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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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I like this vote. Clear and concise, we know exactly what we're voting for.

I think I want Profit.
Culture would lead towards absorbing the White Sky and remaking their culture and blah blah imperialism bad.
Pragmatism treats them as enemies to set against each other, and wouldn't it be great if at the end of this all factions of barbarians are weakened enough for the empire to defeat them all?
Profit would actually care most about the well-being of the White Sky, because you can do more trade with a trading partner the more prosperous they are.
 
Erebeal said:
With Culture honestly just seeming weird to make as the main argument. Like, I wouldn't be opposed to Ling Qi having some sympathies there, and even playing to it later on, but it just seems weird to make as the primary argument to everyone else here.
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Actually, Culture makes sense if we want to establish Ling Qi as the "link to old traditions in CRX's retainers". It was a bit the plan before, and SSC is partly about unveiling old cultures and keeping them alive to boot. Ling Qi being known to respect the old traditions is actually a good way for some of the old clans that are wary about some of Shenhua's actions (like destroying the shrines to the dreaming moon in Xiangmen) to support CRX.
 
CalvinCopyright said:
MUCH better vote.

Please, those who have the patience to reread the story, who are these factions, again?
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I got you, fam.
yrsillar said:
Cai Renxiang's stern voice cut through all the noise though, as clear as day. "The six count clans of Emerald Sea. Minimum profile," the heiress stated tersely, some degree of strain showing from her control of so many vectors of light.

Ling Qi grimaced as a trailing leap and a midair spin carried her through a rapidly narrowing gap in the shifting grid of light, and her mind raced, putting together the answers to the question. "Meng clan, controls the western marshes. Staunch Weilu conservatives. Former ties with the Bai, backed Sun Shao. Neutral and distant at court. Isolanist"

The dance continued unabated as she strained to speak quickly and concisely, without allowing a single rapidly shifting light to touch her. "Wang and Jia, smallest clans, territories in the southern hills, between the Sects. Nominally Imperial conservatives. Mining interests. Elevated by the Duchess. Loyal and supportive at court. Pushing aggressive moves against the Cloud Tribes."

"Very good," Cai Renxiang hung overhead like a miniature star, tendrils of light snapping and crawling through the air behind her, the sleeves of her gown very slowly unraveling with the qi put into maintaining this regiment breaker of a technique.

Ling Qi lacked the time to acknowledge the praise, though some part of her noticed the movements of her phantoms growing smoother and more natural, the edges of the revel creeping outward with each step. She was coming closer to her goal. "Bao clan, wealthiest of the seven, controls the northern trade cities and the routes into Celestial peaks. Imperial conservatives. Mercantile inclinations, heavy production focus. Neutral at court. Opposes further military expansion in the south."

The lights began to move faster, and Ling Qi grimaced as she danced the steps of the Lunatic Festival faster than ever before to keep up. "Luo clan, keepers of the eastern marches. Ties to Golden Fields, on the rise due to recovery in neighbors and increased trade. Nominal Weilu conservatives. Did not support the Duchess, did not oppose, found loyal. Warrior clan, large presence in military. Aggressive in general."

"And the last?" Cai Renxiang asked from on high.

"Diao, rules a portion of the central region. Ambitious, but the Cai clans greatest supporters. Only count clan with active seventh realm cultivator. Young clan, heavy clashes with more conservative factions on various matters. Expansionist interests, aligned with Jia."
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Bao clan is obviously the clan of Qian, who is courting us. Diao clan is the clan of Shenhua's girlfriend, who already dislikes Renxiang. Wang clan is the clan of the guy we've been ordered to befriend.
 
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OneArmedYeti said:
I don't like Profit because of the negative hit on Wang, which are both the clan who we're currently landlocked by as well as the social link group we're trying to push.

I'm Military then culture for that reason.
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Wang possibly likes Ling Qi some since she's buddying up with his... son? Profit's advantages are that it gets some approval from Bao, who she's in a pseudo-courting with Qian, and Diao's approval might mean that Linqin advocates for Ling Qi's plan a bit more, especially given the pros of her being the head minister to Shenhua.
 
Arkeus said:
Actually, Culture makes sense if we want to establish Ling Qi as the "link to old traditions in CRX's retainers". It was a bit the plan before, and SSC is partly about unveiling old cultures and keeping them alive to boot. Ling Qi being known to respect the old traditions is actually a good way for some of the old clans that are wary about some of Shenhua's actions (like destroying the shrines to the dreaming moon in Xiangmen) to support CRX.
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So this convinced me to favor culture. It's a good argument, it get's to 1 Luo and honestly I like the dynamic of Linqin disliking us.
 
[] To appeal to military pragmatism. If their enemies were divided there was no need to unite them. (+Wang, +Jia approval, -Meng approval)
[X] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)

One of these 2
 
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Arkeus said:
Actually, Culture makes sense if we want to establish Ling Qi as the "link to old traditions in CRX's retainers". It was a bit the plan before, and SSC is partly about unveiling old cultures and keeping them alive to boot. Ling Qi being known to respect the old traditions is actually a good way for some of the old clans that are wary about some of Shenhua's actions (like destroying the shrines to the dreaming moon in Xiangmen) to support CRX.
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On one hand yes - otoh it feels like a weird time to be taking that tack?

If we weren't in the middle of a war then sure, but...
 
Hmmmm.... I'm not gonna choose Profit cause it's a detriment to appealing to one of our future potential neighbor, Wang. I....can be convinced on the culture argument cause it appeals to Luo, and it's an interesting angle to go on with appearing Meng as well. Military I'm probably gonna be the most inclined to choose

so

1) Military
2) Cuture
3) Profit

my rank on what I prefer
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmm! That is a very interesting vote.

Military basically shakes out like: Wang+, Jia+, Meng-, Diao neutral, Bao neutral, Luo neutral.

Wang are happy due to the stuff about fortresses and assimilating hill tribes they have going, Jia are happy because they are expansionist and possibly some other stuff but we don't know them well. I'm not sure why the Meng would be unhappy, we just don't know them very well, I think it might be because making an argument that paints Ling Qi like the Wang tars her in the eyes of the Meng.

Culture shakes out like: Meng+, Luo+, Diao -, Wang neutral, Bao neutral, Jia neutral.

Meng and Luo I think are happy due to their isolationist bends. I'm not sure why Diao would be unhappy there, I've forgotten the details of their alignment on isolationist/expansionist, Weilu/Imperial culture.

Profit of course is like: Bao+, Diao+, Wang-, Luo neutral, Meng neutral, Jia neutral.

Demonstrating the bit of the split between the Wang and Jia in terms of their opinions on things. Again, I'm not sure why the Diao like this over any other thing specifically. Maybe due to geographical placement in the center of the province making them a trade magnate?

Culture seems like an odd argument to make, if we want to come at it from a perspective of experience and solid knowledge. Profit or Military would be a better way to sell things I think, military in particular because we were there and heard specifically how they were speaking and got a good look at their dispositions.
 
Erebeal said:
On one hand yes - otoh it feels like a weird time to be taking that tack?

If we weren't in the middle of a war then sure, but...
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I mean, if Ling Qi want to take that tack, it's a great time to prove she is dedicated to it. First Xiangmen court attendance, when she as a lowly green is talking to all the clans? They will remember it.

Also, for those who don't remember it, here is the political map of the Emeral Sea:
 
Another facet of this vote is Cai Renxiang's instruction to make friends with Wang Chao. Positive approval with them will make such a task a bit easier while negative approval might make the task more challenging.

Interesting, though, is that there is no negative Bao option, only positive Bao option. Which I like, it would be a shame to have politics sour a friendly business relationship with Bao Qian.
 
Ultimately this vote feels like it is less about the success of the plan itself (these high level cultivators do not need us to explain to them the military, economic and political ramifications of what we're proposing, and we certainly won't convince them otherwise) and more to define what Ling Qi's image is at court and how the different players see her.
 
This is a tough one. We don't want to take a hit to Wang approval given that LQ is supposed to be befriending them. Taking a hit to Diao approval would be bad, as they're a big central influence.

This would seem to point to military as the best choice - however, the Meng are already acting out in opposition to the Cai Liberals a bit, and pushing them further away from the Cai could be very bad. Also LQ is sort-of supposed to be a link to the old ways, which the Meng are part of.

Another thing to keep in mind is Shenhua's reaction to each proposition. Military Pragmatism would appeal to her, and I could see Culture working as well - bringing order is the whole Cai thing and so bringing another faction into alignment with the Imperial order could appeal. Not sure about profit, that seems a little self-serving.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Another facet of this vote is Cai Renxiang's instruction to make friends with Wang Chao. Positive approval with them will make such a task a bit easier while negative approval might make the task more challenging.

Interesting, though, is that there is no negative Bao option, only positive Bao option. Which I like, it would be a shame to have politics sour a friendly business relationship with Bao Qian.
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Similarly there is also only positive and neutral Jia options and positive or neutral Luo options which is intriguing.
 
yrsillar said:
[] To appeal to military pragmatism. If their enemies were divided there was no need to unite them. (+Wang, +Jia approval, -Meng approval)
[] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)
[] To appeal to profit. If there is another force out there civilizing the southernmost tribes, perhaps there is gain to be had? (+Bao, +Diao approval, -Wang approval)
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hmm, Need to think about these long term also. Because we need to see them in a kind of potential long term stance also. The first one is a bit of a problem there as it paints the Ice Ladies as an enemy, just one that they dont need to fight yet.

The other two options potentially opens up some type of diplomatic ties, with the aim for them different.
 
When I saw that the last chapter was getting a rewrite, I'll admit I privately thought it was unneeded. Sure, the previous version was a clearly a transition chapter that wasn't particularly standout, but I didn't feel that was a bad thing after a few action chapters in a row.

This chapter proves me wrong. Not only does it still fill its role of transition chapter, but it manages to be interesting on its own merits at the same time. Not to mention this new vote is much more engaging/interesting than the previous one. Better all around.
 
Are the +/- their opinion of us or their support for the diplomatic action?
 
Going from the negatives; the profit angle kind of hurts CRX since it will probably undo all of Ling Qi's work with her little social circle with the fortress guy who was Wang clan.

The culture angle probably has the greatest chance of actually pissing off the Duchess, because her husband, and minister/lover are literally from the Diao clan. (Although CRX might actually like us for this, she sees to be ambivalent about the Diao).

Military pisses of Meng who is Sun/anti-Bai (I think?) but honestly I think they've barely been introduced at all.

Unless we wanted to make a big play to shift our social circles by burning some bridges and getting new acquaintances back at the sect, Military pragmatism (as far as Ling Qi's personal relationships go) appears to be the closest to a [] Status Quo type choice.
 
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Another thing to note is this spread of what we know about how others view us.

yrsillar said:
Emerald Seas Nobility: -2
-Luo Clan & Vassals: 0
--Imperial Conservatives (20%): -2
--Imperial Moderates (20%): -1
--Weilu Moderates (55%): 0
--Old Tribes (5%): 1
Wang Clan and Vassals: 1
--Imperial Moderates(40%): 0
--Imperial Conservatives (10%): -1
--Weilu Moderates (50%): 1
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And so we could also weigh into this vote how much we want to focus on shoring up general sensibilities about us or whether we want to focus on developing a more positive image with a few clans.
 
Thor's Twin said:
And so we could also weigh into this vote how much we want to focus on shoring up general sensibilities about us or whether we want to focus on developing a more positive image with a few clans.
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My impression is that first impression matter, and the reason what ling Qi says would change favorability is that depending on what she says, she'd be considered pro-military (possibly expansionist?), pro old traditions, or pro-trading.

So we shouldn't just look at the favourable impacts here, or the immediate argumentation, but also what kind of reputation we want Ling Qi to have.
 
BungieONI said:
Profit or Military would be a better way to sell things I think, military in particular because we were there and heard specifically how they were speaking and got a good look at their dispositions.
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More than that, actually. The context is that the sect is being attacked, the empire is being attacked by extension, the meeting was about an alliance, and the White Sky ambassador diplomanced with us instead of wantonly attacking. LQ might come out with something like this: "It might be possible to open diplomacy with the White Sky, preventing further burden on the military forces of the border, and I prevail upon my Duchess and the Xiangmen court, to consider whether such a course of action would be appropriate."

I'll be choosing the military option, I think.
 
[] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)
I'm wary of this variant. Ling Qi isn't really suited to sell culture angle, it's not her strong side and I think she wouldn't be able to really relate to this. Also Linqin is scaring me, I would rather avoid making her enemy.
Two other variants seems okay. But greed angle seems more in tune this Ling Qi and we can patch relations this Wang clan easier than with others. We know what they want - decisive actions against sky tribes.
 
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