Remove ads

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
Yeah. I was just going at it with the assumption that whatever level we reach would enable us to make gromril chainmail even if it would take the same effort as if we made something with a Master Rune.

If not, then oh well.

I do want to give Gimli a reminder of our talk though.
 
Well we'll have a better idea of how long chain will take once we start doing the research, we can always keep the idea in mind incase it will work.
 
Last edited:
BungieONI said:
That we spend our remaining Brotherhood favor.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Given the change to how favor increases standing and that at least for locations standing 7 gives a bonus I would rather not spend Brotherhood favor and instead try and save up for standing 7 and whatever bonus that brings.

Also not a fan of going down chain so much as that is continuing to ignore the main line rune metal which if anything like adamant will have a very slow rate of addition ( something like +1 per 3 turns or so) so if we want to use it within the next few centuries starting sooner instead of burning 5 turns on chain research seems a poor choice. Also given the benefits of finishing off Odd place research finding more places of the Odd and also finishing off our double mat that we just gained seems like a better use of actions.

As it is for chain right now I would not want to go beyond gromil chain, adamant has too many demands on it and achieving T5 gromil is not worth delaying.
 
Void Stalker said:
Given the change to how favor increases standing and that at least for locations standing 7 gives a bonus I would rather not spend Brotherhood favor and instead try and save up for standing 7 and whatever bonus that brings.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Do you have a plan on how we could acquire the 565 additional favour we would need to rank up to standing 7 with the brotherhood? Spending favour researching chain or next tier adamant is almost certain to be a quicker way there than hoarding it. Hoarding favour to increase standing is only really viable at lower levels or if we have a good farmable source of it.
 
Void Stalker said:
Given the change to how favor increases standing and that at least for locations standing 7 gives a bonus I would rather not spend Brotherhood favor and instead try and save up for standing 7 and whatever bonus that brings.

Also not a fan of going down chain so much as that is continuing to ignore the main line rune metal which if anything like adamant will have a very slow rate of addition ( something like +1 per 3 turns or so) so if we want to use it within the next few centuries starting sooner instead of burning 5 turns on chain research seems a poor choice. Also given the benefits of finishing off Odd place research finding more places of the Odd and also finishing off our double mat that we just gained seems like a better use of actions.

As it is for chain right now I would not want to go beyond gromil chain, adamant has too many demands on it and achieving T5 gromil is not worth delaying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't want to go beyond Gromril chain either. Standing 7 will take 565 more favor, and is thus completely impractical to try and save up for when you balance that against the 70 to 140 progress we could get out of that favor depending on what we spend it on. Given how favor opportunities being thin on the ground getting to that point would take centuries and the standing 7 bonus would have to pay for all of that and I'm very skeptical that it can do that. We are far more likely to get a commission that gives a standing boost than we are enough favor in that time period.

The faster way to get through primary Rune Metal is to spend the favor and hope for a standing boost commission, that way we get the benefit of both favor and the standing bonus faster.
 
Jreengus said:
Do you have a plan on how we could acquire the 565 additional favour we would need to rank up to standing 7 with the brotherhood? Spending favour researching chain or next tier adamant is almost certain to be a quicker way there than hoarding it. Hoarding favour to increase standing is only really viable at lower levels or if we have a good farmable source of it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I just don't see that we'd increase our Brootherhood standing with a project if we spend Brother favour to finish it.
 
Alratan said:
I just don't see that we'd increase our Brootherhood standing with a project if we spend Brother favour to finish it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's not what they're talking about. It is entirely likely we won't gain brotherhood favor at all, until we can rune trade the knowledge out, and if we get a commission that gives us standing from them we will get standing from them regardless of what we expend on it.

The idea that we can get enough favor to increase our standing from a single brotherhood project is absurd.
 
Last edited:
Alratan said:
I just don't see that we'd increase our Brootherhood standing with a project if we spend Brother favour to finish it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Even if we spend maximum favour on 1b the brotherhood will help us get 5/8ths of the way through the easiest step of an incredibly difficult task, a lot depends on how Soulcake writes it but it's hard to imagine a way he could write it where us spending 50 favour somehow invalidates the achievement of Snorri figuring out the chain/next tier adamant. Both require at least 1 Snorri action so even if we bought them almost entirely with favour it would still be Snorri pulling together a lot of info from brotherhood members to achieve something incredible none of them managed to.
 
Jreengus said:
Do you have a plan on how we could acquire the 565 additional favour we would need to rank up to standing 7 with the brotherhood? Spending favour researching chain or next tier adamant is almost certain to be a quicker way there than hoarding it. Hoarding favour to increase standing is only really viable at lower levels or if we have a good farmable source of it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
BungieONI said:
I don't want to go beyond Gromril chain either. Standing 7 will take 565 more favor, and is thus completely impractical to try and save up for when you balance that against the 70 to 140 progress we could get out of that favor depending on what we spend it on. Given how favor opportunities being thin on the ground getting to that point would take centuries and the standing 7 bonus would have to pay for all of that and I'm very skeptical that it can do that. We are far more likely to get a commission that gives a standing boost than we are enough favor in that time period.

The faster way to get through primary Rune Metal is to spend the favor and hope for a standing boost commission, that way we get the benefit of both favor and the standing bonus faster.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Rune Metal pt 5/6 if we do it without Brotherhood aid is going to be a big favor more so if we figure out a decent means of production for them. The knowledge of how to convert Adamant into T5 Gromil is going to be a big boost along with making the equivalent of an adamant smelter. Favor has been thin for brotherhood mainly because after the adamant smelter we have ignored rune metal research with the only brotherhood research being from doing the odd wyrm blood. As it is a commission for the brotherhood is likely only going to be if we can set up a T5 smelter as the only other commission we had from them was for the Adamant smelter. Otherwise they can do runic work themselves, in which case the main rune metal line is the one we need to progress down if we want to increase standing.

Not the least to know if there is any side research we may have to do for the main line.

There is also 0 zero reason to spend favor on 1b given that we can finish that off with 3 actions on our own and it would be best to finish up the Odd places and associated material research, we have Journeyman trait for those, that means there is a Master trait lurking somewhere and getting that is going to improve the speed at which we finish the various rune metal and other research. More so spending favor on rune metal chain is a straight 1 progress compared to the 1d2 for main line rune metal making it a worse option.

As it is with your assumptions on actions to finish 4b above improving our Odd trait has dropped 3 of our actions, savings go up if number of total actions is higher, if getting the next/final Odd trait has a similar improvement than we are looking at even more saved time and that is assuming we find no Odd materials that provide rune metal progress or progress into side projects we need to advance past certain parts of the rune metal chain.
 
We don't even know what would unlock higher tiers of Rune Metal research. For all we know something like learning Eltharin or Alchemy is key to understanding the impurities as there seems to be an implication that they're Wind based.

Not to mention things like the very radical and possibly longer term option of things like buying magic items from the elves that give mental buffs.
 
Last edited:
Could making gromril chain be the link we need to understand how to order the magic in materials?

Gromril chain having something to do with magic somehow would certainly justify the fact that nobody else really knows how such a thing is possible despite I assume many dwarf hours spent on the endeavor.
 
Void Stalker said:
Rune Metal pt 5/6 if we do it without Brotherhood aid is going to be a big favor more so if we figure out a decent means of production for them. The knowledge of how to convert Adamant into T5 Gromil is going to be a big boost along with making the equivalent of an adamant smelter. Favor has been thin for brotherhood mainly because after the adamant smelter we have ignored rune metal research with the only brotherhood research being from doing the odd wyrm blood. As it is a commission for the brotherhood is likely only going to be if we can set up a T5 smelter as the only other commission we had from them was for the Adamant smelter. Otherwise they can do runic work themselves, in which case the main rune metal line is the one we need to progress down if we want to increase standing.

Not the least to know if there is any side research we may have to do for the main line.

There is also 0 zero reason to spend favor on 1b given that we can finish that off with 3 actions on our own and it would be best to finish up the Odd places and associated material research, we have Journeyman trait for those, that means there is a Master trait lurking somewhere and getting that is going to improve the speed at which we finish the various rune metal and other research. More so spending favor on rune metal chain is a straight 1 progress compared to the 1d2 for main line rune metal making it a worse option.

As it is with your assumptions on actions to finish 4b above improving our Odd trait has dropped 3 of our actions, savings go up if number of total actions is higher, if getting the next/final Odd trait has a similar improvement than we are looking at even more saved time and that is assuming we find no Odd materials that provide rune metal progress or progress into side projects we need to advance past certain parts of the rune metal chain.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
While I agree that the next level of adamant is likely to grant more standing with the Brotherhood I favour the researching chain first, partly because it is likely to give standing with every dwarf who hears about it, not just gromril obsessed runelords, and partly because I want to get it done for the Valaya comission as I think that would be both beneficial mechanically and narratively interesting. The main reason for spending favour on 1b is to increase the chance we can have the chain ready in time for the Valaya order, it may not be possible to spend favour after 1b since we ae likely to be charting untested territory outside the brotherhoods knowledge hence the desire to spend now, it's a gamble yes.

The Valaya commission is also the main reason to do the chain before the Odd places, if it becomes obvious we can't do the chain in time I absolutely favour finishing off Odd Places before or alongside the chain.

Alratan said:
We don't even know what would unlock higher tiers of Rune Metal research. For all we know something like learning Eltharin or Alchemy is key to understanding the impurities as there seems to be an implication that they're Wind based.

Not to mention things like the very radical and possibly longer term option of things like buying magic items from the elves that give mental buffs.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm pretty certain if something is gating gromril research Soulcake will let us know like he did with the prismatic dragon blood.
 
Last edited:
Jreengus said:
While I agree that the next level of adamant is likely to grant more standing with the Brotherhood I favour the researching chain first, partly because it is likely to give standing with every dwarf who hears about it, not just gromril obsessed runelords, and partly because I want to get it done for the Valaya comission as I think that would be both beneficial mechanically and narratively interesting. The main reason for spending favour on 1b is to increase the chance we can have the chain ready in time for the Valaya order, it may not be possible to spend favour after 1b since we ae likely to be charting untested territory outside the brotherhoods knowledge hence the desire to spend now, it's a gamble yes.

The Valaya commission is also the main reason to do the chain before the Odd places, if it becomes obvious we can't do the chain in time I absolutely favour finishing off Odd Places before or alongside the chain.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We can still favor spend on Rune metal pt 5 even though that is beyond what the Brotherhood has done. As for the Valaya commission would we not want the Master Rune of Valaya done for that?

I still think it is a mistake to keep on putting off the main line of rune metal as we know from adamant we take time to get more of it and the T5 version is going to be slower than adamant in terms of accumulation. If we have any hope of using it in major projects we need to start in on it and soon.
 
Honestly people. There's something more important than commissions and research.

Namely, whether or not we get a wholesome interlude of Dwarf!Santa and his Brana visiting the entire north during the holidays. 🎅
 
Last edited:
Void Stalker said:
We can still favor spend on Rune metal pt 5 even though that is beyond what the Brotherhood has done. As for the Valaya commission would we not want the Master Rune of Valaya done for that?

I still think it is a mistake to keep on putting off the main line of rune metal as we know from adamant we take time to get more of it and the T5 version is going to be slower than adamant in terms of accumulation. If we have any hope of using it in major projects we need to start in on it and soon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We already have Mvalaya for armour, we can't rune 40 suits with the same master rune though. If you're referring to the basket it's a potential backup if the chain proves itself untenable but while it's highly unlikely anything we learn from it would have the same impact as presenting a suit of armour including gromril chain.

For the next level metal I don't expect us to ever acquire it in large quantities. I feel like it would devalue it if we could just pump out infinite amounts like we do with adamant so I'm expecting it to have some kind of cost associated. As such I don't expect researching it earlier to give us more just access to it quicker. I don't have any evidence for this beyond that's how I'd do it though so 🤷‍♀️.
 
Jreengus said:
I'm pretty certain if something is gating gromril research Soulcake will let us know like he did with the prismatic dragon blood.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I expect that the next tier of Runemetal research will tell us what we don't know, and that we may well then have to find something to unlock Runemetal VI, whether that's understanding the Master Rune of Purification, understanding the Winds more, learning Alchemy, compressing the Adamant Maker combo (which we really should do at some point), or whatever.
 
soulcake said:
OOC. From a gameplay perspective, it isn't fun to worry over this stuff, at least not without a lot of work on the QMs part in my opinion. And as a first-time QM trying to make such a rule fun when everything else is sorta there makes it tough. :^)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not to gate keep but after nearly a year, 1000+pages and 410k words in story updates, I don't think you get to use the first time QM label, even if its technically true :p
TimEd said:
Hmmm. Thoughts on the Gimli commision.

Due to the discussion regarding the gromril chain, I am assuming that people plan to get that before the commision right?

So what if we give Gimli a straight up gromril chainmail? "Just" the chainmail. We don't rune anything else, nothing. Give Gimli a showcase of a skill said to only be possible by the Ancestors.

This of course is assuming that we could even do this at all. But if we could, it would be the most awesome and most understated (I assume not everyone will realize it is gromril at first) mike drop we could do for the future king.

(I really doubt we'd be able to churn out enough gromril chain to outfit both Gazul and Valaya's cults)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In universe it would be valid, however from a quest perspective it would be pretty boring, and Snorri will upgrade the armours he made for others with Gromril Chain so theres actually nothing done.
 
I think the odds are pretty good that either a bar or t5 rune metal or a piece of chain will bump standing with the brotherhood just because it's such a unique feat.

Also, we're probably going to get a step where Snorri brute forces a single bit of chain which is where we could also stop if needed. With the Joruneyman of the odd upgrade, cross research progress is really good and I bet anything related to mat sci or alchemy is going to have a good chance of bumping rune metal as we go.
 
If we are so concerned about choosing between studying the process of making gromril chain mail or making the next legendary metal why don't we focus on an action that might help us make progress in both? It's been shown time and time again that the deep magic has an intrinsic connection with metal. Similar to how the other research actions reduced one another's cost what if we finish deep magic first then jump into one of the other options instead of just going for one or the other right now?
 
I'm not sure we've seen any evidence that deep magic and rune metal are connected.

We've seen evidence that rune metal is connected to alchemy, i.e. the transformation of physical matter that absorbs the Winds of Magic, which is a strong reason to investigate alchemy and learn Eltharin, but I think that's it.

Given gromril falls from the sky, it being connected to the magic of the deep earth seems pretty unlikely.

There's a connection because they're both types of magic, but that seems about it.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if we can guess what extra research gains we get from the mat sci. Looking at the turn results, it looks like silver wutroth is what gave us the rune metal progress. The liquid sounds connected to MPurification so we might get more rune metal progress out of it from finishing it next turn though it'll probably be main branch. The new gems seem more like they'd be like the hearthstones so we'd probably be better off rolling odd places again.
 
Fabled Ranger said:
If we are so concerned about choosing between studying the process of making gromril chain mail or making the next legendary metal why don't we focus on an action that might help us make progress in both? It's been shown time and time again that the deep magic has an intrinsic connection with metal. Similar to how the other research actions reduced one another's cost what if we finish deep magic first then jump into one of the other options instead of just going for one or the other right now?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My main objection to looking further into deep magic at this point are Yorri prods. They give us 1d2 +1 progress on Mind/Movement of things, which adds up to quite a lot. The problem is that Yorris knowledge has limits, if we push our research too far we can no longer put prods into it. We have already seen this with Secret of Light and Diction Direction.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top