Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!]

4WheelSword · Mar 13, 2019

thread policy Discussion of politics that does not directly relate to the Quest or to Quest votes are banned from hereon out. This thread policy will be enforced by the Moderation team. Do not ignore it.

Iandude0 · Mar 15, 2019

A cleaned up tally for you all:

Vote Tally : Victoria Falls: A Post-Collapse American Nation Quest [Down With Victoria!] | Page 69 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 1715-1800]
##### NetTally 1.9.10

Task: IDEALS

[x][IDEALS] Socialist: Having come to refer to a specific political movement rather than an entire branch of ideology, modern socialism is focused on giving the state the power to care for allcitizens, and claims that the modern Social Democrat platform does not go far enough in pursuit of this. It also calls for a massive investment into healthcare in order to revitalize the field and make sure that there are enough medical professionals to go around (long-term, they want free healthcare, but there needs to be enough of it first). They also grant unions extensive privileges over private employers. They are fervently in favor of democratized workplaces, and openly campaign in favor of granting them special concessions.
No. of Votes: 36

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.
No. of Votes: 30

[x][IDEALS] Communist: The old revolutionary ideology has elected to push for their aims in the democratic process. Their modern platform, in this setting, is centered around the absolute implementation of workplace democracy in addition to the same welfare and legal measures proposed by other movements. The aims of the American Communists in the present day are to break the concept of private ownership of businesses, which places them in stark opposition to Capitalist and Social Democrat thought of this era. This is a part of a larger drive towards a transition to a fully Communist society, but the Communists have quite enough to be focused on at the moment and are leaving that aside.
No. of Votes: 20

[X][IDEALS] New Capitalist: Aims to restore the old system with badly-needed revisions to address some of the obvious flaws. Among other things, it mandates a living minimum wage tied to government-collected measures, writes into foundational law the de-personhood of anybody who is not, in fact, an actual person, and institutes broad protections for employees against their employers (protected right to unionize, protections for whistleblowers, pension laws for companies, etc.). The New Capitalists do not give a single shit about democratized workplaces, positively or negatively, as long as they pay their taxes.
No. of Votes: 3

Ceslas
Crowhunter
Ghostdevil

[X][IDEALS] New Capitalist
No. of Votes: 2

Versharl
Lazor

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: CRUSH

[x][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.
No. of Votes: 34

[X][CRUSH] Some of the central tenets of the founding government's ideology are written into foundational law, making it difficult for even violently opposed successor governments to fully roll them back without immense popular support.
No. of Votes: 21

[X][CRUSH] None.
No. of Votes: 1

Crowhunter

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: POWER

[x][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.
No. of Votes: 34

[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
No. of Votes: 28

[X][POWER] You are a centralized unitary state with no subordinate governments.
No. of Votes: 1

Angelform

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: TEXT

[x][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.
No. of Votes: 43

[x][TEXT] The Constitution was utterly bereft of any kind of legal, political, or ethical merit and shall be cast into the trash heap of history where it belongs. We shall start anew from a blank slate.
No. of Votes: 28

[X][TEXT] The old Constitution had its flaws, but it was a document of many strengths as well. It lasted two and a half centuries. We shall honor that and preserve the original. Our changes will be amendments, as intended, with our population approving them as specified in the text.
No. of Votes: 3

Ceslas
Simon_Jester
Thebigpieman

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: REVIEW

[x][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.
No. of Votes: 40

[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution will serve just fine with a standardized system for proposing amendments.
No. of Votes: 3

Ceslas
KnightDisciple
Simon_Jester

[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every 50 years.
No. of Votes: 2

avatar11792
rikalous

Total No. of Voters: 53

Bruce-Man · Mar 15, 2019

[X][IDEALS] New Capitalist
[X][CRUSH] Some of the central tenets of the founding government's ideology are written into foundational law, making it difficult for even violently opposed successor governments to fully roll them back without immense popular support.
[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.
[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution will serve just fine with a standardized system for proposing amendments.

Susano · Mar 15, 2019

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.

[X][CRUSH] Some of the central tenets of the founding government's ideology are written into foundational law, making it difficult for even violently opposed successor governments to fully roll them back without immense popular support.

[X][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.

[X][TEXT] The Constitution was utterly bereft of any kind of legal, political, or ethical merit and shall be cast into the trash heap of history where it belongs. We shall start anew from a blank slate.

[x][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.

Magoose · Mar 15, 2019

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.
[X][IDEALS] Socialist: Having come to refer to a specific political movement rather than an entire branch of ideology, modern socialism is focused on giving the state the power to care for allcitizens, and claims that the modern Social Democrat platform does not go far enough in pursuit of this. It also calls for a massive investment into healthcare in order to revitalize the field and make sure that there are enough medical professionals to go around (long-term, they want free healthcare, but there needs to be enough of it first). They also grant unions extensive privileges over private employers. They are fervently in favor of democratized workplaces, and openly campaign in favor of granting them special concessions.
[X][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.
[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
[X][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.
[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.
[X][TEXT] The Constitution was utterly bereft of any kind of legal, political, or ethical merit and shall be cast into the trash heap of history where it belongs. We shall start anew from a blank slate.
[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.
[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution will serve just fine with a standardized system for proposing amendments.

Revising the vote. I just can't see forcing the constitution going under revision ever 30 years.

However, I am willing to let socialism win to prevent communism from winning.

KnightDisciple · Mar 15, 2019

AKuz said:
Socialist is leading SocDem by about 4 votes.

Hey, SocDem and SocDem/Socialist voters, is there anything I/we can do to get you to... vote full Socialist? Guarantees to be made? Issues to to addressed? Concerns spoken to?

I mean, things are already abstracted, and the way @PoptartProdigy has written things, I'm not twitching against Socialist. I just revised my vote above.

My biggest concern/fear in Socialism or Communism can be summed up by this scenario (inspired by real life):

A husband and wife own a chicken farm. Not, like, 10 chickens, but a lot of chickens. They own the land, the chicken houses, the barn, and the house on the property. They do the most work, they're the ones who put this farm here. But they hire help. Let's say 4 people; 2 part-time, 2 full-time assistants. Mostly tasked with secondary labor, assisting the owners, etc.

Depending on how extreme "WORKPLACE DEMOCRACY" becomes, how protected are they from having their farm seized by these 4 people, up to and including being evicted from their home, or having to sit in a house and watch these people work this farm or tear it down?

CatOnTheWeb · Mar 15, 2019

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.
[X][IDEALS] Socialist: Having come to refer to a specific political movement rather than an entire branch of ideology, modern socialism is focused on giving the state the power to care for all citizens, and claims that the modern Social Democrat platform does not go far enough in pursuit of this. It also calls for a massive investment into healthcare in order to revitalize the field and make sure that there are enough medical professionals to go around (long-term, they want free healthcare, but there needs to be enough of it first). They also grant unions extensive privileges over private employers. They are fervently in favor of democratized workplaces, and openly campaign in favor of granting them special concessions.

[X][CRUSH] Some of the central tenets of the founding government's ideology are written into foundational law, making it difficult for even violently opposed successor governments to fully roll them back without immense popular support.

[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.
[X][TEXT] The Constitution was utterly bereft of any kind of legal, political, or ethical merit and shall be cast into the trash heap of history where it belongs. We shall start anew from a blank slate.

[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.

Imrix · Mar 15, 2019

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat
[X][IDEALS] Socialist
[X][CRUSH] None
[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
[X][TEXT] The Constitution was utterly bereft of any kind of legal, political, or ethical merit and shall be cast into the trash heap of history where it belongs. We shall start anew from a blank slate.
[x][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.

VoidZero · Mar 15, 2019

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat
[X][CRUSH] Some
[X][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.

AKuz · Mar 15, 2019

KnightDisciple said:
I mean, things are already abstracted, and the way @PoptartProdigy has written things, I'm not twitching against Socialist. I just revised my vote above.

My biggest concern/fear in Socialism or Communism can be summed up by this scenario (inspired by real life):

A husband and wife own a chicken farm. Not, like, 10 chickens, but a lot of chickens. They own the land, the chicken houses, the barn, and the house on the property. They do the most work, they're the ones who put this farm here. But they hire help. Let's say 4 people; 2 part-time, 2 full-time assistants. Mostly tasked with secondary labor, assisting the owners, etc.

Depending on how extreme "WORKPLACE DEMOCRACY" becomes, how protected are they from having their farm seized by these 4 people, up to and including being evicted from their home, or having to sit in a house and watch these people work this farm or tear it down?

For a small Farm or other family business? Generally the thought is that those people will still be allowed to be private but their employees are garuntee'd to be unionized.

Though that depends on the agricultural scheme in their area. While C O L L E C T I V I Z A T I O N is a NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, communal farms will likely be encouraged, and everyone would manage a wide swath of land collectively. (Without state input beyond, like, the stuff that happens in SocDem states)

Artificial Girl · Mar 15, 2019

KnightDisciple said:
I mean, things are already abstracted, and the way @PoptartProdigy has written things, I'm not twitching against Socialist. I just revised my vote above.

My biggest concern/fear in Socialism or Communism can be summed up by this scenario (inspired by real life):

A husband and wife own a chicken farm. Not, like, 10 chickens, but a lot of chickens. They own the land, the chicken houses, the barn, and the house on the property. They do the most work, they're the ones who put this farm here. But they hire help. Let's say 4 people; 2 part-time, 2 full-time assistants. Mostly tasked with secondary labor, assisting the owners, etc.

Depending on how extreme "WORKPLACE DEMOCRACY" becomes, how protected are they from having their farm seized by these 4 people, up to and including being evicted from their home, or having to sit in a house and watch these people work this farm or tear it down?

I mean, the democratic workplace would include control over the chickens, their feed, etc. but not the couple's house because it's not part of the business/labor of raising chickens and eggs. They wouldn't face being evicted, but it is possible that their employees might be able to force decisions about how and where to sell eggs or what feed to buy, that kind of thing.

Ptolemy · Mar 15, 2019

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.

[X][CRUSH] Some of the central tenets of the founding government's ideology are written into foundational law, making it difficult for even violently opposed successor governments to fully roll them back without immense popular support.

[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
[X][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.

[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.

Currently undecided on the Constitutional Review stuff.

Ptolemy · Mar 15, 2019

Inserted tally

Adhoc vote count started by Ptolemy on Mar 15, 2019 at 1:59 PM, finished with 96 posts and 59 votes.

44 people have voted
[x][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.
- AKuz
- Flectarn
- Rat King
- Mal-3
- Aranfan
- DanBaque
- Jeboboid
- minerva-n-memes
- Chimeraguard
- Lazer Raptor
- veteranMortal
- Jim Starluck
- LHB
- avatar11792
- Random Member
- QTesseract
- thamuzz
- Cyberphilosipher
- Doctor Elsewhere
- Durabys
- Thebigpieman
- Teron
- Taut_Templar
- Dwergar
- Angelform
- Rakuhn
- Mortenkam
- Rui
- Whumbly
- Mr.Smiley
- Asuryan
- Versharl
- Lazor
- hYGP
- Parzival95
- Antix_Shadows
- rikalous
- aceraptor
- Iandude0
- KnightDisciple
... and 4 more.
42 people have voted
[x][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.
- AKuz
- Flectarn
- Rat King
- Mal-3
- Aranfan
- DanBaque
- Jeboboid
- minerva-n-memes
- Chimeraguard
- Lazer Raptor
- veteranMortal
- Jim Starluck
- LHB
- thamuzz
- Cyberphilosipher
- Artificial Girl
- Doctor Elsewhere
- Durabys
- Dwergar
- Angelform
- Rakuhn
- Mortenkam
- Rui
- Whumbly
- Mr.Smiley
- ScreenWatcher
- Asuryan
- Versharl
- jamie96969
- MJ12 Commando
- Estro
- EarthScorpion
- Imrix
- hYGP
- Parzival95
- Antix_Shadows
- rikalous
- aceraptor
- Teen Spirit
- Iandude0
... and 2 more.
38 people have voted
[x][IDEALS] Socialist: Having come to refer to a specific political movement rather than an entire branch of ideology, modern socialism is focused on giving the state the power to care for allcitizens, and claims that the modern Social Democrat platform does not go far enough in pursuit of this. It also calls for a massive investment into healthcare in order to revitalize the field and make sure that there are enough medical professionals to go around (long-term, they want free healthcare, but there needs to be enough of it first). They also grant unions extensive privileges over private employers. They are fervently in favor of democratized workplaces, and openly campaign in favor of granting them special concessions.
- AKuz
- Flectarn
- Rat King
- Mal-3
- Aranfan
- DanBaque
- Jeboboid
- minerva-n-memes
- Chimeraguard
- Lazer Raptor
- veteranMortal
- Jim Starluck
- LHB
- avatar11792
- Random Member
- Artificial Girl
- Doctor Elsewhere
- Durabys
- Rakuhn
- ScreenWatcher
- Asuryan
- hYGP
- Parzival95
- rikalous
- KnightDisciple
- Magoose
- CatOnTheWeb
- QTesseract
- Thebigpieman
- Dwergar
- Angelform
- jamie96969
- MJ12 Commando
- Estro
- EarthScorpion
- Imrix
- Antix_Shadows
- Teen Spirit
37 people have voted
[x][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.
- AKuz
- Flectarn
- Rat King
- Mal-3
- Aranfan
- DanBaque
- Jeboboid
- minerva-n-memes
- Chimeraguard
- Lazer Raptor
- veteranMortal
- Jim Starluck
- LHB
- Random Member
- Ceslas
- QTesseract
- thamuzz
- Cyberphilosipher
- Artificial Girl
- Thebigpieman
- Teron
- Taut_Templar
- Dwergar
- Whumbly
- Mr.Smiley
- Versharl
- Lazor
- hYGP
- Parzival95
- Antix_Shadows
- aceraptor
- Iandude0
- KnightDisciple
- Magoose
- Susano
- VoidZero
- Ptolemy
35 people have voted
[x][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.
- AKuz
- Flectarn
- Rat King
- Mal-3
- Aranfan
- DanBaque
- Jeboboid
- minerva-n-memes
- Chimeraguard
- Lazer Raptor
- veteranMortal
- Jim Starluck
- LHB
- Ceslas
- Artificial Girl
- Dwergar
- Rakuhn
- ScreenWatcher
- Asuryan
- Versharl
- hYGP
- Parzival95
- Antix_Shadows
- rikalous
- aceraptor
- KnightDisciple
- Magoose
- QTesseract
- Thebigpieman
- jamie96969
- MJ12 Commando
- Estro
- EarthScorpion
- Imrix
- Teen Spirit
34 people have voted
[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.
- avatar11792
- Teron
- Taut_Templar
- Whumbly
- Mr.Smiley
- Asuryan
- hYGP
- Parzival95
- rikalous
- aceraptor
- Iandude0
- KnightDisciple
- Magoose
- Susano
- CatOnTheWeb
- Ptolemy
- QTesseract
- thamuzz
- Cyberphilosipher
- Thebigpieman
- Dwergar
- Angelform
- JOJOBRN
- Mortenkam
- Rui
- Ghostdevil
- Versharl
- jamie96969
- MJ12 Commando
- Estro
- EarthScorpion
- Imrix
- Lazor
- VoidZero
31 people have voted
[X][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
- avatar11792
- Random Member
- QTesseract
- thamuzz
- Cyberphilosipher
- Doctor Elsewhere
- Durabys
- Thebigpieman
- Dwergar
- Angelform
- Rakuhn
- Mortenkam
- Rui
- ScreenWatcher
- Asuryan
- Versharl
- jamie96969
- MJ12 Commando
- Estro
- EarthScorpion
- Imrix
- hYGP
- Parzival95
- Antix_Shadows
- aceraptor
- Teen Spirit
- Iandude0
- KnightDisciple
- Magoose
- Bruce-Man
- Ptolemy
31 people have voted
[x][TEXT] The Constitution was utterly bereft of any kind of legal, political, or ethical merit and shall be cast into the trash heap of history where it belongs. We shall start anew from a blank slate.
- AKuz
- Flectarn
- Rat King
- Mal-3
- Aranfan
- DanBaque
- Jeboboid
- minerva-n-memes
- Chimeraguard
- Lazer Raptor
- veteranMortal
- Jim Starluck
- LHB
- avatar11792
- Random Member
- QTesseract
- Artificial Girl
- Doctor Elsewhere
- Durabys
- Angelform
- Rakuhn
- ScreenWatcher
- jamie96969
- MJ12 Commando
- Estro
- EarthScorpion
- Imrix
- hYGP
- Teen Spirit
- Susano
- CatOnTheWeb
25 people have voted
[X][CRUSH] Some of the central tenets of the founding government's ideology are written into foundational law, making it difficult for even violently opposed successor governments to fully roll them back without immense popular support.
- avatar11792
- Random Member
- thamuzz
- Cyberphilosipher
- Doctor Elsewhere
- Durabys
- Teron
- Taut_Templar
- Dwergar
- Angelform
- Mortenkam
- Rui
- Whumbly
- Mr.Smiley
- ScreenWatcher
- Lazor
- Parzival95
- aceraptor
- Iandude0
- Bruce-Man
- Susano
- CatOnTheWeb
- Ptolemy
- QTesseract
- VoidZero
20 people have voted
[x][IDEALS] Communist: The old revolutionary ideology has elected to push for their aims in the democratic process. Their modern platform, in this setting, is centered around the absolute implementation of workplace democracy in addition to the same welfare and legal measures proposed by other movements. The aims of the American Communists in the present day are to break the concept of private ownership of businesses, which places them in stark opposition to Capitalist and Social Democrat thought of this era. This is a part of a larger drive towards a transition to a fully Communist society, but the Communists have quite enough to be focused on at the moment and are leaving that aside.
- AKuz
- Flectarn
- Rat King
- Mal-3
- Aranfan
- DanBaque
- Jeboboid
- minerva-n-memes
- Chimeraguard
- Lazer Raptor
- veteranMortal
- Jim Starluck
- LHB
- Artificial Girl
- Doctor Elsewhere
- Durabys
- Rakuhn
- ScreenWatcher
- hYGP
- Antix_Shadows
5 people have voted
[X][IDEALS] New Capitalist: Aims to restore the old system with badly-needed revisions to address some of the obvious flaws. Among other things, it mandates a living minimum wage tied to government-collected measures, writes into foundational law the de-personhood of anybody who is not, in fact, an actual person, and institutes broad protections for employees against their employers (protected right to unionize, protections for whistleblowers, pension laws for companies, etc.). The New Capitalists do not give a single shit about democratized workplaces, positively or negatively, as long as they pay their taxes.
- Ceslas
- Ghostdevil
- Versharl
- Lazor
- Bruce-Man
4 people have voted
[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution will serve just fine with a standardized system for proposing amendments.
2 people have voted
[X][TEXT] The old Constitution had its flaws, but it was a document of many strengths as well. It lasted two and a half centuries. We shall honor that and preserve the original. Our changes will be amendments, as intended, with our population approving them as specified in the text.
- Ceslas
- Thebigpieman
2 people have voted
[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every 50 years.
- avatar11792
- rikalous
1 people have voted
[X][POWER] You are a centralized unitary state with no subordinate governments.
- Angelform

gutza1 · Mar 15, 2019

[X][IDEALS] Social Democrat: Centered around the idea that it is the state's responsibility to ensure a bare-minimum standard of living, the Social Democrats add to the New Capitalist agenda with a push for a government guarantee of adequate housing, food, and water to all citizens -- itself a fairly titanic task. It remains rooted in the fundamental ideal of private enterprise. The Social Democrats have some interest in the potential of democratized workplaces and are willing to support them in an experimental measure.
[X][IDEALS] Socialist: Having come to refer to a specific political movement rather than an entire branch of ideology, modern socialism is focused on giving the state the power to care for all citizens, and claims that the modern Social Democrat platform does not go far enough in pursuit of this. It also calls for a massive investment into healthcare in order to revitalize the field and make sure that there are enough medical professionals to go around (long-term, they want free healthcare, but there needs to be enough of it first). They also grant unions extensive privileges over private employers. They are fervently in favor of democratized workplaces, and openly campaign in favor of granting them special concessions.
[X][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.
[X][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.
[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.
[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.

john fox · Mar 15, 2019

[X][IDEALS] New Capitalist: Aims to restore the old system with badly-needed revisions to address some of the obvious flaws. Among other things, it mandates a living minimum wage tied to government-collected measures, writes into foundational law the de-personhood of anybody who is not, in fact, an actual person, and institutes broad protections for employees against their employers (protected right to unionize, protections for whistleblowers, pension laws for companies, etc.). The New Capitalists do not give a single shit about democratized workplaces, positively or negatively, as long as they pay their taxes.

Legitimacy++
Pisses off Socialists and Communists.
Familiarity will be reassuring to old American allies. Foreign corporations will like the relatively free hand compared to trends elsewhere in the world and will be eager to do business if you can gain access to foreign markets. The flip side is that your markets are extremely vulnerable to foreign dominance at game start. You will need to approach foreign markets with extreme caution, and likely after time to prepare.
Democratized workplaces are legal but gain no special advantages.

[X][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.

Legitimacy++
Democratic
Relationship with minority parties not necessarily hostile
You lose, you lose
Demonstrates and encourages faith in the democratic process

[X][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.

Guarantees permanent local governance while maintaining a primary central government, but that government will have less ability to direct resources
Very traditional and also quite the attractive deal to subordinates

[X][TEXT] The old Constitution had its flaws, but it was a document of many strengths as well. It lasted two and a half centuries. We shall honor that and preserve the original. Our changes will be amendments, as intended, with our population approving them as specified in the text.

Legitimacy++
Misses chances for greater reform
Radical reformists are angered by missed opportunities, but this is a potent call back to the old days

[X][REVIEW] The new Constitution will serve just fine with a standardized system for proposing amendments.

Susano · Mar 15, 2019

AKuz said:
Socialist is leading SocDem by about 4 votes.

Hey, SocDem and SocDem/Socialist voters, is there anything I/we can do to get you to... vote full Socialist? Guarantees to be made? Issues to to addressed? Concerns spoken to?

My concern regarding socialism as worded in this vote is that, well... I am on board with workplace democratization (which luckily SocDem allows here!), but I want market competition between those democratized businesses. And I fear the entrenched role of unions that seems to be the core difference between SocDem and Soc here is a hindrance to that. Ideally, I would like worker-owned companies competing against each other, including failing and going bankrupt if they can't survive on the market. But with strong unions instead forcing and pushing policy on all companies of their respective sectors (things like pushes against automatization or worktime liberalizations), you kinda lose that competition aspect.

Opifex-Plebian · Mar 15, 2019

Plan name : Free Territories of America

[X][IDEALS] Socialist: Having come to refer to a specific political movement rather than an entire branch of ideology, modern socialism is focused on giving the state the power to care for all citizens, and claims that the modern Social Democrat platform does not go far enough in pursuit of this. It also calls for a massive investment into healthcare in order to revitalize the field and make sure that there are enough medical professionals to go around (long-term, they want free healthcare, but there needs to be enough of it first). They also grant unions extensive privileges over private employers. They are fervently in favor of democratized workplaces, and openly campaign in favor of granting them special concessions.

[X][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.

[X][POWER] You are a decentralized federal state somewhat akin to the early United States.

[X][TEXT] The Constitution serves as a broad guide for the structure of this document, and many legal concepts integral to it carry through, but it is rewritten from the ground up to serve its new situation rather than simply amending it until it fits.

Aranfan · Mar 15, 2019

Susano said:
My concern regarding socialism as worded in this vote is that, well... I am on board with workplace democratization (which luckily SocDem allows here!), but I want market competition between those democratized businesses. And I fear the entrenched role of unions that seems to be the core difference between SocDem and Soc here is a hindrance to that. Ideally, I would like worker-owned companies competing against each other, including failing and going bankrupt if they can't survive on the market. But with strong unions instead forcing and pushing policy on all companies of their respective sectors (things like pushes against automatization or worktime liberalizations), you kinda lose that competition aspect.

Not even communist gets rid of market competition.

Susano · Mar 15, 2019

Aranfan said:
Not even communist gets rid of market competition.

I didn't mean to imply there would be no market. What I meant was that if the unions in a certain sector get too strong, then the companies all have to toe their line, instead of having actually competing concepts. This can be a detriment even to necessary adaptations and lead to workers in certain sectors becoming inequally priviegized over workers in other sectors on the strength of their unions. See France for both issues - which isn't socialist, yes, but as I've stated, my concern is with the entrenched union power in socialism as worded here.

Nyvis · Mar 15, 2019

[x][IDEALS] Socialist
[x][IDEALS] Communist

[x][CRUSH] None. This is a democracy. If your ideology cannot make its case to the people in practice, it deserves to fail.
[X][CRUSH] Some of the central tenets of the founding government's ideology are written into foundational law, making it difficult for even violently opposed successor governments to fully roll them back without immense popular support.

[x][POWER] You are a devolved unitary state with subordinate governments formed or dissolved by central governmental decrees according to need
[x][POWER] You are a centralized federal state along the lines of the later United States.

[x][TEXT] The Constitution was utterly bereft of any kind of legal, political, or ethical merit and shall be cast into the trash heap of history where it belongs. We shall start anew from a blank slate.

[x][REVIEW] The new Constitution should be put to review and possible revision every thirty years.

Simon_Jester · Mar 15, 2019

Rat King said:
Cheap, stamped steel submachine guns for everybody!

Sara Goldblum:

"I love my Sten gun, it's my favorite thing after 'not being in a concentration camp,' but can we please start turning out a decent battle rifle in quantity? It's not all urban warfare from here to Maine."

MJ12 Commando said:
Because you know what sort of government has no legitimacy? A gridlocked government that can't do anything. You know what the US Constitution makes absurdly easy? A gridlocked government that can't do anything.

To be fair, the US very rarely has this problem until recently, EXCEPT in times when the nation itself was very divided.

AKuz said:
Socialist is leading SocDem by about 4 votes.

Hey, SocDem and SocDem/Socialist voters, is there anything I/we can do to get you to... vote full Socialist? Guarantees to be made? Issues to to addressed? Concerns spoken to?

Speaking for myself, I'm approval-voting for everything I like, and Social Democrat is acceptable to me.

Aranfan · Mar 15, 2019

Susano said:
I didn't mean to imply there would be no market. What I meant was that if the unions in a certain sector get too strong, then the companies all have to toe their line, instead of having actually competing concepts. This can be a detriment even to necessary adaptations and lead to workers in certain sectors becoming inequally priviegized over workers in other sectors on the strength of their unions. See France for both issues - which isn't socialist, yes, but as I've stated, my concern is with the entrenched union power in socialism as worded here.

Ok. I thought you were more committed to direct democracy as a good thing in itself than that. But ok

Rat King · Mar 15, 2019

Simon_Jester said:
Sara Goldblum:

"I love my Sten gun, it's my favorite thing after 'not being in a concentration camp,' but can we please start turning out a decent battle rifle in quantity? It's not all urban warfare from here to Maine."

Sten gun? No, no, PPS-43! Accept no substitutes! 2.7 hours of machine time, 6 kg of raw materials and you get a handy, reliable little package!

Sterling is also a good subgun that's cheap and reliable.

Susano · Mar 15, 2019

Aranfan said:
Ok. I thought you were more committed to direct democracy as a good thing in itself than that. But ok

Ouch. Touché. But does socialism have more direct democracy? Not on the political level as far as I can see, and on the workplace level, democratized businesses merely get "preferred" - and even SocDem has that in certain sectors.

The big differences I see between Soc and SocDem as written up are 1) the healthcare push and 2) union privileges.

Simon_Jester · Mar 15, 2019

Aranfan said:
Ok. I thought you were more committed to direct democracy as a good thing in itself than that. But ok

Unions have the potential to stop being direct democracies, and to start becoming kleptocratic republics, and we can't reasonably build rules about union bylaws and internal organization into our constitution.

veteranMortal · Mar 15, 2019

Susano said:
Ouch. Touché. But does socialism have more direct democracy? Not on the political level as far as I can see, and on the workplace level, democratized businesses merely get "preferred" - and even SocDem has that in certain sectors.

The big differences I see between Soc and SocDem as written up are 1) the healthcare push and 2) union privileges.

Then vote communist?

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