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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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The way I see it, the natural way to use formations is as something analogous to acoustics: Ling Qi would be learning how to modify areas to serve different purposes. This would likely be built off of her domain giving her extra composure in "her" spaces.

The first type of formation would thus be proccing that effect intentionally: she learns how to make formations that together allow her to feel comfortable saying "this is mine".
This would be followed by defining the nature of the space more specifically: "this is my family dining room", "this is my audience chamber", or "this is my bedroom".
She could then learn how to make spaces interact with her powers differently: perhaps an area naturally reduces them to make it comfortable for mortals to approach or helps make her techs take effect over a larger area or otherwise be stronger in some way.

Naturally these sorts of effects would have consequences for security but that would not be the core of what we would be doing. There would also be some overlap with geomancy as obviously you'd be wanting to make rooms face the correct ways for their uses and have the contents be in agreeable locations.

Of course we are not the only ones that use formations. This sort of focus could then expand formation bypass into a larger ability to subvert formations, seizing control over spaces that others had taken for themselves ("this is not yours, it is mine"). At the very least we should be able to learn more about how a space was used and what kind of people lived there by seeing how they adapted it to fit their needs. On a practical level the more powerful versions of this sort of approach would be analogous to someone killing a golem by changing the word for "truth" to "death".
 
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TimEd said:
At least the dude was able to resist the temptations and had to be buried in books to be downed.

Nice Omake. I wonder why the illusion showed him that fight with Liu Xin. Was it just to bring him off balance?
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Mainly I just like battles. But I was riffing off the cobbler and the viper. After Bai Xiao Fen whooped him so hard his mommy called the school, I figured Hou Jin held a grudge. The unfairness, grudge match and resources were carrots tempting Jin to willingly linger in the dream. When he wised up to the carrots, he got the stick.
 
The idea of musical formations has some promise from a narrative perspective, as it can be expressed as scene dressing, with short descriptions of far-off ethereal music filling the dead air during tense scenes. Essentially giving areas their own background music.
 
Okay folks, gonna be honest this one needs a bit more time in the oven and I'm a bit busy. After this week I'll be fully moved into my new house so I things will be a bit less hectic. The plan here is going to be delaying this weeks updates a day most likely so Wednesday and Saturday, returning to normal schedule next week.
 
Couldn't figure out where to fit it into my monster post, but one of the main draws to Musical formations for me is how I imagine it to differ from contemporary imperial standard formations. One of the really great things about modern formations is how well they can be packaged, even into highly portable limited-use shells, or tied off with spirit stone power supplies mostly independent of local conditions. This is super convenient in a whole lot of ways, but... I'm not interested in us working with the craft in that way. And if we do need it, it's something we can purchase since off-the-shelf availability is one of the comparative advantages of the modern norm.

Music is essentially performance, which affects my expectations for formations rooted in it. I don't expect music formation work to lend itself to hasty deployment, like how someone like Xuan Shi can pull complex ready-made formulas out of his brain and slap them on the ground with a slam of his staff. Performance isn't instant, it's a process of buildup and layering, etc. It might not take a lot of time, but I expect Music formations to resist being packaged in the same way as standard formations. Musical performance is impacted by the stage you use, meaning the environment has to be taken into careful consideration, especially for long-term effects. Performance is impermanent by nature; establishing persistent effects with music formations is creating a persistent performance, which sounds like a finicky and potentially fragile process.

These limitations are good things. They naturally bias Ling Qi's formations work away from things we don't want it to focus on, like combat or crafting, and towards things that we do want her to focus on, like geomancy and spirit diplomacy. Large-scale and permanent musical formations would effectively be Ling Qi negotiating the environment itself into, literally, a form of focused harmony. It's cool as fuck!

It's also something I like because it makes formations something she does rather than something she makes. It's a fine distinction in ways, but her formations work being an action she takes is more engaging and narratively prominent. This is the reason I want to focus on Mischief as well, because it roots the craft in the dynamism of action. And the characterization of its use is just fun. A large-scale defensive formation? Now it's a heist she's planning with the natural eddies and currents of the terrain's qi, from the placid spirits of rock and valley to the momentary sprites of wind playing through the swaying boughs of the forest between. A lock formation? Something Ling Qi picks with the musical notes of a thief's laughter itself.

Ahhh, it's so cool guys. It's just unbelievably rad and hilarious!
 
AbeoLogos said:
Couldn't figure out where to fit it into my monster post, but one of the main draws to Musical formations for me is how I imagine it to differ from contemporary imperial standard formations. One of the really great things about modern formations is how well they can be packaged, even into highly portable limited-use shells, or tied off with spirit stone power supplies mostly independent of local conditions. This is super convenient in a whole lot of ways, but... I'm not interested in us working with the craft in that way. And if we do need it, it's something we can purchase since off-the-shelf availability is one of the comparative advantages of the modern norm.

Music is essentially performance, which affects my expectations for formations rooted in it. I don't expect music formation work to lend itself to hasty deployment, like how someone like Xuan Shi can pull complex ready-made formulas out of his brain and slap them on the ground with a slam of his staff. Performance isn't instant, it's a process of buildup and layering, etc. It might not take a lot of time, but I expect Music formations to resist being packaged in the same way as standard formations. Musical performance is impacted by the stage you use, meaning the environment has to be taken into careful consideration, especially for long-term effects. Performance is impermanent by nature; establishing persistent effects with music formations is creating a persistent performance, which sounds like a finicky and potentially fragile process.

These limitations are good things. They naturally bias Ling Qi's formations work away from things we don't want it to focus on, like combat or crafting, and towards things that we do want her to focus on, like geomancy and spirit diplomacy. Large-scale and permanent musical formations would effectively be Ling Qi negotiating the environment itself into, literally, a form of focused harmony. It's cool as fuck!

It's also something I like because it makes formations something she does rather than something she makes. It's a fine distinction in ways, but her formations work being an action she takes is more engaging and narratively prominent. This is the reason I want to focus on Mischief as well, because it roots the craft in the dynamism of action. And the characterization of its use is just fun. A large-scale defensive formation? Now it's a heist she's planning with the natural eddies and currents of the terrain's qi, from the placid spirits of rock and valley to the momentary sprites of wind playing through the swaying boughs of the forest between. A lock formation? Something Ling Qi picks with the musical notes of a thief's laughter itself.

Ahhh, it's so cool guys. It's just unbelievably rad and hilarious!
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So if I'm reading you right you want to use the vehicle of formations to get music back to its root presentation as ritual magic (slow build up but high impact effects). Can't say I'm opposed to the concept, since it definitely fits LQ best among perhaps all her peers save xuan shi and suyin.
 
Black Noise said:
So if I'm reading you right you want to use the vehicle of formations to get music back to its root presentation as ritual magic (slow build up but high impact effects). Can't say I'm opposed to the concept, since it definitely fits LQ best among perhaps all her peers save xuan shi and suyin.
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Yes, thank you, that's a good way to put it. I wouldn't say that's my sole interest here, but it's pretty much the core of things.

It doesn't even have to be all that high impact, I kind of picture a lot of the "punch" of the effects coming from being very out of context for the people or systems she's interacting with them. A big motivator is Ling Qi is sometimes like the dog that catches its own tail. She slips past opposition, or tracks it down, but now what does she do? Most of her arts aren't that subtle in use, and the impact they have is mostly limited to direct action. She's got this advantage, but nothing to do with it.

It'd probably make things easier for yrsillar to have more flexible, creative options at his disposal, and I think it'd be more fun too. More options, but not game breaking ones. The limits I've been describing feel like a solid framework for that.
 
AbeoLogos said:
Music is essentially performance, which affects my expectations for formations rooted in it. I don't expect music formation work to lend itself to hasty deployment, like how someone like Xuan Shi can pull complex ready-made formulas out of his brain and slap them on the ground with a slam of his staff. Performance isn't instant, it's a process of buildup and layering, etc. It might not take a lot of time, but I expect Music formations to resist being packaged in the same way as standard formations. Musical performance is impacted by the stage you use, meaning the environment has to be taken into careful consideration, especially for long-term effects. Performance is impermanent by nature; establishing persistent effects with music formations is creating a persistent performance, which sounds like a finicky and potentially fragile process.
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My problem with this is that I don't really see the distinction between a performance based formation and one of LQ's Musical Arts other than that the latter are carefully defined and the former wouldn't be.

I would prefer LQ's formations to be about modifying the stage: this doesn't necessarily do that much by itself but will change how future performances in the area work. Thus, instead of singing a giant Musical formation, we would instead spend the time turning the surrounding area into a formation that makes our Arts do what we need them to do in this particular situation.
 
Arts are fast, and temporary.
I would assume that formation songs would take longer to do, could have much larger effects, and also be able to do permanent location based effects.
Usually formations have had some sort of material component to them, not sure how that would work with musical formations.
Have the song eat the components or shape them somehow?
Possibly we could craft (through song or otherwise) whatever materials the formation need beforehand and then sing the final bit to activate the effect if we want to use formations in combat?
On practical level, formations through music should not work any differently that regular ones, it's just the way they are described that changes.

I'm a fan of the idea in general.
It's not like it has no mythological underpinnings, though not sure if there are any notable oriental myths about magical songs, i would assume so.
 
I like the idea of rituals with Music but that's just spirit diplomacy, the kind of religious duties expected of a baroness even if Ling Qi is already on the path of excelling at it. I could see Formations playing a big part in this but it feels a bit narrow for a specialization unless we count it as the main specialization of a more general wards focus. Windchimes marking the border of our settlements echoing the song first sang when Ling Qi struck a pact with the spirits of the land, reinvigorated by a yearly music ritual and growing stronger every time.

I don't think we should overplay the Music aspect though. We can have Music in our Formations without turning it into a thing. It shouldn't be more than one of ten Keywords of a Formations Art (if Formations had Arts and Keywords), it should give flair to our Formations but we need more to give it personality and Music is one of those Keywords we can leave in the background without diminishing it.
 
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Turn 12: Arc 4-2
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    • "The vision painted by Miss Ling's words were ill preparation," Xuan Shi said. He reached out, resting a gauntlet clad hand on the pale grey trunks of the trees that made up the labyrinth, peering up at the dark crowded canopy that arched overhead.

    Ling Qi glanced back past the curled and twisted portal formed by the pale trees, separating the melancholy labyrinth from the rosy light of the winter evening outside. "Unless you wanted me to compose a song, I'm not sure I could have really prepared you."

    "Can't say I missed the place," Sixiang murmured, Ling Qi felt their consciousness drawing back from her senses.

    The sadness of this place was a physical weight, heavy like a thick blanket soaked through by cold water, and the tendrils of fog that played about her ankles seemed to drag at her feet with every step. "Even if I had, you'd still have come though, I think," she hummed.

    "Miss Ling's intuition is accurate," Xuan Shi said, glancing to the left and right, down the brush choked and narrow halls. "Where should our steps lead?"

    Ling Qi let her awareness spread beyond her eyes, carried on glittering motes of silver. "To the left, the path has shifted, but I can still trace the path."

    He nodded, letting his hand drop back to his side as he turned to follow. His heavy footsteps were muted here, and the jingling of the rings on his staff did not echo at all, despite the environment. They walked in silence for a time, weight of the atmosphere making the idea of the light conversation that had come before seem disrespectful.

    "Can I ask what you're planning to speak with the sword about," Ling Qi said, keeping her voice quiet as the visions of her soaring motes flashed behind her eyes, tracing their path further inside, noting the places where space became strange, and veils of illusion rippled.

    Xuan Shi squeezed his eyes shut for a moment, following a step behind. "How frivolous, some thoughts seem here. Yet, queries remain. I wish to know the Elder Lang's purpose in authorship. I wish to know how much of his tales have basis in the world of flesh and earth."

    Ling Qi cocked her head to the side. Xuan Shi had cut himself off at the end, a thought unfinished. "If there is a personal matter, I can leave," she offered.

    "...No," Xuan Shi said. "This one has reason to inquire after the existence of the Storm folk and their witches, who appeared in the first two volumes, that is all."

    Ling Qi nodded. If he didn't want to reveal that reason, it was his prerogative. They did not speak much more as they made their way through the labyrinth of melancholy and despair that shrouded the central gravesite. Soon enough, they came to the mist shrouded gate that cut it off from all else.

    As Xuan Shi began to step toward the mist, he paused, raising a hand to his temple, his expression growing concerned.

    "Are you alright?" Ling Qi asked?

    "This one is well. Mine companion is ill affected by this place," Xuan Shi said. "Apologies friend, but this one must speak with the Elder. Please endure."

    Ling Qi frowned in concern, his later words were clearly for his spirit. Ling Qi turned her own attention inwards. 'Sixiang will you be okay here?'

    "I'm fine worrywort. Guess the cousin he picked up is more affected by this sort of thing though," Sixiang sent back.

    Ling Qi turned her attention outward again, just in time to see Xuan Shi stepping through the gate. She shook her head, it would be fine probably. Lifting her gown a little, she stepped over the bramble choked entrance and followed him.

    The innermost circle of trees looked just the same as it had at her last visit. The depression in the earth, the field of cut bones, the vague silhouette of an old man visible in the osseous sediment. And of course, the rusted and broken sword, jutting from the earth.

    Xuan Shi had advanced several steps ahead of her already. She could not see his expression as he stood on the edge where the earth swept down into the depression.

    "Visitors again, so very soon," the coarse whisper of rusted metal raised the hairs on her neck. "The Sect is in peril, if He's attention has wandered so much."

    Ling Qi remained silent at the doorway, firm in her decision to leave this to Xuan Shi.

    "Elder, war embroils the south, yet the Sect stands strong, all of Emerald Seas musters at its side," Xuan Shi said, bowing his head deeply. "This humble disciple requests Elder's instruction."

    There was a rasping sound, like a jagged edge being dragged over rock, and so bitter it was that she tasted the salt of tears in her mouth. It took her too long to realize that it had been laughter.

    "Fool child, your soul is not made for cutting, You have not even tried to sharpen it. Do not dash such wisdom now. That staff in thy hand is a superior thing," the blade scoffed, sending a ripple of contempt through the air that saw Xuan Shi sway backward as if struck.

    "This one is no swordsman, nor does this one seek such mastery," Xuan Shi said, his head remaining bowed as a student who was facing a master. "Please, this one wishes to know what inspired the tales thy Master wrote."

    There was a deep silence in the wake of his words as the thrumming of blade planted in the graveyard ceased. Ling Qi remained still, holding her breath.

    "...Eh?" the old item spirit grunted, breaking the silence.

    "The Voyages of Yu Long, what inspiration transformed sword saint to author? Why write such tales?" Xuan Shi asked again.

    Ling Qi saw the air in his hands shimmer as a book appeared there, worn and dog eared, its colorful cover still stood out in the gloom. A painting depicting a laughing man in red standing on the prow of a golden ship.

    "Those childish things still exist?" spoke the sword, and Xuan Shi flinched visibly.

    "Under study, this one has determined that Sect Head Yuan saw to a small distribution, under a name of the pen," Xuan Shi said, not raising his head.

    "Sentimental fool," whispered the sword. "Why do you care for such things, disciple? Is it not past time to put such things away?"

    Ling Qi's heart sank a little. This seemed to be going worse than she had imagined.

    "No."

    She looked up to see Xuan Shi raising his head.

    "Perhaps as a sword, thou does not respect accomplishments off the sea of battle, but all the same they are not to be dismissed. The venerable Elder created something great," Xuan Shi said firmly.It was only from close attention and experience that Ling Qi heard the tremor of frustration and fear in his voice. "It is perhaps nothing to you, but this disciple would know what was in his mind in the writing."

    The wind picked up, the whisper of a hundred dying voices, and Ling Qi felt an electric tingle of alarm travel up her spine as the light in the graveyard grove further dimmed.

    "Regret, shame, despair," the sword's voice cut the air, and Ling Qi saw sparks as Xuan Shi took a step back, gauges appearing in the brim of his hat. "For a life wasted and withered by blood. Does this please you disciple?"

    Xuan Shi flinched and looked as if he were going to speak, only to hesitate, listening to an unheard voice.

    "Do not whisper and sneak near me, night thing," again the sound of grinding metal, like an imperious snort ground through the air, and Ling Qi's eyes flew open wide as she felt a change in the air.

    She clutched her stomach, letting out a wheeze as it rippled through her like a hard strike to the gut. Behind her she heard a yelp and a thump. Through watering eyes, she looked back to Sixiang blinking up at the dark canopy as they lay in the grass.

    "Ouch, crotchety old bastard," Sixiang said, wincing as they rolled to their feet. They were cut off, Ling Qi realized, wholly cut off from the liminal realm.

    She heard a pained hiss and turned back toward Xuan Shi to see a crouching figure rising from the grass beside him. It was tall and gangly, long and thin limbs sticking out in its crouched pose. Around its shoulders were what she took at first for a cloak but swiftly realized were pale wings spotted with eyelike marks, a ruff of white fur concealed the figure's neck. Their face resembled Sixiang's, with glittering black eyes but with shifting hair of white and black.

    She heard an intake of breath from her side and Sixiang spoke. "Oh, you asshole."

    Ling Qi blinked at the uncharacteristic vulgarity as Xuan Shi turned toward his own dream muse. "Kongyou, have you come to harm?" he asked.

    Ling Qi's eyes narrowed as she focused, penetrating the miasma like apathy and despair that filled the grave to feel the muse's aura. Her memory flashed back to the underground expedition, where they had been lost in the dream, and she injured and confined by Sixiang.She remembered the giggling voice who had nearly convinced her to hurt herself further by trying to fight despite her injury.

    Kongyou gave her a helpless and not at all guilty grin as if to say 'oops'. "I'm fine Shi, don't you worry about me."

    "Xuan Shi, that thing is a nightmare spirit," Ling Qi hissed.

    He blinked at her. "This one knows that."

    "They tried to trick Ling Qi into getting herself killed back in the dream," Sixiang hissed, staring at their fellow muse with intense dislike.

    Kongyou put a finger to their lip, cocking their head to the side cutely. "Ehhh? I was just trying to help."

    "As a spirit of the deeper dream, they do not understand mortals well," Xuan Shi said, wincing.

    "But Shi is a great instructor. I'm getting better all the time," the nightmare said, displaying a grin full of razor edged teeth.

    "Xuan Shi-" Ling Qi began incredulously

    "Bicker elsewhere," the powerful grinding voice of the sword. "Boy, are you still dissatisfied with my answer?"

    Xuan Shi grimaced, and Kongyou patted him on the shoulder. "Don't worry about me! I'll just go stand with my cousin and their friend eh?"

    Ling Qi glared at the muse as they ambled over. Their feet were bare, and underneath their cloak of wings they seemed to wear only a nearly skintight pair of black pants that glittered like the night sky. Their narrow but well defined chest was wholly bare, but was almost dollike in its lack of hair or features.

    The muse smiled at her. "Hey, totally sorry about before. I'm real sorry I almost hurt you," they said quietly, tittering under their breath.

    "Like hell you are," Sixiang grumbled back.

    Ahead of them, Xuan Shi squared his shoulders as he prepared to speak again. "Honored Elder, this one will not be driven off by such tactics. Although Elder has no obligation to speak. This one would have more than vague platitude from thee."

    "Hmph, bold child," the sword said. "But foolish. You know what that thing is yet harbor it all the same."

    "Dreams change," Xuan Shi said. "Nature is not the whole of things. Thy master knew this, and wrote it."

    "Stories are stories," grunted the sword. "He was wrong. You are a fool. You cannot change your nature once your path has begun."

    Ling Qi glanced from the grinning nightmare to Xuan Shi.

    "It feels nice to be believed in," Kongyou drawled, clasping their hands. They glanced to Ling Qi and Sixiang with a smirk. "Isn't friendship grand?"

    "What do you think you're up too?" Sixiang hissed, glaring at Kongyou over Ling Qi's shoulder.

    "Same thing as you cuz. Enjoying my human," Kongyou said flippantly.

    [] Interrogate the spirit. Quietly so as not to interrupt Xuan Shi's conversation. Kongyou is obviously up to no good, you need to figure out what they're up to.
    [] Don't let the nightmare bait you into conversation. Shush both Sixiang and Kongyou, and refuse to engage. Xuan Shi needs to focus on his conversation.
     
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    • JohnnieBoy123 said:
    My problem with this is that I don't really see the distinction between a performance based formation and one of LQ's Musical Arts other than that the latter are carefully defined and the former wouldn't be.

    I would prefer LQ's formations to be about modifying the stage: this doesn't necessarily do that much by itself but will change how future performances in the area work. Thus, instead of singing a giant Musical formation, we would instead spend the time turning the surrounding area into a formation that makes our Arts do what we need them to do in this particular situation.
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    One of the main distinctions between arts and formations is formations allow effects cultivators don't have to be standing around maintaining.

    I'm for the most part not interested in super duper bigly effects. Large-scale formations are an easy go-to example of how a formation specialization could be used, but that kind of thing is an extensive infrastructure project. The work of weeks, months, years. For more routine use, I'm picturing Ling Qi taking some time, starting at minutes and scaling upwards, to imprint some kind of effect on a location for a few hours, or maybe a day or two. An alarm, a snare, a lure, a beacon, a relay, a blind, a gentle alarm to rouse a mountain spirit a bit over time before she tries to make contact. Stuff to assist other stuff she's doing or leave an impact when she's got to focus elsewhere.
     
    yrsillar said:
    "Fool child, your soul is not made for cutting, You have not even tried to sharpen it. Do not dash such wisdom now. That staff in thy hand is a superior thing," the blade scoffed, sending a ripple of contempt through the air that saw Xuan Shi sway backward as if struck.
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    yrsillar said:
    "Regret, shame, despair," the sword's voice cut the air, and Ling Qi saw sparks as Xuan Shi took a step back, gauges appearing in the brim of his hat. "For a life wasted and withered by blood. Does this please you disciple?"
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    "Remember, oh student, this above all other laws: the grip of a sword is suffused with a deep and powerful poison that rots to the bone. It can never be rid of once touched, no matter how much you wish otherwise.

    The sword does not kill. The hand kills. The hand is the most beautiful part of a human being, and is capable of nearly infinitely other things than parting men from their ghosts. Once you touch the sword, a terrible tragedy will occur, and your hand will slowly lose this ability. Over time, it will cease to be a hand, and become a sword."
     
    [] Don't let the nightmare bait you into conversation. Shush both Sixiang and Kongyou, and refuse to engage. Xuan Shi needs to focus on his conversation.

    This...really isn't any of our business right now. He knows what it is and he picked it anyway. We can always grill him at a time that is far more appropriate than when it risks all of us being kicked out and ruining Xuan Shi's chance.
     
    [] Don't let the nightmare bait you into conversation. Shush both Sixiang and Kongyou, and refuse to engage. Xuan Shi needs to focus on his conversation.
    Xuan Shi is close enough to a grown up, he can handle it :p
     
    Love it, everyone is worried about poor Xuan Shi being with a nightmare spirit and then he just basicly goes "Yes, and?" when told about it.
    I think we should shut up and let him talk.
     
    [X] Don't let the nightmare bait you into conversation. Shush both Sixiang and Kongyou, and refuse to engage. Xuan Shi needs to focus on his conversation.
     
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    [] Don't let the nightmare bait you into conversation. Shush both Sixiang and Kongyou, and refuse to engage. Xuan Shi needs to focus on his conversation.

    We'll have time to convince Xuan Shi that Kongyou needs to be rendered into spare parts later. Time to see if Xuan Shi can remind the sword why he loved his master.
     
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    Hrrrm...*Considers*
    [] Don't let the nightmare bait you into conversation. Shush both Sixiang and Kongyou, and refuse to engage. Xuan Shi needs to focus on his conversation.
    I think Kongyou will try to cause problems whichever path we take. I also think this route will be somewhat harder to twist against Xuan Shi.
    I'd like to NOT loose our Turtle boi to some nightmare hussy! Just because he's probably got a cousin doesn't mean it's be nice to lose the first candidate!
    EDIT:Forgot Moratorium again.
     
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