I think it's being tainted in his mind by it being Grayven that's doing it. Grayven hasn't had the greatest relationship with the JL and now he does this.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
a resisting magus
, Haven't we
. Haven't we
a alleged
an alleged
the retroactively changing
the retroactive changing
Webbster
Webster
sent though
sent through
the trident system
Trident should probably be capitalised.
@Mr Zoat, have you ever read The Metropolitan Man?
set them off. and
set them off. And
- Location
- Germany
I get that the governments are worried.
They have a responsibility to their citizens which is a bit hard to fullfill if you're under constant threat of being violently replaced if some moron in tights disagrees with you.
What they don't seem to get is that this fear doesn't justify shit though. It doesn't give them cart blanche to do whatever they want.
And Superman should realise that he doesn't have to/mustn't conform to that fear and paranoia for the prize of innocent lives.
They have a responsibility to their citizens which is a bit hard to fullfill if you're under constant threat of being violently replaced if some moron in tights disagrees with you.
What they don't seem to get is that this fear doesn't justify shit though. It doesn't give them cart blanche to do whatever they want.
And Superman should realise that he doesn't have to/mustn't conform to that fear and paranoia for the prize of innocent lives.
Count Rushcore
Self-Requested Ban
Shut down, man! Kryptonian forcefield or not, he must have felt that one burn (even if it is just the burn of impotent rage in his gut).
Honestly, this arc brought me back around on the renegade!timeline.
- Location
- Hampden Park
- Location
- Maybe?
Isn't Superman ostensibly a good red-blooded American with Christian values? Methinks he needs to read up on his G.K. Chesterton:
It's a bad day when the alien conqueror embodies Christian morality better than Superman does.
--G.K. Chesterton, What's Wrong With The World, on the topic of whether it's acceptable to cut off street urchins' hair for reasons of public hygiene.
It's a bad day when the alien conqueror embodies Christian morality better than Superman does.
I don't understand why other countries would try and nuke Britain. I mean, Grayven said that they posted all of the crimes online and there is clearly a super powered being (Grayven) and British heroes on scene to clean up this mess. Every other government on Earth knows or will know what the British government did.
Obviously, there is a line in the sand for a government's evil/shady activities and Britain went so far over that line that it became a dot.
My question is, how can any government in the world work with/ trade with/ make deals with Britain when all of their crimes are so crazy? After World War 2, Germany got the short end of the stick for years in regards to aid, trade, industry and infrastructure.
Obviously, there is a line in the sand for a government's evil/shady activities and Britain went so far over that line that it became a dot.
My question is, how can any government in the world work with/ trade with/ make deals with Britain when all of their crimes are so crazy? After World War 2, Germany got the short end of the stick for years in regards to aid, trade, industry and infrastructure.
Scrumptious Egoi
I Lurks
Gugh, I understand where Supe's coming from. While Grayven made sure that he aired out all of Brit's industrial soiled laundry, he also sent a message that said: "If I don't like how you do things, I'm capable and willing to remove you." Human's tend to go for the throat against these kind of threats, I'm worried about Lynne. That girl is basically psychic god girl, any peep of that and she has to live with snipers looking to off her whenever the chance.
You know, thinking about it she's really a good choice for Grayven to give the Eye of Zoltec to. She's a relatively "squishy" person he cares about and worries for; something that grants high-tier invulnerability seems like it would be ideal for her.
It would take a pretty ballsy sniper and/or government to target the daughter of a god who just took out an entire first world government in a day. Especially since the existence of Hell is now a known fact in the DC-verse which means there exists the distinct possibility that Grayven could literally send your soul to Hell for all of eternity.
Hope we get to see his answer to the problem of WWIII kicking off in advance rather than getting it as an arsepull. He isn't (usually) stupid enough to make this sort of boast if he doesn't have something on hand to stop a salvo of ICBMs.
...although given his acknowledged parentage I wouldn't be surprised if he is banking on the JL dealing with the missiles if, or more likely when, he provokes a nuclear cataclysm.
This would hold a lot more weight if Greyven hadn't told them they had a month to make their arguments then enacted his plan twenty nine days early.
Because Britain is Greyven's current location.
It is like this: Greyven just overthrew a 1st world government on moral grounds. This is very worrying to other 1st world governments because they all have secrets that are a justification for overthrowing them on moral grounds. If any of them thought they could succeed in dropping a nuke on Greyven they would do so. The fact he is not currently standing in one of their cities is a small bonus.
Evil M. Lurker
What Lurks at Midnight
- Location
- The City, USA
Base calumny! The sideburns dimension is our primary source of hot-blooded heroic giant robot pilots.
- Location
- Ashtabula
Uh...he has two power rings and a mother box.
Evil M. Lurker
What Lurks at Midnight
- Location
- The City, USA
...if I were Grayven, I would begin investigation into whoever is wearing the blue union suit.
Because that. Is not. Superman.
(I never watched more than a couple of episodes of Young Justice, and if this characterization is accurate to the show I'm glad I didn't, because what the hell Greg Weisman?)
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That will let him stop individual missiles. Perhaps as many as three or four in a minute, more if he doesn't mind setting them off in his face rather than disarming them. A full nuclear exchange would have in excess of ten thousand ICBMs and that is just the publicly acknowledged arsenals.
He has 20 minutes to 2 hours to stop them all. He has FTL and power rings. Disasemble 1 missile per second and he is golden.
- Location
- U.S.
Nuclear bombs are more-or-less very carefully designed to never, ever explode in any time or place except for the one you want it to. Aside from conventional timer systems and the like, you have inertial guidance systems which will prevent detonation if the launch doesn't go pretty much exactly as predicted.
This means that the best way to disarm a nuclear bomb is basically just to shoot it. Even if you set off the detonator, it doesn't work properly unless it explodes in a very specific electronically-controlled manner, so you're looking at a dirty bomb at worst unless someone specifically rebuilt their bombs to go off at the slightest provocation with no regard for safety, and even then if you hit something important it would still disarm it.
So the question changes from "how fast can he reach bombs and disarm them with his two do-it-all galactic cereal box prizes" to "how fast can he shoot a array of slow moving targets spaced across the planet".
If he's dumb and decides to portal to each and every one himself and shoot them, relatively slowly.
If he's smart and delegates to his minio- i mean, employees, and uses the stationary boomtube system in his mountain which is explicitly capable enough to move a entire *army* of lanterns, he stands a fair chance of doing it.
If he's genre-savvy, he has already built a series of Apokalyptian-tech active defense platforms which are already in place/ready to be distributed in orbit via boomtube at a moment's notice, and could easily shoot down a few thousand conventional-tech ICBMs within a matter of seconds, nevermind minutes.
NexysDhyArchen
Throne Breaker
Alternatively, Motherbox plus two rings let's him reprogram all bit the most schizo-tech and/or the most dumb-fire warheads and missiles. The remaining ones are what he'd be time crunching to handle.
It doesn't matter. If the goal is to kill him, then it doesn't matter if they fire one or a million ICBMs; none will hit since he can just transition or Boom Tube away. Abilities of his which are well known, and so will be taken into account.
And he's already made his attitude about killing clear. Anyone who tried that would pretty much have to expect that the end result would be that Grayven lives and they die; which is a major incentive not to do it.
The subtext is that the Renegade is reminding Superman that Supes has no power to stop him, doesn't have the kind of relationship where he can just ask nicely either, and the big grey guy isn't actively seeking such a relationship, either. Using the daughter line invites Superman to try making intellectual or emotional appeals ("You want your daughter to grow up in a world where governments are overthrown by anyone with the power to do so?"), and that's not something Grayven is interested in hearing. So he's shutting down that potential line of response before it happens.
In addition, Grayven doesn't want the League to feel they have a chance of developing some form of control over him, even one as minimal as friendship or shared values. He wants to be able to trigger an instant knee-jerk emergency response the next time he casually mentions maybe doing something with enormous political ramifications. That gives him power over them. It also means that they can't afford to be lazy or passive about such things happening in the world, because they won't automatically get a heads-up if Grayven decides to personally step in. On top of that, it's Grayven deliberately highlighting the difference between reacting (what the League tends to do) and taking deliberate action about something considered part of the status quo (usually the remit of supervillains). He's trying to make them think about how they themselves choose to interface with the world. I'd strongly bet that if another superhero - or even a non-superhero with sufficient resources - stated that they were stepping in to take action about an issue, Grayven's response would be to back off and not interfere, because he's trying to encourage that more active mindset.
Of course, if superheroes become too proactive, you get the Justice Lords, so there's that issue.
Or he just says "Rings, give all the tracking information to Motherbox. Motherbox, boom-tube those warheads into the planet's mantle." Unless there are government warheads with scry-protection on them, at this point...?
NexysDhyArchen
Throne Breaker
There is also the angle that Grayven could point out to the Justice League in that this is establishing a precedent for the Security Council and other Governments that if they don't adhere to the legal and moral standards that they claim to, then they can in fact be brought to bear the consequences. If the Justice League and Grayven both back the UN over the Security Council, that is a serious challenge to the stagnant affairs of Earth.
It is one thing for the Security Council and peers to give lip service to UN charters and jerk it around for their own ends, running their 'secrets they'd kill for' in the background. It is quite another if they get held accountable to their own f*king laws that they so cavalierly ignore when it is convenient and not involving their own.
And put that way, what actions could the Green Lanterns take, given that a literal league of assassins was considered untouchable in the context of global politics?
I feel that I'm rambling and not expressing the ideas here eloquently, but that they still needed to be said. Could somebody else take them and build off properly?
It is one thing for the Security Council and peers to give lip service to UN charters and jerk it around for their own ends, running their 'secrets they'd kill for' in the background. It is quite another if they get held accountable to their own f*king laws that they so cavalierly ignore when it is convenient and not involving their own.
And put that way, what actions could the Green Lanterns take, given that a literal league of assassins was considered untouchable in the context of global politics?
I feel that I'm rambling and not expressing the ideas here eloquently, but that they still needed to be said. Could somebody else take them and build off properly?
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- Location
- New England
You've never studied the Cold War, have you? The USSR and the West have done just as much if not worse in the name of their respective ideologies.
- Location
- Sector 2814
On the Paragon side, we did see scry-warded missiles as early as the Rhelasian peace summit. Maybe not government owned, but I would be surprised if there weren't a few owned by various governments a year or so later, in both timelines.
Of course, unless our hypothetical, scry-warded nukes were launched with a shocking degree of simultaneity, Grayven can survive a nuke, and "Boom tube to somewhere else, maybe in a different solar system" is a pretty quick counter to the subsequent attacks.
- Status