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Like, there is absolutely nothing he could learn from anyone else and the only reason he cares at all about what other people think is so that he can "correct" their thought processes.

I felt the same way on that line, but Clark's last line has pretty much the same tone.

'We can't teach you if you won't listen.' isn't really the response you give after-the-fact to a situation in which your group was explicitly in the wrong.

Nabu being accepted into the justice league wasn't a situation that OL needed to be 'taught' about, it was something they were doing that was wrong. If he'd approached them then they could have tried to justify it to him, but they couldn't have just 'answered his questions' because he'd have still had to go out and solve the problem.
 
I just... where is this coming from? The ring is about avarice, greed, getting what you want. Does that somehow translate into having a god complex and seeing everyone else as literally wrong and deficient if they don't think like him or have different goals?

Paul has an unusual perspective in some areas.

I don't think wanting to correct the thinking that put avoiding risking Nabu's life above stopping his crimes is deeply arrogant or blue/orange morality, though.

Superman seems to espouse that all decent, reasonable people would fall into line with the idea that Nabu being a superhero makes him more important than his crimes, which seems further removed from conventional morality. (And, of course, he wants to correct the thinking of those who disagree in much the same way.)
 
Where are my manners.
Where are my manners?

I see why you would be concerned...it's reasonable that you'd be concerned
Repeated wording.

and gently leads

one of the isles
one of the aisles

And how do you know John.
And how do you know John?

and as such represent
and as such they represent

a new phenomena
a new phenomenon

their increasingly public roles...makes
their increasingly public roles...make

fight besides people
fight beside people

I got him a new ring
I thought it was still his old ring, just a new personal lantern.

didn't know there weren't
didn't know there were

A couple more

sub space
subspace

dolmen gate
I think Dolmen should be capitalised?

it a hammer
is a hammer

leave if for
leave it for
 
Where are my manners?
I see why you would be concerned...it's reasonable that you'd be concerned
Repeated wording.
and gently leads
one of the isles
one of the aisles
And how do you know John.
And how do you know John?
Thank you, corrected.
and as such they represent
No, I think that's okay.
a new phenomena
a new phenomenon
their increasingly public roles...makes
their increasingly public roles...make
fight beside people
I got him a new ring
I thought it was still his old ring, just a new personal lantern.
didn't know there were
A couple more
sub space
subspace
dolmen gate
I think Dolmen should be capitalised?
it a hammer
is a hammer
leave if for
leave it for
Thank you, corrected.
 
I mean, is it really madness if you're perfectly capable of being rational and consistent? Paul isn't mad, he has a blue/orange morality. He's at least as sane as the average person, its just that he has different fundamental values than the average person.
Okay, just had to laugh, the orange lantern apprenticed to the blue lantern has blue/orange morality.
 
I just... where is this coming from? The ring is about avarice, greed, getting what you want. Does that somehow translate into having a god complex and seeing everyone else as literally wrong and deficient if they don't think like him or have different goals?
OL is a real human being surrounded by comic book characters. So not only does he know their history, how they thing and tend to make decisions, he also knows all the sensible things that they could have done, but never have (Status quo is god and all). Beyond that, he's brought up numerous either good ideas, or just sensible options, only to have people stare at him, utterly gobsmacked because they NEVER thought of that.
 
really good at fixing things with a hammer.
This reminds me of one scene with GL John (either after the Green-Yellow war, or just after Darkest Night - I forget which) is with one of the new GL recruits. They are stopping a war (between a profit based race, and one that focuses around Nomadic wanderers -don't understand capitalism) - the new recruit goes in with force.
John, after running the data, shows the Profit-centric race how this will cost them, and the other how they can get them to respect their traditions...
I believe his line is something like 'when you have the Universe's greatest Hammer, everything starts to look like a Nail'...
 
If you're a typical human being? Yes. Humans naturally want to believe we're right, and sadly we're all too capable of failing to give due consideration to, ignoring or even outright denying facts that don't align with our worldview. Now to give Paul his due, he's very smart and he's been right about a lot of things, but that can lead to overconfidence which has its own dangers - even if you're not plugged into a feedback loop of mind-altering avarice that's constantly suggesting what you want is all that matters, reality be damned.

tldr, my take is Paul's less immune to the Ring's influence than he wants to believe he is.
I'd say it's not so much the Ring, but that he's just as prone to having his own biases influence him as anyone else.
Avarice Enlightenment doesn't keep you from doing stupid things, it just means you know exactly why you want to.
A good chunk of OL being right was from meta-knowledge rather than intelligent reasoning.
 
Come to think of it, this arc is a little funny. He's going around ideally so he can find out how people actually felt about Nabu's situation. But out of everyone, he's an empath who should have been able to just check how they felt about it without having to ask and reveal his own feelings. A safe way to check without just deciding they were all a-ok with it.

And that's leaving out normal subtlety, like asking "Hey, Diana/Supes/Plastic Man, do you know who's been buying Zatanna's groceries?" Or being in view of them while asking Nabu "got any plans for Father's Day?" Or needling Aquaman "you know, you should see if one of your mages would work with Nabu for a while. I'm sure Giovanni would appreciate Christmas off." I'd keep pointing out opportunities, but... I don't know for certain why Paul didn't go harder in on subtlety. Like, if you're really the guy who complains about people not just talking things out and getting a win-win...

I'd say he was just bad at that sort of thing, but it's not like he wasn't willing to rope in people with skills he doesn't have.
 
And that's leaving out normal subtlety, like asking "Hey, Diana/Supes/Plastic Man, do you know who's been buying Zatanna's groceries?" Or being in view of them while asking Nabu "got any plans for Father's Day?" Or needling Aquaman "you know, you should see if one of your mages would work with Nabu for a while. I'm sure Giovanni would appreciate Christmas off." I'd keep pointing out opportunities, but... I don't know for certain why Paul didn't go harder in on subtlety. Like, if you're really the guy who complains about people not just talking things out and getting a win-win...
That's not subtlety.

It would also have risked tipping Nabu off. If the SI was going to risk that, he would just have invited Diana into a shielded room and raised the issue directly.
 
Well, he said "neither is a parasite, and as such, represent an improvement".

"Represent", as a verb, clearly has to be taking its subject from the earlier segment of the sentence. But the subject used there was the pronoun "neither". So, you get "neither represent an improvement".

Besides having a singular vs plural disagreement ("either" and "neither" are usually treated as singular), this is the opposite meaning to what the SI intended.
 
Been reading over some of the old arcs for fun, and I gotta say it (again, if I already have) but I really love how armor actually means something in this work. "Armor is useless" Is a trope that utterly infuriates me. I've been trying to get into Warhammer 40,000 a bit (Lore, Novels and video games. I...just can't do table top) after having watched several videos of Totalbiscuit after his passing (Never really watched him before) and it looked really interesting.

Then I watched a trailer for a game, can't remember which, where an entire company of pretty damn massive power armored marines were utterly wiped by a couple of little "nimble" elf-y thingies with blades on their wrists. All I could think was "Really? Just....just sliced and stabbed though what honest to god looks like at least a half a foot or more of solid metal....yeah okay :mad:"
 
Remember, the Justice League does not kill even mass-murdering supervillains except in defence. It's perfectly in character for Superman to say, You should have talked to someone before making a plan that included lethal force.
But they do fight criminals regularly and that's always going to include the possibility of someone getting lethal damage.

Maybe Superman thinks that kids can't be trusted with these sorts of situations and assumed that some responsible adult was monitoring all of the team's prior engagements to protect their opponents. But it seems to me that he just thinks Nabu was a more valuable person; a hero who deserved protection that criminals (and co-opted innocents) don't deserve.
 
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Been reading over some of the old arcs for fun, and I gotta say it (again, if I already have) but I really love how armor actually means something in this work. "Armor is useless" Is a trope that utterly infuriates me. I've been trying to get into Warhammer 40,000 a bit (Lore, Novels and video games. I...just can't do table top) after having watched several videos of Totalbiscuit after his passing (Never really watched him before) and it looked really interesting.

Then I watched a trailer for a game, can't remember which, where an entire company of pretty damn massive power armored marines were utterly wiped by a couple of little "nimble" elf-y thingies with blades on their wrists. All I could think was "Really? Just....just sliced and stabbed though what honest to god looks like at least a half a foot or more of solid metal....yeah okay :mad:"
Agree completely. The only thing that makes less sense than a complete lack of armor is armor that doesn't do anything. If weapons can chew through armored units nearly as well as unarmored ones, then you have little reason to wear costly and weighty armor, and should instead focus on maneuverability/stealth, or being able to carry more weapons or utility equipment.

Star Wars is a good example of armor being useless. Storm Troopers not only die to single hits from blasters, but have been shown in multiple movies to be knocked out by people hitting them with sticks or rocks. It honestly looks like Storm Trooper armor is actively harmful to the wearer, because some of the hits probably would have been effectively shielded by ordinary plastic in the same shape as the depicted armor. If the armor does anything at all, it could be environmental protection, but that's never explicitly shown in the movies.

In a similar vein, recall in episode 6 how a single A wing was able to kamikazi itself into the... Super Star Destroyer? The fucking big ship that the Emperor brought out to intimidate everyone. Disregarding the absolutely horrible ship design that having such an exposed bridge represents, and how killing that bridge immediately decapitates the ship, it shows once again that competent engineers don't exist in the Star Wars universe. If the laws of physics allow for small ships to effectively damage ships that hugely outmass them, then competent engineers and leaders don't make massive battlecruisers the backbone of their fleet. Battlecruisers/destroyers/whatever you want to call them become secondary to ships that can house and launch huge screens of fighter ships. IRL, planes can destroy much larger naval vessels than themselves, so naval focus is on aircraft carriers now, rather than big guns on their seagoing ships. The Empire would be much better served by making ships that are much cheaper to produce, and dumping all the money spent on armor and weapons to have more hangar space for the ships that are actually effective. The Rebellion embodies this military philosophy quite well, and they did alright.

This is why I really liked that one aside, when the SI was training Koriand'r and Komand'r, about how big ships in WTR have shields that actually can defend against fighter weaponry, and thus big ships are the norm. It raises the question of why the Thanagariams primarily used fighter craft, but I assume that there is a reasonable explanation. The fighter craft weren't much of a focus anyways, so it wouldn't be a big deal even if they are a plot hole.

To bring this back around to the original topic in replying to, if weapons that can pierce your best infantry armor are common, then pretty soon you stop spending resources on the walking tanks that get cut down, and start investing more on the regular infantry that represent smaller losses of resource investment individually.
 
Then I watched a trailer for a game, can't remember which, where an entire company of pretty damn massive power armored marines were utterly wiped by a couple of little "nimble" elf-y thingies with blades on their wrists. All I could think was "Really? Just....just sliced and stabbed though what honest to god looks like at least a half a foot or more of solid metal....yeah okay :mad:"

One of the more common melee weapons among elite troops in 40k is "power weapons" which are essentially melee weapons that can cut through any mundane armor. Typically only high end melee focused troops or really high end units will have every man in a squad having one. A typical squad will usually only have the guy leading it with one. The elder are a faction made up almost entirely of elite units, they do pretty good against marines in melee. That said, units who don't have power weapons who get into a fist fight with someone in power armor tend to go splat with about as much effect as a tomato on a tank.
 
Not that expensive. So long as you prepare for the natural disasters ahead of building, you save a shitload of money from the rebuild and loss of life.

Sure, but it's short term thinking in action; the up-front cost is now, the disaster is sometime in the indefinite future.

Which is why it's the sort of thing that has to be mandated by law (like in that article I linked), or a lot of people simply won't do it. Humans are just too prone to short term thinking to expect anything else.
Apart from the inevitable corruption, there's the issue that a poor family or a poor country may not be able to afford the up-front expenditure that would be required, in much the same way that a poor man might buy cheap ten-dollar boots that last him about a year, while a rich man buys expensive fifty-dollar boots that last him ten years, and thus spends less money on boots over that ten-year period - the poor man cannot afford to spend fifty dollars on a pair of boots, he needs to be able to eat, make rent, and pay other bills, along with wasting some on alcohol to help him deal with how much his dead-end job sucks (and even if he wasn't wasting it on alcohol and other vices, the savings often wouldn't be enough to really help, because he just doesn't make that much).

A poor country has similar problems, on top of the aforementioned corruption: they only have so much money, they only get so much foreign aid, and even if none of the foreign aid gets grafted onto some bureaucrat's or politician's bank account, they have so many things that they need to spend it on, that 'houses on stilts in flood-prone areas' might still be missed.

I felt the same way on that line, but Clark's last line has pretty much the same tone.

'We can't teach you if you won't listen.' isn't really the response you give after-the-fact to a situation in which your group was explicitly in the wrong.

Nabu being accepted into the justice league wasn't a situation that OL needed to be 'taught' about, it was something they were doing that was wrong. If he'd approached them then they could have tried to justify it to him, but they couldn't have just 'answered his questions' because he'd have still had to go out and solve the problem.
It's rather unfortunate that OL couldn't tell him that, but OL can't teach Superman if he won't listen.

Part of the problem is that Superman's World of Cardboard speech from Justice League Unlimited is really true for most versions of him, and this affects how he thinks and behaves, much like Hagrid's great size, strength, and durability affect how he sees 'interesting' creatures. Kal-El is a lot smarter than Hagrid, but he does have similar blind-spots, which can trip him up. He's so powerful that very few beings can threaten him enough to put him in a 'kill or be killed' situation, because he can nearly always find another option. It may well be that this Kal-El has always been able to find another option, outside of situations where someone like Paul decided to cut the Gordian Knot.

There's also the rather important point that Kal-El is not a utilitarian (which OL is), and even if he were, he seems to assign a significantly greater value to sapient life than Paul does, while Paul seems to assign a greater value to individual freedom and happiness than Superman does, at least when the individual is someone Paul is emotionally close to. As we've seen, if the only way to free a slave is to kill the enslaver, Superman will keep looking for another option possibly forever (but doesn't have a lot of time to expend on it, which doesn't help), while Paul will give the slaver every chance to surrender, and go for the kill once it's clear that other options won't work. Both are insane from a modern Western perspective, but in different ways and for different reasons.
 
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You know, I don't really like MLP, but in this context i don't really have much of a problem with it.
I don't think its *not* a decent show, I haven't watched it at length but I'd be very surprised if it had gotten as popular as it has with as wide a demographic as it has without being at least decent. I just... can't get past the premise...

I'm sort of in the same boat. I like the show, but I can't stand more than a few episodes at a time because it's so warm and fuzzy, and that doesn't scratch my particular narrative itch in the slightest.

This part REALLY rubs me the wrong way. It just feels so utterly condescending and arrogant.
Like, there is absolutely nothing he could learn from anyone else and the only reason he cares at all about what other people think is so that he can "correct" their thought processes.
I felt the same way on that line, but Clark's last line has pretty much the same tone.
'We can't teach you if you won't listen.' isn't really the response you give after-the-fact to a situation in which your group was explicitly in the wrong.
Nabu being accepted into the justice league wasn't a situation that OL needed to be 'taught' about, it was something they were doing that was wrong. If he'd approached them then they could have tried to justify it to him, but they couldn't have just 'answered his questions' because he'd have still had to go out and solve the problem.
And that's leaving out normal subtlety, like asking "Hey, Diana/Supes/Plastic Man, do you know who's been buying Zatanna's groceries?" Or being in view of them while asking Nabu "got any plans for Father's Day?" Or needling Aquaman "you know, you should see if one of your mages would work with Nabu for a while. I'm sure Giovanni would appreciate Christmas off." I'd keep pointing out opportunities, but... I don't know for certain why Paul didn't go harder in on subtlety. Like, if you're really the guy who complains about people not just talking things out and getting a win-win...

I agree with iamnuff on this. It would've been counter-productive to bring them in the loop or even make passive-aggressive comments because their reflexive response would have been to defend their decision to bring Nabu into the League.
 
Storm Troopers not only die to single hits from blasters, but have been shown in multiple movies to be knocked out by people hitting them with sticks or rocks.
This is the particular concern imo. It's sort of reasonable to say that all-purpose galactic peacekeepers wear armor because even if serious threats can still hurt them, they'll meet a lot of situations where armor matters. But if a bunch of upright squirrels with sticks and rocks can do them in, there's no point.

Note that the X-Wing series (The Bacta War) states they learned from their mistakes at Endor and would now wear camouflage gear.

If the laws of physics allow for small ships to effectively damage ships that hugely outmass them, then competent engineers and leaders don't make massive battlecruisers the backbone of their fleet.
Another point from the Expanded Universe (Heir to the Empire): Captain Pellaeon, right hand man to Grand Admiral Thrawn, inwardly contemplates that many Imperial officers viewed the Death Stars as impractical and more about exerting control over the Imperial fleet than winning battles against Rebels.
 
There's also the Super Star Destroyers. They sound incredibly menacing at 20 KM in length and holding a quarter of a million in personal. However its noted in-universe that they are pure shock value, and the costs of creating and maintaining them is not worth the increased killing potential for one ship. It is both cheaper and more effective to field a literal fleet of capital ships over a SSD.

One good example is the hunt for Warlord Zsinj, who held the SSD Iron Fist. Thrawn used it more as a symbol of his might because he had such a dangerous ship, but he would never commit it to battle without putting multiple contingencies in place to make sure he was able to get it off the battlefield to the point he had a false death gambit designed for the ship.
 
I mean, is it really madness if you're perfectly capable of being rational and consistent? Paul isn't mad, he has a blue/orange morality. He's at least as sane as the average person, its just that he has different fundamental values than the average person.

If you think of him as a normal person of course his behavior is going to seem strange, but think of it this way; basically any alien that isn't a DC rubber forehead alien is probably also going to have fundamentally different values, too. So if you call Paul crazy, you'd also call almost everyone else in the universe crazy as well.
...well, that's a point, possibly, but...

If you're saying "everyone but me is insane", the insane one is you.
...that's pretty much Paul's viewpoint.
 
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