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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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So, looking at the keywords on the art and then looking at the mechanics post in the first page:

Keywords:
-Connections, Wind, Music, Yang.
- Empathy, Presence, Perceptiveness, Manipulation, Music.

Mechanics:
Atributes:
Presence- The characters force of personality and personal magnetism. Used to determine the power of some spiritual attacks
Manipulation- The characters ability ability to talk others around and express themselves successfully. Used to determine the accuracy and ability to avoid some spiritual attacks

Skills:
Perceptiveness- Governs the characters basic eye for detail and attentiveness
Empathy- Governs the ability to determine the intent and emotions of others in social situations
{Max]Music- Governs the ability to express oneself through music in all of its forms
-[Advanced] Woodwind: Governs the ability to create and express music using woodwind instruments

Derived Atributes:
Combat Perception: measures the characters ability to pick up on details and keep track of multiple factors in combat, determined by Wits and Perceptiveness.
Social Perception: measures the characters ability to keep track of important factors in social situations. Determined by Manipulation and Empathy
Hit: The characters accuracy in combat, divided into physical and spiritual. Uses dexterity and an appropriate mastery for physical. Uses manipulation or wits plus mastery for spiritual
Penetration: How hard a characters attacks hit in combat, divided into physical and spiritual. Uses Strength and mastery for physical, and Intelligence or presence plus mastery for spiritual
Avoid: The characters ability to avoid attacks in combat, divided into physical and spiritual. Uses Dex and mastery for physical, and manipulation or wits for spiritual

It seems like the second line refers to words related to mechanics (atributes and skills that Ling Qi has) while the first line refers to the -medium? Elements? themes?- of the art. In that case, it might be more apropriate to replace Presence with Speech, since we don't have a Communication skill.
 
Aura said:
Do we have a Keyword list anywhere?
What precisely does presence mean?
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Aura said:
Also, would 'Communication' be a new keyowrd or just a form of expression?
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At the bottom of the most recent update, he lists the relevant key words for modding this art. Also the explanation for the keywords is on the tutorial post, front page: Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny) Original
Hit the tab "attributes" to learn about Presence.
And to answer your other question, Communication will be a new keyword.

EDIT: Also, this is a fairly low stakes experiment. We're doing it to figure out how art mods work and hopefully get the comm art out of it. However, if we screw it up and the art is unusable (which might happen), its not that big a deal because HDW has had limited utility and value for the entire time its been equipped. Its been fairly unsatisfactory as far as arts go, with only one tech that is really useful to us. The rest are redundant because we already have buff arts, screening techs and the rest. We got HDW from the archives as a placeholder, like most of our Sect archive arts. It was never an essential part of our build, never will be. We should treat this as a fun useful experiment and not sweat it too much, since we'll still learn what we need to learn even if we fail.
 
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[X] Plan Communication

yrsillar said:
Digging into the earth with a trowel, working together with Zhengui to stimulate the growth of the plants, working together on the other aspects of the project.
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I am now picturing Ling Qi with a trowel in hand. How would that look? Would she, through qi, dig deeper lines in the ground or cause some kind of fissure, because the earth is hard, not loose? Something for the creative side to think about.
yrsillar said:
Days later Ling Qi plucked crumbling grains of baked mud from her hair, and looked upon what they had wrought.

The whole hill was not on fire at least. The mudslide had extinguished most of it.
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It is difficult to picture LQ. the flying fairy of winter and death with mud in her hair. On the other hand Ling Qi knows already the first rule of cultivating a garden. It may not work out everything as you thought the first time around, but something interesting is bound to happen if you just look and see.
yrsillar said:
"I had fun though," Ling Qi said absently. She actually had, to her surprise. Composing Songs for Cai Renxiang's parties had always felt kind of perfunctory. Composing her own songs was more enjoyable but ultimately just idle fancy. This was more like cultivating. They had a concrete goal to work for, things they could improve. Visible progress to be made.
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Addendum: Trowel in hand, mud in her hair and a small smile adorning her face
That is very good, because it means many things. She can share her newfound love of gardening with many people and have something to talk about with 1)family/household servants, 2)CRX->Tea 3) Guests and new aquaintances. Ling Qi gardening frozen over soil like in this update
yrsillar said:
"You're such an old lady Ling Qi," Sixiang huffed.
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Ling is truly staid. :coolbeans:
 
I don't think we can manage it with this particular Art, but we really should look into an Art for digesting otherwise-toxic qi. So that our Qi absorption techniques aren't hindered by virulent Qi like underground or from the stars.

If we're REALLY lucky it might even slot into our Domain enough that centuries down the road Ling Qi doesn't need to worry about visiting CRX's underground vassals
yrsillar said:
Thankfully even ordering a few more more expensive packets of seeds, gardening supplies were not too expensive.

-45 Red Stones
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She says, after spending enough to feed a peasant family for years on end
 
Bakkasama said:
So, looking at the keywords on the art and then looking at the mechanics post in the first page:

Keywords:
-Connections, Wind, Music, Yang.
- Empathy, Presence, Perceptiveness, Manipulation, Music.

Mechanics:
Atributes:
Presence- The characters force of personality and personal magnetism. Used to determine the power of some spiritual attacks
Manipulation- The characters ability ability to talk others around and express themselves successfully. Used to determine the accuracy and ability to avoid some spiritual attacks

Skills:
Perceptiveness- Governs the characters basic eye for detail and attentiveness
Empathy- Governs the ability to determine the intent and emotions of others in social situations
{Max]Music- Governs the ability to express oneself through music in all of its forms
-[Advanced] Woodwind: Governs the ability to create and express music using woodwind instruments

Derived Atributes:
Combat Perception: measures the characters ability to pick up on details and keep track of multiple factors in combat, determined by Wits and Perceptiveness.
Social Perception: measures the characters ability to keep track of important factors in social situations. Determined by Manipulation and Empathy
Hit: The characters accuracy in combat, divided into physical and spiritual. Uses dexterity and an appropriate mastery for physical. Uses manipulation or wits plus mastery for spiritual
Penetration: How hard a characters attacks hit in combat, divided into physical and spiritual. Uses Strength and mastery for physical, and Intelligence or presence plus mastery for spiritual
Avoid: The characters ability to avoid attacks in combat, divided into physical and spiritual. Uses Dex and mastery for physical, and manipulation or wits for spiritual

It seems like the second line refers to words related to mechanics (atributes and skills that Ling Qi has) while the first line refers to the -medium? Elements? themes?- of the art. In that case, it might be more apropriate to replace Presence with Speech, since we don't have a Communication skill.
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It's a good concern, and we asked about it months ago when the idea of modding communication into HDW came up: communication is a theme keyword, and the only theme keyword HDW has is connection. Yrs said it was fine and we didn't need to replace within the same category of keyword.
 
picklepikkl said:
Look on the first page, in the tutorial threadmark. It's a stat used for social. The primary function of stat keywords in arts is to determine what stats get bonuses to being trained in the same turn you cultivate an art. Other keywords are elements (like wind and music) or just themes, like connections and communication.

[X] Plan Communication
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It's a bit more involved than that, the keywords kinda don't reflect the entirely of an art's elements and themes since yrs has limited attention to spare to getting details like this exactly right. Even the current separation of keywords on 2 lines is basically formatting for legibility but isn't much more than guesswork.

This situation has an unfortunate interaction with the available art modding via keyword replacement since the few keywords that are present tend to be either so fundamental that removal would likely break the art, or likely responsible for significant portions of an art we'd like to keep.

That said, we do have a fairly clear idea of what we're trying to accomplish here beyond the limited control the mechanics give us, which probably helps a lot compared to more aimless modding we could be doing. Plus, while the connection between the presence keyword and the support elements of the art is a guess, it should be a decent one

Bakkasama said:
So, looking at the keywords on the art and then looking at the mechanics post in the first page:

Keywords:
-Connections, Wind, Music, Yang.
- Empathy, Presence, Perceptiveness, Manipulation, Music.

Mechanics:
Atributes:
Presence- The characters force of personality and personal magnetism. Used to determine the power of some spiritual attacks
Manipulation- The characters ability ability to talk others around and express themselves successfully. Used to determine the accuracy and ability to avoid some spiritual attacks

Skills:
Perceptiveness- Governs the characters basic eye for detail and attentiveness
Empathy- Governs the ability to determine the intent and emotions of others in social situations
{Max]Music- Governs the ability to express oneself through music in all of its forms
-[Advanced] Woodwind: Governs the ability to create and express music using woodwind instruments

Derived Atributes:
Combat Perception: measures the characters ability to pick up on details and keep track of multiple factors in combat, determined by Wits and Perceptiveness.
Social Perception: measures the characters ability to keep track of important factors in social situations. Determined by Manipulation and Empathy
Hit: The characters accuracy in combat, divided into physical and spiritual. Uses dexterity and an appropriate mastery for physical. Uses manipulation or wits plus mastery for spiritual
Penetration: How hard a characters attacks hit in combat, divided into physical and spiritual. Uses Strength and mastery for physical, and Intelligence or presence plus mastery for spiritual
Avoid: The characters ability to avoid attacks in combat, divided into physical and spiritual. Uses Dex and mastery for physical, and manipulation or wits for spiritual

It seems like the second line refers to words related to mechanics (atributes and skills that Ling Qi has) while the first line refers to the -medium? Elements? themes?- of the art. In that case, it might be more apropriate to replace Presence with Speech, since we don't have a Communication skill.
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We can replace a stat keyword with an theme one, was asked in discord way before this point.
 
Black Noise said:
We can replace a stat keyword with an theme one, was asked in discord way before this point.
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Really, we *shouldn't* be able to, but that goes back to us really just having to work around the limitations of the keyword system here.

Straight keyword substitution works decently for stat/skill swaps, but really breaks down when it comes to theme application/adjustment.
 
[X] Plan Communication
-[X] Presence
-[X][new] Communications
 
Okay, I think this is probably a "use bold" scenario: I think removing Presence is a really bad idea!

In this case, I expect Presence is being used as the Art's "battery," in its capability of "determining the power of some spiritual attacks"; rather than being strictly limited to attacks, I expect it's about its strength of manifestation upon the world. If we remove Presence, what capability of Ling Qi's is empowering it to act upon the world? What part of her is fueling it? Music and Wind do not fuel, they are the medium through which the Art acts. The Art has to start somewhere before it becomes Wind and Music.

The point of this modification process is to remove the buffs to Ling Qi and others and replace it with communications, and Perceptiveness is a keyword in relationship to the old effect of allowing Ling Qi to sense others who hear the music. If we no longer want it to buff, then is the word useful? Sure, it might be useful for picking out targets to communicate to ("perceiving" them), but I'd think we can use Manipulation for that, because it governs "accuracy of some Spiritual Attacks."

[X] Plan Communication Conversion
-[X] Perceptiveness
-[X][new] Communications
 
yrsillar said:
Wolf God's Cunning: B
Duration: Short
The cunning Wolf God, lord of those beasts which hunt in number, he of the numberless wild hunt, was the second of the beast gods to engage the Diviner, and a less wise commander would have broken before the maneuvers of his pack. May only be used while Primal War Calling is active. On use summons a construct in the shape of an immense grey wolf within Close range. The wolf attacks with the users Spiritual and Physical Hit, reduced by one rank. It deals B rank damage on hit, and when damaging a target reduces their speed by one full rank.

The construct has C Rank health, and A rank Dodge of both types, as well as C rank armor of both types. It cannot be dispelled or suppressed. While active the phantoms summoned by primal war calling act with much greater intelligence, encircling, harrying and trapping foes. This causes the multiattacker attack bonuses of the user and any allies to be increased by 2 per combatant within range of the War Calling.
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So, this is the next level of Beast King's Savage Dirge. And, while a bit expensive, I really like it. The summon works well with our General's attendants in keeping it alive a little bit longer and can do some nice damage. Most interesting to me though is the increase in the multi-attacker attack bonuses. Primal War Call already counts as 2 combatants, so does PLR, and Zhengui counts as two combatants.

All this means that we have a lot of extra combatants when engaged in a fight, and with our domain adding another bonus to the multi-attacker attack bonus, we are setting up to give some really good buffs in hit and penetration when in a group fight. Which is nice since most of our support in a group fight is in the defensive aspect.
 
[X] Plan Communication
-[X] Presence
-[X][new] Communications
Still not sure Communications isn't just expression, but whatever.
 
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Anderein said:
Okay, I think this is probably a "use bold" scenario: I think removing Presence is a really bad idea!

In this case, I expect Presence is being used as the Art's "battery," in its capability of "determining the power of some spiritual attacks"; rather than being strictly limited to attacks, I expect it's about its strength of manifestation upon the world. If we remove Presence, what capability of Ling Qi's is empowering it to act upon the world? What part of her is fueling it? Music and Wind do not fuel, they are the medium through which the Art acts. The Art has to start somewhere before it becomes Wind and Music.

The point of this modification process is to remove the buffs to Ling Qi and others and replace it with communications, and Perceptiveness is a keyword in relationship to the old effect of allowing Ling Qi to sense others who hear the music. If we no longer want it to buff, then is the word useful? Sure, it might be useful for picking out targets to communicate to ("perceiving" them), but I'd think we can use Manipulation for that, because it governs "accuracy of some Spiritual Attacks."

[X] Plan Communication Conversion
-[X] Perceptiveness
-[X][new] Communications
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But we don't want substance for this Art. We want it to be an airy, breezy thing that is easy to overlook and which the wind can blow far from our presence. The perception technique is one of the few things that we want to keep but its substance has often been a problem for us, causing it to be easily noticed by those we are trying to discreetly perceive.

[X] Plan Communication
 
JohnnieBoy123 said:
But we don't want substance for this Art. We want it to be an airy, breezy thing that is easy to overlook and which the wind can blow far from our presence. The perception technique is one of the few things that we want to keep but its substance has often been a problem for us, causing it to be easily noticed by those we are trying to discreetly perceive.

[X] Plan Communication
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Do you think people are supposed to notice that Initiate's Viewing Pool or the Seeking Moon Eyes are observing them? And yet Intelligence is still its battery, because the Arts of Roaming Moon's Eye still have to exist within the world at range.

I'd rather not have the Art be so insubstantial that it falls apart, or that it ends up restricted to close distances. The second would almost be as bad as the first, because it'd render it useful only as a cooperative stealth mission walkie-talkie, and I'd rather it be better than that.
 
Anderein said:
The point of this modification process is to remove the buffs to Ling Qi and others and replace it with communications, and Perceptiveness is a keyword in relationship to the old effect of allowing Ling Qi to sense others who hear the music. If we no longer want it to buff, then is the word useful? Sure, it might be useful for picking out targets to communicate to ("perceiving" them), but I'd think we can use Manipulation for that, because it governs "accuracy of some Spiritual Attacks."
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The radar is the one thing we like and want to keep, and as perception in terms of being able to see/hear what the people we communicate with are saying/doing is key part of communication arts.
 
Anderein said:
Do you think people are supposed to notice that Initiate's Viewing Pool or the Seeking Moon Eyes are observing them? And yet Intelligence is still its battery, because the Arts of Roaming Moon's Eye still have to exist within the world at range.

I'd rather not have the Art be so insubstantial that it falls apart, or that it ends up restricted to close distances. The second would almost be as bad as the first, because it'd render it useful only as a cooperative stealth mission walkie-talkie, and I'd rather it be better than that.
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I mean personally, a stealth mission walkie-talkie is all I expected out of this escapade, and basically all I want. Keyword modding is a very bleh system and this is babies first art mod.
 
Anderein said:
Do you think people are supposed to notice that Initiate's Viewing Pool or the Seeking Moon Eyes are observing them? And yet Intelligence is still its battery, because the Arts of Roaming Moon's Eye still have to exist within the world at range.

I'd rather not have the Art be so insubstantial that it falls apart, or that it ends up restricted to close distances. The second would almost be as bad as the first, because it'd render it useful only as a cooperative stealth mission walkie-talkie, and I'd rather it be better than that.
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Intelligence isn't Presence. The whole point of Presence is to be the center of attention. And it won't fall apart, wind carries mortal words surprisingly far so why wouldn't an art based on that carry them far and wide? Which, when combined with the idea behind the perception technique, would allow us to carry on conversations from far away.
 
AbeoLogos said:
This is kind of an annoying copout, considering the playerbase was actively trying for a bit of overlap as recently as the last archive vote, which is the last time it was possible at all. And overwhelmingly so, at the opportunity. The tools that were being aimed for just didn't materialize during that process. Hopefully things come around a bit again as Ling Qi's perspective broadens with their project's development, as hinted by Sixiang.

I'm a little sour by missions trampling over Zhengui arcs, too. The underground mission seriously complicated/diverted the Wang training arc, and now the Ice Lady diplomacy mission is cutting our very explicitly time-committed gardening arc. And that's even before character developments/traumas from the mission itself come to affect the ability to just pick up the project again afterwards. Obviously it's not a sure thing, but the underground mission shows that sometimes loot isn't the only thing you gain from adventures: sometimes it's spanners in the works.

It's almost like if we had something like an art to cultivate together, it'd make our interactions significantly more resilient to outside interference and environmental conditions or something.
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I would have phrased it differently, but this was basically my reaction to the update. Many of us were trying for some sort of thematic link to Zhengui; we still might end up cultivating BGR, which is very on-brand for him; and while the bit we got in this update was certainly nice, I'd like to actually see Ling Qi and Zhengui collaborating for updates at a time (they way they did in the Wang arc), not just being told that it happened.

Hopefully when we get back from White Sky, we can have a longer stretch of content focusing on this collaborative project. Alternately, just having it be mentioned in the background of other updates would be nice, the way that yrs spent a few updates showing us "helping Qingge cultivate" and now just has Ling Qi think about it every now and then or mention it in background narration or casually in dialogue. That works too; I just want this project to have real narrative presence.
 
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