Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- At the end of the world
You mean what they show us? I wouldn't rely on this information too much.
- Location
- France
The problem with qi drain is that it's just there in the fight scenes: it may have some mechanical interest but narratively it's boring. You can't have the flying sword save the day with a "the sword continued to drain qi while Ling Qi played" instead of " Ling Qi played Hearfrost Refrain and the sword echoed. The effect was devastating.". Choosing the buff effect refocus the attention on the sword and make it a visible part of our fighting style and not a background effect that we will bore of given time. Plus mechanically when we need qi drain, it's for combat against a mass of weaker ennemies and FVM play that role very well.
- Location
- At the end of the world
And if we have draining qi Sword then we can concentrate on something else than always setting up FVM or some similar Art just to drain qi.
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- Location
- Staring into the void
Inserted tally
I agree with @Erebeal that Bark Worn Rough would meet its (apparent) thematic objectives better if it dealt the damage regardless of whether the opponent's attack succeeded (unless maybe it succeeded by a large margin). It's better balance too, since C rank qi expense for E rank damage which relies on the opponent failing and doesn't actually help the opponent fail is a bit... aggressively niche. To be honest, I'm not sure why it's even a C rank tech; it's immediate, so it won't be subject to dispels, and it doesn't do dispels. Especially since it's leaning on a C rank tech already being active, it feels like it could be a D rank tech, or D rank qi cost just fine.
There seems to be a bit of a division between Storm Enduring Seedling's themes and it being 2/3s response techniques as well. The effects of those techniques are fleeting, which doesn't quite capture the mood of the art's narrative in my mind.
Anyway,
[X] It's cry grew ever more eerie
I'm not interested in the other options because its perk only applies when Ling Qi uses an attack tech (and the sword has already landed a blow), and I want to continue recalibration towards an effective support paradigm. And I do mean support support, not the debuff style we've been pretending counts as support. Not that I want to kill attacking and debuffing entirely either. Coherent song might be the more narratively striking choice, but it focuses the narrative on something I don't particularly want to be the focus of the narrative.
There's some weird arguments for Coherent too, like that the "echoes" described mean a total replication of all tech effects, rather than the explicitly stated +hit and + pen. Or that the other sword is the "anti-mook" sword, despite both weapons having pretty similar profiles in that regard. Both swords require them to land a hit on the enemy before its effect affects the enemy, both ultimately result in more damage to the enemy, and both effects can probably be dispelled. The difference is the parameters and context of the delivery of that extra damage.
Edit: tl;dr: The +attack version of the domain weapon relies on Ling Qi taking specific action to benefit from it, on the timer of Domain Weapon durability; if she's busy with things other than attacking(like setting up field effects or buffing people) prior to the weapon breaking in a combat, then the ability has accomplished nothing.
The debuff version of the sword is less restricted in this regard, as its effects do not rely on specific actions from Ling Qi specifically. It's the more tactically flexible choice, on average.
There seems to be a bit of a division between Storm Enduring Seedling's themes and it being 2/3s response techniques as well. The effects of those techniques are fleeting, which doesn't quite capture the mood of the art's narrative in my mind.
Anyway,
[X] It's cry grew ever more eerie
I'm not interested in the other options because its perk only applies when Ling Qi uses an attack tech (and the sword has already landed a blow), and I want to continue recalibration towards an effective support paradigm. And I do mean support support, not the debuff style we've been pretending counts as support. Not that I want to kill attacking and debuffing entirely either. Coherent song might be the more narratively striking choice, but it focuses the narrative on something I don't particularly want to be the focus of the narrative.
There's some weird arguments for Coherent too, like that the "echoes" described mean a total replication of all tech effects, rather than the explicitly stated +hit and + pen. Or that the other sword is the "anti-mook" sword, despite both weapons having pretty similar profiles in that regard. Both swords require them to land a hit on the enemy before its effect affects the enemy, both ultimately result in more damage to the enemy, and both effects can probably be dispelled. The difference is the parameters and context of the delivery of that extra damage.
Edit: tl;dr: The +attack version of the domain weapon relies on Ling Qi taking specific action to benefit from it, on the timer of Domain Weapon durability; if she's busy with things other than attacking(like setting up field effects or buffing people) prior to the weapon breaking in a combat, then the ability has accomplished nothing.
The debuff version of the sword is less restricted in this regard, as its effects do not rely on specific actions from Ling Qi specifically. It's the more tactically flexible choice, on average.
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Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
It doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to shorten the fights.
That was a White vs Not!White fight, it doesn't really count.
FVM is our signature move though.
The one "you get caught alone, you can't do anything" support? I shouldn't explain why this is a bad idea on the Cai's spylady/diplomat path.
We can reasonably expect to have spirits with us in risky situations.
More than that, I'm not saying that I want support to be all that we can do. I'm saying that I want it to be the bread and butter of our narrative prowess and that the offensive Domain Weapon steps on toes, while the debuff Domain Weapon doesn't in the other direction. With the offensive Domain Weapon, Ling Qi must personally set aside time to personally attack or else the bonus goes wasted in a conflict. With the debuff Domain Weapon, Ling Qi can choose to attack herself to take advantage of its effects, but so can an allied entity, and there's still the minor qi drain besides.
Now, the debuff version isn't superior. It only impairs Sp. Armor, so it doesn't make attacks easier to land, and Ling Qi's basic instrument doots and I think FVM's dissonance don't benefit, on the basis of their targeting physical defenses. It doesn't help allies without damaging spiritual attacks either, but then neither does the offensive version. The debuff version isn't superior, but I do think it's more flexible and can contribute in more scenarios and self-designated combat roles.
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- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Still more interesting to read about than "the SMB continues to stay in the background and debuff even more"
Only if you consider it more interesting than the other actions Ling Qi would be doing that would take the spotlight. It's a valid position, but not one I share.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The purpose of a sword is to enhance our style, not fix a potential issue. It's the mistake Ji Rong made, having a sword that fix his glaring lack of defense and it cost him his victory, as a more offensive weapons buffing his attacks would have let him damage us enough to eke a win.
Picking the more coherent version is focusing upon nukes like FVM ults and FSS. Now, that's a perfectly valid choice, that mix well with our stealth speciality, but I would still prefer to focus on environmental effects debuffing our ennemies and draining them than that. But then again, it's an optic choice.
TL;DR: If you prefer FVM style debuff, pick the eerie, if you prefer FSS style nukes, pick the coherent choice.
- Location
- Brazil
This is diametrically opposed to the advice we were given by people who understand it more than us.
"A glaring lack of X" is an invitation for you to get hard-countered. We aren't in the kiddie pool anymore.
Pretty much everyone told us to focus on a speciality, so I am not sure where you got the very opposite tbh.
Moreover we have no glaring weakness (beside spiritual defense that is).
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
Imo Conditional E rank damage should come from F rank techniques.
If you don't gain a rank in damage dealt when you have a condition to meet then what's the point ? Might as well use a direct damage technique instead and get D rank damage from a D rank technique...
The Singing Mist Blade does not grant the Qi it drains to Ling Qi, it simply removes it from those targets struck.
If it did, it would say something to the effect of 'Qi drained in this way is siphoned into the user'.
Put simply, we need the Qi siphoning from FSS anyway, and the Qi drain aspect of FVM is a necessary component for Traveler's End.
Are there times where we won't spool FVM up all the way? Certainly. But I believe that, under those circumstances, it's even more important to pile on the damage as quickly as possible. Either that or find another way to accomplish the same objective/s.
We do have BGM playing wherever we go, though? It's part of our Domain, has been ever since that breakthrough vision. It's also louder and more audible now, too.
That duel was 'only' to First Blood. A tiny trickle was drawn from Bai Suzhen - barely even a scratch. Though I'm quite sure neither side really brought out their secret tricks, instead using things 'everybody knew'.
It should trigger off of Dissonance and Echoes, provided it has hit targets also in the area of FVM and SEA. Which it should manage.
It is support. It's a different kind of support, but it's support. A 'supporter' simply doesn't do damage directly, instead assisting allies - whether that be with healing, buffs, debuffs, field-shaping effects, or even crafting.
I understand that you mean support in the sense of providing buffs, and we're working on that - although I think the only team buff we're currently planning on training next turn and the turn after is TRF, TRF 6 is potent.
That's incorrect. Eerie supports FSS style nukes just as well as Coherent, it just does so by debuffing enemy S. Armor on hit, rather than enhancing Damage and Penetration, and Coherent supports our AoE deathcloud by empowering Dissonance and Echoes on targets it hits.
This choice is largely a matter of 'how' it does so.
As far as domain weapons in particular are concerned? Bai Meizhen recommended way back when we were looking into them that we pick up an Offensive Domain Weapon, as we didn't need help with our defenses and we had plenty of esoteric effects, though I don't think the latter was mentioned.
Now, with mastery of FSS, our offense is pretty good. Not great, but good. With the next level of SCS, our defenses probably jump up to 'great', as we could use the auto-dodge of the Step to negate the auto-hit of Liling's spear.
As far as I'm concerned, this is largely a flavor choice - 'how' does this enhance our offense? Does it do so by debuffing enemies, or buffing our own attacks? The Singing Mist Blade still isn't properly an offensive domain weapon, as it really doesn't focus on dealing damage, rather it enhances other sources of damage. Which is fine.
... I need to stop wandering away from my laptop to think about my responses, now don't I?
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Why bother having a Flying Sword in the story if it never gets to do anything cool in the narrative?
I don't care about how "mechanically" better the eerie option is.
- Location
- Nightmare realm
I mean, the eerie option seems pretty cool in narrative too.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
That's a background thing, the coherent option has it both mimicking our songs and directly helping us in combat.
- Location
- Brazil
It's more of what is has been doing. Perhaps it could actually matter for anything with eerie, even if it's yet more mook killing, but it will still be a throwaway line here and there.
"It was there, being disturbing" is nowhere near the effect of "and then, out of the mists, it struck, a ringing crescendo emerging from it, culminating into a terrible explosion of frost, an echo of your Caress, taking down the wounded foe before it could trigger its escape talisman, the paper charm falling out of now limp and frost-bitten fingers."
Eerie keeps the sword in the "background buff" box it is currently occupying.
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