- Location
- Athens, Greece
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] There is an abandoned manor on a southern baron's lands left behind during a post Ogodei invasion which he would like exorcised and demolished.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Path of Ice and Iron
- Location
- United States of America
Path of Ice and Iron
Let us continue our studies by turning our attention to one of the more recent, yet prominent, trade routes that wind its way through our Empire. Well known by the moniker it was given by traders throughout the Emerald Sea, this "Path of Ice and Iron" connects the foreign peoples of the far south of our Empire, beyond even the mountainous Wall, to various provinces and beyond. The Emerald Seas, the Thousand Lakes, and the Savage Sea all lay along this trade route. Other provinces make use of the goods and wealth that flow along the route as well, most notably the Golden Fields, by enticing pro-active traders with materials that the foreigners south of the Wall desire. Xuan traders also make sure that the products of the far south find foreign hands as well, the wealth of Khem and Bantu both via for otherwise inaccessible materials, and the Polar Nations of the south are willing to pay exorbitant amounts for the sun-drenched spices of those lands.
That is not to say that all appreciate the wealth that this trade route brings. Various factions among the Bai are known to grumble about the traditions being breached and foreign influences intruding upon their land. Zheng of The Ebon Rivers protest mightly from their cavernous caves about this route, not for any sensible reason mind you, but because the wealth makes cultivators less inclined to martial pursuits and more inclined to civil. At least that is what they claim. A few preliminary studies have not been able to show any conclusive results one way or another. The most ardent detractors of the route, however, are Jin from the Alabaster Sands. The Jin decry this route as morally degrading to the provinces of the Empire, of assisting barbarians in their preparations to war against good citizens of the Empire, of destroying local economic centers by disincentivizing their local produce in favor of exotic goods. Studies funded by Jin have conclusively pointed to the harm this route causes, and have of course been summarily figuratively torn to shreds by scholars who are in favor of the route.
The Celestial Peaks are the one province that has not leaned one way or the other on the matter of this trade route. Predominately because the various Emperors and Empresses who have ruled over our land after the route was established have stuck to ancient policy and precedent. That the provinces of the Empire are free to engage with non-barbarous foreigners however they see fit. Such was the precedent set by the Jin and Xuan, such was the precedent enforced with the Cai. That is not to say that the Imperial persons have not benefited from this route. No, the wealth that flows into Imperial coffers because of the Path of Ice and Iron has been well utilized to continue the personal and political projects of the Imperial Throne.
Yet, a question for the astute-minded among you remains regarding this trade route. What, exactly, travels along this path? Everything travels along the roads and rivers that make up this route, items that may be considered sundry by the common imperial citizen have a high demand in the Polar Nations. In particular demand is wood, both hard and soft, and tea which the Emerald Seas is happy to provide and which the Polar Nations pay in metals of all types. But more exotic goods also flow from those lands to the Empire and from the Empire to the Polar Nation. Pearls from the fisherman of the Thousand Lakes fetch high prices to the south, as well as gems and jewels from the Golden Fields, imbued with heat from the Sun. Traders of the Savage Seas provide preserved fish bones of all types, from mundane to exotic. From Khem and Bantu come the formerly mentioned sun-drenched spices and other exotic materials. Common metals are not sufficient for these types of goods, no matter in what quantity, but the Polar Nations are more than willing to provide exotic materials of their own. Eternal ice which never melts, wisps of clouds which have never seen the sun, and bones of animals which have never been seen north of the wall. More valuable than the goods which flow though, in this scholar's opinion, is the exchange of knowledge.
Imperial astrologers have been able to correlate their findings with astrologers from the Polar Nations creating new more dynamic charts of the sky, assisting them in making ever more accurate predictions of future events. Furthermore, various minor sects have sprouted up with endorsement of the Cai, Ling, and Wang seeking to understand and exploit the inferior, albeit exotic, cultivation methods of the Peoples south of the Wall to develop exciting new methodologies for walking the path of cultivation. While success has been limited, each success opens up new doors of possibility which the minor sects are exploring to their limits. Another aspect of the Polar Nations which is being investigated, even by the Argent Sect, is the runic works which is an inferior replacement to our formation work. However, while inferior, their runes showcase interesting manipulations of qi allowing for breakthroughs in creating more stable, long-lasting, formation work which requires minimal work in maintaining.
Turning our attention now to those who benefit the most from this Path of Ice and Iron, we will speak of the Ling clan, direct vassals of the Cai, the Dukes and Duchesses of the Emerald Seas. While most well known for their relation to the Living Mountain, many branches of the Ling clan have strong relations with the religious authorities and diplomatic ambassadors of the Polar Nation, placing them in a premier position as guides, translators, and advocates for the traders who ply their wares in that region. Other branches of the Ling have been charged with protecting the route through the Wall, ensuring that the Cloud Nomads do not interfere with trade, and keeping the unruly spirits of the area pacified and content. Their most prominent role, however, is the enforcement of Cai tariffs and customs for trade through the region, ensuring that the Cai know exactly what is leaving their province and what is entering it. Through this role, the Ling have become much more wealthy than what their status as viscounts might suggest, outside even their relationship with the Living Mountain.
It is through this wealth that the Ling have undertaken grand construction projects, most notably the Road of Iron, a massive road construction project based upon sound geomantic principles, iron sourced from the Polar Nations, and local stone to create spiritual stability in an unstable region with the goal of providing a main thoroughfare through the Wall for travelers and traders to use. This massive project is also not the only construction the Ling are contemplating using their wealth and influence on either. Whispers come from the Dust of Ages Sect that members of the Ling clan have used their vast wealth to purchase insight into ever more esoteric means of construction in the Liminal Realm. Other tales tell of a blueprint that has received approval from the Cai for a palace constructed within the Liminal Realm itself. Tales that seem truer every day as potent materials known to be of use in the Liminal realm flow to the Living Mountain in an ever-increasing stream.
But such wealth and influence do not come without a price. Already this scholar has seen plans drafted by nobles of the Celestial Peaks to increase taxes upon the Ling, seeking precedent to promote their agenda. The Jin also have an unnerving distaste for the Ling, seeking to stymie any contact between them and the Dust of Ages sect. It is no surprise, then, that the number of audits performed against the Ling by the Ministry of Integrity has increased dramatically. But through these troubles, the Ling has ceaselessly worked to increase the prosperity and power of their clan. The only question is whether the Ling can secure enough wealth and influence to keep their detractors at bay before their opponents can find a way to leash the power of the Ling.
A/N: @yrsillar another omake for the omake throne! This is a take on a far future Ling Clan and if the diplomacy between the Polar Nations and the Emerald Seas is able to come to fruition with consistent trade between the two polities, and beyond. I hope you enjoyed the read!
Let us continue our studies by turning our attention to one of the more recent, yet prominent, trade routes that wind its way through our Empire. Well known by the moniker it was given by traders throughout the Emerald Sea, this "Path of Ice and Iron" connects the foreign peoples of the far south of our Empire, beyond even the mountainous Wall, to various provinces and beyond. The Emerald Seas, the Thousand Lakes, and the Savage Sea all lay along this trade route. Other provinces make use of the goods and wealth that flow along the route as well, most notably the Golden Fields, by enticing pro-active traders with materials that the foreigners south of the Wall desire. Xuan traders also make sure that the products of the far south find foreign hands as well, the wealth of Khem and Bantu both via for otherwise inaccessible materials, and the Polar Nations of the south are willing to pay exorbitant amounts for the sun-drenched spices of those lands.
That is not to say that all appreciate the wealth that this trade route brings. Various factions among the Bai are known to grumble about the traditions being breached and foreign influences intruding upon their land. Zheng of The Ebon Rivers protest mightly from their cavernous caves about this route, not for any sensible reason mind you, but because the wealth makes cultivators less inclined to martial pursuits and more inclined to civil. At least that is what they claim. A few preliminary studies have not been able to show any conclusive results one way or another. The most ardent detractors of the route, however, are Jin from the Alabaster Sands. The Jin decry this route as morally degrading to the provinces of the Empire, of assisting barbarians in their preparations to war against good citizens of the Empire, of destroying local economic centers by disincentivizing their local produce in favor of exotic goods. Studies funded by Jin have conclusively pointed to the harm this route causes, and have of course been summarily figuratively torn to shreds by scholars who are in favor of the route.
The Celestial Peaks are the one province that has not leaned one way or the other on the matter of this trade route. Predominately because the various Emperors and Empresses who have ruled over our land after the route was established have stuck to ancient policy and precedent. That the provinces of the Empire are free to engage with non-barbarous foreigners however they see fit. Such was the precedent set by the Jin and Xuan, such was the precedent enforced with the Cai. That is not to say that the Imperial persons have not benefited from this route. No, the wealth that flows into Imperial coffers because of the Path of Ice and Iron has been well utilized to continue the personal and political projects of the Imperial Throne.
Yet, a question for the astute-minded among you remains regarding this trade route. What, exactly, travels along this path? Everything travels along the roads and rivers that make up this route, items that may be considered sundry by the common imperial citizen have a high demand in the Polar Nations. In particular demand is wood, both hard and soft, and tea which the Emerald Seas is happy to provide and which the Polar Nations pay in metals of all types. But more exotic goods also flow from those lands to the Empire and from the Empire to the Polar Nation. Pearls from the fisherman of the Thousand Lakes fetch high prices to the south, as well as gems and jewels from the Golden Fields, imbued with heat from the Sun. Traders of the Savage Seas provide preserved fish bones of all types, from mundane to exotic. From Khem and Bantu come the formerly mentioned sun-drenched spices and other exotic materials. Common metals are not sufficient for these types of goods, no matter in what quantity, but the Polar Nations are more than willing to provide exotic materials of their own. Eternal ice which never melts, wisps of clouds which have never seen the sun, and bones of animals which have never been seen north of the wall. More valuable than the goods which flow though, in this scholar's opinion, is the exchange of knowledge.
Imperial astrologers have been able to correlate their findings with astrologers from the Polar Nations creating new more dynamic charts of the sky, assisting them in making ever more accurate predictions of future events. Furthermore, various minor sects have sprouted up with endorsement of the Cai, Ling, and Wang seeking to understand and exploit the inferior, albeit exotic, cultivation methods of the Peoples south of the Wall to develop exciting new methodologies for walking the path of cultivation. While success has been limited, each success opens up new doors of possibility which the minor sects are exploring to their limits. Another aspect of the Polar Nations which is being investigated, even by the Argent Sect, is the runic works which is an inferior replacement to our formation work. However, while inferior, their runes showcase interesting manipulations of qi allowing for breakthroughs in creating more stable, long-lasting, formation work which requires minimal work in maintaining.
Turning our attention now to those who benefit the most from this Path of Ice and Iron, we will speak of the Ling clan, direct vassals of the Cai, the Dukes and Duchesses of the Emerald Seas. While most well known for their relation to the Living Mountain, many branches of the Ling clan have strong relations with the religious authorities and diplomatic ambassadors of the Polar Nation, placing them in a premier position as guides, translators, and advocates for the traders who ply their wares in that region. Other branches of the Ling have been charged with protecting the route through the Wall, ensuring that the Cloud Nomads do not interfere with trade, and keeping the unruly spirits of the area pacified and content. Their most prominent role, however, is the enforcement of Cai tariffs and customs for trade through the region, ensuring that the Cai know exactly what is leaving their province and what is entering it. Through this role, the Ling have become much more wealthy than what their status as viscounts might suggest, outside even their relationship with the Living Mountain.
It is through this wealth that the Ling have undertaken grand construction projects, most notably the Road of Iron, a massive road construction project based upon sound geomantic principles, iron sourced from the Polar Nations, and local stone to create spiritual stability in an unstable region with the goal of providing a main thoroughfare through the Wall for travelers and traders to use. This massive project is also not the only construction the Ling are contemplating using their wealth and influence on either. Whispers come from the Dust of Ages Sect that members of the Ling clan have used their vast wealth to purchase insight into ever more esoteric means of construction in the Liminal Realm. Other tales tell of a blueprint that has received approval from the Cai for a palace constructed within the Liminal Realm itself. Tales that seem truer every day as potent materials known to be of use in the Liminal realm flow to the Living Mountain in an ever-increasing stream.
But such wealth and influence do not come without a price. Already this scholar has seen plans drafted by nobles of the Celestial Peaks to increase taxes upon the Ling, seeking precedent to promote their agenda. The Jin also have an unnerving distaste for the Ling, seeking to stymie any contact between them and the Dust of Ages sect. It is no surprise, then, that the number of audits performed against the Ling by the Ministry of Integrity has increased dramatically. But through these troubles, the Ling has ceaselessly worked to increase the prosperity and power of their clan. The only question is whether the Ling can secure enough wealth and influence to keep their detractors at bay before their opponents can find a way to leash the power of the Ling.
A/N: @yrsillar another omake for the omake throne! This is a take on a far future Ling Clan and if the diplomacy between the Polar Nations and the Emerald Seas is able to come to fruition with consistent trade between the two polities, and beyond. I hope you enjoyed the read!
Are you guys sure that the Bao have serious stakes on Ling Qi? I was under the impression that this was mostly Bao Qian's decision and the clan simply approves of this, if they aren't in a wait-and-see stance.
Very nice!👍🏻
Very nice!👍🏻
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
No, it's a clan-level "foreign policy" decision.
Bao Quan is the heir of the clan. We met him in Forge of Destiny, during the year-end tournament. And then Qian said this when we met him:
So this looks like a clan decision that forming a marriage alliance with Ling Qi would be worth it to them, followed by figuring out exactly which eligible bachelor would be their candidate. I wouldn't call say they have stakes -- it's not like the clan is relying on this marriage alliance going through -- but they're playing the game the same way they'd make a marriage alliance with a powerful noble family, and that indicates how serious they are about this. A count clan is offering to marry into a fresh baronial clan. And as people have posted, it makes sense for them, because they can gain from that marriage regardless of whether we flame out (as most fresh barons do) or CRX's star continues to rise and ours with hers.
Last edited:
- Location
- United States of America
Thank you!
- Location
- Colorado
[X] There is an old mine in the east which needs both checking for renewed deposits and cleared of spirits and wildlife.
Flop Flip.
Flop Flip.
I completely agree, the Bao Qian romance is working out like the Cai route did back in forge and is getting an enormous advantage that is starting to feel like the QM playing favorites.
I can only hope the end of year tournament at the sect introduces at least one more suitor to Ling Qi and he gets the advantage of her being a little more used to dates so she wont get such a bad first impression.
I'm certain that if no new male characters are introduced soon Bao Qian's first mover advantage will get near impossible to overcome due to simple logistics : the voters will keep getting more info about him in updates and we will always know a lot less about the ones that were introduced later on.
Ling Qi could end up with someone else but it would take yrsillar actively giving new characters insane amounts of screen time to simply catch up. It could come in the form of a fun entrance to the story full of cool moments, or an backstory that really tears at the heart of the voters, but the big thing is that the new characters have to come soon or the one with the most scenes will win by default.
Meng Dan was a step in the right direction when it comes to male characters getting fun introductions, but due to his potential position as one of CRX's retainers he would not make a good match politically (same problem as Gan Guangli basically).
Last edited:
- Location
- Finland
Honestly, i am fine there never being a second suitor.
Romance is among the least important of my interests in the story, and as head of a clan it will always be atleast partially influenced by pure practicality, and i don't really see getting a better suitor than a talented scion of a count clan, and having people compete for Ling Qi's favour would get old fast.
Romance is among the least important of my interests in the story, and as head of a clan it will always be atleast partially influenced by pure practicality, and i don't really see getting a better suitor than a talented scion of a count clan, and having people compete for Ling Qi's favour would get old fast.
Last edited:
I dont care much about romance either my problem is more with how this problem is reccuring in this quest :
- The Cai route got so many of it's advantages and characters detailed in updates while the others were either uncompetitive (Gu) or not even allowed to describe their advantages (sect with Xin explicitly forbidden to try and convince LQ, ministries)
- The ice diplomacy got an entire adventure arc that lasted for month IRL and an interlude alluding to it back at the end of forge while the details of the intersect competion were never defined by yrsillar despite being LQ's supposed main objective for almost a year.
- Bao Qian is getting at least one appearance a turn since his introduction (more then some of LQ's best friends) while his theoretical opposition does not even exist.
- Location
- Finland
Not really seeing the problem.
Do you just want suitors for the sake of suitors?
Iceplomacy route was an outcome of several decisions over time we made, many of them with no idea they would lead to it.
Cai v sect may have been somewhat slanted in Cai's favour, but as someone who wanted sect route i do think that the vote was not that unfair.
I think trying to make everything a balanced option with information parity would negatively impact the narrative, and personally i am largely fine with the way votes have been done so far.
Do you just want suitors for the sake of suitors?
Iceplomacy route was an outcome of several decisions over time we made, many of them with no idea they would lead to it.
Cai v sect may have been somewhat slanted in Cai's favour, but as someone who wanted sect route i do think that the vote was not that unfair.
I think trying to make everything a balanced option with information parity would negatively impact the narrative, and personally i am largely fine with the way votes have been done so far.
- Location
- Who Knows
Weighing in on shipping talk, personally I'm still most interested in my darling handsome moon ab Senior Brother Liao Zhu~
I thought their interactions were fun and they had chemistry lol. It was pointed out a bit that he was treating her with a bit of a light touch because of her particular social traumas and I enjoyed the light flirtatious nature of his banter while also not being super heavy or weighed with expectation? I like aloof mentor types too, sue me.
Honestly, at this point, I'd personally also be down for Ling Qi and Sixiang endgame, because I just think Li Qing works well with characters that are more light and willing to tease her lol. (And Sixiang has the narrative benefit of a character that we can't lose focus on in conjunction with our voting choices lmaooooooo)
For me, Li QIng being paired with characters that are a bit more "reserved/practical/down to earth zoned" feels narratively boring, because they don't bring much in terms of personality to her menagerie. This was my issue with Xuan Wu, and this is my issue with Bao Qian too. Lin Qi's already kind of an air-heady, nose to the grindmill, gloomy kind of girl, so it's much more interesting for me to see her getting either poked fun of, or fired up.
I want someone who'd tease our airhead.
I thought their interactions were fun and they had chemistry lol. It was pointed out a bit that he was treating her with a bit of a light touch because of her particular social traumas and I enjoyed the light flirtatious nature of his banter while also not being super heavy or weighed with expectation? I like aloof mentor types too, sue me.
Honestly, at this point, I'd personally also be down for Ling Qi and Sixiang endgame, because I just think Li Qing works well with characters that are more light and willing to tease her lol. (And Sixiang has the narrative benefit of a character that we can't lose focus on in conjunction with our voting choices lmaooooooo)
For me, Li QIng being paired with characters that are a bit more "reserved/practical/down to earth zoned" feels narratively boring, because they don't bring much in terms of personality to her menagerie. This was my issue with Xuan Wu, and this is my issue with Bao Qian too. Lin Qi's already kind of an air-heady, nose to the grindmill, gloomy kind of girl, so it's much more interesting for me to see her getting either poked fun of, or fired up.
I want someone who'd tease our airhead.
I just want there to actually be a choice when it comes to major things like who Ling Qi will make alliances with.
The Bao Qian situation is starting to chafe because i find him the most boring cultivator to read about, if we had an option to read about what he does with formations i would not be so annoyed, but reading about buisness deals is probably the least fun thing you can do with him and it's what we have gotten for about half his scenes.
And i dont want suitors for the sake of suitors i want them for the sake of worldbuilding, the first one getting more then 10 dedicated updates before another is introduced is insane to me when you consider how marriage deals for new barons have been described by CRX, i was expecting the Luo to send one crazy fast when you consider the political implications of the right hand of the provincilal heir being courted by the northern merchants, it would also allow us to see another side of that clan after the Luo Zhong "politics is a zero summ game" party debacle.
The thing about romance is that due to Ling Qi's issues with romance any prospective suitor that shows up before Ling Qi makes a ton of progress there is either going to run face first into a hidden minefield and torpedo their chances more or less permanently or they end up being essentially Bao Qian clones due to the constraints of what sort of character Ling Qi could use for resolving her issues.
Bao Qian isn't so much an actual suitor at this point so much as a romantic scratching post necessary for teaching Ling Qi how to not claw hercouch potential Husbando to bits.
Bao Qian isn't so much an actual suitor at this point so much as a romantic scratching post necessary for teaching Ling Qi how to not claw her
- Location
- Finland
As i previously stated, Bao sending anyone, is kinda unexpected.
Ling Qi is a new baron, so conventional wisdom is she is not going to last.
But she is also the retainer of the ducal heir, and direct vassal of the Cai, making trying to absorb her clan potentially risky.
A count clan offering a son to a baronial clan is rarer than hens teeth, and lesser clans will have trouble offering her anything worth her time (due to the whole direct vassal and retainer thing), she is also quite young, and her status as a baron is very new.
I would not be surprised if we started to see some careful offers after the sect tournament and as we start to setup our fief.
But i would not be surprised if not.
Ling Qi is an oddity among nobles, and most clans will have little idea what to offer.
Last edited:
- Location
- scrabbling
[X] There is an old mine in the east which needs both checking for renewed deposits and cleared of spirits and wildlife.
I may as well actually vote while I'm stoking a fire about how votes function in the quest lol
I am a fan of the Zhengui/geological renewal line of thinking
I may as well actually vote while I'm stoking a fire about how votes function in the quest lol
I am a fan of the Zhengui/geological renewal line of thinking
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
- Hawaii
I'm curious as to whose perspective this is being written from. It sounds like it's being told by a scholar outside the clans mentioned. But they're publishing hearsay and conjecture on important secret projects that the Ling Clan are working on, which would probably get them ticked off at this scholar when they found out about it. Seems like a pointless risk given the descriptions of the Ling's wealth and influence. There's a reason that imperial publications are usually more circumspect in what they say and how they phrase it.
I don't think this is a feasible thing given the feudal structure we operate under? I thought that taxes and influence go up and down through the different levels of the hierarchy. So as direct vassals of the Cai, the Ling's taxes go to them (hence why the Cai have exempted Ling Qi from taxes for a certain period of time as part of her vassalage deal), then the Cai's taxes go to the Imperial Throne. So non-royal Celestial Peaks noble clans would have no authority to dictate the Ling clan's taxes, and any attempts to apply such pressures behind the Cai's back would be a grave affront on the Cai's authority over their direct vassal that would have the Cai bureaucratically punch them in the face.
DeusExBritannia
Red-White-Black-White
- Location
- Texas
I've always favored Sixiang as a partner for Ling Qi over all the other suitors. They have great chemistry, similar interests, and Sixiang is always present, so they'll never want for narrative space. They greatly help Ling Qi with her introspection and understand her better than most people probably ever will, and even from a purely mechanical point of view, they give her bonuses to cultivating Moon and Music Arts, which are central to her build. They fit Ling Qi like a glove, so it's honestly rather baffling that there doesn't seem to be more support for them from the players when just about everyone in the thread seems to like them.
- Location
- United States of America
Thanks for the questions!
As to the first, this isn't an official publication, but a tutor teaching some low-ranked noble children. He's just meandering from topic to topic haphazardly, and he's not that great of a teacher.
For the second question, you are probably correct in that any pressure by a singular Celestial Peak clan to tax the Ling would not end very well given the hierarchal nature of feudalism. So a standard tax for using the property and being a vassal couldn't be applied by an outside force. However, we have seen that the Imperial tax system is a confusing mess based on the charm that was presented for competition in the Argent Peak Inner Sect Tournament. Probably even more confusing then modern tax codes!
This gives a lot of flexibility on how to subtly tax organizations or other clans if you can get it approved in the Imperial Tax code. Luxury taxes, creating monopolies on certain goods and licensing the ability to trade that good, fees, regulations, all of which can be used to cause burdensome trouble for a clan that controls an entry point for goods.
- Location
- Finland
Six reads more like a sibling to me, so trying to date them would feel weird, even outside all of Ling Qi's hangups.
And i kinda enjoy the pure non romantic friendships Ling Qi has lot more than any potential romance.
deadcrystal
Slaaneshi Cultist
- Location
- The Warp
I'd think the Polar Gate through which Demons From Beyond seek to infiltrate the world by possessing and manipulating the weak willed and against which all four of the Ice Clans eternally guard against would get a mention.
Ignorance or a proscribed topic forbidden from general discussion?
There is definitely a faction in the thread that supports a Sixiang Husbando option, but people can really like Sixiang without trying to ship them. There are obstacles to that relationship in the first place. CRX is generally very permissive with us but even she might have a problem with all of the diplomatic issues we'd be creating by not marrying anyone that would bring connections into our budding clan and I know Qi isn't liked by the conservatives in the first place but marrying moon spirit instead of a human might be too much for even most moderates. Now if the thread really wants this can be overcome obviously, but I still don't get a romantic vibe from between the two, I get more of a sibling vibe like Valmond has said before.