is too strong a word. She says that he resents the Cai/Senhua for the death of his father, but here she is when asked about Meng internal politics talking to a Cai retainer about how they need reform, and then making overtures towards future cooperation. Explicitly talking about converting people to her/the reformist faction. That doesn't feel like idle chatter to me, maybe not outright 'opposition' but I'd say she has designs and is actively trying to take things a direction her brother would not likely support.

yrsillar said:

"I have decided that I quite enjoy winter music. A passing whim I am sure," Meng Diu said. "I would like to offer patronage for your junior sister."

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That does not read to me like someone who is doing this for Hanyi. That reads to me like someone who thinks they have a found a lever to pull with Ling Qi. I'm not sure the 25% of the population sympathetic with us/Meng Diu would really count as a sympathetic audience. Either way this vote goes, she's pledged to promote Hanyi, so either way we have her as a patron. The difference for me is that I suspect that the Meng tour and whatever additional Meng Diu support that entails might come with some more strings attached.

Obviously this is a lot of conjecture based on my reading of this chapter, and who knows how much of this is correct. But at the same time I do this characterization that I've seen here a lot that this will be a laid back sure thing and Hanyi will sweep up tons of momentum and eager country yokels into her fanbase, relies just on just as much supposition? I don't think Meng Diu cares about Hanyi at all, but this deal would be more advantageous for Ling Qi's political aims. I just don't want to sacrifice Hanyi's personal venture that she's put a lot of work into for the sake of that (and I realize that most people don't see this vote as doing that, and that's fine). I think we all want Hanyi to succeed, and hopefully this Meng venture works out for her.

Sentorian said:

Maybe opposed is too strong a word. She says that he resents the Cai/Senhua for the death of his father, but here she is when asked about Meng internal politics talking to a Cai retainer about how they need reform, and then making overtures towards future cooperation. Explicitly talking about converting people to her/the reformist faction. That doesn't feel like idle chatter to me, maybe not outright 'opposition' but I'd say she has designs and is actively trying to take things a direction her brother would not likely support.

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Well duh.
Ofcourse she has designs.
Converting people into her faction is what we want to happen, we want them onboard of the Cai train, that's quite explicitly one of the things we are here for.
And not supporting is not the same as actively supporting.

We are a direct retainer of a ducal heir, everything we do is politics, and voting to avoid politics is impossible, only thing we vote for is how we politics.
Voting for capital is voting to not aid Meng Diu in her attemps to bring her people to our side.
And while that's fine at some level, i don't see the any potential benefits from Hanyi having more success here and now outweihting the benefits from doing our job, gaining an influential ally/patron, and helping Hanyi get a solid foundation to her career/cult.

Valmond said:

Voting for capital is voting to not aid Meng Diu in her attemps to bring her people to our side.

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Well no, for me it's voting to not use our Junior Sister and her hard earned success as a pawn in thinly veiled political ploy. Much less without her input in the matter at all. I care much more about Hanyi than I do about Meng Diu's asperations for reform. You may have different priorities.

Valmond said:

doing our job, gaining an influential ally/patron, and helping Hanyi get a solid foundation to her career/cult

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You say this like it's so easy and so assured. I've tried to explain repeatedly why I don't personally think that it's so cut and dry. Talking down to me like I'm dim isn't going to magically make me see how this is 100% going to be perfect for Hanyi, who again is my main priority in this vote. Lets just agree to disagree so you can stop quoting me to lecture me ad nauseam about a vote you are winning in a landslide, lol.