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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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More variety than I thought we would have.
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Mar 20, 2021 at 12:29 AM, finished with 67 posts and 35 votes.
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[x] Replace Academic with Music


Projection just seems too crucial to what we use it for.
Removing projection and expecting it to keep the scout constructs rather than becoming something like Harmony's sensing extension is too big a gamble.
CrimsonOddball said:
Grandmother Serpent was not a Sublime back then, and Yao most likely wasn't a White at the time either
Evidenced by the fact she was slithering around sunbathing and hunting and whatnot

Sublime Ancestors are dormant and inactive by nature because they are a more physical equivalent to the ascension undertaken by those who become Great Spirits
The Sublime's spirit ascends, but they uniquely leave their physical body behind, which lies in dormant slumber
That's the reason why they just stick around in one place without moving: Celestial Dragon's body endlessly circles above the Peaks, Grandmother Serpent sleeps in Lake Hei, The Reveler lies beneath a waterfall, etc.
Sublime Ancestors are Gods, in the same sense that Great Spirits are, they just left something behind when they ascended

Their sleeping body also acts as a backdoor and vessel that allows them back into the physical world in a far more easily
For a Great Spirit, manifesting a direct avatar with power beyond Violet level is a costly expenditure of resources, and coming back as a Physical God beyond White Level is nigh unheard of due to how costly it'd be
(Xin isn't an avatar of the Hidden Moon, she's her own entity, albeit one that the Hidden Moon can speak and perform minor actions through, and even then the entire Moon Auntie's event was weird quasi dreamcape stuff)
Sublime Ancestors are an exception, by popping back into their physical form they can manifest their full power on the physical world they left behind


Also of note is that all the Sublime Ancestors of the Empire were bonded spirits, which probably isn't a coincidence
Spirits tend to have harder limits on how powerful they may naturally grow, and part of their benifits from being bonded to a cultivator is that it can help them to break through those limits and redefine themselves
Grandmother Serpent likely would not have ascended if she never met Yao

A better reference for a feat of Grandmother Serpent after she became a Sublime Ancestor would be the one and only time she was awoken, when the Sage Emperor courted the White Serpent Queen he was forced to prove himself against Grandmother, whatever brief contest they had carved the bay of the Thousand Lakes


Current Sublime Ancestors of the Empire: The Celestial Dragon, Grandmother Serpent, The Reveler (Monkey), The Living Isle, and The Herald of Endings (Owl)
Previous Sublimes, now either dead or otherwise missing: The Purifying Sun (Pheonix), The Horned Lord (Elk), Grandfather of Tides (Crab)
There is also one prospective Sublime: Father Fortress (Scorpion)

And then there are the very rare Greater-Than-White entities that aren't Sublime Ancestors, like The God Tree Xiangmen, the Sunflower Goddess and possibly others we have yet to know of
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Also the Imperial Palace, considering it's taken Whites throwing down and a Sublime nuking them inside it without a blip
 
veekie said:
Projection just seems too crucial to what we use it for.
Removing projection and expecting it to keep the scout constructs rather than becoming something like Harmony's sensing extension is too big a gamble.
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This is a reasonable concern to have, but:
yrsillar said:
Projection- Governs attacks using projected energy(Lightning bolts and fireballs)
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Projection is a skill, not a theme keyword, and it's a skill governing attacks with projected energy. And we know music can be a medium for persistent constructs without it, because:
yrsillar said:
Keywords:
- Beasts, Conquest, Illusion, Wood, Yang.
- Dark, Music, Presence, War.
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Billion Kill Six Demons has this keyword setup.

So I don't think it's risky at all. It's just a strict upgrade, mechanically and thematically.
 
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picklepikkl said:
Projection is a skill, not a theme keyword, and it's a skill governing attacks with projected energy.
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... Huh.

I think I knew that at some point, and then completely forgot about it. Certainly that makes a big difference as to what effect removing it will have on the Art; it doesn't seem like we've even reached the bits that would make use of that aspect yet. (Using the sprites as a lensing or focusing array or something?)

Certainly we don't use RME as a weapon, and I've no objection to making it less of one.

[X] Replace Projection with Music
 
Erebeal said:
I think this is fine, since we know what the broad goal is (shift RME over to using music stuff to better fit LQ), and setting that out ahead of time allows yrs to better weave the story of its cultivation and LQ's thoughts on it.

The problems are more with the limitations of the crude - and occasionally arbitrary - keyword system.


Projection is a skill keyword - it's basically the generic "qi projection that isn't already using another mastery" mastery. RME has it because of wisps and mirror conjury. FVM, BKSD, and PLR don't have it because they're using music and dance to produce their constructs. Xiulan uses it heavily for her fire, and Abyssal Exhalation also used it - but, well, if she was using a sword to shoot fire at people then she'd use sword mastery instead.

My general feeling is that, yeah, we could probably also replace the water *element* with the music *element* - but I'd expect that to also eliminate projection as the skill keyword, and it would be making it a music art anyway. Up to yrs really though.
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It's honestly weird Projection was even in the art as a keyword in the first place. It doesn't do anything; nothing the art does relies on the keyword. The combination of Lung and Head meridians, Perceptiveness, and Academics to flavor the wisps as manifestations of curiosity/inquiry covers everything quite soundly.

I'd actually expect the scrying to be more based on Projection than the wisps, since the wisps operate within a range of manifestation, which is classic Lung meridian province. Scrying is more farcasting of effort, which better fits the purpose of Projection in the system. It's still needless though, since it's Perceptiveness clashing with anything.

Which is another way to say Projection is a free vestigial keyword we can do whatever we want with, huzzah!

[X] Replace Projection with Music
 
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