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Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)

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I actually have some idea about things developing into weird directions but that takes lots of time to develop. I have an idea, subject to massive modification based on player choice, about how developments will go down until...about 350 BCE. After that things get a little up in the air. A lot of this is obviously subject to player action, though; I have more plans for things further away from the players because obviously that can be derailed less quickly or obviously by player action, but depending on what players influence that can change too.

And it's some fun stuff, I'll tell you that much.
 
I mean, @Cetashwayo has already added a huge chunk of stuff to Eretria, like the seasilk, tenant farming and public lands.
I'd recommend if you want to try and introduce something, go read up on it, and try and work out how it'd plausibly develop naturally in the era and region, then present it, rather than starting with the end goal and leaving a big chain of question marks as to how it'd ever occur.
 
Admiral Skippy said:
To some extent, we're at a slight disadvantage, because whatever developments we come up with has to be vaguely plausible sounding, whereas History herself is under no such constraints.

On the other hand we have a much more zoomed-out perspective to work with.
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One thing I think it would be really interesting to see is an Eretrian theory of disease. Thucydides was already talking about a contagion model for plagues, so the idea is out there; it's something that honestly is going to have minimal ripple effects, because medicine is not well advanced enough to prove any theory.
 
IMO, the current biggest bottleneck here to anything like a glass industry is the damn harbor. No point in building an industry with exotic and expensive produces and confining the market to one city because we literally cannot safely fit more ships in our tiny harbor. It's a big part of why I plan to go Drakonia after we get our next great work option, sewers be damned.
 
Ironanvil1 said:
I mean, @Cetashwayo has already added a huge chunk of stuff to Eretria, like the seasilk, tenant farming and public lands.
I'd recommend if you want to try and introduce something, go read up on it, and try and work out how it'd plausibly develop naturally in the era and region, then present it, rather than starting with the end goal and leaving a big chain of question marks as to how it'd ever occur.
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Yeah, but that takes effort :V

I am sure many have found it easier to just outsource to the thread since it does a good job of doing the research instead :V
 
On medicine, Hippokrates already had a cameo in Turn 2.

The Gods do not look kindly upon Athenian hubris, and have abandoned them! In their wake, a terrible plague strikes the city. All good citizens of Eretria are to avoid the city of Athenai in the spring and summer months, and to pursue trade with her only in the autumn, when the disturbance of the humors that have encouraged this calamity have calmed. So goes the advice of Kallistos Kallikrates, doctor of Eretria, acting on the advice of Hippokrates of Kos, and advice we would do well to respect!
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Cetashwayo said:
I actually have some idea about things developing into weird directions but that takes lots of time to develop. I have an idea, subject to massive modification based on player choice, about how developments will go down until...about 350 BCE. After that things get a little up in the air. A lot of this is obviously subject to player action, though; I have more plans for things further away from the players because obviously that can be derailed less quickly or obviously by player action, but depending on what players influence that can change too.

And it's some fun stuff, I'll tell you that much.
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Hunh. Interesting. So it looks like the cutoff is a bit before after the birth of Alexander and likewise just before Rome starts to expand across Italy. Makes sense, given how a strong Eretria could dislodge history by putting its weight on the board.

I wonder what other real world historical events fall close to that cutoff.
 
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Article:
Hippocrates was credited by the disciples of Pythagoras of allying philosophy and medicine.[14] He separated the discipline of medicine from religion, believing and arguing that disease was not a punishment inflicted by the gods but rather the product of environmental factors, diet, and living habits.


Truly, we must encourage the disciples of Pythagoras to reside in our city!

Certainly, the advice of Doctor Kallistos Kallikrates cannot be flawed.
 
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racnor said:
IMO, the current biggest bottleneck here to anything like a glass industry is the damn harbor. No point in building an industry with exotic and expensive produces and confining the market to one city because we literally cannot safely fit more ships in our tiny harbor. It's a big part of why I plan to go Drakonia after we get our next great work option, sewers be damned.
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I feel like they might well be linked projects; the waste dirt and rock from the sewer project would provide the landfill for the harbor expansion, and we'd probably want to make sure the sewer outflow isn't blocked by or dumping directly into the new harbor.
 
The Sandman said:
I feel like they might well be linked projects; the waste dirt and rock from the sewer project would provide the landfill for the harbor expansion, and we'd probably want to make sure the sewer outflow isn't blocked by or dumping directly into the new harbor.
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We can't exactly do both at once though, unless the political stance of the demes really switches around and we get a massive windfall.
 
The Sandman said:
I was more thinking sequentially, but deliberately planned as such; sewers first, then immediately into harbor.
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1)Good luck keeping the massive piles of dirt sitting around the city for 8 years, minimum.
2)That seems no less likely to cause problems with intersecting harbor and sewer bits than the other way around.
 
Something that might be cool to look into is developing a native tradition of art and sculpture. I believe Phidias (sculptor of the Statue of Zeus) should recently have passed, although different Athenian domestic events may have averted that.

With a bit more wealth the city or its well-to-do upper class may be able to sponsor some dedicated artists. What better way to leave our mark than in the very stones around us? We may use these to honor the gods and increase our prestige in a way that other Hellenes will surely recognize.

Coming soon to an Ekklesia near you, ornately carved boulders for maximum oratorical effect!
 
Sivantic said:
Tomatoes were also thought to be poisonous because they were related to nightshade, a poisonous plant.

Like, we knew about them for 200 years, but did not eat them regularly until the 20th century!
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To them, it was poisonous. This isn't just something they thought: eating tomatoes regularly killed people. Tomatoes are acidic enough, and contain enough fluid that, if eaten on high-lead plates (very common at the time), it will actually give you lead poisoning.
 
racnor said:
1)Good luck keeping the massive piles of dirt sitting around the city for 8 years, minimum.
2)That seems no less likely to cause problems with intersecting harbor and sewer bits than the other way around.
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We're not keeping the dirt around the city. It's being dumped in the harbor to create seawalls, piers, and a larger anchorage. If we want to get really fancy we can even try making a spit out from Old Bare that we could put a lighthouse on.
 
The Sandman said:
We're not keeping the dirt around the city. It's being dumped in the harbor to create seawalls, piers, and a larger anchorage. If we want to get really fancy we can even try making a spit out from Old Bare that we could put a lighthouse on.
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That sounds an awful lot like a simultaneous second great. However, I suppose It might be doable via user motion. This is,however, a question only @Cetashwayo could really answer now, as the shape of these projects exists mainly in his head.
 
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Himmelhand said:
Something that might be cool to look into is developing a native tradition of art and sculpture. I believe Phidias (sculptor of the Statue of Zeus) should recently have passed, although different Athenian domestic events may have averted that.

With a bit more wealth the city or its well-to-do upper class may be able to sponsor some dedicated artists. What better way to leave our mark than in the very stones around us? We may use these to honor the gods and increase our prestige in a way that other Hellenes will surely recognize.

Coming soon to an Ekklesia near you, ornately carved boulders for maximum oratorical effect!
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Well, I suspect that stuff like that is mostly dependent on the wealth of our city and its inhabitants than anything we can influence directly. As the city grows and new (luxury) trade routes bring riches to its people will probably start to want to display their wealth with gestures like that if we don't try to suppress it/try to go for a more egalitarian society where such open displays of wealth are frowned upon (like for example was the case at certain in romes history).

Though a good source of marble would probably be helpful.


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That said I think is important to make clear that massive building projects like the one in Athens were in no small manner financed by plundering/appropriating/extorting the Delian league and its treasury and thus would be really hard to match by single city, even a wealthy one.
 
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Honestly, I wasn't even figuring on a discount. More just an agreement between the Drakonians and Exorians that regardless of who wins the proboulos slate, those projects are both going to be done in that sequence, and there'd be enough joint planning so that they don't interfere with each other and actual use is made of the waste stone and dirt from the water project.
 
[X] [Taras] Accept the Tarentine terms.
[X] [Spring] The Return of Persephone. Favored by many married women, the return of Persephone is a re-enaction of the drama of Persephone's departure from Hades. Having been married happily to Hades for six months of the year, for in this interpretation she is not kidnapped but seduced away from her domineering mother, the young Persephone must say goodbye to her beloved husband and lord of the underworld. Persephone is presented here as a traditional woman, but also an icon of femininity, beloved by many women in Eretria for giving them someone to look up to. Embued in mystery and icons of the dead, the Return of Persephone is a festival that celebrates the transition from winter to spring and from death to life, the birth of new children, and draws heavily from the Eleusinian mysteries near Athenai, that famed mystery cult.
[X] [Winter] The Ascendency of Zeus Olympios. A monumental festival that celebrates the military victory of Zeus Olympios of the titans and the end of the titanomachia, the war against them. The ascendency has become increasingly popular in Eretria due to the influence of her olympic contestants who have been so shaken by the recently completed statue of Zeus at Olympia that have returned to their faith more vigorous than ever. The true supreme God of the Hellenes, Zeus deserves to be celebrated with vym and vigor in a military and civic parade. During the Ascendency, there is a battle among those representing the titans and olympians, with brawling and wooden swords, and a competition involving a ball which represents control of the heavens between two teams.
[X] [Honors] Pass the motion proposing the reward of a Wreath of Apollon and inscribing on the Painted Relief of Athene as the highest rewards that can be given to a citizen, to be decided by a 60% vote in the assembly for the wreath and an 80% vote for the Painted Stone.
 
KlinkerKing said:
To them, it was poisonous. This isn't just something they thought: eating tomatoes regularly killed people. Tomatoes are acidic enough, and contain enough fluid that, if eaten on high-lead plates (very common at the time), it will actually give you lead poisoning.
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That was not really the fault of the tomato though because it is not innately poisonous.

That sort of judgement you could lay on any sort of dish that uses citric ingredients and if you really want to blame them rather than the high-lead dinnerware...

Well I will let which one of the suspects is still being used say its piece :V
 
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