Reviewing the contracts available under Administration -

* Current phase of Expand Blaster Contracts (Phase 8) will give us 128 pts of Blasters per turn, which will just barely be enough to meet our target.
* We only need a single point of extra production for Escorts to meet our plan target, so we can either go with a single contract Phase 1 for either the Arquitens or the Harbinger, or we can build shipyards at Kamino to do it ourselves.
* A single phase of Expand Clone Production weill give us 64 points of clones, while a single phase of Cloning Operations will give us 128 pts of clones so these 192 pts will meet our target for clone production for this plan. Clone Operations does not require Logistics, Trainers etc but Expanding Clone Production does - 8 Logistics, 8 Facilities, 4 Trainers. We've got enough Facilities and Trainers to complete this but not enough Logistics - will have to complete next phase of Construct Indoor Farms to give us enough Logistics (16) to supply Expand Clone Production.

Chaeronea said:

* A single phase of Expand Clone Production weill give us 64 points of clones, while a single phase of Cloning Operations will give us 128 pts of clones so these 192 pts will meet our target for clone production for this plan. Clone Operations does not require Logistics, Trainers etc but Expanding Clone Production does - 8 Logistics, 8 Facilities, 4 Trainers. We've got enough Facilities and Trainers to complete this but not enough Logistics - will have to complete next phase of Construct Indoor Farms to give us enough Logistics (16) to supply Expand Clone Production.

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If this is the case, what is the rationale for not putting dice into Clone Operations in any of the plans? That action doesn't seem to impose a cost on logistics and trainers, from what I can see, which was the motivating rationale for not using any of our Cloning Dices to begin with.

[X]Plan Hey man, you got some armor?

Facilities and logistics are pretty major constraints right now

Andmeuths said:

If this is the case, what is the rationale for not putting dice into Clone Operations in any of the plans? That action doesn't seem to impose a cost on logistics and trainers, from what I can see, which was the motivating rationale for not using any of our Cloning Dices to begin with.

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The equivalent phase of Operations is locked until the Expand Clone Production is done, so phase is 8 is locked just now.

Andmeuths said:

If this is the case, what is the rationale for not putting dice into Clone Operations in any of the plans? That action doesn't seem to impose a concern on logistics and trainers, from what I can see, which was the motivating rationale for not using any of our Cloning Dices to begin with.

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Basically there needs to be enough phases in Expand Clone Production before the Clone Operations can take effect - Clone Operations is having the Kaminoans running the clone factories but in order to do so there have to be the clone factories set up for them to run. If you look in the Industry section you can see that Local Blaster Production has 80/30 points - it has enough points to tick over to the next phase but hasn't because there aren't enough blaster factories built to produce the blasters. It's like having the supply chains to the blaster factories set up, the workforce trained, the managers hired and all ready to start work - they're just waiting for the factory to go up.

@Oshha Did I explain this correctly?

EDIT: I'm working on my own plan which will include 1D in Clone Operations so as soon as Expand Clone Production is complete it will be ready to go.

Khop said:

Line item	T	SF	Mpt
Clones	2,760	1,480	148
Blasters	2,716	1,256	126
Armour	2,900	2,400	240
Light S/T/W	536	176	18
Medium S/T/W	564	344	35
Heavy S/T/W	574	394	40
Interceptors	384	284	29
Starfighters	560	280	28
Bombers	184	24	3
Escorts	168	8	1
Capital Ships	352	112	12

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Chaeronea said:

* We only need a single point of extra production for Escorts to meet our plan target, so we can either go with a single contract Phase 1 for either the Arquitens or the Harbinger, or we can build shipyards at Kamino to do it ourselves.

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We can make do with a single phase of escort expansion Q3 26 BBY. It's better to focus exclusively on starfighter factories to ramp up our local production and wittle away at one of our intercepter goals steadily.

Chaeronea said:

will have to complete next phase of Construct Indoor Farms to give us enough Logistics (16) to supply Expand Clone Production.

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It's become insuffient to alternate back and forth between facility expansion and indoor farming so we are turning instead to import food.

I'm adjusting my plan to throw another dice at armour and import food while shifting a single die from starfighter factories towards bomber production.

Chaeronea said:

* A single phase of Expand Clone Production weill give us 64 points of clones, while a single phase of Cloning Operations will give us 128 pts of clones so these 192 pts will meet our target for clone production for this plan. Clone Operations does not require Logistics, Trainers etc but Expanding Clone Production does - 8 Logistics, 8 Facilities, 4 Trainers. We've got enough Facilities and Trainers to complete this but not enough Logistics - will have to complete next phase of Construct Indoor Farms to give us enough Logistics (16) to supply Expand Clone Production.

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They won't because Expand Clone Production gives us clones one time and Clone Operations gives us clones per turn. We need 148 more clones per turn so we will need to get to Phase 9 of Clone operations to complete the plan. Which will require a lot of trainers, logistics and facilities.

BOTcommander said:

Training 100R
-[X] Commander Courses 3D 60R
-[X] Commando Courses 2D 40R

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A few clarifications I'd like to ask about your plan: you used 5 out of the 7 training Die. Is there any reason why you aren't using the remaining two Dice? I believe training bottlenecks are a major concern, so the two dies could be put towards completing Learning Facilities for example. This is probably necessary since further expansions to Clone Production, which we need to do to meet our Quota will quickly drive us into trainer shortfalls, judging by the discussions on the thread right now.

Also:

BOTcommander said:

Industry 160R
-[X] Develop Kaminoan Starfighter Factories (Phase 3) 5D 100R
-[X] Develop Kaminoan Shipyards (Phase 1) 2D 60R

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I thought we have 6 Industry Dies, not 7? Some clarification here is appreciated.

Void Stalker said:

Facilities and logistics are pretty major constraints right now

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We also have a looming Training Shortage right now, which this plan, as I understand it doesn't actually address.

BOTcommander said:

Training 100R
-[] Commander Courses 3D 60R
-[] Commando Courses 2D 40R

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Andmeuths said:

Some clarifications I'd like to ask about your plan: you used 5 out of the 7 training Die. Is there any reason why you aren't using the remaining two Dice? I believe training bottle necks are a concern, so the two dies could be put on Learning Facilities for example.

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It is also rather overspending on Commanders. If there is no next phase in this path then we only need 82 progress. And the average training die gives us 77. And that is an action that needs 8 Trainers which we need for expanding Clone production.

This quarter is harder to plan due to our low surpluses in Facilities/Logistics/Trainers. We can either limit our dice usage and progress our goals or focus on expanding our supplies. Its hard to balance it.

Oshha said:

Training (7 Dice): +27

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Oshha said:

[] Commander Courses
You have completed training courses for officers in general, but that is just junior leadership. For any senior clone leadership, they will need even more specialised training courses of their own to ensure that they can wage wars instead of merely winning battles.
(718/800, 20 Resources per Die) (---- Trainers)

[] Commando Courses
With the clones rapidly growing up, you are going to need some training courses sooner rather than later. While the bulk of the clones can be trained by your trainers, you will need some special forces for the clone army. Set up some specialised courses for the clones to be trained as special forces.
(180/500, 20 Resources per Die) (--- Trainers)

[] Security Courses
With the clones rapidly growing up, you are going to need some training courses sooner rather than later. While the bulk of the clones can be trained by your trainers, you will need some properly trained security for the clone army. Set up some specialised courses for the clones to be trained as professional security guards.
(398/400, 20 Resources per Die) (--- Trainers)

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With the bonus to rolls we should realy only need one on either commander courses or security courses. Also bearing in mind that course costs multiply with each additional minus sign added, we should only complete one of these plans if we don't want to use up our available trainers.

I'd like to gauge peoples feelings on completing only security forces this turn and throwing six dice on learning facilities to give us a big boost to trainers. We would compensate next turn by completing commanders and possible commandos courses.

[X] Plan: No naked or hungry Mandos

Chaeronea said:

Basically there needs to be enough phases in Expand Clone Production before the Clone Operations can take effect - Clone Operations is having the Kaminoans running the clone factories but in order to do so there have to be the clone factories set up for them to run. If you look in the Industry section you can see that Local Blaster Production has 80/30 points - it has enough points to tick over to the next phase but hasn't because there aren't enough blaster factories built to produce the blasters. It's like having the supply chains to the blaster factories set up, the workforce trained, the managers hired and all ready to start work - they're just waiting for the factory to go up.

@Oshha Did I explain this correctly?

EDIT: I'm working on my own plan which will include 1D in Clone Operations so as soon as Expand Clone Production is complete it will be ready to go.

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The problem is that Cloning Operations is locked as action you can take until you complete enough phases of Expand Clone Production. For example, you cannot take it this turn because you haven't got another phases of Expand Clone Production done.

So I say that you did explain it correctly though you cannot create a plan that spends any dice on Cloning Operations.

The vote is still open.

RandyTrevelyan said:

I'd like to gauge peoples feelings on completing only security forces this turn and throwing six dice on learning facilities to give us a big boost to trainers. We would compensate next turn by completing commanders and possible commandos courses.

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Hawkmoon said:

This quarter is harder to plan due to our low surpluses in Facilities/Logistics/Trainers. We can either limit our dice usage and progress our goals or focus on expanding our supplies. Its hard to balance it.

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I think looking at how the votes are developing, plans probably would need to consolidate to avoid the issue of a Trainer shortfall (unless @BOTcommander plans are revised to tackle the issue about training shortfalls and is adjusted to bring the Industry Dice use down to 6 from the current 7).

Hawkmoon's logic (about our bottlenecks in Facilities/Logistics/Trainers) does suggest that six dice on learning Facilities and finishing of Security forces might be the better play long term, if taken together with 7D sunk to expanding our Facilities, which both of your plans call for, because we are going to need to still ramp up Clone Production still further.

For the record, I've voted for Hawkmoon's plan for now, but I am actually perfectly fine with sinking 6 dice into learning facilities. I do not know about @kelgar04 's position though.


Edit: One more thing for the plan makers to consider:

Oshha said:

[] Expand Clone Production (Phase 8)
You have completed the initial batch of clones, but the army is still going to need plenty more soldiers. Now you need to work on expanding the current cloning operations to allow for more clones to be produced at once.
(211/350, 15 Resources per Die) (---- Facilities, ---- Logistics, --- Trainers, +++++++ Clones)

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Even a 100 + 22 roll will not complete this action, so I think that you can safely allocate one Cloning dice to Expand Clone Production (Phase 8). Something for plan makers to consider, especially since the votes are consolidating as we speak.

BOTcommander said:

Industry 160R
-[X] Develop Kaminoan Starfighter Factories (Phase 3) 5D 100R
-[X] Develop Kaminoan Shipyards (Phase 1) 2D 60R

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You are spending one too many dice here. You only have six Industry Dice and your plan spends seven.

Oshha said:

Industry (6 Dice): +17

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[X]Plan Hey man, you got some armor?

RandyTrevelyan said:

With the bonus to rolls we should realy only need one on either commander courses or security courses. Also bearing in mind that course costs multiply with each additional minus sign added, we should only complete one of these plans if we don't want to use up our available trainers.

I'd like to gauge peoples feelings on completing only security forces this turn and throwing six dice on learning facilities to give us a big boost to trainers. We would compensate next turn by completing commanders and possible commandos courses.

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Right now we have:
Trainers: Major Surpluses (+13) (+2 per turn)
our current needs/wants for trainers are:
Expand Clone Production (Phase 8): -8 (with -8/-16 for Phase 9)
Commander Courses: -8
Commando Courses: -4
Security Courses: -4

Construct Learning Facilities (Phase 3) will give us +2 with Phase 4 most likely +4 and Phase 5 at +8. We would need Phase 6 which would most likely give +16 to Trainers to satisfy both current training and cloning needs.
My plan was to get Phase 3 finished this turn using 4 dice to give us 4*77=308 progress putting us most likely at 195/400 of Phase 4. And putting 1 die into each training course to finish Security, maybe finish Commanders and progress Commando.
6 dice will give us an average of 462 progress and put us at 349/400 of Phase 4. Unless Phase 4 is 350 then I don't know if putting 6 dice will be enough unless we are lucky. We would need all 7 dice into Training Facility to have a decent chance of finishing Phase 4 this quarter.

Basically we can finish two training courses this quarter without going negative and all 3 next quarter but we should really expand the training facilities. I would like to have some training except basic and officer so we should finish Security at least.

[X] Plan Accomplish Goals With Acceptable Exposure.
-[X] Expand into Tipoca City (Stage 4) 7D
-[X] Local PTB-625 Planetary Bomber Production (Phase 1)
-[X] Develop Kaminoan Starfighter Factories (Phase 3) 5D
-[X] Construct Learning Facilities (Phase 3) 6D
-[X] Security Courses 1D
-[X] Endurance Enhancements (Phase 3) D3
-[X] Low Light Vision 1D
-[X] Disable Inhibitor Chips D3
-[X] Import Supplies (Phase 1) 4D
-[X] Expand Blaster Contracts (Phase 8) 1D
-[X] Expand Armour Contracts (Phase 5) 3D

We've Run into a snag in clone expansion were we need facilities and loggistics to expand further. Infastructure isn't enough to keep up anymore so I've thrown 4 dice at importing food. Annoying I know, but clones is one of our highest requirements. Can't afford to let it stagnate.

We are slowly running out of trainers which are also required for clone expansion now, so I'm completing Security while aiming for a double completion on learning facilities to compensate for the drops we'll get from completing courses and clone expansion. If all goes well we might be anle to finish commander and Commando courses in Q4.

Research completes endurance and disable, while putting a dice towards Low light in hopes of eventually unlocking more exotic research options.

Administration I'm trying to finish blaster expansion while finally bringing Armour up to pace. Enough dice on import food to hopefully solve our logistics issues for at least the remainder of the cycle.

Hawkmoon said:

Basically we can finish two training courses this quarter without going negative and all 3 next quarter but we should really expand the training facilities. I would like to have some training except basic and officer so we should finish Security at least.

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Except that competing two training courses drops us bellow the 8 trainers required to complete phase 8 of clone expansion. With 6 dice and the 162 bonus poimts toward learning facilities we have a good chance of completing 2 phases of LF. It's the safe bet to gaurantee we complete clone expansion. Our clones won't be fight age for another year. We can afford to take it slow on the training course for one quarter to gaurantee we get cloning where we need it. We really can't afford delays.

RandyTrevelyan said:

Plan Accomplish Goals With Limited Exposier.

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Exposure. The closest auto correct is Exposer. And I think the name doesn't fit anymore since you switched to Exposure generating contracts.

Hawkmoon said:

Exposure. The closest auto correct is Exposer. And I think the name doesn't fit anymore since you switched to Exposure generating contracts.

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There, changed. I'm fine with 16 exposure. It's perfectly manageable since if the rolls pay off we have plenty of options for expand with no exposure that we can use while throwing 2 dice at burying secrets.

[X] Plan Accomplish Goals With Acceptable Exposure.

This plan effectively goes all-in into tackling our Logistics, Infrastructure and Training shortfalls, which is probably going to be the prime bottlenecks keeping us from expanding right into our quota on most fronts. I assume the emphasis on Starfighters over splitting between Shipyards and Starfighters (which is the other difference from Hawkmoon's plan), is because expanding Escort contracts is exposure free?

[X]Plan Hey man, you got some armor?

Andmeuths said:

[X] Plan Accomplish Goals With Acceptable Exposure.

This plan effectively goes all-in into tackling our Logistics, Infrastructure and Training shortfalls. I assume the emphasis on Starfighters over splitting between Shipyards and Starfighters (which is the other difference from Hawkmoon's plan), is because expanding Escort contracts is exposure free?

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Yes. It's contract free and we can put it off until the second to last quarter and still meet our goals. Also, based on previous posts by various users were going to hit mandal motors at some point.

Oshha said:

[] Contact MandalMotors
MandalMotors is the biggest Mandalorian business around and while they aren't currently producing warships, you know that they are fully capable of doing it. At least they should be capable of producing smaller warships and you know that they know their business as proven by the Fang-class Starfighter.
(DC 50) (-3 SS, +5 E)

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As you can see we can probably get a decent model of escort ship from them in one of the later quarters and reach our escort requirements with room to spare. Our best fighters and intercepters and all of our bombers come from exposure increasing contracts so it's better to handle some of the increase locally while expanding our rothana and Kaut contracts to make progress in that direction for the two quarters after this one. 3 quarters of focused production on local starfighter production should make it so we can limit our exposure causing expand contracts to two or three models and handle bomber and one model of intercepter locally.

[X] Plan Accomplish Goals With Acceptable Exposure.

Got convinced and I'm jumping to Randy's plan since it is close to what I wanted. I made a mistake earlier and thought our clones were older and needed the training courses faster forgetting we moved from 2x to 4x aging in the last quarter of the second year. So the two years will have only given our clones 8 years of age plus 4 years during the first two years. And that isn't counting gestation of the first batch together with handing over 100 000 clones to the Sith (I think the Sith would take the oldest ones for their goals).
I also got convinced on the Escort front since we might grab the missing production from MandalMotors during the next year instead of building shipyards and interceptors/bombers could be produced locally.
@kelgar04 You might consider changing your vote.

Plan currently stands at 5-3. This vote is still up for grabs - I do need to alert new voters that right now, the leading plan technically uses more Industry Dices than we have according to the QM, so it technically still needs to be corrected for the plan to be valid.

It also leaves two training dies unused and invests nothing towards the expansion of training resources, which is one of the shortfalls that limits Clone Production expansion. In fact, the leading plan as it stands would bring the looming shortfall in training resources forward with its high chance of completing Commander Courses, and limit our ability to ramp up Clone Production down the line.