Westernesse: A Númenórean Colony Quest
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
I pretty much agree with everything you are doing. Though, the downside of going for Elrond is that we may also need to do something to make the farmers happy this turn or the next.
We'll build them pastures next turn, maybe, if something cooler doesn't come up as an option. People like sheep and goats. You get meat, milk, and wool.
That's why I was hesitant to include Rivendell. The farmers don't just dislike it but stringently so, which is rather strong, but it's also only 1 of our 7 speakers opposing an action. Plus its Elrond, I thought even the King's Men had a soft spot for him in particular.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
Hmm. It might be that the particular Farmer Speaker is more anti elf than the average King's men. Hall is not perfectly representative of public opinion.
- Location
- Russia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Fission Battery , I like your plan, but maybe swap Barazir from Search For Signs of Gundabad's Influence to Scout Gundabad? The worst case scenario without hero in "Search For Signs" - we shall not find any signs. The worst case scenario without hero in Scout Gundabad - our scouts will not return. Which is much, much worse.
Also I preferred diplomacy expedition in Lond Daer and two Lindon locations, but I can see your point. This will anger farmers even further, and we need that wood from trade. I only hope that we have enough stone for that deal...
Also I preferred diplomacy expedition in Lond Daer and two Lindon locations, but I can see your point. This will anger farmers even further, and we need that wood from trade. I only hope that we have enough stone for that deal...
Our scouts managed to make their way up the White Mountain without too much issue. I can see your point, but having a hero try to track down signs of an enemy's presence seems like a better use for them then having them play escort. It's a much more complicated task, so I think is a good use of a hero at the moment, even if they're locked into it for two turns.
We can do a bit of diplomacy as well as trade, but the primary purpose is to sell them stone in exchange for wood. We aren't gonna dress it up to them. We need to meet our current demand for wood until we can convince Ironbark we'll be good stewards of the forest, hopefully. We could ignore him and start chopping down trees, but we know where it leads to.
- Location
- Russia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes, this is simple, direct, understanble, neat and wrong solution...
But Gundabad is not in the White Mountains. It is on the north of Misty Mountains, beyond Enedwaith, Eregion and Rivendell. I assume that it is extremely dangerous task, and hero escort is not a luxury but a way to survive.
We do it only if we crit fail or something and Ironbark declares war on us first in spite our best efforts. I hope that doesn't happen, but if it does, well then chainsaws go brrrr.
Well, that's a good point. I hadn't quite realized how far away it was. I've made the change. Barazir is on scouting duty.
Concerning pissing off the farmers:
Launching expeditions and building ships is two things we realistically want to be doing anyway. So not appeasing every political group every turn isn't a huge deal if we're consistently working towards naval development, which we need to be, as the Venturers don't much like us, so we can't rely on them. Playing into the sea-going aspect of our national identity is a pretty easy way to win good boy points with both the public and our sponsors, because we're also putting the Shipwright to use.
I'd say we need to start giving land to the farmers eventually, though, not to make them happy, but because more food means more supplies for Ships, and the ability to maintain a higher population.
Your plan looks good Fission Battery.
I'd personally swap out the Rivendell action to the Build a Ship action, with orders to cannibalize if we can't get wood from the trade route or by working something out with Ironbark. I figure we can afford to lose some of the lesser ships to prove to our sponsors that we're capable of Shipmaking in our own right. I think a Ship with a capital S is a strong mark in our favor, as it's both extremely visible and plays on Numenorean pride. And it's an excuse for us to push for additional funding for the upkeep and production of more.
It gets us started on building a core of experienced workers who can create ships without the Shipwright, for when he inevitably kicks the bucket. The second ship could also be used as a training vessel for a turn or two, to train up a larger talent pool for Inzilbeth, so she doesn't have to keep grabbing the Seastriders every time she goes out. And considering recent events, we might need the Seastriders close to home most of the time.
I also really want to send the first Târ Nîlon made ship back to Numenor to escort whatever ship the inspector is coming on. Just to flex.
Launching expeditions and building ships is two things we realistically want to be doing anyway. So not appeasing every political group every turn isn't a huge deal if we're consistently working towards naval development, which we need to be, as the Venturers don't much like us, so we can't rely on them. Playing into the sea-going aspect of our national identity is a pretty easy way to win good boy points with both the public and our sponsors, because we're also putting the Shipwright to use.
I'd say we need to start giving land to the farmers eventually, though, not to make them happy, but because more food means more supplies for Ships, and the ability to maintain a higher population.
Your plan looks good Fission Battery.
I'd personally swap out the Rivendell action to the Build a Ship action, with orders to cannibalize if we can't get wood from the trade route or by working something out with Ironbark. I figure we can afford to lose some of the lesser ships to prove to our sponsors that we're capable of Shipmaking in our own right. I think a Ship with a capital S is a strong mark in our favor, as it's both extremely visible and plays on Numenorean pride. And it's an excuse for us to push for additional funding for the upkeep and production of more.
It gets us started on building a core of experienced workers who can create ships without the Shipwright, for when he inevitably kicks the bucket. The second ship could also be used as a training vessel for a turn or two, to train up a larger talent pool for Inzilbeth, so she doesn't have to keep grabbing the Seastriders every time she goes out. And considering recent events, we might need the Seastriders close to home most of the time.
I also really want to send the first Târ Nîlon made ship back to Numenor to escort whatever ship the inspector is coming on. Just to flex.
I think that's a bit too ambitious at the moment. We could try for building a ship next turn, depending on our things work out, but it's a bit soon to start journeying out Numorean Ships. We should probably lay the foundations for the grand harbour next turn, since we did pick out Numenorean Iron for that reason. If we haven't started on that by the time they show up then we might look a bit uncoordinated. Our colony is only a year old. It's a bit soon to expect us to make Ships with a capital S. We'll get there soon enough though.
The farmers will hopefully be placated by our other decisions. My plan calls for an expedition, so that should play to their pride.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
Hmm. After talking with the middle man dude, we should figure out a way out to convince the lord of Tharbad to stop fucking with the folks of Eregion so hard in order to make progress on gaining the friendship of Longbeards. Narrative wise, it seems a better way to gain some reputation with them.
- Location
- Australia
Yeah, it's a good way to kill two birds with one stone, and a strong argument for (at least temporarily) accepting Tharbad's offer. Although, actually, looking at a map of Eriador, it depends on how mister Tharbadguy defines 'south of the Gwathlo.' If that (theoretically) extends all the way up through Eregion to Rivendell on the Bruinen, then yeah, it's a way to both aid our Middle Men neighbors and potentially start befriending the Longbeards. If, on the other hand, our remit would stop at the Glanduin, and Tharbad continues extorting tribute from upriver, we may miss out on aiding any of the Middle Men closest to Khazad-dûm.
@Telamon, may we assume the former?
- Location
- Texas
The former is certainly a valid interpretation of his statement, yes. How it works out in practice remains to be seen.
We shouldn't agree to anything without more information. It makes us look unreliable if we agree to a deal and then renege on it. We got the Warden of Tharbad by the balls and he knows it. That's why he's so quick to offer up deal in the hopes we accept and let it slide, when we don't even know what we're agreeing to. Never buy property without seeing the site for yourself, especially when its someone else's property, which the Warden has no right offering it to us in the first place.
We get information, open up new opportunities, then go back to him and work from there. There's no reason to agree to the deal. It benefits the Warden more than us.
It could make us implicit in his crimes. If we don't report it and the King somehow finds out about it we could say we didn't know, or if pressed say we were gathering evidence against him. If we agree to it that makes us involved with his crime because he's explicitly trying to buy our silence by giving us a portion of the illegal tribute. Obviously we have no intent on gathering said tribute, but that really looks bad in a court to claim "I only agreed to be bribed in order to stop him from raiding people. I accepted absolutely no tribute from the locals that I didn't report!" We'd have the evidence us back it up, but it'd look real bad for us.
I could imagine it now. We aren't King's Men or Faithful, no we'd be worse than that in Numenor's eyes, because at least the Faithful are honouring an old friendship. We'd a bunch of opportunistic imperialists setting up petty kingdoms of half-bloods to rule over, lording over Middle Men like tyrants in a forgotten corner of the world.
I don't think such a scenario would play out, and it is a touch overdramatic, but the main point is accepting someone's bride to ignore illegal activities doesn't look good. It's also amusing the horrible spin some in Numenor are going to put on our Men of the West approach to diplomacy.
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I'm personally fine with this, i mean i'd prefer to take the deal as by all accounts, middle men and tharbad, tharbad does essentially have dominion over the enedwraith. How strong that is is up to discussion, but he does seem to hold a measure of control. But simply not immediately accepting the deal isn't going to change the strategic situation at all for us. And doesn't implicate us in anything.
There is a solution to this matter in my eyes. Take marginal protection money from the middle men (like 1/10th of what Tharbad takes) after either the present deal or an altered deal is made. Back it up by you know, actually proactively protecting the middle men from orcs and evil men, which they are in no position to deal with. Then send a small tribute down to Numenor. Now, even if Tharbads treachery is discovered as more Numenorian settlements are established. We simply look like normal Numenorians acting as they should, giving due tribute to the king rather than a patsy of Tharbad. And the king, seeing that we are paying him some of our earnings may support our territorial claims, ensuring that no new colonialists will pull a Tharbad 2.0
So long as Tharbad doesn't in turn throw us under the bus(Which they dont really have motive for), by informing the Numenorians that we knew of their dealings (which we can deny). We come out looking golden, with some hopefully prospering middle men allies to boot. (In ideal circumstances)
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[X] Plan Surveying the Land
-[X] Build A Shipyard: To properly utilize the Shipwright you brought with you, you begin construction on a great shipyard where vessels in the Númenórean style may be built.
-[X] Build A Shaping Hall: A domed hall of cast stone, where the Shapers may plan, gather, and study. Most every colony has one. It would allow for a greater variety of construction projects, they assure you, and allow for several projects to be worked on at once. (Grows Shaper Influence)
--[X] Uriphel
-[X] Scout Gundabad: Beyond the Misty Mountains lies a mountain the dwarves mourn in their hearts. Evil stirs there now. Send rangers to scout the Mountain, and see what wakes in the north. A sizeable population of your people support doing this -- 4 Speakers are behind it.
--[X] Barazir
-[X] Search For Signs of Gundabad's Influence: There are whispers. Shadows in the dark. Shapes in the waters. Eyes in the forests. Evil awake in the lands of men. Orcs are about all Eriador, from the wide woods of Minhiriath to the ruins of Eregion. Seek them, and uncover their vile purpose. (Takes Two Turns)
-[X] Send An Envoy to Brun Gledd: Several leagues north of the city lies Brun Gledd, a town built into and under six seperate hills. It was dug by the dwarves long ago, but it's first name is now long lost, and it is ruled by the Enedwaithrim and their aging lord Braelor. Send an envoy to break words with the Middle-Men.
-[X] Send An Envoy To Rivendell: Imladris, or Rivendell, is an elvish stronghold deep in the heartlands of Eriador. Founded and ruled by the Elf-Lord Elrond Halfelven, it serves as a bastion of wisdom and learning in these later days of the world, projecting Elvish might into all eastern Eriador. The elves of Rivendell are force to be reckoned with, and are great traders and loremasters besides. It would not be unwise to make their acquaintance. A very large portion of your people support doing this -- 6 Speakers are behind it. 1 is stringently opposed, representing the farmers.
-[X] Ironbark: In the deeps of the Iron Forest dwells an ent, an old thing with old eyes. He is no foe, not yet. But he is no friend of men, you do not think. Not anymore. Break words with him, and see if the strength of oak and yew might be bent in friendship. (requires hero)
--[X] Imrazor
-[X] Explore Enedwaith: There is still much in the lands around your city that you do not know. Send searchers to find valuable natural resources or ancient treasures, and map your new home fully. A sizeable share of your people support doing this -- 3 Speakers are behind it.
-[X] The Gwathlo: You have made contact with the master of the Gwathlo, and the ford is held, as it has been for ten thousand lifetimes of the small men, by Númenór. If you so wish it, your men may pass beyond the ford, and see how Minhiriath has changed in ten centuries. The men of Tharbad speak of myraid towns and villages, and of civilizations flourishing in the wild. Venture past the Greyflood, and see what has become of these lands.
-[X] Plan An Expedition:
---[X] The Pillar of Heaven
---[X] Inzilbeth Seastrider
---[X] (Special) (Requires Inzilbeth) Reunite the Crew of the Pillar: Inzilbeth's old crew have been sailing the rivers and serving as an impromptu city guard. Have them trade the sword for the seaspray. (Temporarily disbands the Seastriders)
--[X] The Mariner's Route: This path travels from Lond Daer to Romenna on the Blessed Isle, and finishes at Pelargir. (Costs 1 supplies)
--[X] Trade
---[X] Stone: You have a small amount of surplus stone left over. You have heard they hunger for it in crumbling Lond Daer and ever-besieged Umbar.
-[X] Build A Shipyard: To properly utilize the Shipwright you brought with you, you begin construction on a great shipyard where vessels in the Númenórean style may be built.
-[X] Build A Shaping Hall: A domed hall of cast stone, where the Shapers may plan, gather, and study. Most every colony has one. It would allow for a greater variety of construction projects, they assure you, and allow for several projects to be worked on at once. (Grows Shaper Influence)
--[X] Uriphel
-[X] Scout Gundabad: Beyond the Misty Mountains lies a mountain the dwarves mourn in their hearts. Evil stirs there now. Send rangers to scout the Mountain, and see what wakes in the north. A sizeable population of your people support doing this -- 4 Speakers are behind it.
--[X] Barazir
-[X] Search For Signs of Gundabad's Influence: There are whispers. Shadows in the dark. Shapes in the waters. Eyes in the forests. Evil awake in the lands of men. Orcs are about all Eriador, from the wide woods of Minhiriath to the ruins of Eregion. Seek them, and uncover their vile purpose. (Takes Two Turns)
-[X] Send An Envoy to Brun Gledd: Several leagues north of the city lies Brun Gledd, a town built into and under six seperate hills. It was dug by the dwarves long ago, but it's first name is now long lost, and it is ruled by the Enedwaithrim and their aging lord Braelor. Send an envoy to break words with the Middle-Men.
-[X] Send An Envoy To Rivendell: Imladris, or Rivendell, is an elvish stronghold deep in the heartlands of Eriador. Founded and ruled by the Elf-Lord Elrond Halfelven, it serves as a bastion of wisdom and learning in these later days of the world, projecting Elvish might into all eastern Eriador. The elves of Rivendell are force to be reckoned with, and are great traders and loremasters besides. It would not be unwise to make their acquaintance. A very large portion of your people support doing this -- 6 Speakers are behind it. 1 is stringently opposed, representing the farmers.
-[X] Ironbark: In the deeps of the Iron Forest dwells an ent, an old thing with old eyes. He is no foe, not yet. But he is no friend of men, you do not think. Not anymore. Break words with him, and see if the strength of oak and yew might be bent in friendship. (requires hero)
--[X] Imrazor
-[X] Explore Enedwaith: There is still much in the lands around your city that you do not know. Send searchers to find valuable natural resources or ancient treasures, and map your new home fully. A sizeable share of your people support doing this -- 3 Speakers are behind it.
-[X] The Gwathlo: You have made contact with the master of the Gwathlo, and the ford is held, as it has been for ten thousand lifetimes of the small men, by Númenór. If you so wish it, your men may pass beyond the ford, and see how Minhiriath has changed in ten centuries. The men of Tharbad speak of myraid towns and villages, and of civilizations flourishing in the wild. Venture past the Greyflood, and see what has become of these lands.
-[X] Plan An Expedition:
---[X] The Pillar of Heaven
---[X] Inzilbeth Seastrider
---[X] (Special) (Requires Inzilbeth) Reunite the Crew of the Pillar: Inzilbeth's old crew have been sailing the rivers and serving as an impromptu city guard. Have them trade the sword for the seaspray. (Temporarily disbands the Seastriders)
--[X] The Mariner's Route: This path travels from Lond Daer to Romenna on the Blessed Isle, and finishes at Pelargir. (Costs 1 supplies)
--[X] Trade
---[X] Stone: You have a small amount of surplus stone left over. You have heard they hunger for it in crumbling Lond Daer and ever-besieged Umbar.
ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
[X] Plan Laying the Foundations
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- Location
- Russia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As for dwarven war - I am not sure. Var's folk seems sympathetic to me, and I want to help them. But I understand that friendship wuth Durin's folk could bring more benefits, despite this quest-chain of them. In ideal situation we can help both... but this will probably not end well.
Okay, this is concern for the another time.
Okay, this is concern for the another time.
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[X] Plan Surveying the Land
I would suggest a different expedition:
1st stop Lond Daer to sell the stone
and the north with diplomatic visits to two of Lindon's ports.
As we can do both trade and diplomacy on one trip, Lond Dear want stone but we have only a small amount so a single port visit would be enough to sell it.
1st stop Lond Daer to sell the stone
and the north with diplomatic visits to two of Lindon's ports.
As we can do both trade and diplomacy on one trip, Lond Dear want stone but we have only a small amount so a single port visit would be enough to sell it.
Making my plan active:
[X] Plan Inspector Calls
[X] Build A Barracks: Not just a clearing where the swords are kept, but a building made for soldiers to sleep. A necessity in transforming the militia into a viable City Guard.
[X] Build A Granary: A large domed building for the storage of food and other supplies. Resources would necessitate it be built from wood, but it would insulate the colony against hard winters and short harvests. (2 turns)
- [X] Imrazor
[X] Establish Pastures: Grain is well and good, but some among your smallholders have been aching to purchase sheep and goats in large numbers from the Middle-Men, that they might establish their own herds. Stake out plots of land where they may graze. (will reduce possible construction projects by one) A decent population of your people support doing this -- 3 Speakers are behind it.
[X] Scout Gundabad: Beyond the Misty Mountains lies a mountain the dwarves mourn in their hearts. Evil stirs there now. Send rangers to scout the Mountain, and see what wakes in the north. A sizeable population of your people support doing this -- 4 Speakers are behind it.
[X] Search For Signs of Gundabad's Influence: There are whispers. Shadows in the dark. Shapes in the waters. Eyes in the forests. Evil awake in the lands of men. Orcs are about all Eriador, from the wide woods of Minhiriath to the ruins of Eregion. Seek them, and uncover their vile purpose. (Takes Two Turns)
[X] The Lord of the Tower: At the close of your terse meeting, the Warden of Tharbad made you an offer: the tribute of all the lands south of the Gwathlo, which he currently holds, or claims to hold. Implicit in this offer was a desire to keep the affairs of Middle-Earth between those who rule on Middle-Earth. As is often said in the colonies of Númenór, "Êphal îdôn Yôzâyan, Êphalak îdôn ka-Bâr"-- Númenór is distant and the King is far away. You perceived something of his true heart in this discussion, and understand that you might have more leverage with the master of the ford than first believed.
-[X] Accept his offer
[X] Send An Envoy To Rivendell: Imladris, or Rivendell, is an elvish stronghold deep in the heartlands of Eriador. Founded and ruled by the Elf-Lord Elrond Halfelven, it serves as a bastion of wisdom and learning in these later days of the world, projecting Elvish might into all eastern Eriador. The elves of Rivendell are force to be reckoned with, and are great traders and loremasters besides. It would not be unwise to make their acquaintance. A very large portion of your people support doing this -- 6 Speakers are behind it. 1 is stringently opposed, representing the farmers.
[X] Ironbark: In the deeps of the Iron Forest dwells an ent, an old thing with old eyes. He is no foe, not yet. But he is no friend of men, you do not think. Not anymore. Break words with him, and see if the strength of oak and yew might be bent in friendship. (requires hero)
- [x] Uruphel
[X] The Misty Mountains: The Misty Mountains which straddle the spine of Eriador are some of the tallest mountains in Middle-Earth. From the great outposts of the dwarves to the deep caves of the goblin-kings, there are many secrets to be found amid the snowy peaks. You send men into the high mountains to explore and map them further. (2/6)
[X] The Land of the Ringmakers: Eregion, to your north, was once one of the great Elvish realms until it's destruction by the Dark Lord in the War of the Elves and Sauron long ago. Here dwelt the elf-smiths whom the Enemy tricked into creating the Rings of Power, and amid the ruins of their halls and cities lie ancient artifacts from the glory days of the Elves. You send explorers and riders into this land to map it further. (2/6)
I still think that calling for an inspection was a bit premature, but, since we did, it's better that we prepare well for it and build some essential stuff before we move onto lore halls and personal residences.
meanwhile, half of our Diplomacy options (not to mention seafaring) are now tied up by the lack of supplies; so, pastures and granary it is. As we would need wood for ships, better reach some kind of agreement with the ents beforehand.
And, of course, we would need to appease the Venturers, now that we have the means for trade. feeding them good maps seems a nice first step.
[X] Plan Inspector Calls
[X] Build A Barracks: Not just a clearing where the swords are kept, but a building made for soldiers to sleep. A necessity in transforming the militia into a viable City Guard.
[X] Build A Granary: A large domed building for the storage of food and other supplies. Resources would necessitate it be built from wood, but it would insulate the colony against hard winters and short harvests. (2 turns)
- [X] Imrazor
[X] Establish Pastures: Grain is well and good, but some among your smallholders have been aching to purchase sheep and goats in large numbers from the Middle-Men, that they might establish their own herds. Stake out plots of land where they may graze. (will reduce possible construction projects by one) A decent population of your people support doing this -- 3 Speakers are behind it.
[X] Scout Gundabad: Beyond the Misty Mountains lies a mountain the dwarves mourn in their hearts. Evil stirs there now. Send rangers to scout the Mountain, and see what wakes in the north. A sizeable population of your people support doing this -- 4 Speakers are behind it.
[X] Search For Signs of Gundabad's Influence: There are whispers. Shadows in the dark. Shapes in the waters. Eyes in the forests. Evil awake in the lands of men. Orcs are about all Eriador, from the wide woods of Minhiriath to the ruins of Eregion. Seek them, and uncover their vile purpose. (Takes Two Turns)
[X] The Lord of the Tower: At the close of your terse meeting, the Warden of Tharbad made you an offer: the tribute of all the lands south of the Gwathlo, which he currently holds, or claims to hold. Implicit in this offer was a desire to keep the affairs of Middle-Earth between those who rule on Middle-Earth. As is often said in the colonies of Númenór, "Êphal îdôn Yôzâyan, Êphalak îdôn ka-Bâr"-- Númenór is distant and the King is far away. You perceived something of his true heart in this discussion, and understand that you might have more leverage with the master of the ford than first believed.
-[X] Accept his offer
[X] Send An Envoy To Rivendell: Imladris, or Rivendell, is an elvish stronghold deep in the heartlands of Eriador. Founded and ruled by the Elf-Lord Elrond Halfelven, it serves as a bastion of wisdom and learning in these later days of the world, projecting Elvish might into all eastern Eriador. The elves of Rivendell are force to be reckoned with, and are great traders and loremasters besides. It would not be unwise to make their acquaintance. A very large portion of your people support doing this -- 6 Speakers are behind it. 1 is stringently opposed, representing the farmers.
[X] Ironbark: In the deeps of the Iron Forest dwells an ent, an old thing with old eyes. He is no foe, not yet. But he is no friend of men, you do not think. Not anymore. Break words with him, and see if the strength of oak and yew might be bent in friendship. (requires hero)
- [x] Uruphel
[X] The Misty Mountains: The Misty Mountains which straddle the spine of Eriador are some of the tallest mountains in Middle-Earth. From the great outposts of the dwarves to the deep caves of the goblin-kings, there are many secrets to be found amid the snowy peaks. You send men into the high mountains to explore and map them further. (2/6)
[X] The Land of the Ringmakers: Eregion, to your north, was once one of the great Elvish realms until it's destruction by the Dark Lord in the War of the Elves and Sauron long ago. Here dwelt the elf-smiths whom the Enemy tricked into creating the Rings of Power, and amid the ruins of their halls and cities lie ancient artifacts from the glory days of the Elves. You send explorers and riders into this land to map it further. (2/6)
I still think that calling for an inspection was a bit premature, but, since we did, it's better that we prepare well for it and build some essential stuff before we move onto lore halls and personal residences.
meanwhile, half of our Diplomacy options (not to mention seafaring) are now tied up by the lack of supplies; so, pastures and granary it is. As we would need wood for ships, better reach some kind of agreement with the ents beforehand.
And, of course, we would need to appease the Venturers, now that we have the means for trade. feeding them good maps seems a nice first step.
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