My problem with voting to save Kymai is that, as I see it, Kymai is strategically dead in the water. It's besieged by an enemy that effectively doesn't have to worry about running out of supplies, it's isolated, and on top of that the nations best situated to assist it have an interest in seeing it gone. I admit that I'm at a bit of a loss for what we're supposed to do, realistically speaking.

The best-case scenario I can come up with is that we evacuate most of the population to somewhere in the Adriatic, turn the city into a military garrison, and then Oscans leave once they realize the loot inside the city's been replaced with a bunch of angry Eretrians. And that's going to be expensive and risky, especially since we'll be putting a lot of our troops in harm's way.
You misunderstand. We arent going to save the city. Such ambitions are the realm of the Gods and dreams and the mad. We are going to take all who are willing to leave, and spirit them away from that doomed place. We have no capability to defeat such a powerful foe so far from our shore, we have no capability to actually hold Kymai, even if Ares himself should descend Olympus to stand in our Phalanx, they will return one day and Kymai is so far from us that were we even the slightest bit distracted they would fall. Again. They offer us no economic or strategic benefit as might Ankon, or Pharos. The only reason we would set our triremes to sea on their behalf at all is sentimentality and a vague impression of responsibility for their well being, the way a father might worry about his Son departed in search of glory or employment, and yearn for their safe return.
 
The only reason we would set our triremes to sea on their behalf at all is sentimentality and a vague impression of responsibility for their well being, the way a father might worry about his Son departed in search of glory or employment, and yearn for their safe return.

Well, actually, establishing a city of very grateful colonists in a natural harbor in the Adriatic would have some benefits...
 
Italus, A Play of the Origin of Italia (Cavalier)
The following offered by Alexis, son of Kallias, to the Festival of the Divine Marriage in honor of Apollon and Athena. With prayers and sacrifice to Dionysios for the success of the enterprise.

Players
Penelope, wife of Telegonos and widow of Odysseus
Italus, son of Telegonos and Penelope
Harpalus, a barbaroi shepherd
Ausetes, a barbaroi chieftain
Foenus, brother to Ausetes
A female slave
A messenger
Athena
Apollon
Artemis
Chorus, followers of Telegonos from Ithaca

Prologos
A bare stage:
Penelope laments the decision of her son Telemachus to banish his half-brothers from the island of Circe. This is done at the command of Zeus, who will not allow the mortal Italus and his brothers to remain among immortals. As she sings of her many sorrows Athena appears and bids to take comfort. She has not forgotten her patronage of Odysseus and his family, and promises to bring Italus to fair lands and prosperity.

Act I
Stage arranged with trees:
Italus enters along with the Chorus, newly arrived to a barbarian land. He meets Harpalus tending sheep and asks of the nature of the land. The shepherd greets him as a stranger seeking hospitality and provides meat and wine for him. After the ceremonial meal, Harpalus explains his people are rustic shepherds, unlettered and unlearned of the gods. He hunted the boar that provided them meat but has no words to thank the divine for his fortune. Italus teaches him a prayer to Artemis and appraises him of the proper ways of sacrifice, as a gift for his hospitality. Harpalus then directs him to the nearest city, but warns that the King Ausetes there is a cruel and petty tyrant who has oppressed the local peoples.

Stasima
The Chorus confirms that Italus has been guided by Athena, who had often favored his grandfather. She has in mind a cunning plan to reconcile the siblings Apollon and Artemis, still divided by the death of Orion, by bringing the arts of civilization to ignorant barbarians. They assure the audience that everything that has happened and will happen is in accordance with the will of all-mighty Zeus, who has sent Italus into exile for a reason.

Act II
Stage arranged with a fake wall:
King Ausetes and his brother discuss the arrival of the Hellenes with the female slave in the background. Ausetes fear the foreigners and desires to march out to murder them right away. Foenus however counsels treachery, urging the King to invite Italus and his followers into the city and grant them hospitality before turning on them. Ausetes is swayed by his brother and agrees to the murder plot. Italus enters with the Chorus and Harpalus, to exchange xenia with Ausetes. The King orders that Italus and his men be given food and baths, and exits the stage with Italus and Foenus. The female slave then warns Harpalus of the plot to murder Italus and his followers.

Stasima
The Chorus relates the punishments of Ixion, Tantalus, and Paris for the breaking of xenia. By contrast they praise Baucis and Philomon for offering hospitality to the disguised Zeus and Hermes, despite their glamour of being poor sojourners. They also discuss and warn of the folly of mistreating slaves and dependents and warn that no one knows who may have divine protection.

Act III
Stage arranged with a fake wall:
Foenus and Ausetes discuss their planned ambush of the Hellenes, with Ausetes having second thoughts about betraying Italus after he has taken guest-privilege. His brother again sways him, saying that the Hellenes will threaten his hold on the tribes of the region by providing an example of free men. A messenger then arrives to report the failure of the attempt to kill Italus and his followers, who have fought their way out of the city. Foenus then turns on his brother and murders him to seize power. Italus and the Chorus arrive afterward at the walls of the city to parley and upbraid Ausetes for his treachery. Foenus declares his intent to exterminate the Hellenes and reveals he has allied himself with savage and godless tribes from the deep interior of the country. Italus swears revenge and promises to liberate the country from the grip of tyranny.

Stasima
The Chorus relates that a cowardly attempt to murder Italus by an archer shooting from ambush was thwarted by the intervention of Apollo, who deflected the arrow. Further that seeing the valor of the Hellenes and swayed by Harpalus, the tribes of the area have joined with the Hellene exiles to fight for their freedom. A decisive battle looms, and the Chorus confidently predicts that the Hellenes will be favored by the gods to punish Foenus and his people for their violations of divine law.

Act IV
Stage arranged with a fake wall:
Italus and Harpalus enter with the Chorus. Harpalus relates the defeat of Foenus and his men, and the subsequent retreat by the interior tribes into the city. They have burned the city and sacked and carried off its inhabitants. Foenus staggers in, mortally wounded, cursing his allies for their treachery. He surrenders to Italus and awards him control of the region before dying. Italus grants Harpalus and his tribe their freedom, and in exchange for the hospitality they have shown him will teach them agriculture, the rites of the gods, and civilized games and arts. Apollon descends to bless the arrangement and further settlement of Hellenes in the region which the god dubs Italia.

Exodus
Artemis and Apollon embrace as siblings, guided by Athena. Apollo prophecies the arrival of more Hellenes to Italia in even more desperate straits to win a greater glory. Artemis concedes to the development so long as the settlers do justice by the natives and respect her patronage of them. They exit with the players as the Chorus recites a hymn of praise to Zeus for allowing events to unfold as they have.
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry its people wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
Adhoc vote count started by Admiral Skippy on Jun 17, 2019 at 9:09 PM, finished with 196 posts and 43 votes.
 
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The following offered by Alexis, son of Kallias, to the Festival of the Divine Marriage in honor of Apollon and Athena. With prayers and sacrifice to Dionysios for the success of the enterprise.

Players
Penelope, wife of Telegonos and widow of Odysseus
Italus, son of Telegonos and Penelope
Harpalus, a barbaroi shepherd
Ausetes, a barbaroi chieftain
Foenus, brother to Ausetes
A female slave
A messenger
Athena
Apollon
Artemis
Chorus, followers of Telegonos from Ithaca

Prologos
A bare stage:
Penelope laments the decision of her son Telemachus to banish his half-brothers from the island of Circe. This is done at the command of Zeus, who will not allow the mortal Italus and his brothers to remain among immortals. As she sings of her many sorrows Athena appears and bids to take comfort. She has not forgotten her patronage of Odysseus and his family, and promises to bring Italus to fair lands and prosperity.

Act I
Stage arranged with trees:
Italus enters along with the Chorus, newly arrived to a barbarian land. He meets Harpalus tending sheep and asks of the nature of the land. The shepherd greets him as a stranger seeking hospitality and provides meat and wine for him. After the ceremonial meal, Harpalus explains his people are rustic shepherds, unlettered and unlearned of the gods. He hunted the boar that provided them meat but has no words to thank the divine for his fortune. Italus teaches him a prayer to Artemis and appraises him of the proper ways of sacrifice, as a gift for his hospitality. Harpalus then directs him to the nearest city, but warns that the King Ausetes there is a cruel and petty tyrant who has oppressed the local peoples.

Stasima
The Chorus confirms that Italus has been guided by Athena, who had often favored his grandfather. She has in mind a cunning plan to reconcile the siblings Apollon and Artemis, still divided by the death of Orion, by bringing the arts of civilization to ignorant barbarians. They assure the audience that everything that has happened and will happen is in accordance with the will of all-mighty Zeus, who has sent Italus into exile for a reason.

Act II
Stage arranged with a fake wall:
King Ausetes and his brother discuss the arrival of the Hellenes with the female slave in the background. Ausetes fear the foreigners and desires to march out to murder them right away. Foenus however counsels treachery, urging the King to invite Italus and his followers into the city and grant them hospitality before turning on them. Ausetes is swayed by his brother and agrees to the murder plot. Italus enters with the Chorus and Harpalus, to exchange xenia with Ausetes. The King orders that Italus and his men be given food and baths, and exits the stage with Italus and Foenus. The female slave then warns Harpalus of the plot to murder Italus and his followers.

Stasima
The Chorus relates the punishments of Ixion, Tantalus, and Paris for the breaking of xenia. By contrast they praise Baucis and Philomon for offering hospitality to the disguised Zeus and Hermes, despite their glamour of being poor sojourners. They also discuss and warn of the folly of mistreating slaves and dependents and warn that no one knows who may have divine protection.

Act III
Stage arranged with a fake wall:
Foenus and Ausetes discuss their planned ambush of the Hellenes, with Ausetes having second thoughts about betraying Italus after he has taken guest-privilege. His brother again sways him, saying that the Hellenes will threaten his hold on the tribes of the region by providing an example of free men. A messenger then arrives to report the failure of the attempt to kill Italus and his followers, who have fought their way out of the city. Foenus then turns on his brother and murders him to seize power. Italus and the Chorus arrive afterward at the walls of the city to parley and upbraid Ausetes for his treachery. Foenus declares his intent to exterminate the Hellenes and reveals he has allied himself with savage and godless tribes from the deep interior of the country. Italus swears revenge and promises to liberate the country from the grip of tyranny.

Stasima
The Chorus relates that a cowardly attempt to murder Italus by an archer shooting from ambush was thwarted by the intervention of Apollo, who deflected the arrow. Further that seeing the valor of the Hellenes and swayed by Harpalus, the tribes of the area have joined with the Hellene exiles to fight for their freedom. A decisive battle looms, and the Chorus confidently predicts that the Hellenes will be favored by the gods to punish Foenus and his people for their violations of divine law.

Act IV
Stage arranged with a fake wall:
Italus and Harpalus enter with the Chorus. Harpalus relates the defeat of Foenus and his men, and the subsequent retreat by the interior tribes into the city. They have burned the city and sacked and carried off its inhabitants. Foenus staggers in, mortally wounded, cursing his allies for their treachery. He surrenders to Italus and awards him control of the region before dying. Italus grants Harpalus and his tribe their freedom, and in exchange for the hospitality they have shown him will teach them agriculture, the rites of the gods, and civilized games and arts. Apollon descends to bless the arrangement and further settlement of Hellenes in the region which the god dubs Italia.

Exodus
Artemis and Apollon embrace as siblings, guided by Athena. Apollo prophecies the arrival of more Hellenes to Italia in even more desperate straits to win a greater glory. Artemis concedes to the development so long as the settlers do justice by the natives and respect her patronage of them. They exit with the players as the Chorus recites a hymn of praise to Zeus for allowing events to unfold as they have.

Good shit. I'll sidestory this one. The original Zeus and Hera play is a little shorter and so I'll keep that one as a mention, but if people write stuff of similar length, either omakes or plays, I'll threadmark em.
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].

[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].

[X] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry its people wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].
 
In that case, I have no objections.

[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].
 
Is anyone willing to put forth their reasoning for spreading out the people of Lykai as a Metic underclass tied to all cities across the Epulian League rather than shoring up the fledgling colonies? There's a huge lead of votes on that part although we've had hardly any discussion on it, which seems dangerous to me. I think I made an OK argument against it which I have quoted below for ease of reference, if there's a point of contention that anyone has with it please let me know.

The current vote seems ill-advised to me. As it stands, it's looking like we're going to spread out our colonists all throughout Eretria and the Epulian League. This negates the stability advantage of sending out angry metics who are dissatisfied with their place in the city out to the colonies by renewing the supply of angry metics; actually, it substantially increases that potential fifth column population in some areas such as Ankon. Then they're present as a network that forces hostile to us may rely on in each of our cities for much needed information, much as the planned Peuketii slave revolt from the first chapter. Furthermore, we leave our colonies in a relatively vulnerable state by not maximizing the number of people who are on them, particularly as Pharos has a large and restive population of barbaroi inclined to fight against us, and the Liburni may yet raid them to squish out such a provocative city in its most vulnerable infancy if it seems that they can get away with it to discourage further colonization attempts. We will not really be in a position to contest this if our triremes are all tied up for the next several years in trying to ferry the inhabitants of Kymai to who-knows-where from clear on the other side of Italy, let alone if we're in naval conflict with Rhegion or trying to raid the Campanian pastures from the sea as some have suggested; furthermore, with the Antipatrids and Exorians in power, we're not really lined up for Adriatic adventurism until the next elections.

I'd rather settle the inhabitants of Kymai together, in the new colony of Pharos. As full citizens in a league rather than their families being broken up and inducted to an underclass, their hatred will be lessened by the most it is possible under the circumstances; our Epulian League cities are left more stable, and Pharos has the greatest Hellenic settling population possible to render the new colony as impossible to dislodge. I admit that there is a question about the loyalty of these citizens to Eretria after having been pried from their homes, but consider this. Kerkyra is now at about the weakest state it has ever been; it is in no shape to launch some expedition to coup the island, not while it still recovers from its civil war and must provide Athens its due as a new member of the Delian League. For that matter, calling in Athens is rather unlikely we have had positive relations and worked to our mutual benefit as occurred just now in Sicily; it would lose Athens a precious source of grain and our positive ties to coup Pharos for the sake of Kerkyra which is already indebted to them anyway.

Furthermore, our unfettered immigration policy will soon begin to dilute them once it is demonstrated that this island is in fact safe by having that large initial population to ward off barbaroi attack. Consider how it was described when enacted:



Our immigration policy is practically tailor made to minimize this as a problem. We'd be initially be at 600/1200 on Pharos and 200/600 on Issa being of Lykai, but over the course of 24 years of funding whoever wants to settle on the Adriatic Dodecanese from all of our League's lands (potentially the citizens of Kymai as well) they will constitute a small minority. Furthermore as citizens with full membership of the League it will take quite the offer to convince them to betray us and risk their privileges that could easily be lost, while if they are despised Metics they have little to lose.

Heck, even IF they did betray us, they'd still have to serve the purpose we established for the colony. We launched this expedition to create a fortified position near the Liburni from which to threaten them and dampen the piracy that has plagued Adriatic trade; the people of Pharos will inherently have to fight Liburni piracy to make that part of the world bearable to live in, heading off the threat before it can build up to a level to cause Eretia harm, and creating an Adriatic more hospitable to Greeks by minimization of piracy inherently benefit Eretria. Even if we lose in that case (which as I said looks quite unlikely with every potential party to do it being otherwise occupied in the limited window available before our settlement policy makes it a non-issue), we win.

If instead the people of Pharos get butchered, though, that discourages further colonization and means we'll have a more hostile neighborhood. It doesn't matter how loyal the people of the island are if they end up dead. As such, here is my vote:

[x] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[x] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[x] [Kymai] We cannot risk such an expedition [-10 talents per turn until city falls or the siege is relieved by another power, Eretria will provide grain shipments to the city and ferry refugees wherever they wish. Chance of picking up some of Kymai's citizens at random].

I'm not personally inclined to save Kymai because it's waaaay on out there and I'd rather have valuable foreign policy slots open for other stuff I care more about that's less zany.
 
@Cetashwayo for the next election cycle i assume we will not be able to use our extra foreign policy pick on one of the save Kemayi options and have to go with the one for the foreign policy deme that is chosen
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].

My blood is sated with the clear and truly inspiring defeat we have dealt with the Liburnians. Now my commercial ventures and all of the city is safe for the time being.

How my spear and sword ran red with the blood of the enemy, or how intoxicating it was to jump between life and death in naval battles against such hardy foes!

As for the Lykians, we must settle them in Illyria to provide a bulwark against the Xenos, and focus their mind on the important matter of survival of themselves and the colony against barbaroi instead of having their ire and resentment against us.

As much as we might try to be heroic innrescuing Kymai, reality intrudes and we ought to do the best of the hand the Gods have dealt us with by rescuing as many willing souls as we can.

And I shall present to you my liturgy later.

- Iskandar Xanatos, happy noble for shedding worthy blood and making money.
 
@Cetashwayo for the next election cycle i assume we will not be able to use our extra foreign policy pick on one of the save Kemayi options and have to go with the one for the foreign policy deme that is chosen

Not sure what you're referring to. What I mean by -1 mission is that each deme will only provide 2 foreign missions next year, and they won't be as intensive. Meaning no War with the Dauni, as one example.
 
Is anyone willing to put forth their reasoning for spreading out the people of Lykai as a Metic underclass tied to all cities across the Epulian League rather than shoring up the fledgling colonies? There's a huge lead of votes on that part although we've had hardly any discussion on it, which seems dangerous to me. I think I made an OK argument against it which I have quoted below for ease of reference, if there's a point of contention that anyone has with it please let me know.
From my reading of it, we displaced 800 original citizens from their homes through the ancient hellene equivalent of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. They're going to be resentful as hell that we did this to them, and if we stick them as the vast majority of the colonial population of our fortified waystation and natural harbor, we're going to be facing serious loyalty issues in our extremely important trans-Adriatic strategic infrastructure.
 
Not sure what you're referring to. What I mean by -1 mission is that each deme will only provide 2 foreign missions next year, and they won't be as intensive. Meaning no War with the Dauni, as one example.
Ah, okay I had read it as each Deme would have one of three slots filled with a Kemayi suggestion not that they would just only put forward 2 proposals.
 
Is anyone willing to put forth their reasoning for spreading out the people of Lykai as a Metic underclass tied to all cities across the Epulian League rather than shoring up the fledgling colonies? There's a huge lead of votes on that part although we've had hardly any discussion on it, which seems dangerous to me. I think I made an OK argument against it which I have quoted below for ease of reference, if there's a point of contention that anyone has with it please let me know.
Well, because it makes them a lot less likely to cause problems in the future. Settling them in colonies will hopefully lead to them eventually identifying with the colonies they're in, rather than with each other. It's not ideal; you do mention that they're going to resent us for breaking them up, which is true. But we're less concerned with how much they like us, because frankly they're probably never going to like us. That's entirely fair, of course, given what we did to them.

No, my main concern is how much of a problem their dislike of us is going to be. Clustered together, they may maintain their sense of identity as Lykaian expatriates. Spread out as a minority across a number of cities, though, they'll probably assimilate eventually and then cease to be a concern.

Now, if we could rely on them not to become a separatist problem or a diplomatic liability with Taras, I'd be all for keeping them together, since that would give a powerful boost to any one colony, which would be useful. And splitting them up has ugly undertones I'd prefer to steer clear of. But I'm not sure I want to take that gamble without some serious assurances on the part of the Lykaian families.

EDIT: Perhaps a user motion is in order?
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].

[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].

[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle]


I, Hermesdora Eretriazenis the Psiloi, do vote for the following!

On the matter of colonies, let us spend more attention to Pharos! For the harbor is very good and we must make a polis there in dedication to all those brothers in war that we have lost in the Battle of Pharos!

On the matter of the citizens of Lykai, spread them around the Epulian League! That way they can integrate better in their new homes and spread the wealth brought about by their talents to the entire League!

And on the matter of Kymai, we must attempt to save the city! For they are also Eretrians, and members of the Epulian League, by descent! And for the glory and prestige we will accrue by doing so!

I have now exercised my right to vote! And now I shall congratulate my fellow psiloi for a job well done!

We did it, my fellow psiloi! We are becoming just as much the tip of the spear of Eretrian might as the Ekdromoi and our Triremes! Let us keep this up, and we shall become the best psiloi among the Hellenes!

I shall now return to my thermopolion and my new wife, who is as good a cook as me and my sister Artemisdora!

Bryzos' thermopolion! Oldest operating thermopolion in Eretria Eschate! We have branches in Gnatia and Eretria! We sell the best fish, squid and seaweed dishes in Eretria!


 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].

[X] [Lykai] Spread them out through the Epulian League and colonies [+100 settlers in each Epulian city including Ankon and the colony chosen to be the primary colony for Eretria in the Adriatic Dodecanese].

[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle]
 
From my reading of it, we displaced 800 original citizens from their homes through the ancient hellene equivalent of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. They're going to be resentful as hell that we did this to them, and if we stick them as the vast majority of the colonial population of our fortified waystation and natural harbor, we're going to be facing serious loyalty issues in our extremely important trans-Adriatic strategic infrastructure.

The issue is that unless we settle the Lykai civilians in our new Adriatic colonies, they're going to lose their citizenship. Going from the leading families of Lykai to normal Metics scattered across the Epulian League is a big downgrade in status. We'd effectively be stripping their voting rights and taking the franchise from all of their descendants as well. We also are going to be splitting up families this way too. In order to get even numbers we'll have to in some degree. At best I suspect we're going to have most of these Metics abandon us to go somewhere else; we can't really force them to stay. At worst, we scatter embers of resentment everywhere across the League.

On the other hand, settling them on our formerly Liburnian islands isn't that big of a downgrade. Sure, they were forced out of their homes, but they still have their franchise and any personal wealth they could take with them. The difference in status isn't enormous; they'll recover socioeconomically relatively quickly.

They also have more reason to be loyal to us on the islands (especially on Pharos); they need our protection. The Liburnians have been cowed, but they are not going to forget that we slaughtered literally thousands of fathers, sons, and brothers alongside who knows how many civilians. If the former residents of Lykai were to start a civil war within their poleis, then we can simply wash our hands of it; the Liburnians will murder and enslave them all for us.

Settling a hostile populace as a buffer between ourselves and a known enemy means that both of them have to watch each other before turning on us. There's a reason that neighbours are most likely to feud while the far-off tax collector is barely remembered. The former residents of Lykai will not betray us and side with the Liburnians. Not only are the Liburnians reputed to be pirates, but they're not going to see the difference between the former residents of Lykai and the rest of the new settlement; they're both colonial invaders.

We're also not going to allow the citizens of Lykai to simply remain a hostile populace. They're quickly going to be drowned out by new immigrants who are loyal to the Epulian League. We have an open immigration policy so everyone that can get themselves to our newly conquered islands is going to try and grab their own version of forty acres and a mule. The wave of immigrants in following years will simply crowd out the Lykiians.

I honestly believe the settling Lykai's residents in Pharos will be safer and more conductive to their long-term loyalty than to split them up.
 
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[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].

Very good points.
 
The issue is that unless we settle the Lykai civilians in our new Adriatic colonies, they're going to lose their citizenship. Going from the leading families of Lykai to normal Metics scattered across the Epulian League is a big downgrade in status. We'd effectively be stripping their voting rights and taking the franchise from all of their descendants as well. We also are going to be splitting up families this way too. In order to get even numbers we'll have to in some degree. At best I suspect we're going to have most of these Metics abandon us to go somewhere else; we can't really force them to stay. At worst, we scatter embers of resentment everywhere across the League.

On the other hand, settling them on our formerly Liburnian islands isn't that big of a downgrade. Sure, they were forced out of their homes, but they still have their franchise and any personal wealth they could take with them. The difference in status ins't enormous; they'll recover socioeconomically relatively quickly.

They also have more reason to be loyal to us on the islands (especially on Pharos); they need our protection. The Liburnians have been cowed, but they are not going to forget that we slaughtered literally thousands of fathers, sons, and brothers alongside who knows how many civilians. If the former residents of Lykai were to start a civil war within their poleis, then we can simply wash our hands of it; the Liburnians will murder and enslave them all for us.

Settling a hostile populace as a buffer between ourselves and a known enemy means that both of them have to watch each other before turning on us. There's a reason that neighbours are most likely to feud while the far-off tax collector is barely remembered. The former residents of Lykai will not betray us and side with the Liburnians. Not only are the Liburnians reputed to be pirates, but they're not going to see the difference between the former residents of Lykai and the rest of the new settlement; they're both colonial invaders.

We're also not going to allow the citizens of Lykai to simply remain a hostile populace. They're quickly going to be drowned out by new immigrants who are loyal to the Epulian League. We have an open immigration policy so everyone that can get themselves to our newly conquered islands is going to try and grab their own version of forty acres and a mule. The wave of immigrants in following years will simply crowd out the Lykiians.

I honestly believe the settling Lykai's residents in Pharos will be safer and more conductive to their long-term loyalty than to split them up.
There is also Kymai to consider. If we are successful in relocating them, we could also settle them on Pharos. The Lykai problem, if it ever was a problem, will be drowned in a sea of refugees we just saved from certain death.
 
Honestly it's going to be pretty hard to keep a grudge going for a generation when surrounded by people who don't share it, unless specific effort is invested into keeping that grudge alive somehow. Ultimately they're going to be trading with us every day, and living with our colonists, and they won't be treated any differently than our other colonists. My initial instinct was to use the Lykians to settle the new colony and I doubt it's setting ourselves up for disaster without other factors coming in to play.

That said I don't think splitting them up is a bad choice either. But an early shot in the arm for our new colony would also be quite nice.
 
[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].

[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].

[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle]
 
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From my reading of it, we displaced 800 original citizens from their homes through the ancient hellene equivalent of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. They're going to be resentful as hell that we did this to them, and if we stick them as the vast majority of the colonial population of our fortified waystation and natural harbor, we're going to be facing serious loyalty issues in our extremely important trans-Adriatic strategic infrastructure.

They're not going to be any less resentful in the other options, being downgraded to metic status and being split up is pretty bad. It entirely reverts the stability bonus from pushing out unhappy metics to the colonies by replacing them with more and unhappier metics, and in the case of Ankon which is already unhappy about some of our policy choices we're just dumping in 100 of these guys when that's not a negligible part of their population. Furthermore, as I said, just by existing in the area and fighting off Liburni piracy to survive they'd be doing the job of the colony for us regardless of whatever their official alignment is; and even a coup is unlikely, because the entities liable to do it are all tied up in the meantime with recovering from civil war and fighting Sparta while we have 24 years of funding Epulian colonization on them before citizenship gets locked in. Also if they have privileges, there's the risk to run of those being taken away; that's not the case if they're already an underclass to start.

Well, because it makes them a lot less likely to cause problems in the future. Settling them in colonies will hopefully lead to them eventually identifying with the colonies they're in, rather than with each other. It's not ideal; you do mention that they're going to resent us for breaking them up, which is true. But we're less concerned with how much they like us, because frankly they're probably never going to like us. That's entirely fair, of course, given what we did to them.

No, my main concern is how much of a problem their dislike of us is going to be. Clustered together, they may maintain their sense of identity as Lykaian expatriates. Spread out as a minority across a number of cities, though, they'll probably assimilate eventually and then cease to be a concern.

Now, if we could rely on them not to become a separatist problem or a diplomatic liability with Taras, I'd be all for keeping them together, since that would give a powerful boost to any one colony, which would be useful. And splitting them up has ugly undertones I'd prefer to steer clear of. But I'm not sure I want to take that gamble without some serious assurances on the part of the Lykaian families.

EDIT: Perhaps a user motion is in order?

They can't assimilate as metics, they're not allowed to become citizens and will be a part of an angry underclass telling their descendants how they were left in their state with less rights due to the actions of Eretria. While if they are settled in the colonies, their descendants will have citizenship and will not have as much reason to grouse about inherited lower status due to the circumstances of their parents. Furthermore they get diluted every year with immigration from the Epulian League if they are settled in the colonies, with more immigrants coming there the more secure the islands seem. I'd rather them be disloyal there and do their jobs, anyway, since we're about to undertake a lot of naval action clear on the other side of Italy and will therefore be leaving these islands to develop next to hostile Liburni- we really want them to look threatening enough that they don't get attacked by any of the new neighbors.
 
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