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Also, it doesn't help that martial arts, at the end of the day, were originally invented as a way to put down people who tried to hurt you. There's a manga (whose name I can't currently recall) that goes into this, pointing out that a lot of early martial arts are pretty much built around destroying the meat-scaffolding of your opponent as quickly and efficiently as possible, with their survival and long-term function being not so much an 'afterthought' as 'not even a thought'.

In the early days of martial arts, you didn't use inner peace and the love of the Buddha to pacify enemies - you broke them, because it was a time where things like mercy and compassion generally got you, and your community, killed by your less-principled neighbors.

Tai Lung was just born into the wrong era - to be honest, I'd interpret the Dragon Scroll's message as originally being something more like "You want to protect your people? Then stop doubting and trust in your abilities, or else you're doing those dickass bandits' jobs for them."
 
Twenty years spent in solitary confinement without even a hint at social contact or any attempt to reform him is hella extenuating circumstances for making poor decisions, though.

I mean, imagine if Shifu had at least actually visited him at any time during those two decades spent almost completely alone and paralyzed and offered up his apology for his poor teaching and parenting then. If all else failed, Tai Lung could have at least ended up in a slightly more productive mindset.

then again Shifu was also a prisoner of his pride, that is most evident with how he trained Tigress.
 
I did not know that.

Didn't see the clip myself, but I'll grab the quote for you.

In the flashback in the first movie, when we see Shifu trying to fight Tai Lung, there's a scene where Tai Lung attacks Shifu's legs with a backhand, and a crack sound can heard. When we flash forward to him training Tigress, he's holding that reed/bamboo stick/whatever it is that he uses as a cane sometimes. Then you realise what that crack was: Shifu's legs breaking. A side strike to the legs like what Tai Lung used is fairly damaging if done right. Couple in their relative sizes, and you realise Tai Lung crippled his old master with a single strike.
  • This troper just went back to watch that, and noticed also that after Oogway takes Tai Lung down, Shifu crawls toward him, and in the following training scene with Tigress, he has a very slight limp.
  • Watch Shifu throughout the film and you'll notice he always has that limp.

I'll see if I can find the video too.
 


Here's a youtube video of Tai-lung's childhood flashback. Note the part where he fights Shifu. Note the backhand and cracking sound, and the fact that Shifu doesn't stand back up after that hit.
Also, when he's correcting Tigress's stance in the bit just after that, he's carrying a cane and seems to walk with a limp.

It's interesting how all the parts seem to be there, but the movie never goes out of it's way to spell it out.

The fridge-logic page also has some stuff about relative sizes of different characters. (Everyone except Tai Lung, Tigress and Po are about one-fifth their size) and different fighting styles.

Fairly interesting analysis of the final fight between Tai Lung and Po.

I mean, I'm not sure how much of that stuff was actually intentional, given it'd go over most viewer's heads, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Just don't get lost. It is a TVtropes article.

edit:



Second scene between Tai Lung and Shifu here.

Between these two clips, you've got pretty much Tai Lung's entire backstory, for people who didn't watch the movie.
 
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How did he train Tigress? I've only seen the first movie and a few episodes of the show.

like tai lung but with baggage of him being seen as better, her receiving no affection from Shifu, and getting screwed over just as hard as before. (see 2:00 on the 1st video above)

her in 2nd and 3rd... MUCH more mellow. (not seen show)

btw 2nd one is worth a watch for the villain. also got me teary eyed, which isnt easy.

EDIT:
 
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With Fool's Canon...

Will we be seeing Omakes of version of Paul in other universes or Paul visiting those other dimensions instead of the ones shown in the canon Fool's Canon?
 
What kind of serpent does OL manifest as? A viper? A cobra?

OL: "Greetings."
Mistress Viper: "Oh baby!!! "
Everyone: o_O?
Mistress Viper: :oops:

Or it could be amusing if Mistress Viper was bigoted against cobras or pythons.

 
I'm surprised there hasn't been more commentary about the fact that Paul(phidian?) heavily implies that Tai Lung is THIS CLOSE to being Avarice Enlightened just through his own desires and his training.

You called me, mortal.

I flow in a wide circle around his island, nearly forming a full circle. In a setting where an action like this might more readily be expected from a Chinese-style Dragon, I manage yet again to subvert genre expectations with my Snake body.

I did no such thing.

You burn with desire. Your soul resonates with the orange light.

I did no such thing.

How can you have come as far as you have, yet remain so ignorant?


Also, I think this trip...isn't actually Ambush Bug's doing. Oh, he certainly took the brakes off the Crazy Train, but he did so while OL was in mid-recharge and thus connected to the Lantern and the Ophidian within. And while he might be a master trickster and reality warper, an Entity he is not, and I think everyone's favorite snek hijacked said Crazy Train. Given that each stop on its course has been to someone heavily invested with want:

Azula wanted her father's approval - and when he betrayed her, to burn the world.
Nightmare Moon wanted equal standing with her sister.
Dr. Blight wanted to unquestionably beat the Planeteers.
And Tai Lung wants the Dragon Warrior's Scroll, so he can be the greatest Kung Fu warrior.

Each allowed that desire to consume them to the point where it overwhelmed everything else - and in the first set Paul all but explictly says the Ophidian guided him there because of that. So while Ambush Bug enabled the Trip Through Paul's Future Recruiting Spree, he lost control of the tiller a long time ago.

Now why it became Paul and Ophi-Chan's Excellent Adventure to collect orange light users with attitude is a good question.
 
I'm surprised there hasn't been more commentary about the fact that Paul(phidian?) heavily implies that Tai Lung is THIS CLOSE to being Avarice Enlightened just through his own desires and his training.
I think it was more of a comment on how he's ignoring his real desires. I doubt the guy is anything close to being enlightened in the way of avarice, he just wants something real bad, but won't admit it to himself.
 
Azula wanted her father's approval - and when he betrayed her, to burn the world.
Nightmare Moon wanted equal standing with her sister.
Dr. Blight wanted to unquestionably beat the Planeteers.
And Tai Lung wants the Dragon Warrior's Scroll, so he can be the greatest Kung Fu warrior.
Actually, they all four wanted the same thing: acknowledgement of what they believe is their place in the world.

Consider what, when you get down to it, Ambush Bug is refusing to give Paul.
 
I certainly do hope Paul brings something home out of all this. A new recruit, the ability to fabricate new rings with less work... I'm not picky.
 
like tai lung but with baggage of him being seen as better, her receiving no affection from Shifu, and getting screwed over just as hard as before. (see 2:00 on the 1st video above)

her in 2nd and 3rd... MUCH more mellow. (not seen show)

btw 2nd one is worth a watch for the villain. also got me teary eyed, which isnt easy.

EDIT:

I feel like the movies focused on the wrong character. Tigress is so much more interesting than Po.
 
Also, it doesn't help that martial arts, at the end of the day, were originally invented as a way to put down people who tried to hurt you. There's a manga (whose name I can't currently recall) that goes into this, pointing out that a lot of early martial arts are pretty much built around destroying the meat-scaffolding of your opponent as quickly and efficiently as possible, with their survival and long-term function being not so much an 'afterthought' as 'not even a thought'.

In the early days of martial arts, you didn't use inner peace and the love of the Buddha to pacify enemies - you broke them, because it was a time where things like mercy and compassion generally got you, and your community, killed by your less-principled neighbors.

Tai Lung was just born into the wrong era - to be honest, I'd interpret the Dragon Scroll's message as originally being something more like "You want to protect your people? Then stop doubting and trust in your abilities, or else you're doing those dickass bandits' jobs for them."
Talking about Holyland?
 
Kung Fu Leopard (part 2)
Temple
The Valley of Peace


I watch as the Temple's roof explodes, Tai Lung and his former master shooting up into the air to strike at and wrestle with each other. Tai Lung appears to get the edge as they crash back down, making a new hole.

Honestly thought I'd have more time than this.

"All I ever did, I did to make you proud!"

I'll step in… Ah, slither in, if it looks like he's actually about to kill the chap, but even when they were on good terms they mostly related to each other by hitting each other.

"Tell me how proud you are, Shifu!"

I get close enough to see through one of the holes in the wall their fighting has created.

"Tell me!"

His hands are burning with blue fire. Burning oil from one of the braziers.

"TELL MEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

Both sets of knuckles strike his diminutive opponent and send him flying backwards towards the pool at the end of the room. Okay, last… I flick out my tongue. Dumplings? Where..? Oh, the Panda's coming back. Huh. Hadn't really paid him much attention before, but he's gained quite a bit of mental focus from somewhere. Hm. Having Tai Lung sent back to prison would probably cause my task to flip over into 'flat out impossible', but it would be best if I didn't reveal myself.

"I… I have always been proud of you." The Red Panda pushes himself up slightly from where he fell. "From the first-" He pants. "-moment, I've been… Proud of you."

Tai Lung stalks closer. But.. some of the passion that drove him to assault his father figure appears to be waning.

"And it was my pride… That blinded me. I loved you too much to see what you were becoming." Shaking with effort, he turns his head to face Tai Lung. "What I… Was turning you into. I'm s-. I'm sorry."

What do you want?

Tai Lung's eyes dim. For a moment he stands like a statue, motionless and lifeless.

Then he falls to his knees, rocking back and forth slightly as conflicting emotions surge through him.

"I'm sorry, master."

Shifu blinks, taking a few more panting breaths as he tries to work out what just happened. "Ah… What did you say?"

"I'm sorry, master."

There's a quaver in his voice.

"Oh. Okay." Shifu blinks again and nods. Then he frowns, staring up at hulking foster son. "What?"

"I'm sorry, master." Tai Lung drops onto all fours, choking back his tears. "I…" He crawls towards his not-entirely-up-to-speed former mentor. "I thought that was what I was for. I thought that was what you were training me for. Everything… Everything that was worth anything about me, I had because of you… I thought-" Shifu is looking a little nervous now, as the clearly distraught Snow Leopard still towers over him. "-that I needed to validate that by…" He sniffs. "By being the absolute greatest Kung Fu warrior that exists. By becoming the Dragon Warrior. And then… And then when Oogway turned me away…" He collapses onto his chest, hands gripping his head. "I thought I failed you. And you didn't.. care…"

Nervously, Shifu sits up and then cautiously reaches forwards with his right hand to gently pat Tai Lung on the head. "There. There?"

Tai Lung darts forwards, wrapping his arms around his former master's back and pressing his face against the man's chest as he bawls into his robe. Shifu freezes completely still for a moment, then sighs and goes back to patting him. "I have no idea what is happening any longer, but-"

"Waaahahaheeeeeh!"

"-I would rather not have to fight you and I am not having to fight you. So, I will not question it." Another sigh, deeper this time as his immediate need for oxygen is dealt with. "I should have pressed Oogway for answers-"

"Ughuhhuhuhrrr!"

"-then and there, if only to find out where I was going wrong in my teachings. And, now I think I will have to apologise to Master Tigress too, for the way I treated her."

Tai Lung makes an unsettling noise, like he's got an awful lot of snot built up but doesn't want to blow it out over his master's robes.

"Oh, hey!" The Panda stands at the smashed in doors of the temple. For a moment, he beams at them. Then he doubles over, panting hard from his exertion in running all of the way up the mountain. Well, he is a big Panda, with.. proportionally short legs. "You guys made up! Whaw, aheh." He sighs with exaggerated relief. "I thought I was actually going to have to fight you for a while there!"

Shifu taps his son on the head, then gives him a slight push. Tai Lung pulls back a little, rising into a hunched all-fours position as he turns to see who it is.

"'Cause, y'know, even with the Scroll, I…" He holds his right hand up in a request for time while he bends over, gasping for air. "I've only actually been… Studying Kung Fu… For a couple of weeks…"

Tai Lung stares at him in utter bewilderment. "This is the Dragon Warrior."

Shifu closes his eyes again, nodding. "I know."

"I feel-"

"I know."

"-not, less bad-"

"I know."

"-but-."

"I know."

"You guys have made up, right?"

Tai Lung is still too bewildered to respond coherently. Shifu looks him over, then returns his attention to the Panda. "He isn't on a rampage anymore, and he's been in prison for twenty years for his crimes." He takes a deep breath as he attempts to centre himself. "So I suppose we have."

"Oh. Cool." The Panda waddles forwards towards them. "In that case-" He pulls the Dragon Scroll out of his back pocket. "-I guess there's really no harm in letting you read-" Shifu starts frantically shaking his head and waving his arms back and forth across his chest in an emphatic 'no' gesture. "-the scroll after all." He notices Shifu. "What?"

Tai Lung can't bring himself to look at it. He shakes his head. "I-I don't want to read it. I don't deserve-."

The Panda holds the rolled up scroll out in front of him. "Hey, it's cool." Tai Lung starts backing away. "I don't think it's about whether you deserve it or not, really. Because, y'know, heh." He shakes his head. "I sure didn't."

"No. No." He raises his right hand to block his view of it. "I don't want to see it!"

The Panda shakes his head. "I think it's like one of those zen puzzle things? Y'know, the answer's something you can't understand until your head's in exactly the right place."

"Po!"

Oh, that's his name.

"I didn't get it when I first saw it. And, ahh…" He leans forwards, mantling his mouth with his free hand to stage-whisper. "Between you and me, I don't think Master Shifu did either."

"I don't want to see it!"

"It's fine, look." Po unrolls it and holds.. the blank but surprisingly reflective scroll out in front of him. A mirrored surface. Oh, that's clever. And a bit stupid.

Tai Lung puts his left hand over his eyes, waving Po away with his right as he comes closer. "Stay away!"

"Here."

"No!"

"Here." Po knocks his outstretched arm aside and tries waving the scroll in his face.

"No! I don't want it!"

"Here. You gotta-" Po tries pulling the hand over Tai Lung's face off so he can wave the scroll at his eyes. "-see-" Tai tries to turn away, but since he can't see where he's going he trips and falls onto his back. "-what's on-" Tai tries rolling onto his front, a motion Po converts into a confused roll which results in Tai lying on Po's vast stomach with the scroll in his face. "-this!"

Tai Lung blinks, squeezes his eyes closed. Too late. He's already seen it. His eyes come open again, staring madly at the surface.

"See what I mean."

"I DID! ALL THIS! FOR A BLANK..! For a blank scroll…"

"Guess you… Kinda did. The way I see it…"

Okay, I think he's done. So that's all of them. Past me, you need to go and deal with Ambush Bug now. It's been a while, but I seem to remember it going something like this
 
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