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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[X] Plan All the Griffon Stuff

The only thing I regret about this plan is the lack of Yorri Prods on the Dragon Ogre bodies but otherwise I'm happy with it.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
What about it? I didn't see any complaints when we overdid Trollslayer instead of using actions on other things that would have seen us further along, or when we forwent four actions worth of research to go on campaign with Grimnir. The gift of eternal life should be used when it's something we've not had in other quests, limited as we are by lifespan. We will be able to work on it, I want to do something awesome and get the Dragon Ogre stuff finished so we can reap the rewards, especially in our next design, the armor of the Sky King.

Hell, Morgrim might even still be here!

Besides. The fact that Yorri isn't required to spend his time helping us just means he has time to do something else. And as he's still here, I imagine that will be interesting if nothing else.
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Wasn't there for that but I definitely would have argued against that many actions on one single thing. Especially since we managed to get something on that tier with 3 actions when we made the kings armor. Not only has the QM mentioned there being caps to overflow but we literally had this argument when it came to the defenses when people were talking about literally spending multiple turns in a row doing nothing but digging tunnels and defenses. In fact, really feels like there should just be strong limits on how many actions we can put into projects to prevent things like focusing on only one single project beyond what is reasonable unless it's a multi turn project where overflow goes into the next part and counts as progress.

And before we go on war turns are absolutely not the same thing as this situation since we were outright part of an army in an ongoing campaign.

As I brought this up before but a major issue in this quest is people heavily obsessing over things to an unreasonable and crippling degree. This Griffin thing is a good example with people being extremely unreasonable about this and seeming to ignore the arguments against it. I mean when the caps argument that literally exist in this quest were brought up everyone ignored them for no good reason. It just gets extremely unreasonable to the point that people just flat out ignoring points that other people bring up.
 
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I don't mind 2 actions on it, it's just a bit of a waste to do a yorri prod action and not actually use all the prods since next turn it'll prob be another 75 dice check for him to stay.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
@soulcake, if Yorri leaves and we have prods unspent, would they still be available when next we see him?
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If Yorri returned then yes, if you had prods left over they'd be there still.
Horium said:
@BungieONI

The Griffon King armour request doesn't cost an action?
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No it doesn't. :^)
BungieONI said:
What do you mean by "locked in" in this instance? Very specifically?
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As in you have to take Pt. 1 the next turn.
Red Bovine said:
Okay that this particular line seems to imply that some people are just reading into things way too much.
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Don't read too much into that too lol :^)
 
Well, that's good to hear that Yorri would keep the prods.

...Though, given Dawi honor and respect, we really should have expected that answer.
 
Honestly, there's a perfectly good griffon related action to put a lot of actions into, that's the KoTS armor. Trying to jam 5 rune actions into 1 actions worth of space makes no sense to me. I expect this to be like when we overflowed on making the pickaxes, there'll be a moderate amount of additional benefit from the initial overflow but there comes a point where additional pickaxes (Or defensive runes in this case) are not needed.

If it turns out that 4 actions of overflow on a 2/3 simple request with no part 2 actually all can be usefully processed. Then in my mind that turns overflow from a blackhole you can kind of guess at, to one you can't. It makes the initial action cost lose quite a bit of meaning in my eyes as well.
 
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Thomasfoolery said:
Honestly, there's a perfectly good griffon related action to put a lot of actions into, that's the KoTS armor. Trying to jam 5 rune actions into 1 actions worth of space makes no sense to me. I expect this to be like when we overflowed on making the pickaxes, there'll be a moderate amount of additional benefit from the initial overflow but there comes a point where additional pickaxes (Or defensive runes in this case) are not needed.
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Those additional pickaxes came with a side-order of a Legendary Deed, if you're talking about when we Earth Moved the Underway.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Those additional pickaxes came with a side-order of a Legendary Deed, if you're talking about when we Earth Moved the Underway.
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I'm talking about when we made the pickaxes at the start of the quest, we didn't overflow the action cost on the underway. It's a completely different scenario.

ArchAIngel said:
Didn't that overflow there get us a +5 of Runed Picks when we fought Trolls, though?
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Not that I recall on the roll mods. They gave additional workers that came from the news of the gromril find the ability to start immediately iirc. I didn't say that time specifically gave no benefit (Was one tic of overflow), I said there comes a point when additional actions will.
 
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Thomasfoolery said:
Honestly, there's a perfectly good griffon related action to put a lot of actions into, that's the KoTS armor. Trying to jam 5 rune actions into 1 actions worth of space makes no sense to me. I expect this to be like when we overflowed on making the pickaxes, there'll be a moderate amount of additional benefit from the initial overflow but there comes a point where additional pickaxes (Or defensive runes in this case) are not needed.

If it turns out that 4 actions of overflow on a 2/3 simple request with no part 2 actually all can be usefully processed. Then in my mind that turns overflow turns a blackhole you can kind of guess at, to one you can't. It makes the initial action cost lose quite a bit of meaning in my eyes as well.
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I really don't like the idea of being able to put too many actions into any one thing. It just feels like it too heavily encourages soulless min maxing/leading to people to trying to spend tons of actions into one single thing. We already had a number of players arguing against spending a ton of actions into defense for multiple turns in a row. It would also likely lead to even more obsessing over things. I already can't stand the idea of more defense actions popping up due to how much people obsess over them to an insane degree. The same thing applies to the Griffins for me at this point.
 
Red Bovine said:
I really don't like the idea of being able to put too many actions into any one thing. It just feels like it too heavily encourages soulless min maxing/leading to people to trying to spend tons of actions into one single thing. We already had a number of players arguing against spending a ton of actions into defense for multiple turns in a row. It would also likely lead to even more obsessing over things. I already can't stand the idea of more defense actions popping up due to how much people obsess over them to an insane degree. The same thing applies to the Griffins for me at this point.
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I understand that you might have other opinions about what plans should be made. However, while you have your own valid perspective and desires, I do not find it helpful when you consistently characterize other people as obsessive, insane, and souless. Please stop.
 
SurpriseMe said:
I understand that you might have other opinions about what plans should be made. However, while you have your own valid perspective and desires, I do not find it helpful when you consistently characterize other people as obsessive, insane, and souless. Please stop.
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I'm not calling people obsessive, insane or soulless. I am saying that people can display such behaviors and this is a thing in quests. Hell, when someone pointed out that people were obsessing over the golem idea I pretty much went 'huh, they have a point there' and I was one of those people. As in one of the people that was a bit obsessive with the golem idea. I didn't see it as an insult then so I don't see why people think that.
 
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[X] Plan Conclave of Light With Apprentices

Voting for this solely because I want apprentices, instead of saying 40-50 years for the past 40-50 years.
 
Red Bovine said:
I'm not calling people obsessive, insane or soulless. I am saying that people can display such behaviors and this is a thing in quests. Hell, when someone pointed out that people were obsessing over the golem idea I pretty much went 'huh, they have a point there' and I was one of those people. I didn't see it as an insult then so I don't see why people think that.
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Because people see things differently. You may not think its insulting, but the approach your arguments have taken frankly is.

Red Bovine said:
I really don't like the idea of being able to put too many actions into any one thing. It just feels like it too heavily encourages soulless min maxing/leading to people to trying to spend tons of actions into one single thing. We already had a number of players arguing against spending a ton of actions into defense for multiple turns in a row. It would also likely lead to even more obsessing over things. I already can't stand the idea of more defense actions popping up due to how much people obsess over them to an insane degree. The same thing applies to the Griffins for me at this point.
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When an argument like this is made and it specifically spends time basically telling people that you won't respect their decisions, it sucks and is insulting. Its a bad argument and it does nothing good whatsoever for making the thread a good place to exist in. So basically as SurpriseMe said, please stop disrespecting other people's decisions.
 
BungieONI said:
When an argument like this is made and it specifically spends time basically telling people that you won't respect their decisions, it sucks and is insulting. Its a bad argument and it does nothing good whatsoever for making the thread a good place to exist in. So basically as SurpriseMe said, please stop disrespecting other people's decisions.
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I am legit not sure how that comes across as disrespect and I'm sorry if it's coming across like that. But to put it another way I'm not trying to insult people but point out criticism. I've been a quester for years and flat out admit to having expressed traits like the desire to min max and being a bit obsessive when it comes to ideas.

Min maxing is a thing and anyone that has played video games has probably done it at least once. The literal definition of min maxing is trying to get as high as points as possible no matter what. It's pretty much the appeal of trying to get as 'high' a number of possible. This can include things like trying always going for the wizard class because many see it as the best class. The issue is that it leads to people always going for a specific way of gaming which when you think about it is pretty limiting since it requires you to play a certain way pretty much all the time. Example being playing a wizard all the time, sure it seems fun the first few times but for many it can get boring after the fiftieth time, especially in quests. I call it soulless since it's focusing over 'numbers/efficiency' over story/narrative. If someone was arguing against doing the Aeries action this turn over researching everything we could have that would have been an example of min maxing.

As for obsessing over things just going to say I'm pretty sure that people have obsessed over one thing or another to a non serious degree. I mean I can definitively say I obsessed over gaming a number of times with doing things like spending multiple hours in a video game trying to get every single achievement and I'm sure a number of gamers do that as well.

These are traits that are just common for these kinds of things. Just because you are obsessive or like to min max in games doesn't mean that you do the same thing in real life. I definitely can say I never obsess over things as nearly as much as I did with GTa games. I can also definitely say that these things are common in quests and can be seen in patterns. Again these aren't meant as insults.

Though what I find confusing about people saying these are meant as insults instead of criticism is that a number of people did complain and agree with complaints in regards to things like the Golem obsession and Defense obsession. Though I might just not be explaining things well since admittedly I'm not good at communicating what I mean.
 
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