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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Alright so we know some people from wang's group are here with us so that'd be Mouse Girl, Fan Girl, Guan Zhi, Moon Bro, CRX and her supporter that's leading south perimeter.
That's a lot of support for ice lady if she helps us and shelters the wounded Greens from the new big player showing up on top of the remaining cloud tribes and Shishigui.

Edit- and I believe the mission won't become public knowledge, we'd be getting all the points without even needing to divulge about the mission
Ergo ice lady would be under wraps
 
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[X] Tell her to leave for it isn't safe for her here, you can talk later.
[X] I am the Student of [Winter's Muse][Songstress of Endings], Feel free to join the performance how you see fit
 
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TehChron said:
I've been restating my arguments constantly

It's gotten pretty frustrating having to do so, in fact.

Moreover - while.the advice is appreciated - if youre just going to skim.the posts I'd prefer if you kept.the criticism.to yourself, since that implies to.me that you have no basis with which to do so
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Well, my basis is mostly just that it sets a really unpleasant tone for the thread to see entire posts full 95% of just personal attacks.
 
One thing that's worth pointing out is that it becomes easier for us to talk to and perhaps diplomatically entreat with the Ice Lady if she has a clear, undeniable instance of aiding with the imperials against a 'common foe'. It's nothing concrete, but much like Meizhen's friendship with CRX helped Shenhua negotiate with the Bai, it opens up options and avenues that might otherwise be closed to us.

She is clearly visiting as a diplomatic envoy, so this isn't idle speculation or outside of the realm of possibility. Shenhua is a pragmatic woman, and has history of negotiating with entities outside the empire (notably, Shishigui beneath the rootways of Xiangmen), so I doubt she'd disapprove of an effort to this effect.
 
I'll note that for all that we the readers are intercultural and curious about the nomads, Ling Qi has a clear allegiance in this war. Telling someone to get away when the mission was to capture them is... not the greatest decision she can possibly make. Outright flipping them, now...
 
[x] Tell her to help if she's so interested in you, you can talk later.
[x] Tell her to leave if she doesn't want to face the empire.
 
Liliet said:
Well, my basis is mostly just that it sets a really unpleasant tone for the thread to see entire posts full 95% of just personal attacks.
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That is not what is happening at all, if anything your post is the needless personal attack.

If you don't have an arguement that's fine but don't try paint someone in a negative light just because you find it easier than argueing against their points.
 
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[x] Tell her to leave if she doesn't want to face the empire

I believe that CRX can be convinced to negotiate with her later on, as is her right as the heir to the province. She doesn't need to see her fight for us, our word has value enough for that I feel. Our other Cyan is loyal to the Cai and won't gainsay her, while Liao Zhu understands that barbarians are people too with their own divisions.

Shenhua is hardly going to care about the propriety of negotiations with a supposed 'barbarian', especially since they're clearly distinct from regular Cloud Barbarians.

While if we ask her to help us and stick around, any stray hit from the Empire's side could ruin relations completely. Plus, her partner is considerably squishier than her and would be endangered by whatever escalation is about to happen. The benefit to potential negotiations would be marginal.

Overall, having her stick around is High risk, Low reward and I don't agree with it.
 
[X] Tell her to help if she's so interested in you, you can talk later.

The Ice Witch isn't ignorant of the situation, if it's in her interest to leave or remain she will but obviously there's something she deems more important than staying out of this. She spared Zhengui to stop us fighting and offered aid in protecting the Starstone because she wants something from us, and to bring us to the table she offers to prove her intentions.
yrsillar said:
The air rippled, and a wall of frost rose behind the woman, curving over their heads in a dome that met the Caldera wall, cutting them Zhengui and Hanyi… and Ling Qi noted conveniently, the other barbarians.
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She shows that she doesn't want the Cloud Nomads to see this but she is willing to help us somewhat to get our attention. This isn't a switching of alliances, it's an offered hand. Whatever her goal let her prove her good intentions and build some trust between us and then leave or remain by her own convenience. If nothing else she seems to think we could use the help.
 
[X] Tell her to help if she's so interested in you, you can talk later.

Varano said:
That is not what is happening at all, if anything your post is the needless personal attack.

If you don't have an arguement that's fine but don't try paint someone in a negative light just because you find it easier than argueing against their points.
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Just want to add in regards to painting others in a bad light:
As a thread-skimmer myself, my thoughts on the matter is probably less pertinent, but the tone in which TehChron's arguments were made was not constructive to the debate and he admitted to being frustrated by it.

I think the main point was to keep the discussion civil. And what Liliet was referring to was not the case, so their point stands.
 
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[X] Tell her to leave for it isn't safe for her here, you can talk later.
Liliet said:
I'll note that for all that we the readers are intercultural and curious about the nomads, Ling Qi has a clear allegiance in this war. Telling someone to get away when the mission was to capture them is... not the greatest decision she can possibly make. Outright flipping them, now...
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I'm not in favour of "tell them to leave", but we can perfectly well justify letting them go by saying, as is perfectly true, that they seem to be more dangerous then attempting their capture is worth. They pretty evidently are. The first objective is to survive, and capturing as many people as possible depends on not going for prey we can't catch and losing.
 
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Vikram said:
[x] Tell her to leave if she doesn't want to face the empire

I believe that CRX can be convinced to negotiate with her later on, as is her right as the heir to the province. She doesn't need to see her fight for us, our word has value enough for that I feel. Our other Cyan is loyal to the Cai and won't gainsay her, while Liao Zhu understands that barbarians are people too with their own divisions.

Shenhua is hardly going to care about the propriety of negotiations with a supposed 'barbarian', especially since they're clearly distinct from regular Cloud Barbarians.

While if we ask her to help us and stick around, any stray hit from the Empire's side could ruin relations completely. Plus, her partner is considerably squishier than her and would be endangered by whatever escalation is about to happen. The benefit to potential negotiations would be marginal.

Overall, having her stick around is High risk, Low reward and I don't agree with it.
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Note that the leading "don't' ask for help" vote is the similarly phrased:

[] Tell her to leave for it isn't safe for her here, you can talk later.

So you might want to approval that vote as well.
 
Varano said:
That is not what is happening at all, if anything your post is the needless personal attack.

If you don't have an arguement that's fine but don't try paint someone in a negative light just because you find it easier than argueing against their points.
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I'll note I wasn't arguing against their point? Unless they are arguing against asking for help, in which case I'd be happy to discuss that.

As long as it's that and not posts full of "are you stupid, arguing with you is like talking to a brick wall, and I'm going to fill a full screeen with saying that".
 
I'd also like to point out that if the Ice Lady helps here, in this fight, it establishes precedence, something incredibly important to diplomacy and lawmaking. A small action here (in the grand scheme of things) could go a long way later on.

If we were to entreat or enter negotiations with a foreign entity in a white room, the scales fall to the assumed neutral state - Pro-imperial, outsiders tarred with the sweeping brush of 'barbarian' with little regard for nuance. On the other hand, when going into negotiations with an entity that has already assisted us, the precedent allows more moderate voices like CRX the room to speak up.

In the words of Shenhua herself:
Your friendship offered a seam in the armor of ancient indifference of that clan.
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Where 'friendship' in this instance is the tipping weight of precedent, and the clannish attitudes the Empire itself.
 
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[X] Tell her to leave for it isn't safe for her here, you can talk later.
[X] I am the Student of [Winter's Muse][Songstress of Endings], Feel free to join the performance how you see fit
 
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Well, that was a fucking exhausting trip home, but it gave me a lot of time to theorycraft a good response.

[X] I am the Student of [Winter's Muse][Songstress of Endings], Feel free to join the performance how you see fit

We show no weakness, we actually answer her question, and tosses the ball back in her court in a context that would be understood presuming the cultural drift isn't too out of hand. It establishes that while we're pressed we're not desperate (Which is a sign of weakness), and points out that this is a grand show (Which given the hints that Elders are about to get stuck in, isn't inaccurate) and grants an invitation for her to participate without making demands or risking giving offense, under the context of the 'Performance', which means we might get a big huge dramatic show-fight that nonetheless puts us in a better position, because we've changed the context from a fight into a show
 
I'll approval vote that.

[X] Tell her to help if she's so interested in you, you can talk later.
[X] I am the Student of [Winter's Muse][Songstress of Endings], Feel free to join the performance how you see fit
 
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