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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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@soulcake quick question.

After our contribution with a better way to make Adamant will we be made a Senior member inmediately or will we be a normal member?
 
[X] Plan just the runes, please

Honestly I rather not sell any adamant since some pages ago a guy said we gotta make the sky king's armor.
 
Alratan said:
Probably. I also suspect that it's much easier to make a new Master Rune from three normal runes than from one including a master rune already, although we do see what looks like a precedent for this in what we're shown. As you mention, Unyielding does look a lot like Master Rune of Tireless plus the Rune of Steel plus something else.

The best places to start may well be trying to make Master Runes of Conversion and Hearthward. Particularly as we have the Holdwarder title now (or soon).
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If that's true, I wonder how far you can take it? Could you then make a combo with Unyeilding and turn that into its own master rune, then make a combo with that and turn it into its own master rune, and so on and so forth? I imagine at some point you'd hit a wall when it comes to the reagents required or difficulty of inventing the rune, but it'd still be an interesting research chain.
 
NSMS said:
If that's true, I wonder how far you can take it? Could you then make a combo with Unyeilding and turn that into its own master rune, then make a combo with that and turn it into its own master rune, and so on and so forth? I imagine at some point you'd hit a wall when it comes to the reagents required or difficulty of inventing the rune, but it'd still be an interesting research chain.
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that kind of thing might be how the Rune of Eternity was discovered by Grugni, to be put on the Throne of Power.
 
[X] Plan Void and Adamant Research

Slaggedfire said:
[X] Plan just the runes, please

Honestly I rather not sell any adamant since some pages ago a guy said we gotta make the sky king's armor.
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Pretty sure that it was mentioned that with Adamant it's an all or nothing thing. While making something entirely out of Adamant gives a huge boost putting in just a little of the stuff in other creations doesn't actually do much to improve it.
 
cheesyme said:
Master Runes alone will trigger Rule of Pride, combos just let you override that to a degree as long as the combos are different.

That said, there is a way you might be able to boost the dawi healers in groups, and that' be to try and make a Banner variant of it. Healing, something, and master rune of Valaya would probably be more effective off the battlefield tho.
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Hmmm...

@soulcake
Is there any chance that we could get Snorri to take (or eventually take) a more...flexible approach to the Rule of Pride, kind of like he (and other Runesmiths/lords) already does, for the sake of sheer utility and necessity so long as the work done is excellent? Like, if he makes healing amulets, but the amulets themselves are beautifully made and have small cosmetic differences (like different patterns or imagery for each emblem) to differentiate them, for the sake of saving lots of dwarven lives and safeguarding the Karak? In essence, shift from "everything must be totally unique" to "everything you make must be something you take pride in, both in its make and its purpose"? Snorri felt proud of installing his standard/"basic" runework into Kraka Drakk, after all, because it was made at a very high standard and for an extremely important purpose, after all. And the special Bolt Throwers and Bolt we made to deal with Kholek and his dragon ogre posse were highly effective and a design that could be utilized again in the future against worthy targets--we would just use the same Bolt Throwers again, but they were destroyed by high-tier daemons after crippling Kholek, after all.

Yes, it would make Snorri a bit radical (by dwarf standards), but he's got sufficient prestige and even direct Ancestor approval (not to mention the stuff he will continue to do/do in the future) that I don't think he'd be disliked or disrespected so much as thought of as very weird for a Runelord (which is fitting, considering who his master is).
 
Snorri's already on the more radical end of the spectrum when it comes to the rule of pride; he notes back in the first update that there are plenty of Runelords who'd take issue with his approach to it.
It's a question of what's good for the hold and what's good for honouring the ancestors. You do good by aiding the hold, all those Runes of Light pay off in the long run, less fuel wasted on torches, less dirt to clean, more consistency, things like that. But following the tenets of our guild honours the ancestors, and some would argue that is more important. Personally, I'm of the mind that helping the hold prosper also honours the ancestors, and a hold that lasts longer and grows more prosperous also honours the ancestors. So me redoing a Rune of Light dozens of times ends up honouring the ancestors in its own way. Now, not every runesmith believes that, and you'll learn over time that there are some smiths you can share that opinion with, and others its best to keep your trap shut to keep the peace. Understand?
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Even with his flexibility, I highly doubt he'd be willing to unbend enough to start spamming master runes, even in the manner you suggested. They're just too powerful, and culturally and religiously important.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Hmmm...

@soulcake
Is there any chance that we could get Snorri to take (or eventually take) a more...flexible approach to the Rule of Pride, kind of like he (and other Runesmiths/lords) already does, for the sake of sheer utility and necessity so long as the work done is excellent? Like, if he makes healing amulets, but the amulets themselves are beautifully made and have small cosmetic differences (like different patterns or imagery for each emblem) to differentiate them, for the sake of saving lots of dwarven lives and safeguarding the Karak? In essence, shift from "everything must be totally unique" to "everything you make must be something you take pride in, both in its make and its purpose"? Snorri felt proud of installing his standard/"basic" runework into Kraka Drakk, after all, because it was made at a very high standard and for an extremely important purpose, after all. And the special Bolt Throwers and Bolt we made to deal with Kholek and his dragon ogre posse were highly effective and a design that could be utilized again in the future against worthy targets--we would just use the same Bolt Throwers again, but they were destroyed by high-tier daemons after crippling Kholek, after all.

Yes, it would make Snorri a bit radical (by dwarf standards), but he's got sufficient prestige and even direct Ancestor approval (not to mention the stuff he will continue to do/do in the future) that I don't think he'd be disliked or disrespected so much as thought of as very weird for a Runelord (which is fitting, considering who his master is).
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Personally feels like this kind of idea goes against the idea of Rune lore being more of an art and not something you can industrialize. While there may be some that don't like the Rule of Pride it is a major part of Dwarf rune culture it also discourages min maxing since you just can't constantly reuse the same rune combos over and over again people need to come up with new runes instead thus encouraging creativity. Letting players constantly spam the same exact rune combo with any justification means that nothing stops people from just using the best combos all the time.

I think that anything that talks towards even the idea of industrializing runes should just not be allowed. Runecraft is supposed to be unique, if people can just repeat the same exact rune combos would pretty much turn rune crafting into just another industrial thing. There are literally dozens of quests with a heavy focus in industrilization, it feels like it would seriously cheapen this quest to try to industrialize runes to the degree suggested here since it would feel like any other quest that had such things.

Then of course there is the min maxing issue. It really says a lot that Soulcake went out of his way to point towards a quest that had huge amounts of min maxing as to why he wouldn't allow write ins for trading. It said even more that not long after people literally asked if they could do the very thing he didn't want happening and Soulcake once again had to say that it wasn't going to be allowed.

Besides that Snorri is already more flexible on the rune crafting to a point already. Anything beyond that seems like it would just be flat out ignoring the Rule of Pride.
 
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SaltyWaffles said:
Hmmm...

@soulcake
Is there any chance that we could get Snorri to take (or eventually take) a more...flexible approach to the Rule of Pride, kind of like he (and other Runesmiths/lords) already does, for the sake of sheer utility and necessity so long as the work done is excellent? Like, if he makes healing amulets, but the amulets themselves are beautifully made and have small cosmetic differences (like different patterns or imagery for each emblem) to differentiate them, for the sake of saving lots of dwarven lives and safeguarding the Karak? In essence, shift from "everything must be totally unique" to "everything you make must be something you take pride in, both in its make and its purpose"? Snorri felt proud of installing his standard/"basic" runework into Kraka Drakk, after all, because it was made at a very high standard and for an extremely important purpose, after all. And the special Bolt Throwers and Bolt we made to deal with Kholek and his dragon ogre posse were highly effective and a design that could be utilized again in the future against worthy targets--we would just use the same Bolt Throwers again, but they were destroyed by high-tier daemons after crippling Kholek, after all.

Yes, it would make Snorri a bit radical (by dwarf standards), but he's got sufficient prestige and even direct Ancestor approval (not to mention the stuff he will continue to do/do in the future) that I don't think he'd be disliked or disrespected so much as thought of as very weird for a Runelord (which is fitting, considering who his master is).
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I've seen this sentiment being expressed coupla times itt, and I certainly understand your frustration with the rule of pride, but I think it's important to consider the context the rule operates in. It's a religious commandment rather than just part of a guild charter or whatever, and Snorri, for all his heterodox views, is still a pious man at the end of the day. Barring an extreme crisis of faith, I don't see him concluding the rule is "wrong" or that it needs to be rewritten from the ground up. There's a lot of wriggle room in how to apply it (in fact, Snorri's favoured interpretation is already far removed from the literal text of the rule) but I would be surprised if he ever stopped trying to adhere to some version of it derived from the law as all runesmiths agree it was originally laid down.
 
Apart from anything else, if Snorri started breaking it to that degree he'd probably end up censured by the other dwarven runelords.
 
bird yells said:
I've seen this sentiment being expressed coupla times itt, and I certainly understand your frustration with the rule of pride, but I think it's important to consider the context the rule operates in. It's a religious commandment rather than just part of a guild charter or whatever, and Snorri, for all his heterodox views, is still a pious man at the end of the day. Barring an extreme crisis of faith, I don't see him concluding the rule is "wrong" or that it needs to be rewritten from the ground up. There's a lot of wriggle room in how to apply it (in fact, Snorri's favoured interpretation is already far removed from the literal text of the rule) but I would be surprised if he ever stopped trying to adhere to some version of it derived from the law as all runesmiths agree it was originally laid down.
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Yep, while I get the frustration from some of the players it's important to remember that there are in-story and in-character reasons for such things. In character it wouldn't make sense for a Runelord to outright ignore something that is outright part of their culture and religion. It's especially true for Dwarfs who are an extremely prideful race whose culture is very important to them.
 
Red Bovine said:
Yep, while I get the frustration from some of the players it's important to remember that there are in-story and in-character reasons for such things. In character it wouldn't make sense for a Runelord to outright ignore something that is outright part of their culture and religion. It's especially true for Dwarfs who are an extremely prideful race whose culture is very important to them.
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yeah, though.. with Hearth and Home, he might be tempted to go ham on Master Runes if there's a major battle coming or the like. Something where his home needs protected, we certainly went and made a lot of items very quickly with Kholek coming at us.
 
jjffjhjf said:
yeah, though.. with Hearth and Home, he might be tempted to go ham on Master Runes if there's a major battle coming or the like. Something where his home needs protected, we certainly went and made a lot of items very quickly with Kholek coming at us.
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Those didn't have many master runes, though- we only put them on a very few items. Apart from anything else, the amount of time it takes to make a master rune means they can't really be used in rush jobs.
 
jjffjhjf said:
yeah, though.. with Hearth and Home, he might be tempted to go ham on Master Runes if there's a major battle coming or the like. Something where his home needs protected, we certainly went and made a lot of items very quickly with Kholek coming at us.
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Not sure about that. Thing is that Snorri does know a lot of Master Runes so he doesn't need to heavily rely on a few since he can always rely on multiple ones. Besides that IIRC master runes do take more time to do then normal runes due to complexity and power.
 
I binged this quest a week or so ago and it has been an epic read. Everything has been excellently written. The characterization, comedy, tragedy, lore, and just Dwarfiness have been excellently weaved together. It has been a pleasure to read it.

soulcake said:
It's becoming routine for you now, which is infuriating, to watch as Dolgi is berated by his wife to be from his bed in the Temple of Valaya.
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I wanted to ask about this, didn't Dolgi swear on his beard that he wouldn't marry Klorah until he became a master?
 
MrHobbit said:
I binged this quest a week or so ago and it has been an epic read. Everything has been excellently written. The characterization, comedy, tragedy, lore, and just Dwarfiness have been excellently weaved together. It has been a pleasure to read it.


I wanted to ask about this, didn't Dolgi swear on his beard that he wouldn't marry Klorah until he became a master?
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wife-to-be. Which means they aren't married, I edited in the hyphens just now tho.
 
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MrHobbit said:
I binged this quest a week or so ago and it has been an epic read. Everything has been excellently written. The characterization, comedy, tragedy, lore, and just Dwarfiness have been excellently weaved together. It has been a pleasure to read it.


I wanted to ask about this, didn't Dolgi swear on his beard that he wouldn't marry Klorah until he became a master?
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It says wife-to-be right in the bit you quoted, boss.
 
Red Bovine said:
Not sure about that. Thing is that Snorri does know a lot of Master Runes so he doesn't need to heavily rely on a few since he can always rely on multiple ones. Besides that IIRC master runes do take more time to do then normal runes due to complexity and power.
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Also the actual way around the Rule of Pride - Figure out a combo of lesser runes which does the same thing as a Master Rune. Lesser runes can be freely made by Snorri and Combos aren't restricted at all. You need Master Rune combos when making some top tier masterwork. When it comes to stuff you give everyone the Combo is more than sufficient
 
soulcake said:
"About a bar every two decades per smelter, though I have enough smelters now to get up to a bar per decade. Total conversion of the bar though. Only thing stopping me from making more is the Rule of Pride."
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A thought, I wonder if we might want to rethink how the rule of pride should be applied to industrial processes? More than most things runlords create, the purpose of industrial infrastructure is its output, more is the point of it more so than with banners or legendary weapons that are in many ways symbols of authority and prestige for the hero entrusted with them.
 
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