Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I mean, we already unlocked three other locations in that update as well. With that setup it just reads like some kind of dream exploration map thing...

It could be an actual cultivation site, yes, but if that's the case I would really like @yrsillar to clarify that, because that kind of changes the context to this vote imo.
All three of those were described with "Liminal Exploration Target gained", while these two are "Gain Location access".

The implication to me seems clear that we have more or less free ongoing access to what we vote on here, but the other three places would be independent exploration mini-arcs/projects in their own right.
 
Remember that it's an actual plot point that Ling Qi does not have a good grasp of what a Dream revel is like. The defining experience of Ling Qi's time at a Dream revel is she barely remembers it. It's not some tried and discarded thing, it's yet unexplored and even parcel to this expedition's existence in the first place.

I mean i know it did not happen on screen but Remember that Six can very easy show us there Memory of the first Dream revel. An tbh if they did not do that off screen before our mayor Dreamdive i have to question the preparations, that seems like a good thing to show LQ. But that i don't know.
So yea a second Dream revel is very Interesting and it is very high on my list of things to go for. But there are more Revels coming up soon but meeting the skeleton may take time if we don't do it now.

In a vacuum, I think both options are interesting. It's just annoying to have the party disregarded through uneven reasoning: the skeleton counts as "exploration" but the party, which we just discovered via exploration, isn't; the skeleton has build-up, but the Dream party dripping with Weilu culture and history somehow doesn't; the repeatedly foreshadowed skeleton is an opportunity we can maybe only grab this one time, but the party implicitly doesn't have any limited opportunities because hey we have a line on another party and they're all the same, right?

It's a bit frustrating to see.

"Uneven reasoning" goes both ways, your are as guilty of it as any other quester here advertising there favourite course of action. But yea i agree with you the foreshadowing is skewering the vote and does not make it
equal in that context. Does it make it a bad Vote? No. Foreshadowing is pretty normal and i don't see a reason not to trust the Foreshadowing to be somewhat useful.

But none of this is taking place in a vacuum, anyway. There's the context of our journey with Sixiang, there's the context of our resource base, there's the context of our chosen projects, there's the context of past events, there's the context of upcoming events. Taken all together, I think the skeleton/gaol is simply untimely. That doesn't mean bad, uninteresting, or undesirable, just ill-suited for the current juncture.

Let's agree to disagree here, i think it is perfectly fine timed as an introduction. And again i don't see how adding another foundation could be ill suited (if that is what happens).

Here's the two broad scenarios I see playing out:
1. We don't have the chops to really dig into what we find. It's dramatic and interesting, but we're left with far more questions than answers. The Dream expedition's skill-building plot thread isn't meaningfully advanced. The Weilu skeleton is officially an active plot thread, but there's no room anywhere else in immediate future to do anything with it, and it doesn't enhance any of the slated narrative arcs for this month. The awkward condition of the Dream skill-building means Ling Qi hasn't built the chops to convincingly jump back into it. Other Dream projects to build those skills are effectively starting from step one, and we've wasted our time while adding another obligation to the pile of things we can't ignore.
2. We're able to engage with what we find effectively and make progress on developing our Dream prowess like the arc is meant for. Gathering first-step Dream lessons from the Gaol creates huge tensions with the narratively pre-committed first-step Dream lessons from the Dreaming Moon style resources at our disposal. Both avenues are trying to be "first" and there's no way to reconcile that because the "first" character of the Dreaming Moon stuff cannot actually be separated out coherently, because of previous narrative development.

And the uneven reasoning strikes again. "This option is better because these are the bad things that WILL happen if you vote for the other option."
For the record, im perfectly fine with with both of those things happening.
1. More options are good, and if those are cultivation options for the next plan vote, maybe they are better, maybe they are worse. But in any case it would not be a "waste of time" since we added options that may or may not combo with other stuff.
2. Correct me if I am wrong, but outside of the fact that it is imprisoned we know absolutely nothing about who or what that skeleton is. So saying it does not fit and creates "tensions with the narrative" does not have any hard reasoning behind it. It could very well be a Weilu follower of the Dreaming Moon for all we know.


I don't think any voted on option up to now has ever endet truly terrible, even the Bloody Moon was a good and maybe even necessary experience for LQ (and us) in the end. So i never understand all the Doomsaying that goes around in this Quest. In the end i always enjoyed the journey we set out on with our votes even if my top choice did not win.
 
Principally, my concern is with the potential for dysfunction in the new system. One of the biggest advantages with the new system is the way it's more explicit about tying underlying objectives into arcs. And how that aligns more with the progression mechanics.

The purpose of this adventure is to give Ling Qi a proper intro into Dream-ishness and to hang with Sixiang. It's a "first-step" narrative. If a choice does not effectively develop a narrative of Dream familiarization, like if for example Ling Qi is caught up in something blatantly beyond her ken, or it commits her to a Dream familiarization path perpendicular to Sixiang/the Dreaming Moon resources we have, then the system is not working as intended. It's giving narrative outputs that are at odds with the narrative inputs rooted in the arc itself.

This is especially a problem when it's a mostly blind choice doing it, that's being incentivized by vague foreshadowing. It's also especially a problem on introductory and concluding arcs, which inherently have higher standards for actually accomplishing the goals they're set out to do. A truncated or bungled introduction generates cascading problems. Often effectively mandating a second introduction. We are currently living that reality when it comes to Dream in particular, even! This arc exists to correct the fact we've constantly been messing up by not having it. Our opportunity cost debt is already stupidly deep as it is, and it's a deficit we built up through structural issues, not not taking chances.

Starting a distinct Dream intro inside of our Dream intro arc means delaying the original Dream intro. Getting lost in the deep end of a narratively prominent Dream mystery we have sharply limited agency to engage with because we're a fledgling also distracts from the Dream intro narrative that is the point of the arc. Nothing we get out of this arc really matters if we don't achieve the core goals, because in this case those core goals are what literally al Dream engagement hangs off of.

Also, pretty much the only associations we're aware of with the Weilu skeleton are a) the Weilu, in some capacity and b) a loose Dream Cult connection. The latter is explicitly not the same as Dreaming Moon cults. I'm sure there's been some crossover through the ages, but not in any sense that Sixiang embodies or is familiar with. They're separate hooks. Distinct genres of Dream engagement.
 

Ahhhhh i think i now understand what you are trying to convey. English is not my first Language and some of your sentences are really hard to Understand without context ...
-You concluded that this is an reintroduction Arc for Dream and its mechanics for the Quest in preparation for further exploration. - I Agree
-You want us to have a solid foundation with the Dreaming Moon aspect of Dream because that is what we started out with. -I can see why but i don't think other influences need to be inherently bad
-You see the Option to go join the Party a a safe option to further our understanding of Dream as a place in relation to the Dreaming Moon with the resources at our disposal. -I Agree
-You see the Skeleton as the option that is not Dreaming Moon and hence does not further your goal of keeping this journey coherent. - i Don't Agree

I see the Skeleton as an unknown, a risk and opportunity. I have no Idea what it is, what it wants and how it could effect us. And that is exiting. Yea it might backfire but that is a risk i am willing to take to see if we can maybe get something new from this encounter.

If my summary is somewhat correct, i can see your reasoning and would probably vote with you. If not for the fact that there is another party on the horizon and alternative would be something other then the Unknown that, from the looks of it, has quite the History.
 
[X] Enjoy the revel, and mingle with the echoes of the long dead and the dream spirits which might wear their faces. (Gain location access, The Fantasian Revel)
 
[x] Enjoy the revel, and mingle with the echoes of the long dead and the dream spirits which might wear their faces. (Gain location access, The Fantasian Revel)

AbeoLogos convinced me.
 
Ahhhhh i think i now understand what you are trying to convey. English is not my first Language and some of your sentences are really hard to Understand without context ...
-You concluded that this is an reintroduction Arc for Dream and its mechanics for the Quest in preparation for further exploration. - I Agree
-You want us to have a solid foundation with the Dreaming Moon aspect of Dream because that is what we started out with. -I can see why but i don't think other influences need to be inherently bad
-You see the Option to go join the Party a a safe option to further our understanding of Dream as a place in relation to the Dreaming Moon with the resources at our disposal. -I Agree
-You see the Skeleton as the option that is not Dreaming Moon and hence does not further your goal of keeping this journey coherent. - i Don't Agree

I see the Skeleton as an unknown, a risk and opportunity. I have no Idea what it is, what it wants and how it could effect us. And that is exiting. Yea it might backfire but that is a risk i am willing to take to see if we can maybe get something new from this encounter.

If my summary is somewhat correct, i can see your reasoning and would probably vote with you. If not for the fact that there is another party on the horizon and alternative would be something other then the Unknown that, from the looks of it, has quite the History.
Fair point on the sentences. I really need to brush up on my writing, in terms of clarity/structure.

You've got the general idea of my position correct. But I'd clarify that I'm not really pro-Dreaming Moon, here. I'm just against doing a sidestep at the start of things like this, because I feel that it makes the narrative less coherent and introduces structural challenges moving forwards that will not be easy to resolve.

I think shifting focus is confusing and unproductive if we do it before we actually look at what we were originally focused on. Especially because the original focus, our miscellaneous Dreaming Moon stuff, is still important. We still want to get back to it, and a lot of its recent development has been about starting to explore the Dream with Sixiang. If we stab out in a random direction instead, there will need to be a lot of work done making sense of that when we do get around to Dreaming Moon things. It means reworking the foundational narratives going into the Dreaming Moon and our working relationship with Sixiang.

That's inefficient and doesn't flow very well. Plus it's extra work. And introduces delays/limits our narrative agility in future Dream activities.

Edit: other influences aren't bad. They're just bad if done "out of order", so to speak.
 
Last edited:
[X] Make for the door, and find what lies behind the throne. (Gain location access, The Shattered Gaol.)

Revels in general should be easy to find in the Dream, even if they aren't a Weilu echo. But this may be our last chance to get some info about the old skeleton.
 
I have been convinced
[x] Enjoy the revel, and mingle with the echoes of the long dead and the dream spirits which might wear their faces. (Gain location access, The Fantasian Revel)
 
I'm pretty sure the Dreaming Moon includes nightmares and that Kongyou is a Dreaming Moon spirit, just not a muse. Ling Qi probably wouldn't say of Kongyou "What was it though, a muse like Sixiang? That didn't seem quite right" if she didn't contain any moon qi. Kongyou also calls Sixiang a "cousin".
 
[X] Make for the door, and find what lies behind the throne. (Gain location access, The Shattered Gaol.)

Revels in general should be easy to find in the Dream, even if they aren't a Weilu echo. But this may be our last chance to get some info about the old skeleton.
I'm glad you're voting for the option I want, but I'm really baffled by people thinking this. We got a teaser on the skeleton mystery just a couple chapters ago when we grabbed the idol, if that's not a reassurance from Yrsillar that it's still relevant I don't know what is. And before that we got a teaser about the skeleton moving sometime around the conclusion of the ice diplomacy arc IIRC? This is not something that just got introduced 100 chapters ago and never mentioned again, people need to calm down with retcon panic.
 
I'm glad you're voting for the option I want, but I'm really baffled by people thinking this. We got a teaser on the skeleton mystery just a couple chapters ago when we grabbed the idol, if that's not a reassurance from Yrsillar that it's still relevant I don't know what is. And before that we got a teaser about the skeleton moving sometime around the conclusion of the ice diplomacy arc IIRC? This is not something that just got introduced 100 chapters ago and never mentioned again, people need to calm down with retcon panic.

The problem is that its difficult to figure out whether not choosing something will result in it never showing up again (LQ meeting her mother's friends, introducing Su Ling to the sparring practice group) or whether its just a vote to not have it be right now.

On a different note, I think there's also a nice arc of LQ being introduced to Nightmare of the Burning Grove by the Hidden Moon, being drawn to him in the Dream, mastering the lessons that he teaches (whether as a mentor or an adversary), and finally applying them with the nightmare den. This feels like a more natural way for LQ, who has always been about reaching out to the isolated, to learn about the dream than a revel. A shattered place of imprisonment also speaks to our desire for Freedom.

PLR and revelry in general, on the other hand, has long felt awkward. Sure its better to actually explore the thematic depth of one's cultivation and Dream has been mostly ignored but a loud party of anonymous spirits is a messy fit at best. Yrsillar's attempts to make it work (the dancing forest animals) nonetheless has it take on rather nightmare-ish qualities. The popular "alone in a crowd" interpretation also does that. Why not try to learn more about the darker parts of the Dreaming Moon than continue to try to force ourselves into the brighter parts?

Also I want LQ to trap people in nightmare realms where their own personal failings end up being their own undoing and this seems like a good step in that path.
 
Last edited:
Listen if Diablo can do it to the Nephilim we should be able to do it too. Its part of my ongoing mission to make LQ into a midboss.

Midboss? For now perhaps but I think we can shoot for a little higher. We can be the final gatekeeper to the EndBoss (CRX once she's duchess). Wouldn't that be funny (in this fictional video game about fictional characters) if the characters the up to beat Ling Qi and then immediately have to fight CRX with her totally different skill set.

Although to be frank, that might be a pointless thought because wouldn't we fight along side CRX as we have done in the past? Back onto the actual quest, we haven't really had a chance to see ourselves stand (fly, whatever) with CRX in a real fight. At the caldera we were kinda divided doing different things. Since we are going to be retainers/friends for basically forever is there any way for us to look into working with CRX. Maybe a narrative action to practice with her or choose a Sect War assignment together?
 
The Cobbler and the Viper Part 2.
The lithe figure in black darted to the side as a gigantic hoof crashed down on the ground where she had stood, cratering the ground. From the stirred up earth, roots erupted and grew in fast motion, coiling together into the rude shapes of thorn studded men, who reached and grasped for the retreating girl.

Xiao Fen abruptly stopped in her backward flight, heel digging a trench in the soft earth as she lashed out at the crowding root men. Wood crunched and bark shattered under the force of knee and elbow strikes as the girl carved a narrow channel through the living wave of energy, cold black flames leaving burning trails in the air where her limbs passed. She reached the hoof, even now lifting back off the ground trailing clods of earth as the gigantic boar it was attached too snorted and tossed it's moss covered head.

She leapt and her hands blurred striking a half dozen times at a single point in the beast of stone and wood's leg, leaving first a hairline crack, and then a crevice, and then at last a fissure, splintering up the offending limb. Not a single time during any of that did her expression change, nor did she indicate that she even felt the wound in her thigh that was staining her gown red.

Then Liu Xin had to duck under the swinging arm of a vine man, and he nearly stumbled as the ground under his feet tried to trip him up. No matter how you looked at it, Xiao Fen was a frightening girl, even when she was on your side. He eyed his own enemies, a mix of summoned root men and stone guardian animals carved from mossy stone. It looked like even if the Elder who set up this trial gave some weight to other things, they just hadn't been able to help themselves with a combat challenge.

He felt himself grinning as he ducked and wove through the dumb constructs, his every footstep kicking up a plume of fine dust as qi pulsed through his legs, at last, he found a moment a respite as he dove and rolled to his feet on the other side of the encircling foe, and brought his foot down with a hard stomp, even more fine, choking dust erupting outward in a ringer. In his clenched hands, fiery stars bloomed and he threw out his hands.

The world turned white as the dust detonated, and Liu Xin's eyes did not even water. He'd gotten better at scrapping as an immortal after all. As the force of the blast rippled out through his bones.

Xiao Fen landed beside him, expressionless and unruffled, and behind her the stone boar turned ponderous and unsteady, favoring its right leg. His eyes widened as it lowered its head to charge, and yet Xiao Fen met his alarmed gaze without concern.

The sound of stone cracking shook the clearing, and the boar wobbled on its feet as across its body, new vents hissed and released black smoke. It took a single step forward, fury burning its crystal eyes before parts of its body began to bulge outward. The whole clearing shook as the beast exploded violently into an explosion of black flame and chaotic qi scattering shrapnel and gravel.

"...That's a new one," Liu Xin said, wincing as he lowered his arms from in front of his face.

"The Twenty Six Ruinous Touches art is passed from the teachings of Yao himself," Xiao Fen replied blandly. "It is not for use on targets which you wish to live."

That'd explain why he'd not seen it before, but on the other hand…

"You just mastered it huh?" Liu Xin said.

Xiao Fen did not visibly react. "That is correct. Your eye for energies is improving."

Liu Xin merely grunted, peering around the now quiet clearing. "Is that wound gonna be okay. I've got medicine. 'S my fault you got hurt saving me earlier anyway."

"I have already disabled the pain receptors in my leg," Xiao Fen replied. "And this is your trial, it is only sensible to preserve your capacity for action over mine."

"Right, and it's only sensible to make sure you're not hindered in the rest of the trial too," Liu Xin replied. He was familiar with how you argued with her by now.

Xiao Fen pursed her lips, peering suspiciously at the shattered clearing. "Very well. Apply your tincture quickly. We will not be left alone long."

He glanced down at the amount of blood soaked into her gown, and back to her face. Not even a little bothered.

Scary.


***​



Liu Xin collapsed onto the flat stone outside of the trial entrance, grinning fiercely. In one sweaty hand, he held a jade slip containing an art that would finally give him some defenses, and in the other he held a temporary storage bead containing enough stones to fund his craftworks for a month.

"It appears you succeeded, very good," Xiao Fen said.

Tiredly, he turned his head to where she sat on another stone in the hilltop clearing around the stone circle that marked the trial site. "Didn't I tell you to go to the medicine hall after you left?"

"You did. I determined that my bodily regulation art was sufficient," Xiao Fen replied blandly.

He closed his eyes. Somehow, when they had reached the point where one of them needed to go back, part of him had still thought for sure she was going to kick him out. Frankly, he still didn't understand this crazy girl. She didn't make sense. But she'd done exactly what she said she would, and now she'd even sat out here and waited for him to finish.

"Hey Xiao Fen," he said, rolling onto his back to stare up at the stars.

"Yes?" she said.

"You really are serious about being my friend huh?"

"I will fulfill all missions my Mistress gives me," Xiao Fen replied.

He grimaced, that was what she usually said, and it usually creeped him out. Liu Xin found he didn't really buy it though. There was no need to go as far as she did if it was just obligatory. "Yeah, I get that," he said. "Still, thank you."

"You are welcome," she said after a moment. "I am genuinely pleased by your success."

He let out a huff of laughter under his breath. "What're your parents like, Xiao Fen?"

"What an odd question for this venue, Liu Xin," Xiao Fen said.

"Well you badgered me about my family when we were having tea," Liu Xin grunted. He'd been too afraid not to answer, and too nervous to ask any questions back. That had been a real awkward tea time. "Seems like I should catch up."

Xiao Fen was silent for a time. "I had assumed I had made errors in establishing rapport, but it seems that you were simply shy, Liu Xin."

Sure, he would go with that.

"Unfortunately I cannot answer your query. I do not have parents," Xiao Fen said casually.

He winced. Well fuckin it up from the word go. Maybe his old man was right about him. "Oh shit, sorry. I didn't mean-"

Xiao Fen shook her head. "No, your assumption is wrong. No Xiao clan Bai have parents. Filial relationships would interfere with our duties."

He sat up, looking at her strangely. "Wait, who took care of you then. How does that even work?"

"The clan arranges for caretakers, who are swiftly rotated between the current generation of children to avoid any unnecessary attachments from forming," she said, pausing after a moment. "This is not a secret topic, but it is somewhat complex and lengthy. I believe it would be better to discuss the matter in more comfortable conditions."

"Right," Liu Xin blew out an explosive breath. So much for understanding her better. This was going to be a project.

He'd make it work though.
 
"Find some people you can trust and stick with them."

"Quite," Bai Meizhen added. "Unprecedented situations sometimes call for unprecedented solutions. Heed her Xiao Fen."
"I will fulfill all missions my Mistress gives me," Xiao Fen replied.
[snip]
So much for understanding her better. This was going to be a project.

He'd make it work though.
Liu Xin wants to be Xiao Fen's friend. Mission Success!
 
Wow Meizhen really is the best snek. She ordered her XiaoBai to form friendships and thus become more capable in informal situations as well as more capable of developing networks of her own accord which will increase her exposure to new situations and struggles on top of the material support available to a larger network.

And it feels good! <3 yayyy Frandship
 
Never had the iron grip of the Bai been so tight, as it was after the ascension of the Duchess Meizhen, whose seminal work "how to make friends and influence people" would lead her clan to ever greater lengths to form and maintain control of their subjects.
 
Last edited:
Wow Meizhen really is the best snek. She ordered her XiaoBai to form friendships and thus become more capable in informal situations as well as more capable of developing networks of her own accord which will increase her exposure to new situations and struggles on top of the material support available to a larger network.

"All according to Keikaku." -The image of Bai Meizhen in Xiao Fen's head. Sasuga Meizhen-sama!
 
Back
Top