The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone

coyote16able · Mar 31, 2021

Adventwolf said:
One he didn't steal anything. He bought them from whoever came through. That is not a crime as he had no knowledge or part to play in the theft. Also the weapons aren't enough to justify actions against him.

Also this point would be better spent on expanding the Battlemech factories. We want to increase the amount of mechs built at a time to at least a Reinforced Regiment. Since our Battalions are the TDF style 48.

The weapons themselves are still stolen and we do want them back for various reasons one is once we have them we can track where they came from and possibly the dropship and jumpship that was used. It also causes him to a decision either A. he disarms himself leading to his collapse highly unlikely or B. he refuses we land stomp his ass then either negotiate or if they decide they want to attack forcibly annex New Olso so new planet and less border gore.

I agree that it needs to be expanded but we only have so many actions and there was a bunch of other stuff I wanted to do but don't have enough AP to do all I wanted I genuinely was racking my brain on what to pick for options and really the quicker we deal with New Olso the better I think Caliban is the perfect example of way that's important.

Adventwolf · Mar 31, 2021

zezia said:
Perhaps inform him that these weapons were stolen and further attempts to acquire Helgan weapons would be looked at with disapproval.

It doesn't matter. He bought them and informing him won't do anything. He is also asking to buy directly from us now because as far as he is aware we are the ones that provided the weapons to the traders he met with before.

He is also the easiest and best one to talk to and work with. If he can become strong enough and is at that point because of us he would become a vassal and annexing the system is easier. If we support the rivals or try to invade ourselves then we just create a stalemate and blood bath.

Thule · Mar 31, 2021

[X] Plan Choices and Annexes

Gmerguy · Mar 31, 2021

[X] Plan Arms and Diplomacy.

Made a couple write ins, including accepting the military exercise project the Arugians proposed last turn and inviting the TC/MoC to it.

Something Rotten On The Planet of Helghan

-[X] Write-In: Intercept the Outbound shipment, inform our anti-smuggling efforts to collect data/observe the Durban deal/shipment if possible.
================================================
Actions

New Oslo

-[X] Write-in: investigate geopolitical status of Oslo, who and what are we working with here?

Rockwellawan:

-[X] Expand FTL Comms Network

The Aurigan Coalition:
-[X] Write In: Accept Military Exercise Co-ordination, invite the TC and MoC via our FTL comms (not HPG) if possible and the AC is game for it.

Taurian Concordat:
-[X] Expand FTL Comms Network:. [Progress: 2/3 turns] [4 Turns Remain Until Negative Effects Occur] [Action Point Locked Until Completed]
-[X] Write In : Sell Decommissioned Cruisers, Renew/renegotiate arms sales

Magistracy of Canopus:
-[X] Expand FTL Comms Network: Having had to promise to link Canopus to the Republic's own FTL communication network to secure the Canopian vote for the Mutual Defence Pact, we should build said link ASAP. [Progress: 4/5 turns] [4 Turns Remain Until Negative Effects Occur] [Action Point Locked Until Completed]
-[X] Sell Decommissioned Cruisers: [Can be taken multiple times. 10 sales remaining]

General:
-[X] Expand Zulim Taw Battlemech Factory: Further investment in the Zulim Taw facility will allow us to expand our production capability considerably.
-[X] Target Smuggler Network: We cannot allow Helghan military equipment to be stolen and sold to the highest bidder by criminals. As such, we should make the destruction of this network a priority. [Progress: 1/???]

Military:
-[X] Construct two Hasta-class cruiser Squadrons: Task your shipyards with constructing Six Hasta Cruisers. [Can be taken multiple times a turn]
-[X] Construct a Damascus-Class Carrier Squadron: Task your shipyards with constructing a squadron of Damascus-Class Carriers. [Can be taken multiple times a turn]

Political:
-[X] Colonize Charybdis [Progress: 290,793/500,000] [Action Point Locked Until Completed]
-[X] Annex Tiverton (-5 influence total): By deploying numerous civil, military, and diplomatic resources, the Republic should be able to annex the system of Tiverton with minimal protest from our neighbours. [Progress: 0/2 turns] [Action Point Locked Until Completed]

===============================
Research
--[X] Research
---[X] Double Heat Sinks [4.44/6]
---[X] Advanced Petrusite Theory [4.8/6]
---[X] Wildlife Removal [1.3/2]
---[X] Petrusite Space Weaponry [1/5]
---[X]Standard Power Armor (Light) [0.57/--]
---[X] Selective Defoiliants [0.3/--]

===============================
Military Requisition And Design

Requisition
-[X] Multi-Missile Launchers:
-[X] Power Armour Design: Minuteman PA(L) suit
-[X] Dropship Design: Sheriff Light Carrier

zezia · Mar 31, 2021

coyote16able said:
Annex Tiverton cause why not it's there, it's a pirate heaven and it creates border gore.

Yeah, I am really iffy on this. At most Tiverton is simply used as a meeting place for pirates and smugglers. How bout send agents to actually get a feel for how the inhabitants feel about their being used as a meeting place for pirates and then go from there. This is not even going into the process of trying to annex a planet with the only government being scattered towns and villages totally independent of each other.

Adventwolf · Mar 31, 2021

coyote16able said:
The weapons themselves are still stolen and we do want them back for various reasons one is once we have them we can track where they came from and possibly the dropship and jumpship that was used. It also causes him to a decision either A. he disarms himself leading to his collapse highly unlikely or B. he refuses we land stomp his ass then either negotiate or if they decide they want to attack forcibly annex New Olso so new planet and less border gore.

I agree that it needs to be expanded but we only have so many actions and there was a bunch of other stuff I wanted to do but don't have enough AP to do all I wanted I genuinely was racking my brain on what to pick for options and really the quicker we deal with New Olso the better I think Caliban is the perfect example of way that's important.

So instead of just working with the dude who already is well inclined to us you want to waste more time with another Caliban because that is what is going to happen by the way. You want to invade another planet again.

And no getting the weapons will not give us any of that information. We know where they came from as we came to this planet by tracking them here. You want dropships and jumpships ask the guy himself. We are a better source of support so he wouldn't hide them from us if we asked. Seriously what is with the need to just invade random planets for no reason?

zezia · Mar 31, 2021

Adventwolf said:
So instead of just working with the dude who already is well inclined to us you want to waste more time with another Caliban because that is what is going to happen by the way. You want to invade another planet again.

And no getting the weapons will not give us any of that information. We know where they came from as we came to this planet by tracking them here. You want dropships and jumpships ask the guy himself. We are a better source of support so he wouldn't hide them from us if we asked. Seriously what is with the need to just invade random planets for no reason?

How about we investigate New Olso first before we sell arms to some conquerer that we barely know anything about aside from him being open to trade. I rather we support a faction that may be more amenable to democracy.

MonkeyTypewriter · Mar 31, 2021

[X] Plan Arms and Diplomacy.

coyote16able · Mar 31, 2021

zezia said:
Yeah, I am really iffy on this. At most Tiverton is simply used as a meeting place for pirates and smugglers. How bout send agents to actually get a feel for how the inhabitants feel about their being used as a meeting place for pirates and then go from there. This is not even going into the process of trying to annex a planet with the only government being scattered towns and villages totally independent of each other.

True but it's a two turn thing and I'm guessing that turn one is claiming the highest ground forcing those on planet to stay on planet and we are probably going to capture pirates in towns even before they go to ground to lay low because Booze, women and dear god I don't want to sleep in a dropship bunk for awhile.

zezia · Mar 31, 2021

coyote16able said:
True but it's a two turn thing and I'm guessing that turn one is claiming the highest ground forcing those on planet to stay on planet and we are probably going to capture pirates in towns even before they go to ground to lay low because Booze, women and dear god I don't want to sleep in a dropship bunk for awhile.

I rather not run dick first into annexing a planet that is home to millions of people who we know barely anything about. Clear out the pirates sure I can see that but wholesale annexing a planet that has not requested to join just reeks of imperialism. I really not rather not give the fascists and imperialists within the Republic any ideas. So how about we send agents to scope it out first and then we can decide what to do.

Adventwolf · Mar 31, 2021

Gmerguy said:
[X] Write-in: investigate geopolitical status of Oslo, who and what are we working with here?

This is the same thing we did on Caliban and it got us nothing much there I doubt it will help much here.

zezia said:
How about we investigate New Olso first before we sell arms to some conquerer that we barely know anything about aside from him being open to trade. I rather we support a faction that may be more amenable to democracy.

Because it is a waste. And democracy doesn't matter much if it did we wouldn't be working with anyone since none of them are a democracy. They only play lip service to it. Also dude he was getting conquered and he got something that allowed him to fight back. He is not a bad person to work with. But it seems people are determined to do things the longest and most wasteful way possible I can't stop them.

And Tiverton is not hard dude we already got all the information we needed that is why the option shows up now. The people do not care and would e fine with it because we would improve the planet. We also have been annexing and turning planets since we met them. We also already invaded a planet for no other reason than we could and didn't like them, fought a war by poking the side we didn't like until they did something stupid, and involved ourselves in a major sphere wide war and got our ally to weaken another group we didn't like. We aren't and never have been saints or good guys. We are just less shitty than the a lot of other people.

Gmerguy · Mar 31, 2021

Adventwolf said:
Because it is a waste. And democracy doesn't matter much if it did we wouldn't be working with anyone since none of them are a democracy. They only play lip service to it. Also dude he was getting conquered and he got something that allowed him to fight back. He is not a bad person to work with. But it seems people are determined to do things the longest and most wasteful way possible I can't stop them.

And Tiverton is not hard dude we already got all the information we needed that is why the option shows up now. The people do not care and would e fine with it because we would improve the planet. We also have been annexing and turning planets since we met them. We also already invaded a planet for no other reason than we could and didn't like them, fought a war by poking the side we didn't like until they did something stupid, and involved ourselves in a major sphere wide war and got our ally to weaken another group we didn't like. We aren't and never have been saints or good guys. We are just less shitty than the a lot of other people.

We don't actually know if the New Oslo guy is bad or not, only that he was in a bad position before being backed by the Smugglers. I'd rather know we are not supporting a ruthless despot before we keep backing them.

coyote16able · Mar 31, 2021

Also I think the QM would track us all down and murder us if we took too long and created more border gore.

Gmerguy said:
We don't actually know if the New Oslo guy is bad or not, only that he was in a bad position before being backed by the Smugglers. I'd rather know we are not supporting a ruthless despot before we keep backing them.

That's why I say demand the weapons back if he agree's we can talk with him while we land troops to retrieve the weapon and if he's good we might sell weapons or work with him to annex New Olso.

Also I just noticed this has nothing to do with quest but at certain number of words the word counter at the bottom changes to memes. is this years April fools or has that always been there?

KnightofTempest · Mar 31, 2021

[X] Plan Arms and Diplomacy.

zezia · Mar 31, 2021

Adventwolf said:
Because it is a waste. And democracy doesn't matter much if it did we wouldn't be working with anyone since none of them are a democracy. They only play lip service to it. Also dude he was getting conquered and he got something that allowed him to fight back. He is not a bad person to work with. But it seems people are determined to do things the longest and most wasteful way possible I can't stop them.

If Morgenson had simply used the weapons he got to secure his realm then I might be more inclined but instead he has used Helgan weaponry to go on a conquering spree I rather not sell weapons to some conquerer which would make the war on New Olso all the bloodier.

Adventwolf said:
And Tiverton is not hard dude we already got all the information we needed that is why the option shows up now. The people do not care and would e fine with it because we would improve the planet. We also have been annexing and turning planets since we met them. We also already invaded a planet for no other reason than we could and didn't like them, fought a war by poking the side we didn't like until they did something stupid, and involved ourselves in a major sphere wide war and got our ally to weaken another group we didn't like. We aren't and never have been saints or good guys. We are just less shitty than the a lot of other people.

You cannot assume that the people of Tiverton will be fine with being conquered? Just because we can improve their planet doesn't give us an excuse to annex a planet without its peoples' consent. Regarding Caliban, this is a very different scenario when compared to Tiverton. When the Republic first found Caliban it launched an intelligence-gathering campaign (Turn 17, 18, 19) to get a better understanding of the situation on the ground. We found out that the planet is home to slaving warlords, despots, etc. Then only did the Republic only launched an effort to set up refugee centers but they never invaded. So I rather investigate Tiverton first before committing to anything.

KnightofTempest · Mar 31, 2021

@Gmerguy

I just realized that your plan doesn't have an action for Caliban.

Why?

Adventwolf · Mar 31, 2021

Gmerguy said:
We don't actually know if the New Oslo guy is bad or not, only that he was in a bad position before being backed by the Smugglers. I'd rather know we are not supporting a ruthless despot before we keep backing them.

This is a fedual world and setting. If he was a despot it would have been easy to see by how his people are. And we got nothing to indicate they were treated badly. My point is that the action is a waste because nothing is actually been done. You want information you send in "merchants and agents" to actually talk to the people and leaders. Not just say look into them you have to give a direction.

coyote16able said:
That's why I say demand the weapons back if he agree's we can talk with him while we land troops to retrieve the weapon and if he's good we might sell weapons or work with him to annex New Olso.

You are literally asking him to disarm his nation and people. How in the hell do you expect that to be in any way a reasonable demand. That is the same as the US coming to a small nation at war that got some older surplus equipment saying they stole them, demanding them back, and then invading them to steal them back all he while they are still fighting a war. This is literally just giving him the only option of refusal since to agree means his nation is Destroyed.

Ferngolly · Mar 31, 2021

Caliban has been nothing but a waste. We've used more actions than the entire planet is worth and for a population that is similar in size to one turn of colonization. I really wouldn't hold our actions on Caliban up as some sort of model we should try to repeat.

zezia · Mar 31, 2021

Adventwolf said:
This is a fedual world and setting. If he was a despot it would have been easy to see by how his people are. And we got nothing to indicate they were treated badly. My point is that the action is a waste because nothing is actually been done. You want information you send in "merchants and agents" to actually talk to the people and leaders. Not just say look into them you have to give a direction.

We have not even met Morgenson yet. All we got from him was an offer to send diplomats to his hall nothing more. So we cannot say for certain if he is a good ruler to his people. So god forbid that I want to explore our options more before committing any resources.

MonkeyTypewriter · Mar 31, 2021

[X] Plan Diplomatic Contacts
-[X] Write-In: Intercept the Outbound shipment, inform our anti-smuggling efforts to collect data/observe the Durban deal/shipment if possible.
================================================
Actions

The Aurigan Coalition:
-[X] Write In: Accept Military Exercise Co-ordination, invite the TC and MoC via FTL comms if possible and the AC is game for it.

Taurian Concordat:
-[X] Expand FTL Comms Network:. [Progress: 2/3 turns] [4 Turns Remain Until Negative Effects Occur] [Action Point Locked Until Completed]
-[X] Write In : Sell Decommissioned Cruisers, Renew/renegotiate arms sales
-[X] Offer Joint Design Project (Hephaestus Ltd.): Inviting Vandenberg Mechanized Industries into the Republic was only the first step in a plan to lay the groundwork for a joint research program. The next step involves offering VMI a joint design project with Hephaestus Ltd. [This is mutually exclusive with Offer Joint Design Project (Pharoah Automated Solutions)]
Magistracy of Canopus:
-[X] Expand FTL Comms Network: Having had to promise to link Canopus to the Republic's own FTL communication network to secure the Canopian vote for the Mutual Defence Pact, we should build said link ASAP. [Progress: 4/5 turns] [4 Turns Remain Until Negative Effects Occur] [Action Point Locked Until Completed]
-[X] Sell Decommissioned Cruisers: [Can be taken multiple times. 10 sales remaining]

General:
-[X] Expand Zulim Taw Battlemech Factory: Further investment in the Zulim Taw facility will allow us to expand our production capability considerably.
-[X] Target Smuggler Network: We cannot allow Helghan military equipment to be stolen and sold to the highest bidder by criminals. As such, we should make the destruction of this network a priority. [Progress: 1/???]

Military:
-[X] Construct a Damascus-Class Carrier Squadron: Task your shipyards with constructing a squadron of Damascus-Class Carriers. [Can be taken multiple times a turn]

Political:
-[X] Colonize Charybdis [Progress: 290,793/500,000] [Action Point Locked Until Completed]
-[X] Annex Tiverton (-5 influence total): By deploying numerous civil, military, and diplomatic resources, the Republic should be able to annex the system of Tiverton with minimal protest from our neighbours. [Progress: 0/2 turns] [Action Point Locked Until Completed]
-[X] Contact the inhabitants of Fronq
-[X] Contact the inhabitants of Detroit
===============================
Research
--[X] Research
---[X] Double Heat Sinks [4.44/6]
---[X] Advanced Petrusite Theory [4.8/6]
---[X] Wildlife Removal [1.3/2]
---[X] Petrusite Space Weaponry [1/5]
---[X]Standard Power Armor (Light) [0.57/--]
---[X] Selective Defoiliants [0.3/--]

===============================
Military Requisition And Design

Requisition
-[X] Multi-Missile Launchers:
-[X] Power Armour Design: Minuteman PA(L) suit
-[X] Dropship Design: Constable Light Carrier

Fronq and Detriot are by far the two most important independent systems in the Local Region, to the point that they're arguably worth more than all the rest combined.

coyote16able · Mar 31, 2021

Adventwolf said:
You are literally asking him to disarm his nation and people. How in the hell do you expect that to be in any way a reasonable demand. That is the same as the US coming to a small nation at war that got some older surplus equipment saying they stole them, demanding them back, and then invading them to steal them back all he while they are still fighting a war. This is literally just giving him the only option of refusal since to agree means his nation is Destroyed.

Except the weapons are stolen we want them back for investigation as we didn't track them we where informed of them being on new olso and he might be willing to give them back when he finds out that they where stolen and he might give them up but ask for either our help or the chance to buy weapons from us.

Also @Gmerguy so why do you want to sell the surplus cruisers this turn? I wanted to myself but it was a low priority and when I thought about it there was various reasons not to do it this turn.

Eternal Lord · Mar 31, 2021

[] Plan Arms and Diplomacy.

let's just conquer the planet we need more planets and get stronger.

Also some of you are forgetting which universe were in. in this universe where it's normal to to conquer planets for no reason. and also it's normal to massacre, exterminate groups of people. Also no one does democracy. We're pretty much one of the only ones in battle tech that does democracy. most of powers in BattleTech are either authoritarian empires or monarchy they don't care about the common person we allow people to vote we allow people to have health care Yes we do have health care we give them education we defend them and we allow them freedom of speech which not many people in battle tech do.

Gmerguy · Mar 31, 2021

coyote16able said:
Except the weapons are stolen we want them back for investigation as we didn't track them we where informed of them being on new olso and he might be willing to give them back when he finds out that they where stolen and he might give them up but ask for either our help or the chance to buy weapons from us.

Also @Gmerguy so why do you want to sell the surplus cruisers this turn? I wanted to myself but it was a low priority and when I thought about it there was various reasons not to do it this turn.

because it will take a while and id rather get started asap, given tensions with the mandate

KnightofTempest · Mar 31, 2021

coyote16able said:
Except the weapons are stolen we want them back for investigation as we didn't track them we where informed of them being on new olso and he might be willing to give them back when he finds out that they where stolen and he might give them up but ask for either our help or the chance to buy weapons from us.

Also @Gmerguy so why do you want to sell the surplus cruisers this turn? I wanted to myself but it was a low priority and when I thought about it there was various reasons not to do it this turn.

You are coming into a Semi-feudal society and accusing their warlord of dealing in stolen goods.

At that point you may as well just land troops because you've just insulted their leader's honor and they will outright refuse to work with you.

Cultural taboos amongst backwards ass Ice Planet Barbarians mean that this solution isn't going to work. . .

coyote16able · Mar 31, 2021

KnightofTempest said:
You are coming into a Semi-feudal society and accusing their warlord of dealing in stolen goods.

At that point you may as well just land troops because you've just insulted their leader's honor and they will outright refuse to work with you.

Cultural taboos amongst backwards ass Ice Planet Barbarians mean that this solution isn't going to work. . .

That's assuming that we say that he knowingly dealt with stolen weapons if we state that the weapons where actually stolen from the military and we want them back that's not insulting he might say take it as an insult he might not if he does hey we're one more step closer to annexing another planet. Besides this is a declaration not actual action taken against him that would probably be next turn if my plan is chosen.

Gmerguy said:
because it will take a while and id rather get started asap, given tensions with the mandate

Hmm fair though looking at it appears we will be selling off the cruisers in waves and each sale is takes place over the year with the nations taken all the purchased ships by the end of the year.

EDIT: So when I get back from work I'm going to edit my new olso option to clarify somethings as looking over it it needs some cleaning up.

The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone

The Man who would be King

The Man who would be King

The Man who would be King