Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

[][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
Not terribly fond of this one. Change and action is good, but I don't like the assertion that happiness can't be found in stillness and tranquility.

[][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
Again, not really a fan. Ambition is useful, sure, but dangerous without limits.

[][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
Mixed feelings about this one. I really like the philosophy of growing stronger through past trials, but it has a risk of being taken to an extreme. It's a philosophy I can easily imagine getting mutated into deliberately seeking out pain and suffering to strengthen oneself. Again, I like the general principle, just hesitant about committing too strongly to it.

[][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
Really like this one. As others have pointed out, it says flexibility is good, but some lines just shouldn't be crossed. Ling Qi herself has expressed concern about her own willingness to abandon people and principles when things get too risky for herself, so this is a good lesson to internalize for her.

[][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.
No strong feelings here. It's good general advice, but probably not something worth making a core part of who Ling Qi is.

[][CDE] Be always watchful. Foes and treasures alike may hide in the gaps in one's perceptions.
Again, its handy advice, but feels a bit too paranoid for my taste.

Vanguard_D said:

It is actually how LQ is like a person though, like when she met the sect lifer when she got her imperial writ, she cant understand being fine with not moving forward and bettering herself. Like the FVM insight it values an action based way of doing things. And as Domain parts work together you got to consider those also. So those two would probably interact in LQ continuing to work and be driven for the sake of her loved ones.

We got to take a stand on motions vs stillness at some point as we cultivate, so avoiding it is not really an option either.

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I don't disagree that this is something of how LQ already mostly sees things and behaves. But just because it's something we're already like doesn't mean that we should take the insight. Insights are about what we have learned and what we want to become, value, and uphold in ourselves as we move forward. They're not meant to just be things that already describe us as we were or currently are at the moment. And there's little to no chance of us ever deciding to just "settle" for contentment and stop moving forward. It's not like we're at risk of forgetting our drive or anything. Argent Mirror insight helps ensure we don't fall to something we saw as a potential weakness in what we were or could potentially allow ourselves to do, but did not want to allow ourselves to do, as an example. But here all we do is lock ourselves out of options if we absolutely commit to motion and forsake stillness as an option.

TBH I think that this motion vs stillness dichotomy is a false one. We don't really need to make a stand on it as we cultivate. We can just ignore the distinction instead, or view it with more nuance than simply picking one outright and throwing the other out the window eventually, in its entirety.

Mr Apollo said:

Ugh, SCS 1 is so close to being perfect but the 'no content in stillness' part absolutely kills it for me. We may not stop to simply enjoy the moment and what we have very often, but that makes the times we do all the more precious. Linq Qi is enough of a workaholic without carving it into our soul.

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This is a good point, and it ties in with my response above. We're already SO driven that we already have trouble making sure we can stop to just take a few breaths and appreciate what we are doing. You can have small stillnesses between your usual habits of motion. If you literally never stop like the SCS 1 insight insists, you can risk burning yourself, you can have trouble developing deeper connections to others who aren't so frantically active, and you can lose sight of the benefits of what you are doing and get lost in the endless stream of steps forward and get caught up just in the motion for itself.

I just don't think we need to take an absolute stance on motion or stillness, now, or ever. There are advantages to both, and we can use both. We can take our absolute stands in other places as we establish our domain, foundation, and later our Way.


Also, I hadn't considered before the potential of locking our our awesome new stillness art if we took SCS 1. TBH we shouldn't be letting single arts guide our decisions about major path decisions like that, but on the other hand, it seems like that's just one small reason more to pass on SCS 1.

Alectai said:

But at this point I think we're mostly just arguing semantics again

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Most likely.

Either way, there's a chance that SES will shore up the lesson of TRF that got left on the table after this vote, which is fine.

Valmond said:

Not necessarily.
I see it as a more "dare to dream" thing, don't accept your lot and instead decide what you want, and then find a way to get it.
As long as the thing we want is a family, that family needs to also want us or it won't be a family.

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That would be the favourable interpretation of "desires" here yes. But the definition of desires used in our "One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family." advanced insight is obviously not that one. There desires refer to something more base, without a lot of "is this really right" reflection included.

Might be that desires here mean something different, but I wouldn't count on it.

SCS2 is fine because Ling Qi has already acknowledged the worth of her friends' desires. It isn't a conflict - her friends' happiness and desires are her desires.

Yandere is good civ!

So here's what our domain is looking like so far:

Insights
-Sincerity is the measure by which the worthiness of the self and ones guests should be measured.
-There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings.
-Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end.
-Empty
-Empty
-Empty
-Empty

Advanced Insights
One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family.

Some insights obviously fit better thematically here than others. I can point out at least one available insight that directly contradicts an insight here, at least in surface-level wording (*cough*SCS's second insight*cough*). In my opinion, there's one available insight that fits very well here, and I don't see the need to slot any others when we'll have many more options in the near future, such as the insights we'll obtain from finishing HDW and SES.

[][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength

lendary said:

That would be the favourable interpretation of "desires" here yes. But the definition of desires used in our "One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family." advanced insight is obviously not that one. There desires refer to something more base, without a lot of "is this really right" reflection included.

Might be that desires here mean something different, but I wouldn't count on it.

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To be fair.

We can't actually slot a Domain Insight that's incompatible?

So like, the "Desires" thing here is sort of innately going to take into account the desires of others as well.

Like, let's be fair here. All of these choices are compatible with our current Domain Insights. It's future stuff that would be potentially conflicted.

lendary said:

That would be the favourable interpretation of "desires" here yes. But the definition of desires used in our "One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family." advanced insight is obviously not that one. There desires refer to something more base, without a lot of "is this really right" reflection included.

Might be that desires here mean something different, but I wouldn't count on it.

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Our desires should have no limits.
But desire is not the same as action.
We should want things freely, without always thinking of what we should want, or what we deserve, but act with restraint and reason as we are not mindless beasts.

Valmond said:

Our desires should have no limits.
But desire is not the same as action.
We should want things freely, without always thinking of what we should want, or what we deserve, but act with restraint and reason as we are not mindless beasts.

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Hmm. That would be a nice interpretation. I'd be very much in favour if it meant that. Not sure if it really does though. There's a lot of uncertainty involved.

Damn I'm not cut out for this. My physicist brain is just constantly screaming "define your terms people!"

lendary said:

Hmm. That would be a nice interpretation. I'd be very much in favour if it meant that. Not sure if it really does though. There's a lot of uncertainty involved.

Damn I'm not cut out for this. My physicist brain is just constantly screaming "define your terms people!"

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Quantum physics is a thing and you know it

Mmm, it's kinda difficult to argue against SCS1 becuase in many ways it feels like Ling Qi has *already* slotted it.

It feels like she'd just internalise SCS like that without even thinking about it.

TehChron said:

Quantum physics is a thing and you know it

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A thing with well defined terms and axioms

Erebeal said:

Mmm, it's kinda difficult to argue against SCS1 becuase in many ways it feels like Ling Qi has *already* slotted it.

It feels like she'd just internalise SCS like that without even thinking about it.

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I'd say the main difference between slotting and not slotting is that the former strongly disincentivises changing from that mindset, if not outright disallowing that, depending on how sharp an effect it has.

I am meh on the CDE insights.

Surprisingly I do not like the SCS insights - finding peace and contentment in a moment of quietness is very important, otherwise LQ becomes too restless, too driven; and likewise I do not like the desire one - curtailing one's desire is also important for happiness

We can afford to be picky with insights, so we should be. These cannot be changed and there are limited slots.

I will probably vote for one of the TRF insights - I like both - and for not slotting SCS and CDE.

Mmm, I feel like SCS shouldn't be a problem for SNR for meta reasons.

Like, SNR seems pretty clearly designed as a TRF replacement that fixes the compatibility issues we were having between it and SCS.

To then go "no actually they're incompatible. Despite you already having the lesson of movement without movement from it" would kinda be ehhhhhhh

Since it might become relevant during the discussion, I would like to ask @yrsillar for clarification regarding three thing:

1) our cultivation art EPC is currently contributing xp to our domain, does this mean that it can get slotted when it maxes out? And if so, would i.e. slotting EPC lock out other non-successor cultivation arts like AG from the domain?


2) previously there was an idea that direct successors (i.e. SCS -> Wind Thief) would maybe build upon the existing insight, if the original art has been slotted.
Is this how it will work, or will successors become new, additional insights?

and

3) if the successor mechanic works, would maxing a 'similar art' to one we have already slotted (i.e. TRF and SES) give the option of 'merging' the new insight into the old, or would the new art always become a new insight?

Huo Yuhao said:

So here's what our domain is looking like so far:

Insights
-Sincerity is the measure by which the worthiness of the self and ones guests should be measured.
-There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings.
-Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end.
-Empty
-Empty
-Empty
-Empty

Advanced Insights
One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family.

Some insights obviously fit better thematically here than others. I can point out at least one available insight that directly contradicts an insight here, at least in surface-level wording (*cough*SCS's second insight*cough*). In my opinion, there's one available insight that fits very well here, and I don't see the need to slot any others when we'll have many more options in the near future, such as the insights we'll obtain from finishing HDW and SES.

[][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength

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I changed my mind. I don't think doubling down on only the insights most closely related to the themes of our domain is a good idea. Upon further consideration, I believe this will stunt Ling Qi's character in certain ways, magnifying character flaws that can be easily taken advantage of. This may lead to overall weaker domain strength, but I believe the best option is to slot insights that take Ling Qi's domain in new directions while still being relevant to her character and the themes of her domain.

My previous choice was:

[][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength

This insight is closely tied to FSS's and FVM's domain insights. It incorporates the idea of learning from endings, so long as they are not the End, while also emphasizing the strength one gains from overcoming difficulty along one's path. However, relative to the other possible insights, I do not believe this brings much to the table.

On the other hand, further emphasizing these aspects of Ling Qi's domain might make Ling Qi turn a blind eye to the negative consequences of pain and struggle, both within herself and within her Home, due to excessively subscribing to the philosophy of "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

There is another insight available that develops Ling Qi's domain in a new direction while still being relevant to Ling Qi's character and the current themes of her domain.

[][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.

Even though endings may not be final, that doesn't mean you shouldn't have a bottom line. Holding steady to your values has intrinsic worth in all situations. Not only does this insight build off of Ling Qi's current domain in novel ways, it also closely ties into her character development throughout the entire story. Ling Qi has continuously struggled with holding steady to her values, a character issue exemplified most clearly in the King of the Forest arc. It will be very interesting to see the circumstances under which Ling Qi incorporates this insight into her domain and how it affects her character arc.

Huo Yuhao said:

So here's what our domain is looking like so far:

Some insights obviously fit better thematically here than others. I can point out at least one available insight that directly contradicts an insight here, at least in surface-level wording (*cough*SCS's second insight*cough*). In my opinion, there's one available insight that fits very well here, and I don't see the need to slot any others when we'll have many more options in the near future, such as the insights we'll obtain from finishing HDW and SES.

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It's pretty easy to reconcile SCS 2 with Ling's existing domain. A lot of people itt already view her as someone who would move mountains for a friend while not especially caring about the plights of strangers or societal mores more generally, and this new insight would dovetail neatly with that reading. Slotting it wouldn't make Ling disregard the people close to her, but it might make her less inclined to set aside an ambition for the sake of propriety or politics. Or to put it another way: this insight isn't going to end with Ling warehousing her family in a country estate like Cai Shenhua does with her legal husband, but it could totally lead to Ling openly getting grabby with one of her side pieces in public like Cai Shenhua does, and to hell with respectable public opinion.

At the end of the day I'm going to vote against it because it suggests a philosophy of might makes right and I don't like that, but I don't think slotting it would result in Ling shouting that does not compute in a progressively higher pitch until her head explodes.

lendary said:

A thing with well defined terms and axioms

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Alright. Point.

Thats the whole point of experiments in the first place, huh

[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye

SCS builds on the person LQ is. Ignoring that will weaken her in the long run and her Domain will be poorer for it. It is ultimately what she wants. To grow both herself and those around her.

TRF works well with what she learned so far and how she survived and thrived. Kinda shonen really when you look at it. Should work well with previous insights.

CDE dont really give anything worth slotting imo. We got more stuff that might give better insights down the road so rather save a slot.