- Location
- Tarn-Vedra
[x] Plan Guardian
Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]
- Thread starter Xantalos
- Start date
- Sci-Fi Fantasy
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
Just something I think people may not have noted: Plan Guardian is the only plan that assigns no Slann to directly supporting our armies or to controlling Thunder Lizards or the Quango. Admittedly, it does assign some more Slann to spawning more lizardmen than the other plans do, but ultimately, it is only around 300 thousand more Saurus in the army than the other plans (although it commits a lot more skinks and kroxigors, they aren't our primary fighters, Saurus are). I am not sure the bigger army it has outweighs the sheer magical might that the Slann provide in other plans.
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Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
I'm apparently just unable to add numbers together - I'll remove that note in the post, heheh.
Any errors I made regarding what level the cities would be should be attributed to me not remembering my own systems (again). All those changes I'll note and make some edits.
Ah, alright.
You can do this, yes! And lemme see... yeah no, that's about it in Enigmas. Closest thing to it would be VEIST, but that still counts as Technology.
Ah, cool! I'll make some edits to me post.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Given that I was denying "[hoping] to deal with orks in one turn without Mag 3 ritual," you are misinterpreting my words to an extent that makes me you're actively cherrypicking to mine for quotes that discredit.
...
My first quote was "Personally I favor dealing with them after not that many more waves of research projects- say, 2-3 turns into the future, when we've broken the ork invasion pretty thoroughly and have, maybe, taken time to do basic soul research ..."
Firstly, I believe at the time that I was under the delusion that basic soul research cost 1000 points, but that's irrelevant. More to the point, I'm envisioning breaking, not exterminating the ork force. That is to say, reducing them to a threat level that can be contained without full maximum-effort pressure from our entire civilization. Without an exact measure of their strength or of our own actions on Turn 10, it would be impossible to determine whether that would take one turn or two. At the time I couldn't even predict whether we'd decide to use a Mag 3 or not! I don't get to write all the plans!
The word 'maybe' should reasonably be interpreted as 'optimistically we may be in a position to complete basic soul research and start work on a counter-Ayacmanik project if fighting the orks goes well, or not if it goes poorly.' Right now we very much could choose to start a counter-Ayacmanik project! We'd just have to accept a few undesirable things like 'no artillery this turn' and 'probably little or no kaiju support for the armies.' There are good reasons not to want that, but we know that now based on experience with the orks' artillery and small arms performance against our body armor, the lethality of which we could not gauge in advance.
I would argue that I was expressing a range of possibilities that included the outcome we've actually experienced.
...
My second quote is "[the stone] Next turn. Too big a project to tackle without significantly impairing our ability to fight the orks." Firstly, this should be interpreted in the context of me saying "let's not do the stone NOW, we may be able to do it next turn. Secondly, we could.
No, I'm serious. Here's how I'd do it. Scrap the geomantic rituals and much of the "control kaiju" slannpower budget, saving us roughly, oh... 300-350 slannpower. This would effectively entail dropping our plans for a limited counter-offensive, but that's OK. Mazdamundi, working on the Stone, gives us a +10% to research, so we only need about 410 slannpower. I'd shave back our respawn efforts and the number of slann sent out directly to back up the field armies, and we could squeeze it in. We'd just need to go on the defensive in the coming war turn instead of marching out to take further land from the orks. Now, I don't think that's a good idea, but we could totally do it. It might synergize well with a strategy that put more city actions on defensive preparations, admittedly probably accepting that we wouldn't hit a Mag 3 geomantic web until Turn 14 at the earliest.
...
Outside of that, I have CONSISTENTLY argued for a piecemeal strategy against the orks precisely because I was conscious of their great numbers and firepower making it impractical to just casually blitz them out of the way in a single turn. Recall my opposition to strategies that I felt would leave our armies overextended or vulnerable, such as circling around to hit the orks from the east and west at the same time.
A more detailed review of my posting history will find multiple references to my expectation that this would take multiple war turns.
I think this may be learning the wrong lesson. Killing warbosses didn't work once the orks (thanks mostly to Orkfred Nobel who was on the northern continent at the time) hit the industrial age, because the orks weren't under enough external pressure. Without external pressure, there's nothing to 'punish' the orks for fighting among themselves, so they do as you describe: spore harder and tech up.
But with us here and actively dropping Mag 2 rituals on their heads and siccing Thunder Lizards on them while the Ayacmanik roll back the border territories this disrupted... The calculation is a bit different. They stand to lose territory and numbers due to a lack of cohesion (for instance, even hurting Thunder Lizards almost certainly involves a lot of coordination of resources and orkpower on their part).
I will also point out that my plan isn't specifically calculated to ensure that the orks are put under a single warboss; were that the case I'd either leave Gardakka alone and go after Urdgob entirely, or vice versa. Gardakka will probably survive my plan, but if an F5 tornado picks him up and spatters him a few miles away, I for one will not complain.
One good piece of news is that the Ayacmanik are actually very well suited to clear ork spawning grounds. They have lots of little critters that can go after the spores, and they compete with the ork ecosystem instead of just trying to burn it back like we do. If you look at the map, the Ayacmanik actually made some headway against Urdgob this turn, probably by exploiting the disruption caused by our arrival and by the Thunder Lizards.
I mean.
Do you have any ideas you'd like to throw in? Salt aside, I'm still interested in what you think.
Yes and no. It's listed in the "War Plan" part of the plan, but not the "Military slannpower" part. I'll be doing another editing pass tonight anyway, though.
My own plan to address this is to kick the guts out of Gardakka's territory and attack and take part of it with a limited offensive, weakening him. If Urdgob were left alive, there'd be a good chance of him quickly overcoming Gardakka and uniting the orks, but if Urdgob is dead, Gardakka will be weakened and in a bad position to unite the orks himsef- he may even be dead, since we know geomantic rituals CAN kill warbosses now.
I'd support this strategy if I wanted to pursue a full-on offensive rather than just tanking the ork counterattack and launching a limited counter-counterattack of our own. As it is, I want to hold off on a full offensive until we have the new machine guns and mortars fully rolled out to our military.
Eh. I'm already planning to trash Gardakka's territory heavily. He'll be trying to unite the orks while operating with a greatly diminished force that's under attack from literally all sides. Even if he manages it, it's not gonna be easy for him, and the combined ork forces will still be relatively weak.
Also, assassinating Gardakka without wrapping up his forces isn't going to magically make his artillery go away. Urdgob has artillery of his own and will happily make use of Gardakka's gunners. I'm planning to devastate Gardakka's factory towns and take a significant chunk of his land and gunners this turn.
Uh... okay? I'm actually fine with that tweak; I actually threw in ulgu because I thought you wanted it in the first place, man.
I was planning to squeeze that in on another editing pass.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Alright, the last edits are made to the plan and it's now officially done for good.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
Effectively, yeah. They're like Solar Engines in that they're more powerful but also rarer in areas of lower geomantic concentration. So for the moment, Monument Cannons will be more common, but Tempest Prisms can basically make a significant area of sky pretty much denied for enemy fliers.
CuttleFish2.0
Friendly neighborhood cuttlefish
- Location
- Seattle, Washington.
We researched the Shields last turn and I don't think there was any particular lack. But, just to confirm, @Xantalos; if we research the mortars and rapid-fire weapons (and other such direct equipment upgrades) this turn at what level of commitment of forces would we need to be concerned about not having them sufficiently available (2 million Lizardmen? 1 million? 500k? 3 million? 4 million?), if at all?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm pretty sure we didn't have enough to go around; some of our units were caught out in the open by the artillery, and this was happening enough to get called out in the narration in the war turn posts.
EDITS TO FINAL PASS OF THIS PLAN
1) Squeezed in Moving Bunkers.
2) Switched ulgu priests to aqshy by popular demand.
3) Explicitly numbered the legions, factoring in the spawned replacements as part of the relevant legions.
4) Slightly rearranged to separate 'war mobilization' and 'war plan.'
As noted, this plan includes some deliberate scene fodder, as @Xantalos mentioned. Want to see a shyish slann help us get the God of Death? Want to see Godzillas trash an ork port city? This is your plan!
...
[X] Plan Oh No There Goes Deffkloud
-[] Slannpower Research Actions (775 slannpower)
--[] Thunder from Stone (1 3rd Spawning slann, 5 4th Spawning slann)
--[] Blowpipe Mk II (1 3rd Spawning slann, 5 4th Spawning slann)
--[] Monument Cannons (1 3rd Spawning slann, 25 5th Spawning slann)
--[] Omen-class Mortar (12 3rd Spawning slann, 20 4th Spawning slann, 50 5th Spawning slann)
--[] Aqshy priests (5 3rd Spawning slann, 5 4th Spawning slann)
--[] Geomantic Enchantments (5 4th Spawning slann)
--[] Moving Bunkers (3 4th Spawning slann, 10 5th Spawning slann)
-[] Slannpower Military Actions (787 slannpower)
--[] Magnitude 2 Ritual, followed by Magnitude 1 ritual (Mazdamundi + 10 4th Spawning slann)
--[] Spawn lizardmen, as discussed, to replace casualties (5 3rd Spawning slann, 20 4th spawning slann, 15 5th spawning slann)
--[] Control the Quango and 8 Thunder Lizards (22 4th Spawning slann, 70 5th Spawning slann)
--[] Heal the injured Thunder Lizard (2 4th Spawning slann, )
--[] Reconnaissance of ork territory (2 4th Spawning slann, 10 5th Spawning slann)
---[] Half these slann on scouting targets for the Mag 2 ritual
---[] Half these slann on general reconnaissance, particularly of the ork field armies threatening to hit our defense
--[] Extra direct support of the field armies (5 4th Spawning slann, 102 5th Spawning slann, allocation to be determined in war turns)
-[] Lizardpower Military Actions (total 9 city actions)
--[] Assassinate Urdgob (1 Itza action)
--[] Invoke the Serpent (1 Qotlpetl action)
---[] Support 'Break the Tide'
--[] Sweep for Spores (1 Hexoatl action, 1 Qotlpetl action)
--[] Prepare the Ground (1 action each from Itza, Xlanhuapec, Hexoatl)
--[] Break the Tide (Teninhuan, 1 action each from Tlaxtlan and Xlanhuapec)
---[] Legion of Itza under Teninhuan reinforces the south
---[] Legions of Tlaxtlan and Xlanhuapec reinforce the north
--[] Scatter the Barbarians (Kroq-Gar, Legion of Hexoatl)
---[] Plans for a counterattack to seize land from Gardakka after the Mag 2 and Thunder Lizards soften him up. Optionally followed up on by the defensive legions if situationally appropriate and feasible.
-[] Lizardpower Stewardship Actions (total 13 + Awanabil'tat + 1 slannpower)
--[] Spread Ayotzl's Cult (Krom'tli, 1 Fifth Spawning slann good at shyish, it'll make a good story and costs practically nothing)
--[] Build cities (remaining 13 city actions + Awanabil'tat)
---[] Build two Mag 2 cities in the captured territory: the City of Lava/Fire and the City of Strength (5 city actions and Awanabil'tat)
---[] Build four Mag 1 cities in the backfield, away from ork territory (2 city actions each)
-[] War Mobilization
--[] Mobilize a bunch of leftover slann from the plans above.
--[] Mobilize legions from the Big Four cities, as outlined above. Exact numbers (factoring in spawned replacements)
---[] Legion of Itza (Teninhuan): 1,150,000 saurus, 800,000 skinks, 100,000 kroxigor
---[] Legion of Hexoatl (Kroq-Gar): 700,000 saurus, 500,000 skinks, 80,000 kroxigor
---[] Legion of Xlanhuapec (joining Chak'ax): 500,000 saurus, 350,000 skinks, 40,000 kroxigor
---[] Legion of Tlaxtlan (leadership ???, see war turn): 550,000 saurus, 350,000 skinks, 40,000 kroxigor
-[] War Plan (outline)
--[] Hit Gardakka with a Mag 2 ritual, scouring his inland territory with swarms of F5 tornadoes to cause mass havoc and ruination.
---[] Save a Mag 1 ritual for later in the campaign against a target of opportunity, as was done last time.
---[] Mazdamundi works with his 10 Fourth Spawning apprentices, so they can take over future ritual duties.
--[] Mobilize a bunch of Thunder Lizards and wreck Gardakka's coast
--[] Have Kroq-Gar and the Legion of Hexoatl go on a limited offensive to clear and hold the chunks of Gardakka's coast ("Scatter the Barbarians") that are pretty well wiped out by the Mag 2 and the Thunder Lizards.
--[] The other three legions will reinforce the line of the Kanyon, as discussed above.
--[] Have the Quango zap any particularly successful-looking ork offensives that manage to push forward along the line of the Kanyon
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
@notanautomaton I think your numbers for how many lizardmen the Slann spawn are wrong.
According to my calculation, you have 310 Slann Power dedicated to spawning lizardmen, which should be enough to spawn 620,000 Saurus, 1,240,000 Skinks, and 124,000 Kroxigors
Also, edited my plan to double the number of skinks and kroxigors (Ratio of 5:5:1 of Saurus:Skinks:Kroxigor)
According to my calculation, you have 310 Slann Power dedicated to spawning lizardmen, which should be enough to spawn 620,000 Saurus, 1,240,000 Skinks, and 124,000 Kroxigors
Also, edited my plan to double the number of skinks and kroxigors (Ratio of 5:5:1 of Saurus:Skinks:Kroxigor)
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
You'll be okay regardless of your force deployment, especially if you wait for a ritual to fire before you march - the other cities can make up the slack for those cities that are busy doing war stuff.
That wasn't so much due to lack of availability so much as because your shields are projected through Arcane Engines/Engines of the Gods, and those aren't yet common enough to be able to cover all your forces. Only way you can have proportionately more of those (aside from various miniaturization techs and whatnot that'll come later) is by having more power to go around, ie mag 3 web.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
My Brain: 7*25=150. The error has been fixed.
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Oh No There Goes Deffkloud
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
...how even - this has got to be because of all the temporary threadmarks I've deleted or something. Lemme just move that to where it should be real quick...
- Location
- Bristol N.H
[X] Plan Oh No There Goes Deffkloud
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Oh No There Goes Deffkloud
[X] Plan Oh No There Goes Deffkloud