Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

DeusExBritannia · Jan 1, 2019

I'm just happy there was an update. I have nothing to complain about.

George · Jan 1, 2019

Erebeal said:
The vote was not "stand in his path and defend Shen Hu/the villagers with OUR LIVES!" it was "ask the affable superior who seems a little positively disposed to us if maybe they could be spared". Him flipping out and murdering us wasn't really a likely outcome at all. The worst that could happen was that he says "no". At that point, we'd have done all we could and absolutely it would be fair to say we weren't obligated to pointlessly commit suicide. If that happened Ling Qi would still be pissed at her lack of power, but she wouldn't have the same reason to feel like she'd betrayed herself.

There's an enormous range of responses between a simple no and murder. I for one think we may have been injured if he refused us.

I do agree that a simple desire for power should have played a role in the narrative.

However, considering no innocents or acquaintances died here, I have to object to the idea that we sacrificed them for power.

Erebeal · Jan 1, 2019

George said:
I do agree that a simple desire for power should have played a role in the narrative.

However, considering no innocents or acquaintances died here, I have to object to the idea that we sacrificed them for power.

Mmm, we didn't no. But if we decided that yes, we made the right decision here and would do it again because we don't want to risk losing possible power gains then I think we would be saying that we would be prepared to do that.

While them being dreams and not "real" does mitigate things, we should not forget that both Ling Qi and Shen Hu treated the dream as real, and the occupants as people. Even if we ignore that, she did at that point certainly consider the dream to be dangerous, and Shen Hu to be in the line of fire. That he was in no real danger was not something she knew at the time she made her decision. IF she decided that going for potential power here and ignoring the safety of her allies/friends was the correct decision then that would absolutely be a statement about the relative value she places on such things, and her willingness to discard her friends' safety and potentially lives in the pursuit of power.

Zeful · Jan 1, 2019

George said:
I for one think we may have been injured if he refused us.

And why would he do that? The narrative of the option was "For shortening my hunt for the oathbreakers and protecting one of my vassals, I would give you a boon," by requesting the boon be the protection of Shen Hu and/or the mortals under his care, she's not automatically saying, "I think you are evil and in the wrong, I spit upon you and your boon," which would get her attacked. In making the request, it sets up a parallel between Ling Qi and The King of The Forest, because in deferring to Ling Qi, Shen Hu elevated her to a position of command authority, not unlike the Deer Man (there is a difference in scale, certainly, but the logical throughline is similar enough), and opens up a line of argumentation for Ling Qi to make her case for why Shen Hu and the Weilu mortals should be spared.

Was The King of The Forest going to change his mind? Unlikely, the mannerisms he displayed, and how the Bloody Moon's plays apparently all play out suggests that the hunt was going to continue and the mortals were going to be killed. But to strike at Ling Qi for exhibiting the same kind of concern he displays to the spirits of the forest without her insulting him through her argument requires that he be a massive hypocrite.

Siual · Jan 1, 2019

Thor's Twin said:
I think that the individuals who are interpreting this series of events as the Bloody Moon trying to impress upon Ling Qi the importance of being selfless are misinterpreting the events. If the lesson that Ling Qi takes from this is that she should be more selfless then I will consider that a failure on our part and on Ling Qi's part in understanding and forging an actual lesson from these events.

The Bloody Moon wasn't happy with Shen Hu because he saw failure and resolved to do better next time. It is more likely that the Bloody Moon was pleased because Shen Hu was willing to do tremendous amounts of violence in order to achieve what he believes needs to be achieved. I would find it hard to believe that the Bloody Moon would reward selflessness, but it is much easier to believe that the Bloody Moon would reward an individual who did this:

during the trial. Which Shen Hu did. He fought and lashed out in grief for the villagers who were slain and then was slain in turn. Shen Hu exemplified this, and so the Bloody Moon was pleased with him.

No, there are more poignant lessons for Ling Qi to learn, and always being selfless is not one of them. While I don't think that Ling Qi's plan was to change the White's plan when meeting him, I think that the words she spoke in his presence and the events afterward do lead to a possible lesson.

"Having the understanding to affect the paths and plans of giants is meaningless if one does not follow through on one's convictions."

We went to meet the King to gain an understanding of the Dream, but when we met him we didn't know what we would do with that understanding. That indecision cost us and made us falter in fear. The Hidden and Grinning Moon are powerful, but can not assist us if we do not actually go through with what we want. There are things to learn here, but I do feel that being selfless is not the correct lesson.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a related note, I do think that some of our problems in decision making was approaching this in the manner of the Hidden Moon. Seeking understanding and knowledge of what the Dream was. There were clear indications from the get-go that this was a Bloody Moon quest, and so approaching this as a quest for knowledge was probably not the wisest of choices, especially on my part.

Seeking knowledge without a care about where the knowledge would lead is probably not a good attitude to have. The Bloody Moon should not be trifled with and seeking knowledge and understanding of a Bloody Moon Trial probably leads directly to the middle of a field of carnage. At least the Bloody Moon gave us the understanding that we so craved, just with a method that was too visceral for Ling Qi to handle.

Rather late to the party, but I feel like your reading of the events as they transpired and the conclusion to be reached is the right one, and resonates with what I thought right after the update. A point though, that some other questers seem to have emphasised above. The situation didn't seem to be merely "enter a Bloody Moon dream, get a bloody cathartic ending", the Bloody Moon set this up so we (and other participants) would likely approach this trial in the wrong way.

yrsillar said:
"I'm sorry Ling Qi," Sixiang said, voice muffled by her hair. "I'm a crappy friend. I shoulda been able to figure out that this was one of her butcher plays...I shoulda paid more attention. I could have asked around, even if she was hiding her mark."

yrsillar said:
"There isn't one," She heard Sixiang mutter bitterly in her ear. "Sorry Ling Qi." To her surprise, she felt their slender arms wrap around her shoulders. Were they still in a dream then? "I failed, I didn't see this bitch's fingerprints all over this until too late."

yrsillar said:
You got through relatively intact though!

The Bloody Moon was actively trying to deceive us (and our Moon spirit) into thinking this wasn't a so-called butcher play (which she seems to have quite the reputation for). In retrospect, some of the themes might perhaps have pointed towards the Bloody Moon being involved, but approaching this mysterious moon dream whose location was indicated on the moon map in a manner consistent with our patrons' preferences and Ling Qi's own nature was I feel still the logical choice. Going by Yrsillars' above comment, the trial seems to be designed to viscerally perturb the participants or even worse (I don't want to imagine the non-intact way of getting through this).

It's a play designed not just to drive home the Bloody Moon's Truth, but doing it in a way that is supposed to be unexpected and especially traumatic by design, going to great lengths to hide its purpose from potential participants, even from cultivators that should be able to figure it out in normal circumstances. There's only so much we could have done to prepare for that.

George · Jan 1, 2019

Erebeal said:
Mmm, we didn't no. But if we decided that yes, we made the right decision here and would do it again because we don't want to risk losing possible power gains then I think we would be saying that we would be prepared to do that.

While them being dreams and not "real" does mitigate things, we should not forget that both Ling Qi and Shen Hu treated the dream as real, and the occupants as people. Even if we ignore that, she did at that point certainly consider the dream to be dangerous, and Shen Hu to be in the line of fire. That he was in no real danger was not something she knew at the time she made her decision. IF she decided that going for potential power here and ignoring the safety of her allies/friends was the correct decision then that would absolutely be a statement about the relative value she places on such things, and her willingness to discard her friends' safety and potentially lives in the pursuit of power.

Yeah, I agree it's fair to say that accepting this decision as right means accepting risking our acquaintance's* lives for power, which also makes it more difficult to make sacrifices to save innocents. There does seem to be a conflict within both the thread and Ling Qi's thoughts between ambition and strong moral fiber.

*(though, I think something a touch stronger like colleague is called for)

Zeful said:
And why would he do that? The narrative of the option was "For shortening my hunt for the oathbreakers and protecting one of my vassals, I would give you a boon," by requesting the boon be the protection of Shen Hu and/or the mortals under his care, she's not automatically saying, "I think you are evil and in the wrong, I spit upon you and your boon," which would get her attacked. In making the request, it sets up a parallel between Ling Qi and The King of The Forest, because in deferring to Ling Qi, Shen Hu elevated her to a position of command authority, not unlike the Deer Man (there is a difference in scale, certainly, but the logical throughline is similar enough), and opens up a line of argumentation for Ling Qi to make her case for why Shen Hu and the Weilu mortals should be spared.

Was The King of The Forest going to change his mind? Unlikely, the mannerisms he displayed, and how the Bloody Moon's plays apparently all play out suggests that the hunt was going to continue and the mortals were going to be killed. But to strike at Ling Qi for exhibiting the same kind of concern he displays to the spirits of the forest without her insulting him through her argument requires that he be a massive hypocrite.

He'd do that because he was already furious and we spurned his gifts. Some people do see asking for something else as spitting on a gift and we can't be certain if he's one of them. He may well be a massive hypocrite, yes, though I don't necessarily agree that this necessitates that.
Keep in mind I'm already only talking about the case where he declines to spare Shen Hu.

Nolrai · Jan 1, 2019

Hangwind said:
Yup. We should have taken the path of Mercy. Anyone voting for Fang or Hide?

YOU DID THIS.

I am actually okay with this. Maybe it's the ...engineer-philosopher in me, but the meta lesson is a very very important one. I don't think we can understand Cai's Kosmos/Unity if we don't understand Kaos/purposeless.

Erebeal · Jan 1, 2019

George said:
He'd do that because he was already furious and we spurned his gifts. Some people do see asking for something else as spitting on a gift and we can't be certain if he's one of them. He may well be a massive hypocrite, yes, though I don't necessarily agree that this necessitates that.
Keep in mind I'm already only talking about the case where he declines to spare Shen Hu.

I would argue though that in terms of relative risk the odds were definitely favoring us. Yes, it wasn't absolutely safe, but we had fairly good reason to think that we could at least ask - especially given that Shen Hu also helped save the tree and thus he kinda owes him as much as us.

In contrast, Shen Hu was totally within the line of fire and in immediate danger. It's one thing to say we wouldn't throw our life away for our friends - which I'm fine with. It's another to say we're not willing to accept any risk to try to save them from clear and present danger.

George · Jan 1, 2019

Erebeal said:
I would argue though that in terms of relative risk the odds were definitely favoring us. Yes, it wasn't absolutely safe, but we had fairly good reason to think that we could at least ask - especially given that Shen Hu also helped save the tree and thus he kinda owes him as much as us.

In contrast, Shen Hu was totally within the line of fire and in immediate danger. It's one thing to say we wouldn't throw our life away for our friends - which I'm fine with. It's another to say we're not willing to accept any risk to try to save them from clear and present danger.

I do agree he was facing more risk than us; I just don't consider him a friend (yet, anyway) and want to carefully limit what I consider unnecessary exposure to risk. I do think if e.g. Han Jian is in clear and present danger, we should accept considerable risk to help him, and that accepting this decision makes Ling Qi question whether she would.

Erebeal · Jan 1, 2019

Another lesson I think worth taking from this though is the important of knowledge. Of knowing the context and people so we know what we can and can't get away with, and what levers we have to pull.

Take that Bloody Moon! Hidden Moon best Moon!

Let us double down on Hidden Moon lessons from this!

Edit: though hmm, is Hidden Moon the right one there?

PrimalShadow · Jan 1, 2019

Arkeus said:
The vote to wait for the King was motivated partly for people wanting the lore, partly for loot, partly because helping villagers was seen as breaking Ling Qi's way. However, Ling Qi's own take on it was 'experience dealing with high stakes'.

I do specifically recall people quoting Shen Hu going "all this high-level stuff isn't for me" and contrasting it with the fact that it WAS for us; so I don't think this is an example of LQ diverging from thread-thought.

Katreus · Jan 1, 2019

Siual said:
The Bloody Moon was actively trying to deceive us (and our Moon spirit) into thinking this wasn't a so-called butcher play (which she seems to have quite the reputation for). In retrospect, some of the themes might perhaps have pointed towards the Bloody Moon being involved, but approaching this mysterious moon dream whose location was indicated on the moon map in a manner consistent with our patrons' preferences and Ling Qi's own nature was I feel still the logical choice. Going by Yrsillars' above comment, the trial seems to be designed to viscerally perturb the participants or even worse (I don't want to imagine the non-intact way of getting through this).

I don't think it can be seriously said that the questers didn't know this was a Bloody Moon dream. First, entry into the dream already shows that the Bloody Moon is watching over the dream:

The moment that they entered the range of the memory would have been obvious even without Sixiang's prodding. One moment they were standing under a bright noonday sun, and the next they were under a night sky, and the forest was burning. Lurid light made the cool dark of night into a mockery of day and plumes of smoke rose into the sky, framing a sullen crimson crescent moon.

Questers start pointing out this rather obvious moon description:

Thor's Twin said:
A hint here might be the moon? I mean, it is a crimson crescent which could either be the grinning or the bloody moon, but given that it is crimson I feel that it is more likely to be bloody. Given that the transition to killings done in the name of justice is a more recent aspect, I feel that the crimson moon might be an indicator that this dream is about bloody vengeance.

Alectai said:
Good Fucking Catch

The Bloody Moon is overhead, and she's the goddess of vengeance and punishment.

And the Ent is calling the Horned Prince Oathbreakers, precisely the kind of things spirits of vengeance are invoked for.

Raising Kittens said:
The Bloody Moon hangs in the sky, a symbol of blood and vengeance - who is seeking those things? The Prince and his family? The Tree and the forest it belongs to? Or both?

Zithinoth said:
It's worth keeping in mind that this is a memory coloured by the Bloody Moon, that we found based on a crit from a Hidden Moon map. The choices we've been given show that influence: the Weilu and the ent options look like a choice between the vengeance and justice aspects of the Bloody Moon, and the search for more info one is very hidden moon. The rewards we get, if any, will probably be influenced by which aspect of the Moon we choose. Unfortunately, despite picking the HM as a patron, LQ is pretty trash at investigation, especially compared to her combat ability. Our best opportunity for doingdreally well and getting a grwag reward is one of the Bloody Moon combat options, and I prefer the ent option, since the oathbreaker comment makes me think it's the justice aspect option, and we did sign up with CRX.

Anyway, people were pretty clear that the BM is hanging overhead and choosing one of the sides was a "BM-type" action. This, of course, became more and more obvious as the dream went on.

And even if she were hiding her presence, who cares? The question that the Moon posed isn't how do cultivators act when they realize they're in a test watched by a proctor. Most people don't commit crimes when a cop is watching them or cheat when a proctor is.

It's how would a cultivator act given this situation and no apparent authority. Does the person steal stuff when there isn't a cop? Does the person cheat when there apparently is no proctor? Do you still divert to leave no friend behind even if it makes a mission harder? In other words, is this portrayed character traits of the cultivator true or is it just something the cultivator pretends to have in front of authority or society? And Ling Qi is finding that ... maybe all those things she told herself - that she could be strong enough to carry her burdens, that she's a good friend, that with more choices, she'd choose to be better, different, not a coward or disloyal - are false, things she could only hold to when it's easy and there's no real danger to her. (And then she fucking hates that choice and partially herself because she hates that person she was.)

Erebeal · Jan 1, 2019

George said:
I do agree he was facing more risk than us; I just don't consider him a friend (yet, anyway) and want to carefully limit what I consider unnecessary exposure to risk. I do think if e.g. Han Jian is in clear and present danger, we should accept considerable risk to help him, and that accepting this decision makes Ling Qi question whether she would.

Mmm, I would suggest though that being completely unwilling to stick her neck out for allies in any way is unlikely to serve her well socially, politically, or in her pursuit of power.

minimap_op · Jan 1, 2019

I think the risk vs reward is more complicated then it's being treated as. There's chance of success, what the success actually gives us, chance of failure, the types of consequences for failure, and also what you're giving up even making that choice in the first place. If you think there's little chance to convince the King to spare Shen Hu and that Shen Hu isn't in too much risk anyway so there's little gain then the fact that failure has relatively minor consequences doesn't really matter because the choice isn't worth giving up the other options in the first place. Honestly if this hadn't hit Ling Qi so hard emotionally I'd probably be thinking my risk assessment was straight out right as I'm not seeing anything textually that makes me think the King was more susceptible to being swayed than I initially assumed, but from a more meta gamey perspective the outcome makes me think asking would have either worked or resulted in no real consequences and with a reward at the end from either the Moon or some sort of Way affirmation bonus.

Nolrai · Jan 2, 2019

Would it? I think we might well have failed either way..at least by the time the King showed up. After all we might have spared our "friend", but the village was doomed.

I do think being more daring might have pleased Blood Moon...but no. I don't actually think so. The blood moon didn't reject us for our choices _here_ I don't think, she rejected us because we aren't bloody vengeance, that's not our thing.

Maybe I am taking her words too strongly.

SITB · Jan 2, 2019

Katreus said:
I'd say there's actually two critiques the Bloody Moon offered, and that some people are conflating them. (I am ignoring arguments that recognize this was a backsliding and narratively good, etc etc., because those are playing in the sandbox of recognizing the character history. This is solely to people who don't agree there was a backsliding in the first place.)

The first is that Ling Qi isn't a BM-type cultivator; that's fine and most people agree that Ling Qi isn't (and it'd be unlikely Ling Qi'd develop in that way). But people are using that to disregard BM's other critique, which is that Ling Qi didn't know conviction in her chosen Path. That's generic to all cultivators: be true to yourself. Failing to be true to oneself makes the cultivator feel like shit and makes them waver on their Path (i.e. get debuffed).

There's a toxic combination of: 1) we didn't want the BM anyway (irrelevant; BM's second critique is something all cultivators must show if they want to progress on their Path); or 2) Ling Qi shouldn't think of that as her Path (ignores Ling Qi's actual in-text thoughts and the history of the character arc).

The second response is more a meta-argument wherein some people want to drag Ling Qi closer to their line of thinking, but Ling Qi has always been a defined character with her own character arcs and thoughts. Regardless of what some people may think Ling Qi should feel, Ling Qi textually feels that not asking for Shen Hu's safety (note that she doesn't give a fig about the mortals so the save mortals choice was a stretch for her, but she did care re Shen Hu) meant she had defaulted back to the person she was as a street rat, someone she disliked and rejected in Zhou Test part 2 (i.e. that she could change and make different decisions). That she had become "disloyal" and a "coward" like she was accused of in that test.

We help guide her in her actions, and her character as now was somewhat guided by such decisions in FOD ... but she's Green now. She's set her domain and laid down the Path. Changing it is probably going to mean extreme dissonance with attendant corollary issues on cultivation. Switching Paths is hard! Also it's going to waver back and forth with even more dissonance because quite frankly, a significant group of people like that Ling Qi attempted to move away from her street rat origins (with various success).

It's funny how often the thread recycles variations of the character beats though (Elder Zhou test 2 re spider spirit conversation, which led into choosing to stand by Bai Meizhen in the Thunderdome ambush; failing to go to Li Suyin after the initial Thunderdome fight, leading to Li Suyin's permanent injury, which meant that Ling Qi insisted on helping Gu Xiulan in Growing Paints) - although perhaps a good portion of the voters now weren't there for the original choices so it's a new lesson.

I was going to agree with most of this post except the BM critiquing Ling Qi, but then I went to reread the update and found out you were correct.

The Bloody Moon gave two critiques, the first one in response to being asked about what was the point of the dream:

"You have been coddled child, if you imagine that all or even most things hold a native purpose. It is the duty of humankind to forge meaning from the blind mechanics of the world."

She states that this isn't some elder test where Ling Qi needs to divine their intention to understand the lesson (and maybe get rewarded), Ling Qi should make choices because she thinks they are correct.

EDIT: This isn't even condemning Ling Qi for being wishy-washy, it's a direct refutation of Ling Qi casting blame at the Bloody Moon for Ling's own choices.

(In a meta way this also rebukes the whole 'perfect run' nonsense in the thread, Ling Qi should make choices that she thinks correct, not to please some outside observer).

The second critique the Bloody Moon said as she was leaving:

Justice is something only humans can define. If you disapprove, then do not merely complain. It is such a troublesome mantle your kind have saddled me with."

Which, fair enough, Ling Qi doesn't care about justice so if she wants to complain about injustice she needs to start caring?

Admittedly, Ling Qi didn't complain about injustice inasmuch as complain the vengeance aspect and what it led to (and being drafted to partake it through her own choices).

DeusExBritannia · Jan 2, 2019

Erebeal said:
Hidden Moon best Moon!

Not Dreaming or Grinning? FVM and SCS have been our bread and butter since nearly the beginning; I don't even think we have any Arts associated with the Hidden Moon, other than the one we're going to train soon. The Hidden Moon may have given them to us, but I've always figured we were more of a musician and thief than a scholar.

Arkeus · Jan 2, 2019

Erebeal said:
Mmm, we didn't no. But if we decided that yes, we made the right decision here and would do it again because we don't want to risk losing possible power gains then I think we would be saying that we would be prepared to do that.

While them being dreams and not "real" does mitigate things, we should not forget that both Ling Qi and Shen Hu treated the dream as real, and the occupants as people. Even if we ignore that, she did at that point certainly consider the dream to be dangerous, and Shen Hu to be in the line of fire. That he was in no real danger was not something she knew at the time she made her decision. IF she decided that going for potential power here and ignoring the safety of her allies/friends was the correct decision then that would absolutely be a statement about the relative value she places on such things, and her willingness to discard her friends' safety and potentially lives in the pursuit of power.

Erebeal said:
In contrast, Shen Hu was totally within the line of fire and in immediate danger. It's one thing to say we wouldn't throw our life away for our friends - which I'm fine with. It's another to say we're not willing to accept any risk to try to save them from clear and present danger.

Erebeal said:
Mmm, I would suggest though that being completely unwilling to stick her neck out for allies in any way is unlikely to serve her well socially, politically, or in her pursuit of power.

There is context that's important there, though. While Ling Qi definitely saw it as her not doing right to Shen Hu and we should be wary of such things in the future, it's complicated by the fact that what was happening to Shen Hu was actually a basic trial run of what he would do as a Baron's son later on. He himself comments on this.

This is back to "Arkeus thinks differently than Ling Qi, especially because there is distance", but it's hard for me to consider the "Save Shen Hu" option as one that's "not sacrificing Shen Hu" rather than "Negate all risks for Shen Hu", with a distinct "Risks in the sect are not deadly and are good for growth".

It's like how Meizhen has to let Ling Qi go to Zeqing tribulations, or to Dreaming Moon parties, or that Ling Qi ultimately has to accept Xiulan chaining tribulation for power. Yes, in this case, Ling Qi did feel like she was betraying Shen Hu by not speaking up... but my own instincts are "speaking up for Shen Hu would have just meant shorting him of a trial".

Hell, if people are correct that he got a care package from Bloody Moon, he likely wouldn't have had one that way.

Asael · Jan 2, 2019

I think we'll see exactly what LQ thinks about all this next update.

I'd rather wait than see people project on the character, tbh.

XavierIII · Jan 2, 2019

This trial serves wonderfully as a contrast to the on we took with Meizhen in the first thread. Like, in both of them we had to choose whether we should go for the boon or help someone. It's interesting to see what Ling Qi does with more at risk.

Thanks for the update! It was very good!

archangis · Jan 2, 2019

Arkeus said:
There is context that's important there, though. While Ling Qi definitely saw it as her not doing right to Shen Hu and we should be wary of such things in the future, it's complicated by the fact that what was happening to Shen Hu was actually a basic trial run of what he would do as a Baron's son later on. He himself comments on this.

This is back to "Arkeus thinks differently than Ling Qi, especially because there is distance", but it's hard for me to consider the "Save Shen Hu" option as one that's "not sacrificing Shen Hu" rather than "Negate all risks for Shen Hu", with a distinct "Risks in the sect are not deadly and are good for growth".

It's like how Meizhen has to let Ling Qi go to Zeqing tribulations, or to Dreaming Moon parties, or that Ling Qi ultimately has to accept Xiulan chaining tribulation for power. Yes, in this case, Ling Qi did feel like she was betraying Shen Hu by not speaking up... but my own instincts are "speaking up for Shen Hu would have just meant shorting him of a trial".

Hell, if people are correct that he got a care package from Bloody Moon, he likely wouldn't have had one that way.

At no point was this the reasonnement of either voters or ling qi. Beside this isn't a sect trial so the entire reasonnement feels flat.

Asael said:
I think we'll see exactly what LQ thinks about all this next update.

I'd rather wait than see people project on the character, tbh.

I am not sure on what you want LQ feelings on as she already reacted to most things in the update.

yrsillar · Jan 2, 2019

"I do not believe your choices were in error," as Bai Meizhen spoke, Ling Qi looked up from her lap to glance at her friend. "Save entering the situation to begin with."

Meizhen was seated neatly beside her in the little audience box overseeing the challenge arena. She was glad that her friend had reminded her that she needed to be here today. She had lost track of time in cultivating, frustrated with the sluggish response of her qi as she tried to build toward the next stage. Of course, Meizhen had perceived her distress, and eventually, Ling Qi disclosed the events of the dream.

"I would have thought you'd agree with the Bloody Moon," Ling Qi muttered, resting her chin on her hand, only to wince a moment later. Those were ill thought out words.

Meizhen frowned at her and let out an irritated huff. "Cease that," she replied. "That creature is a great spirit, and its words hardly condemned you. That is not what is troubling you."

"...Yeah," Ling Qi agreed. "Have you see people die like that before? I just… I can't…."

Her friend turned her eyes to the challenge area below, where the equipment was being set up, heavy writings desks and shelves of heavy tomes were being dragged out and arranged in artful symmetry. "I have," Bai Meizhen replied softly. "Observing records of battles is part of a young Bai's education, and I have seen the aftermath of towns lost. Grandfather did not coddle us in ensuring that we know our duty."

"Heh, are the Bai really not so heartless after all?" Ling Qi asked wryly, trying to put the images out of her head. "Well, compared to some other old clans," she muttered darkly.

Meizhen drummed her fingers on her seats armrest for a moment before answering. "We know our duty, even if most do not pretend to do more than pay lip service to certain aspects. Mortals and lesser cultivators are… like children. It is an unfit guardian who allows them to be dragged under by lake beasts."

"What they do to each other is fine though," Ling Qi laughed. She wasn't being fair, but she still felt burnt out. Looking down at the set up, she couldn't help but wonder just what sort of challenge this was, that her liege was participating in.

"The metaphor breaks down," Meizhen admitted without pause. "And yet, the sort of deliberate slaughter you spoke of at the end is the purview of barbarians. I can offer you little save that you will become accustomed to such violence, this world is cruel. If it bothers you, it is your duty as a cultivator to prevent its occurrence in reality insofar as you are able."

"And now you sound like her," Ling Qi replied, looking up.

Meizhen met her gaze steadily. "The Bai are associated with that moon from time to time," she said dryly, with a touch of a smile. "More importantly, that is not the core of your trouble."

"Since when are you so perceptive about this kind of thing," Ling Qi grumbled good naturedly.

"One must strive for excellence, when carving ones niche," Bai Meizhen replied primly. "You regret what you see as cowardice, do you not."

Ling Qi didn't answer turning her face away. She hated what she had been made to do, she hated the nightmares it had brought her, but those horrible scenes were, as Meizhen and even the spirit had said, something that she could draw determination from. The hunt had been repellent and evil on every level. Whatever justifications had existed for it were nothing in the face of what it had wrought. She would strive to never see something like that again.

No, what really shook her was that she hadn't even tried, that for all that she claimed to have grown above sacrificing friends and allies for her own wellbeing, when faced with impossible odds, she hadn't even had the courage to try. It would be one thing, she thought, if she had at least tried to persuade that monster away from Shen Hu and been rebuffed, she would have just been angry and determined instead of… this. "How can you call it anything else?" She asked without looking up.

"There is nothing wrong with prioritizing one's own self," Meizhen replied, giving her a cool look. "So long as it is not ones absolute highest consideration. Filial duty, above all other things must come first, else we be no more than snapping, clawing beasts, but…" she shook her head. "Why does that trouble you so?"

"It just feels like I'm sliding backward," Ling Qi said quietly, clasping her hands. "I… would I have stood by and remained silent if it was you there?"

Meizhen fell silent as the figure of an Elder Ling Qi did not know blinked into view below, at the overseers table. "I trust you would not. Ling Qi, it seems to me that you must make it clear to yourself, where your limits lie, your trouble lies in a lack of surety."

Ling Qi did not reply, as the challenge was starting. Wanting a break from her churning thoughts, she turned her attention to the young looking Elder below. He was a squat, dour looking man, with thinning hair and a wide face, and he exuded a sort of….pressure that seemed to drain the very color from his surroundings. He wore plain silver robes and a ministers cap, and a pair of tiny spectacles, all worn with utterly perfect symmetry

"We now begin the challenge given by Disciple Eight Hundred and Ten, Cai Renxiang, to Disciple Seven Hundred Ninety Five, Liu Su," his voice was drier than a desert, and half as raspy. It seemed to absorb sound an attention alike, fixing Ling Qi's attention on the dour man and silencing the murmurs from the other viewing boxes and general stands. "In accordance with Sect Rules, Disciple Liu has chosen a match of administrative competence, in lieu of a personal duel."

Ling Qi's eyes flicked briefly to her liege's target, a handsome boy a year or two older than them, who stood firmly in the second stage of green and bronze realms. He looked calm and collected, confident even, she was too far to feel much of his aura, but there was a faint papery scent to it.

Her attention returned to the Elder then, yanked back by his droning voice. "In the constructed scenario, both disciples have been given the task of reorganizing a county whose regulations have fallen out sync with modern imperial law. The disciples will then be tasked with organizing the county's human resources for military mobilization. Disciple performance will be judged based upon time, accuracy, and minimizing efficiency losses, as judged by I, Elder Meng. Seat yourselves and prepare to begin."

Ling Qi watched, bemused as the 'challenge' began. Liu Su was... Impressive, given the dull nature of the challenge she supposed. She felt the qi fluctuations as his domain expanded out, and paper and writing implements began to fly. Heavy reference tomes of law fluttered like overweight butterflies, their pages flipping rapidly as form after form was filled in by flying inkbrushes, while Liu Su sat with his hands folded neatly in his lap, his eyes half lidded and fluttering like a man on the verge of sleep.
Cai Renxiang on the other hand, was much less visibly impressive. Yet, the stern girl did not so much as glance at the tomes of reference she had been provided, and although she wielded only a single inkbrush, her hands were a literal blur that only resolved if Ling Qi focused quite hard. She was pretty sure she caught the sound of ink and paper sizzling, from the speed with which her liege wrote.

Yet despite all that, they were still watching two people fill in paperwork, and it was difficult indeed for that to be attention grabbing. Ling Qi found her thoughts turning back to herself and what Meizhen had said. She didn't know if she could agree with her friend. It seemed cowardly, like she was just making excuses for herself. Yet… could she really call Meizhen a coward, by saying that of her advice?

She had decided that she didn't want to betray friends, but where did that line lie? Who was a friend, and what counted as betrayal?

She was still wrestling with that question when the match was called. Liu Su had finished a bit faster, but apparently his work could not match the quality of her liege's efficiency and total lack of errors.

She would have to congratulate her, Ling Qi supposed. She would have to make sure she didn't get left behind too. She couldn't put off her challenge research and intelligence gathering just to navel gaze… there would be time for that later.

In addition to researching the other tournament winners and potential challengers from below. Ling Qi chose to focus her research on…

[] Disciples 815-825
[] Disciples 802-814

For those who have not read the inner sect rules, rank is fixed in the month that you attain a new rank, but in proceeding months your rank can and will degrade as others pass you and you shift down in the resulting rank adjustments.

Inner Sect reward tiers will now be found on the front page under Inner Sect rules and rankings

065tdsa · Jan 2, 2019

yrsillar said:
"We now begin the challenge given by Disciple Eight Hundred and Ten, Cai Renxiang, to Disciple Seven Hundred Ninety Five, Liu Su,"

Huh, Cai's ready to challenge already? I mean her mom lit a fire under her, but still, i'd expect her to want to brush up her combat arts-

yrsillar said:
"In accordance with Sect Rules, Disciple Liu has chosen a match of administrative competence, in lieu of a personal duel."

That poor, doomed fool! I don't want to see!

Someone did her research before picking a target.

fictionfan · Jan 2, 2019

065tdsa said:
Huh, Cai's ready to challenge already? I mean her mom lit a fire under her, but still, i'd expect her to want to brush up her combat arts-

That poor, doomed fool! I don't want to see!

Someone did her research before picking a target.

Well Cai really doesn't need to worry about people challenging her if she can pick that as the duel. I have a hard time imagining anyone beating her at that.

Swimmingly · Jan 2, 2019

I really like the way that Ling Qi is forced to question herself and develop as a character here. It gives the Inner Sect a very different feel, narratively, than the Outer Sect, and it makes it clear that we'll have to be truly careful and introspective in order to succeed here.

Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Red-White-Black-White

weak to fangs

plsnerf

weak to fangs

Red-White-Black-White

Crazy cat guy

Please sir, may I have some Meows?