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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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@soulcake Is it possible to gift an Adamant Smelter to our local Smelter Guild? One doesn't need to be a Runesmith to operate it, right?
The Guild could then sell their Adamant to other Runesmiths/Runelords of our Hold, which would be nice
 
Pempelune said:
soulcake Is it possible to gift an Adamant Smelter to our local Smelter Guild? One doesn't need to be a Runesmith to operate it, right?
The Guild could then sell their Adamant to other Runesmiths/Runelords of our Hold, which would be nice
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I don't think that the thread would ever ever ever vote for that. Adamant is to precious for us and I don't like the idea of people just selling Adamant like that.

The Rule of Pride would also make it so that we can't make another smelter for ten or so turns after that.
 
MrHobbit said:
I don't think that the thread would ever ever ever vote for that. Adamant is to precious for us and I don't like the idea of people just selling Adamant like that.

The Rule of Pride would also make it so that we can't make another smelter for ten or so turns after that.
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We've got enough Adamant for ourselves at it is, though. If we do end up making another one, making its Adamant available to other Runelords would be a good use of it.
 
Pempelune said:
We've got enough Adamant for ourselves at it is, though. If we do end up making another one, making its Adamant available to other Runelords would be a good use of it.
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Not really, Adamant is a prestige thing. There is a reason why the Brotherhood of Dron challenges prospective Runesmiths to create it. Also, the rate of Adamant production would just be so slow that it wouldn't really be worth Snorri's time. It works for personal use because there is no one else potentially buying it up before you can, it is just a pain in the ass if it is public.
 
Pempelune said:
We've got enough Adamant for ourselves at it is, though. If we do end up making another one, making its Adamant available to other Runelords would be a good use of it.
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No such thing as enough adamant for ourselves. There are plans floating around the thread for a bloodthirster sized Grimnir gronti either plated with or made of solid adamant which would use up a ton. Once the other ancestors leave it opens up the possiblity of doing the same for all of them, then there's also giving the Hearthguard adamant equipment if we really have a ton stockpiled.
 
MrHobbit said:
Not really, Adamant is a prestige thing. There is a reason why the Brotherhood of Dron challenges prospective Runesmiths to create it. Also, the rate of Adamant production would just be so slow that it wouldn't really be worth Snorri's time. It works for personal use because there is no one else potentially buying it up before you can, it is just a pain in the ass if it is public.
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Adamant is more than a prestige thing, it also boosts Runes. And one adamant bar per turn would already be great for other Runelords, remember that one bar is enough for one weapon or talisman.
 
I wonder if we did end up giving a trickle of adamant away, whether it could end up being incredibly useful for some crafts in very small quantities, such as the working surfaces/points of stamps, files, and tiny saws that jewellers use. A single bar of adamant might be able to make many hundreds of such tools.

Fjolla would probably find adamant tools very useful, given her specialism in gemstones, for example.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:

Actions		Turn 36 – Princely Wedding DueTurn 37 – Grave Wardens AcceptTurn 38Turn 39Turn 40 – Armoured Maidens DueTurn 41Turn 42 – Grave Wardens Due
AP 1Dronril, DronwutThe Rune Metal Pt. 2BUnderstand Valaya's RunesArmoured MaidensArmoured MaidensGrave WardensGrave Wardens
AP 2A Princely Wedding Pt. 2The Rune Metal Pt. 2BUnderstand Valaya's RunesArmoured MaidensArmoured MaidensGrave WardensGrave Wardens
AP 3A Princely Wedding Pt. 2The Rune Metal Pt. 2BUnderstand Valaya's RunesArmoured MaidensArmoured MaidensGrave WardensGrave Wardens
AP 4Master Rune of Purification (provisional)The Rune Metal Pt. 2BUnderstand Valaya's RunesArmoured MaidensArmoured MaidensGrave Wardens
AP 5Hold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingHold FoundingGrave Wardens
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Better to put Armoured Maidens before Valaya's Runes. Current order means Snorri will scramble for full two decades to meet deadline - and if anything requies his time he will fail that deadline. And it can happen. Unexpected campaign we very much like to join, issues with wrought limb, issues with brana in retinue.

Better leave Snorri some wiggle room just in case.
 
[X] Plan Wedding Gifts and Strange Feathers

This seems like the most efficient plan given the intention to research Valaya's basket. We have reason to believe that Phoenix feathers could help with runes related to both healing and load bearing.

DiceOfStupidity said:
Better to put Armoured Maidens before Valaya's Runes. Current order means Snorri will scramble for full two decades to meet deadline - and if anything requies his time he will fail that deadline. And it can happen. Unexpected campaign we very much like to join, issues with wrought limb, issues with brana in retinue.

Better leave Snorri some wiggle room just in case.
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The whole point of doing Valayan runes is that they might prove useful for the commission. If we're doing them afterwards, there are lots of other things that could be higher priority.

That's why it makes sense to do the Firebird Feathers now, as they're the most likely research to discount the Valayan runes.
 
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Pempelune said:
Adamant is more than a prestige thing, it also boosts Runes. And one adamant bar per turn would already be great for other Runelords, remember that one bar is enough for one weapon or talisman.
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I am aware that it boosts the Runes, that is part of why it is so good. That one Adamant bar would be fought over by the Runelords and Runesmiths. A public institution can't really make a business off of selling one item every decade. Even if it does make other items.

Whereas using Adamant enough that the other Runesmiths of the Hold start poking at Adamant themselves is much more likely to get actual results.

DiceOfStupidity said:
Better to put Armoured Maidens before Valaya's Runes. Current order means Snorri will scramble for full two decades to meet deadline - and if anything requies his time he will fail that deadline. And it can happen. Unexpected campaign we very much like to join, issues with wrought limb, issues with brana in retinue.

Better leave Snorri some wiggle room just in case.
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I have absolutely no intention of joining a campaign or anything. While I am skeptical about the short term utility of Valaya's Runes, I do not believe we will have issues with fulfilling the deadline. Runesmith contracts (and especially those for Runelords) have clauses for that eventuality. Furthermore, the thread has shown a remarkable ability to adhere to plans for the past few turns. It is perfectly in character for Runelords to hole themselves in their workshops doing Research and Work and not join the Throng for a century.
 
Before we share adamant smelting broadly I think that we'd want to look to understand how the adamant smelting actually works in more detail. It's a bit embarrassing to share a black box process that you only know works, but not why.

I think that means both Alchemy research and understanding the Master Rune of Purification, and quite possibly compressing the Adamant Maker combo and then understanding that. All that would be a long way off.
 
Just a thought but if we compress the Adamant maker then we can make almost arbitrary numbers of smelters by changing the supporting runes that flank the "Adamant Maker" Master-rune.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Just a thought but if we compress the Adamant maker then we can make almost arbitrary numbers of smelters by changing the supporting runes that flank the "Adamant Maker" Master-rune.
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I doubt soulcake would let us do that. It would be rather cheap.

Also the Master Rune of Adamant Making would probably need a Tier 5 regent. Or maybe it uses voidstone.
 
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MrHobbit said:
I doubt soulcake would let us do that. It would be rather cheap.

Also the Master Rune of Adamant Making would probably be a Tier 5 regent. Or maybe it uses voidstone.
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Almost definitely uses voidstones, so it'd be more accurate to say we can exhaust our ingredient supply I suppose. Still worth looking into as a way to open up the bottleneck on adamant.
 
If we do ever compress adamant into a single rune I suspect the main benefit will be the ability to add runes and/or a combo that draws power more efficiently so we can use the adamant maker more often. Like in theory MAdamant + Spelleating should recharge much faster if we hire a brana to shoot spells at it and maybe an appropriate third rune could have it automatically drawn in power from ingredients.
 
Jreengus said:
If we do ever compress adamant into a single rune I suspect the main benefit will be the ability to add runes and/or a combo that draws power more efficiently so we can use the adamant maker more often. Like in theory MAdamant + Spelleating should recharge much faster if we hire a brana to shoot spells at it and maybe an appropriate third rune could have it automatically drawn in power from ingredients.
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Probably spelleating + spellbreaking + MAdamant.
At least from what I can glance of the Conversion Combo.
One Rune to break the spell, one to absorb the spell and the third to make use of the power so gained.


Combo, Conversion: [Rune of Spelleating, Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Warding] [Failed enemy magic casts are transformed into a cushion when battle rolls are lost.]The spell is broken, the spell is eaten, the power is used to shield you.

If we ever want to remake our Amulet we should compress that combo into a Masterrune.
 
Speaking about new adamant smelter - would Barak Azamar / Zhargal have affect on it? Runes struck with those are said to last longer and recharge faster. Recharge time have direct effect on adamant yield.

Also, would it be possible to use adamant when making new smelter? Current smelters have Master Rune of Purification set in Pure Gromril. The same rune set in adamant should be stronger, hopefully also increasing yield.
 
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DiceOfStupidity said:
Speaking about new adamant smelter - would Barak Azamar / Zhargal have affect on it? Runes struck with those are said to last longer and recharge faster. Recharge time have direct effect on adamant yield.

Also, would it be possible to use adamant when making new smelter? Current smelters have Master Rune of Purification set in Pure Gromril. The same rune set in adamant should be stronger, hopefully also increasing yield.
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the question is, how much adamant does an adamant adamant smelter cost?
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Just a thought but if we compress the Adamant maker then we can make almost arbitrary numbers of smelters by changing the supporting runes that flank the "Adamant Maker" Master-rune.
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I've already covered this. Just changing the Runes around this hypothetical Master Rune is still going to run afoul of the Rule of Pride in spirit eventually, even more so if it looks like you're doing it solely to Rules lawyer it to get more Adamant. Making a lot of them over your life is one thing, spamming out Master Runes and using the justification of changing two of the Runes around it as proof that you're not breaking the Rule of Pride is another.

The Runelords may not be able to claim you a heretic in the technical sense, but they will think you're purposefully dismissing tradition and flaunting it by doing so in that fashion.

Dwarfs are not blind to that kind of gaming-ness, nor has Snorri ever shown himself IC to be willing to go to such a level.
 
soulcake said:
I've already covered this. Just changing the Runes around this hypothetical Master Rune is still going to run afoul of the Rule of Pride in spirit eventually, even more so if it looks like you're doing it solely to Rules lawyer it to get more Adamant. Making a lot of them over your life is one thing, spamming out Master Runes and using the justification of changing two of the Runes around it as proof that you're not breaking the Rule of Pride is another.

The Runelords may not be able to claim you a heretic in the technical sense, but they will think you're purposefully dismissing tradition and flaunting it by doing so in that fashion.

Dwarfs are not blind to that kind of gaming-ness, nor has Snorri ever shown himself IC to be willing to go to such a level.
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That's fair I suppose if we're genuinely looking into making new combos that make use of the adamant maker master rune that'd be qualitatively different enough to count.
 
Given the level of secrecy involved in any runelord's business, it would seem to be pretty hard for others to know whether a Runelord is cynically spamming variants of arrays containing the compressed Adamant Maker or whether they've just come up with a really good smelter design/rune array, upgraded the Master Rune like we've done for Awakening, or even created and compressed another Master Rune containing Adamant Maker. Trying to find out would seem to be a radical breach of tradition itself.

Particularly if the Runelord in question stockpiles lots of their output for later projects.

Also, we've repeatedly used the same Master Rune. We've used the Master Rune of Awakening at least three times, and the Master Rune of Conduction at least twice.

Not that I'm saying that we should cynically create random arrays containing a compressed Adamant Maker, but I can see trying out a few designers of smelter trying to hunt for combos, given how valuable that could be. Particularly if we manage to derive a Deep Magic or Alchemy rune from our other research streams.
 
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