Maybe wait a couple of turns for DHS to be available then replace the AC/10 with a second large laser as they weigh less and taking out the ammo also saves some room, it might even leave enough room for a PPC.
Can't put DHS in vehicles only singles and I know because I was trying to mess around last night also one of the variants is a PPC variant.

@coyote16able As much as I like your plan and it covers a lot of bases we need to cover but maybe swap something out for dealing with the smuggling problem. As much as I hate to say it, maybe swap out the Damascus. Many of those options are already locked in and we need the Hasta cruisers built, we need the extra ground troops too given our expansion. Redesigning the Arc cruiser is long overdue as well in my opinion, sure its arc cannons can poke big holes in enemy dropships but it's been around since at least 2359 (around a year before the end of the Second Extrasolar War) and is based on a ship that takes its design from at least 2190 with the policing vessels built by the Helgan administration before the First Extrasolar War.
So yes agree about the smuggling problem needs to be dealt with but the reason I held off of doing it is because I want to contact New Olso first and planning on choosing it next turn when we have contact and can interrogate where the guy got the weapons from.
 
Has that ever been explained? I mean why not they're basically single heatsinks that work twice as well, so there really doesn't seem to be any reason for vehicles to be unable to use them.
My personal assumption is that it's a mix of tanks having far, far less surface area relative to volume than mechs do, complicating thermal radiation, and the fact that despite having far more volume relative to surface area than a 'mech a tank will tend to not actually have many individual large internal spots to cram components, on account of having far more people sitting inside of it and needing paths of egress and ingress for all of them.

Something related to this is also my explanation for why missile and ballistic weapons don't generate heat in a CV, and CVs don't normally have environmental sealing: because they have so much less surface area (radiative surface is important), they can't have appropriate thermal management without open air ventilation (the lore reason ballistic weapons on mechs generate heat scale is that even their breaches need a relatively high amount of atmospheric sealing when not firing, so they can be used on airless or toxic worlds). While this sort of less sealed construction lets them trivially vent the firing heat of their ordinary guns, it's not adequate for the sort of heat lasers lay down.

This, I pair with the fact that the first battlemech, the Mackie, was also the first machine to ever carry a ground-scale PPC, a notoriously hot-running energy weapon. At some point, thus, the thermal load of cutting edge weapons grew high enough that a brick like a tank could not achieve sufficient radiative surface to reasonably use energy weapons without giving up the atmospheric sealing needed to be usable in all plausible environments.

The heat budgets of vehicles have even more need to be kept balanced than mechs as well, because rather than in the least likely to contain weapons part of the machine a vehicle has (the head of a mech, usually very far from the hot bits) the crew is directly in the middle of where all the weapons are.

Do the mechanics fully support this? No, but they're also not a 1:1 simulation of existence in-setting.

Probably both to make Combat Vehicles nonviable as well as the baffling size difference usually depicted between Mechs and CVs of the same mass.
The 68 ton, modern day Abrams is 8 meters long, whereas the generally understood range for mech height based on the few glimpses we've gotten is typically thought of as 8 to 12 meters in height. Mechs happen to have most of their height eaten up by noodly little legs and only reach the same mass by having arms to weight them down. Granted, you'd expect the tanks of the 31st century to be physically bulkier than modern ones per unit mass due to the lower density materials of the era, but then again that would also mandate even physically larger 'mechs for the same mass, because their shape still spins the volume outwards rather than concentrating it in a brick. Plus, myomer itself might be unusually low density compared to the motive fuckery that moves CVs, being synthetic protein filled plastic tubes.

Artist's depictions can also be dramatized for shits and giggles to sell a certain impression.
 
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Has that ever been explained? I mean why not they're basically single heatsinks that work twice as well, so there really doesn't seem to be any reason for vehicles to be unable to use them.
Probably both to make Combat Vehicles nonviable as well as the baffling size difference usually depicted between Mechs and CVs of the same mass.

Metawise its almost definitely one of those things too cripple vehicles, the in setting reason is that there is far less space for heatsinks in vehicles then mechs so DHS which are 3 times as bulky are just to big, which ignores the whole black magic of FE heatsinks. Worse still vehicles must be heat neutral, meaning you must have enough heatsinks to fully cool said weapons. so a ML suddenly goes from 1 ton to 4 tons (1 ton plus 3 shs) a LL goes from 5 tons to 13 tons, and the PPC goes from 7 tons to a wopping 17 tons. Point is unless you are using Chemical laser weapons, which are clan tech, Energy weapons are near crippling to use in vehicles. Why the exception?, because the one saving grace vehicles get is that Ballistic weapons generate zero heat and chemical lasers are considered ballistic weapons.

TLDR; energy weapons in vehicles bad, ballistic weapons in vehicles good.
 
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Let me know if I missed anything or messed anything up and I'll fix it.

Edit: I also added a rules document to the fiction primer informational threadmark.
Did you ever take a look at my pile of write ins?
So, there's been a couple of requests for suggestions for actions. So I decided to make a little list. Please note: I am not necessarily endorsing anything on this list in particular, nor suggesting that we should, or even necessarily can do them immediately.

[ ] Garrison and training duty: Spend time with ORDI engaging in relatively low risk garrison and training duty.
[ ] Protect nearby independents: Contract with nearby independent worlds to provide protection from pirates. Gradually increases their relations with Helgan, even if not formally contacted.
[ ] Garrison the Lothian League: A minor star nation founded by Taurian refugees fleeing the Reunification War, the Lothian League is one of the smallest nations able to genuinely afford Raven's Interstellar. Increases relations with the Lothian League, decreases relations with the Marian Hegenomy due to blowing up their pirates.
[ ] Strike mission: Perform a deniable attack against a certain faction
[ ] Militia formalization: The Helgan Republic has not formalized militia standards across the republic, due to not needing them while it was a single planet polity. Nevertheless, standards must be created, and laws must be passed.
[ ] Auxiliary department: Mercenaries are hardly a Helgan favorite, yet you cannot deny that they seem to work for others. Set up a department to track, oversee and contract mercenaries. Adds mercenaries to the recquitions pool.
[] Blue Water Construction: Independence has a large water born industry for its size, a consequence of its oceanic nature. Modernize its shipbuilding infrastructure, and ready it for the export market.
[] Education Reform: By the standards of an independent periphery planet Independence has an excellent education system. By the standards of the Helgan Republic, its an underfunded, shambling wreck. Provide federal aid to at least start the process of bringing them up to par.
[] - Military Basing: By acquiring a series of prepositioned military stockpiles, fleet refueling and matinance agreements and other similar steps, the Helgan Republic can substantially ease future military deployments in support of the target nation.
[] - Leasing Shipping: Your merchant shipping is currently more than adequate for internal uses. Send some into the Augrian Directorate to make C-bills while helping your allies economy.
[] - Military Basing: By acquiring a series of prepositioned military stockpiles, fleet refueling and matinance agreements and other similar steps, the Helgan Republic can substantially ease future military deployments in support of the target nation.
[ ] Selling Shipping: There are no functioning jumpship construction yards in Canopus, so they rely on purchasing new Jumpships from the Inner Sphere to expand their fleet. Placing orders for your Freighters represent an alternative, and more reliable means to expand their internal shipping capacity, although technological assurances may need to be made.
[] - Leasing Shipping: Your merchant shipping is currently more than adequate for internal uses. Send some into the Canopians to make C-bills while helping your allies economy.
[] - Military Basing: By acquiring a series of prepositioned military stockpiles, fleet refueling and matinance agreements and other similar steps, the Helgan Republic can substantially ease future military deployments in support of the target nation.
[ ] Selling Shipping: There are no functioning jumpship construction yards in the Taurian Concordat, so they rely on purchasing new Jumpships from the Inner Sphere to expand their fleet. Placing orders for your Freighters represent an alternative, and more reliable means to expand their internal shipping capacity, although technological assurances may need to be made.
[ ] Colony Support: The Far Lookers movement in the Taurian Concordat has a lot of support. And support means money. Offer the sale of your purpose made Colony ships to improve relations, and your own economy. Terms and Conditions apply, of course.
[] - Wargames: By engaging in a series of wargames with the largest and most professional armed forces of a member of ORDI, we can get a much better idea of how the Helgan Republic's Armed Forces compare to front line opposition.
[] - Leasing Shipping: Your merchant shipping is currently more than adequate for internal uses. Send some into the Taurians to make C-bills while helping your allies economy.
[] - Satellite Facility, Civilian: The Lothian League's access to raw materials, relative stability, and historical ties to the Taurian Concordat make it a reasonable location for Helgan interests to set up a small satellite facility to serve the local civilian market.
[] - Satellite Facility, Military: The Lothian League's access to raw materials, relative stability, historical ties to the Taurian Concordat and not being a bunch of pirates make it a reasonable location for Helgan interests to set up a small satellite facility to produce the Lobo and Leo family of vehicles for sale to local non pirate nations.
[] - Food Aid Program: The Outworlds Alliance is having notable difficulties feeding their people due to a general decline in technology and industry. Use the Taurian Concordat's contacts and communications with the Outworlds Alliance to set up an aid program to help ameliorate the situation through technical and capital transfers.
[] - Military Cooperation treaty: By forging an agreement to exchange intelligence on piracy, as well as the right to intervene militarily in a limited context, the Helgan Republic can draw the local government closer into its orbit.
 
Alligator Support Tank
This tank is non viable. Yes we have laser tanks in the workshoping PM but those used chem lasers rather then normal ones. This is a key difference because chem lasers count at ballistic weapons in regard to heat rules.

The alligator spends 11 tons on heat sinks for a mere 7 ton payload and a 3/5 movement profile. The only reason it's not a total death trap is our laser range bonus.
 
This tank is non viable. Yes we have laser tanks in the workshoping PM but those used chem lasers rather then normal ones. This is a key difference because chem lasers count at ballistic weapons in regard to heat rules.

The alligator spends 11 tons on heat sinks for a mere 7 ton payload and a 3/5 movement profile. The only reason it's not a total death trap is our laser range bonus.
So you're entire argument is the tank sucks because it doesn't use a tech that we've haven't been told that we have and it has a movement of 3/5 never mind it's purpose as a support vehicle for river crossings and beach landings.

Remember that whole series of post where I called out people and got temp banned? You know what's another thing I noticed but didn't mention? It's never my vehicle idea's that get put out or choosing by anybody but me. Cause let's look at the vehicles that have been choosing then who they are from it comes down to 2 people.

You didn't say "well there's problems with it and could be better" no you immediately declared it non-viable. Also I just checked and yes we do have laser vehicles in the design PM and unless they haven't been threadmarked the only one's I can find are mine which do have lasers.
 
So you're entire argument is the tank sucks because it doesn't use a tech that we've haven't been told that we have and it has a movement of 3/5 never mind it's purpose as a support vehicle for river crossings and beach landings.

Remember that whole series of post where I called out people and got temp banned? You know what's another thing I noticed but didn't mention? It's never my vehicle idea's that get put out or choosing by anybody but me. Cause let's look at the vehicles that have been choosing then who they are from it comes down to 2 people.

You didn't say "well there's problems with it and could be better" no you immediately declared it non-viable. Also I just checked and yes we do have laser vehicles in the design PM and unless they haven't been threadmarked the only one's I can find are mine which do have lasers.
One issue that could arise is that even with Helgan lasers having longer range, 4 medium lasers is still a disappointingly light main armament for a 50 ton platform, especially one that's so tremendously kneecapped by its other features that it can only afford to move at 3/5. A large laser would output less raw damage, yes, but it'd be more likely to come into play.

The thing would also get a lot better than it is if it could run off of fusion or something - even primitive fusion - just because that'd provide an extra 9 weight free heatsinks.

As it stands, it's an extremely slow, anemically armed medium tank which can only provide any sort of firepower as a result of helgan lasers being better than IS ones.

Lastly, it's completely useless for its intended purpose of river crossings and beach landings, because tracked combat vehicles cannot enter even depth 1 water (the shallowest water that affects the movement of units which enter it in the slightest mechanical way/can support a boat). Tracked support vehicles (basically impossible to arm or armor) can be built amphibious, but not combat vehicles. WiGEs can fly over water, boats can sail through it, and hovercrafts ignore its presence and float right overtop of it, but a tracked tank is categorically incapable of amphibious operations.
 
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So yes agree about the smuggling problem needs to be dealt with but the reason I held off of doing it is because I want to contact New Olso first and planning on choosing it next turn when we have contact and can interrogate where the guy got the weapons from.

Could swap out the Damascus for a "Fortunate Son" style write-in or as I suggested in my post at the bottom of page 404, leave some weapons to leak into the smugglers supply chain that have been laced with some isotope that we can pick up on specially attuned senors or RFID transmitters that only respond on certain frequencies. That way we get two lots of intel before actively starting to hunt the smugglers. Also means that we may be able to confirm any intel coming from the merchant we speak to. That said it's probably the plan I favour most at the moment.

[X] Plan Petrusite, October, and Gustave's
 
One issue that could arise is that even with Helgan lasers having longer range, 4 medium lasers is still a disappointingly light main armament for a 50 ton platform, especially one that's so tremendously kneecapped by its other features that it can only afford to move at 3/5. A large laser would output less raw damage, yes, but it'd be more likely to come into play.

The thing would also get a lot better than it is if it could run off of fusion or something - even primitive fusion - just because that'd provide an extra 9 weight free heatsinks.

As it stands, it's an extremely slow, anemically armed medium tank which can only provide any sort of firepower as a result of helgan lasers being better than IS ones.

Lastly, it's completely useless for its intended purpose of river crossings and beach landings, because tracked combat vehicles cannot enter even depth 1 water (the shallowest water that affects the movement of units which enter it in the slightest mechanical way/can support a boat). Tracked support vehicles (basically impossible to arm or armor) can be built amphibious, but not combat vehicles. WiGEs can fly over water, boats can sail through it, and hovercrafts ignore its presence and float right overtop of it, but a tracked tank is categorically incapable of amphibious operations.

In mechlab its technically possible to make tracked vehicles fully amphibious, it just costs 10% of the vehicles weight in tonnage but given we have antigrav i don't know why we would us it give it makes vehicles more expensive. How this translates to TT rules i have no idea. Unfortunately given that they are still SHS heatsinks that only gives 10 heat to play with, one of the few things i hope we can get is Compact heatsinks for vehicles, that way we could push that number up to 20. the intended role of amphibious ltv is a good one, but i agree this needs some major revision. Give it antigrav, pull the MLs and replace them with 4 SL, push the movement up to 6/9, and give it 6 tons of armor. that leaves it with enough to carry 12 troops.
 
So you're entire argument is the tank sucks because it doesn't use a tech that we've haven't been told that we have and it has a movement of 3/5 never mind it's purpose as a support vehicle for river crossings and beach landings.

Remember that whole series of post where I called out people and got temp banned? You know what's another thing I noticed but didn't mention? It's never my vehicle idea's that get put out or choosing by anybody but me. Cause let's look at the vehicles that have been choosing then who they are from it comes down to 2 people.

You didn't say "well there's problems with it and could be better" no you immediately declared it non-viable. Also I just checked and yes we do have laser vehicles in the design PM and unless they haven't been threadmarked the only one's I can find are mine which do have lasers.
Chem lasers are on our "things we need to research list". As for why I declared it nonviable rather then just saying its problematic is because it needs very specific technologies to function effectively (which we do not have) or it has to be rebuilt to such a degree its no longer recognizable as the initial vehicle you made.

For example to improve your build I would swap the engine to fusion/pursrite for the 10 free heat sinks. Then (assuming we are avoiding anti grav) I would switch it to wheeled to lower the budget for making it better able to handle water.

For the weapons I would immediately dump the medium lasers for 1 large laser and two small, perfectly using up the 10 free heat sinks. Now at this point their should be some free weight left over with which you can do what you want. Do you want to add another LRM 5? Do you want to add armor? Do you want to add troop capacity? You could do any of those or even a mix of them.
 
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First off thank you about the Fully Amphibious I was about to post that my self.

I'd also like to note that 4 MLasers is still 20 damage along with the LRM-5 with 1 ton of ammo is pretty strong fire power.

Now for design choices I went with a fuel-cell for a simple reason. Weight fusion engines are heavy and until we get XL or Lights there won't be enough room for the weapons systems. The 3/5 movement is again weight but is also a design reason in that due to being a river crossing beach assault support vehicle it's mostly going to be in support of infantry which means it doesn't need to be fast.

Now for why I went tracked well I was bouncing between the two Idea's the big thing that did it for me was Motive Hit's.

If the hover or anti grav itself is hit then vehicle basically crashes into the water and sits there. now with amphibious wheeled and tracked vehicles the main motive system is under water making it very difficult to stop it while it's "swimming" also wheeled and tracked is harder to hit while in the water because it's a smaller target then hover and Anti-grav floating above the water.

At 10.5 tons of armor on a 50 ton vehicle makes it pretty survivable which I consider not bad since it's based on the old LVT(A)s. Now could it have upgrades or be better? Yes but we simply don't have tech for it yet doesn't mean i'm not planning on stating them out in the future.
 
If the hover or anti grav itself is hit
*wince* okay ya i think its time to get pushy with the GM. but back to your tank here it is with some of the changes i suggeested along with max armor and a 4/6 MP rating. this gives you 3 or 6 tons to play with however you want.

Code:
New Tank
Base Tech Level: Experimental (IS)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced      3145+
Standard        - 
Tech Rating: E/X-X-X-E

Weight: 50 tons
BV: 864
Cost: 1,309,375 C-bills

Movement: 4/6 (Wheeled)
Engine: 180

Internal: 25
Armor: 215
        Internal  Armor   
---------------------------
Front          5     52   
Right          5     43   
Left           5     43   
Rear           5     34   
Turret         5     43   

Weapons      Loc  Heat 
------------------------
Large Laser   TU    8   
Small Laser   TU    1   
Small Laser   TU    1   
LRM 5         TU    2   

Ammo        Loc  Shots 
------------------------
LRM 5 Ammo   BD     24 

Equipment      Loc 
--------------------
Trailer Hitch   RR 
CASE            BD
Code:
New Tank
Base Tech Level: Experimental (IS)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced      3145+
Standard        - 
Tech Rating: E/X-X-X-E

Weight: 50 tons
BV: 933
Cost: 1,309,375 C-bills

Movement: 4/6 (Wheeled)
Engine: 180

Internal: 25
Armor: 215
        Internal  Armor   
---------------------------
Front          5     52   
Right          5     43   
Left           5     43   
Rear           5     34   
Turret         5     43   

Weapons      Loc  Heat 
------------------------
Large Laser   TU    8   
Small Laser   TU    1   
Small Laser   TU    1   
LRM 5         TU    2   

Ammo        Loc  Shots 
------------------------
LRM 5 Ammo   BD     24 

Equipment      Loc 
--------------------
Trailer Hitch   RR 
CASE            BD

I honestly don't think there is one since Killzone presents it as being used on everything from tanks to aircraft carrier-sized floating laboratories and half-kilometre long spaceships.
can we get some solid rules on counter-grav for tanks and such? each person doing desgining has been treating them differntly which is complicating them to a massive degree (Coyote treating them as another form of hover and me using modfied track rules for them are the two most recent examples).
 
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can we get some solid rules on counter-grav for tanks and such? each person doing desgining has been treating them differntly which is complicating them to a massive degree (Coyote treating them as another form of hover and me using modfied track rules for them are the two most recent examples).

Agreed, honestly i favor the tracked system given that IMO because i feel that anti grav should be more resistant to motive hits than hover, given that it not a giant skirt and fan system delicately balancing an Xton vehicle on top of it. I feel the same for antigrav aero and lawn dart checks.
 
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