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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Christian hell is honestly just a default option. In most cases its where you go when the writer is to lazy to try anything interesting. There are plenty of options for an unpleasant afterlife, but fires, spires, demons, and pain are easy to just throw together and get something where other options would require more detail. Sure sometimes it gets more fleshed out and detailed, but that seems to be in the minority, at least in my experience.
 
Queshire said:
Honestly it always bugs me a bit when Christian stuff is treated as more powerful than others. I mean, just from here Hell is supposed to be universal, yet we're supposed to expect that say... Odin (I like Norse Mythology) is just a jumped up elemental?
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On the other hand, I see the benefit in picking an answer and going with it. Saying everything is true kind of means nothing is true, you know?

Also, honestly it's not exactly flattering to Christianity to be the "winner" here. Hell is barely mentioned in actual Biblical texts... comic book Hell takes some of accumulated Christian apocryphal mythology (that is basically irrelevant to anything about the religion) and uses it as set dressing for a scary alien dimension. It's probably further away from actual Christianity than the Marvel comics version of Thor is from Norse eddas.

Using heaven and hell without Jesus is to Christianity as raiding Norse mythology for its depiction of dwarves and dropped anything to do with the actual Norse gods would be to that religion.
 
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Darth Locutus said:
It's like organ donation, but with divine superpowers instead.



Dresden files has Odin as "weak" as he is because he is a retired god. He no longer has an active religion, nor the billions of followers that the white god has. And given that Faith is explicitly magically empowering in an of itself, that matters a LOT.
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Granted, 'weak' in this context is 'owner of a very large, very powerful paramilitary organization' and 'can't make people explode by just looking at them.' Odin's still pretty fucking terrifying, all things considered.
 
It's just part of the setting. The writer's of a lot of these stories were Christian. In that context, you can't really be surprised they decided to make the God of Christianity top dog on the power scale.
 
ForeverShogo said:
It's just part of the setting. The writer's of a lot of these stories were Christian. In that context, you can't really be surprised they decided to make the God of Christianity top dog on the power scale.
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Oh certainly, I fully acknowledge that it's cultural. You can see that in how in anime they're more likely to raid Christian mythos for Cool Stuff(tm) like we do Norse or Greek mythology.

It doesn't stop it from being a bit annoying to see it singled out. I only really know Hellblazer from here and that one live action movie, but if they wanted to do "everything is shit" then there's plenty of material out there from other mythologies that would be ripe for the picking.

Don't get me wrong though, you see it all the time. Supernatural is a big offender, the Percy Jackson series pretty much flat out said that "we're not doing Christian stuff here" as soon as he found out what was going on, and in the Dresden Files, it's not so much the power level for me, but it seems so much more abstract than other mythologies. We can understand Odin as running a mercenary company and part time Santa Claus, but with Christianity we mostly get their champions via the knights and the denairians. The only upper management we see is Uri. Compare that to the fairy courts, and Norse & Greek mythology where we respectively meet the big bosses of the first three and a member of the big three of the last.
 
random_npc said:
he means it to. Paul genuinely does not get why some people would consider this extreme. Though I'm not sure if this is because he's an odd fellow or if this is because of his increasingly inhuman worldview.
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I suspect some of it is his perspective as a literal outsider to that universe. As he's said in-story, Earth 16 on a fundamental level doesn't make sense to him; so what's one more crazy thing in a sea of crazy things?

For Kaldur, attaching a pair of severed angel's wings to a half-demon is an outlandish idea; but going to an underwater school of sorcery is a perfectly reasonable and normal thing to do. To OL the mere existence of underwater schools and of angel wings are both equally bizarre. So OL's sense of what is reasonable and plausible is going to be really skewed by Earth 16 standards.
 
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Queshire said:
Honestly it always bugs me a bit when Christian stuff is treated as more powerful than others. I mean, just from here Hell is supposed to be universal, yet we're supposed to expect that say... Odin (I like Norse Mythology) is just a jumped up elemental?
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The DC franchise is pantheistic when it comes to the Presence.

So of course it ranks higher than Odin, the Presence is every god from every planet and all their worshippers to boot, as well as every other cosmic power along with everything else.

That is, when the Presence isn't a "jumped up elemental" too, just with several billion more worshippers than any of the other deities likely to show up in the comics.

As usual, DC contradicts itself.
 
Queshire said:
Honestly it always bugs me a bit when Christian stuff is treated as more powerful than others. I mean, just from here Hell is supposed to be universal, yet we're supposed to expect that say... Odin (I like Norse Mythology) is just a jumped up elemental?
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Which is why I always preferred Buffy to Supernatural.

Ganurath said:
The episode is called Converse, and there are only so many Kryptonian things one can converse with. Given the alternatives, I'd recommend 'survivor' over 'prisoner' or 'artificial intelligence.'
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Eh. Paul could just be trialing a new type of shoe.
 
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I like how Canis can casually dip his fingers in angel blood then lick it with no one batting an eye compared to questioning Paul's decision to attach said angel wings to a half demoness, in the hopes of making her the equivalent of a half angel.

Plus it sweet that despite his actions regarding Nabu the Team welcome him with open arms.
 
Just discovered today that canon Young Justice has (recently?) appeared on Netflix. Tempting, except, am I just going to constantly think, "This would go so much better with a competent Lantern on the team"?

Mr Zoat said:
Kaldur offer
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Kaldur offers

shakes it at exactly
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shakes it exactly

highly-skilled
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Don't need the hyphen for words ending in -ly.

"Why would you wish to employ biomancers?"
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Why do you ask Paul questions like this?!

M'gann look
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M'gann looks

severed ends of each
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severed end of each

sniffing it and then licking them
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sniffing them and then licking them

"No one here's Christian, right?"
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Yeah, but DC is so way off from Mormon doctrine that it in no way offends me.

her hand from her hand a little away from her mouth
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I think there's an extra hand here?

The metal for the Ace of Winchesters, then.
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I'm not sure what this refers to. Did they do repairs on the Ace or something?

I thought that the two of us could take a trip to the Rao system and see if there was anything to pick up.
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IIRC Zoat has leaked the fact that this excursion will be preempted by something else.
 
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Mr Zoat said:
"I've sorted things out with Diana and Batman, but I still need to square things with Kal-El. And the one thing I know he likes is Kryptonian memorabilia, so I thought that the two of us could take a trip to the Rao system and see if there was anything to pick up. Sound like fun?"
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They're going to find so many shiny's...
 
ThrawnCA said:
Just discovered today that canon Young Justice has (recently?) appeared on Netflix. Tempting, except, am I just going to constantly think, "This would go so much better with a competent Lantern on the team"?
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I find that happening even with other YJ fanfics. In the back of my head, this is the "real" version of YJ, not the canon one. So part of me keeps forgetting that there's no OL in other versions of the setting to deal with problems.

"Why doesn't OL just...oh, wait."
 
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uju32 said:
Citation please?
Because I looked around and the only citations I could find were Renegade.
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Oh, woops wrong time on the tower, this is the talk they had just before the Vikings

Mr Zoat said:
"I.. better brush up on my Kryptonese." He smiles at me. "Shame you couldn't find someone closer." His smile disappears. "You found someone closer?!"

"Um." Stupid… Super senses. "Ssssort of?"

"On Earth? Where?"

"Thing is, sir… They… Know you're here. I mean, you're not exactly subtle, you wear the sigil of House El on your chest..."

"Why is that a problem?"

"The individual in question was a member of the Kryptonian navy who went AWOL when the Science Council took over. While Jor-El was opposed to isolationism, House El as a whole was in favour of it and several members of the Science Council-."

"And they blame me for that?" He shakes his head in disbelief. "Let me talk to them."

"I.. rather promised that I wouldn't, sir. They were… Percussively emphatic about not wanting anything to do with you." The muscles around his jaw tighten. "I wouldn't tell them that you're Clark Kent; it's hardly fair to expect me to spill their secrets."

"Maybe not. But I certainly didn't promise that I wouldn't look-."
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Mr Zoat said:
"I've sorted things out with Diana and Batman, but I still need to square things with Kal-El. And the one thing I know he likes is Kryptonian memorabilia, so I thought that the two of us could take a trip to the Rao system and see if there was anything to pick up. Sound like fun?"
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You never did go look for Supergirl, I figured the Desire to Protect little Kal-El would be enough for you to lock on to even if you might need the Snake's help to do it.
 
I wonder what Cornwall and Rocket are up to. We need to hear from them before this road trip. Also I'm glad that Canis hasn't been locked up. He's everything I'd want from a peculiar hero.


Oh and I know Supergirl is the hot topic for the thread right now, but I'd like to take this Kryptonian hype in another direction: Doomsday. Possibly Doomsday fighting The Main Man.
 
nmWarden said:
Oh and I know Supergirl is the hot topic for the thread right now, but I'd like to take this Kryptonian hype in another direction: Doomsday. Possibly Doomsday fighting The Main Man.
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Traditionally Doomsday left Krypton in prehistoric times.

Although fun fact- Kryptonians found Bertron's lab and reverse engineered the technology, so all of Krypton's genetic science comes from the lab that created Doomsday.

So apparently Krypton had the capacity to make doomsdays, and enough sense to not do so.

Other things they might find- Kryptonite Man, Kryptonoid, an Eradicator, the last demon of krypton, Cythonna the kryptonian goddess of cold, or a portal to the Infinite City ruled by an AI Jor-El, just off the top of my head.

I doubt they'll find Beppo the super monkey. ☺
 
stsword said:
Traditionally Doomsday left Krypton in prehistoric times.

Although fun fact- Kryptonians found Bertron's lab and reverse engineered the technology, so all of Krypton's genetic science comes from the lab that created Doomsday.

So apparently Krypton had the capacity to make doomsdays, and enough sense to not do so.

Other things they might find- Kryptonite Man, Kryptonoid, an Eradicator, the last demon of krypton, Cythonna the kryptonian goddess of cold, or a portal to the Infinite City ruled by an AI Jor-El, just off the top of my head.
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Those aren't fun facts. Those are horrible facts. I'm not sure you quite understand what fun facts are. They're not that.
 
If they are going to Krypton system, with Kon, there is a non-insignificant chance that Rao will make an appearance. After all, Kon bears the blessing of the god (titan) of the Sun of humans. Rao is the god of the Sun of Kryptonians. It would be fitting for him to bestow a blessing on one of the last of his people too.
 
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