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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Queshire said:
Also, I spent way too long typing this.
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*sigh* In the original context of Paul turning himself into a civilization, this still doesn't work, because he's not one of these and there's no indication that he can turn himself into one of these. Heck, we don't even know if this style of hivemind can exist on Earth-16; just because something is theoretically possible doesn't mean it can happen or has happened. Furthermore, we could argue back and forth for days over whether that counts as a single entity or many; I, for one, still consider it to be separate entities because they might be considered like skin cells by the Primes and Thirds but they're still individuals by every other metric because it's still a pseudo-hivemind.
 
To be fair to Zeus he cared enough about Cassie's mother to send the Olympian to be her bodyguard in NE.

For those who have never heard of him, think Greek Superman, his powers come from wearing the golden fleece as a cloak, giving him all the abilities of the Argonauts. And he gets to hear their voices in his head.

As Helena and Cassie's bodyguard he and Helena start a whole romancing the bodyguard thing.

Bit of trivia- Orpheus is credited as one of the argonauts, so Dream's son would be one of the voices in his head....
 
Exalted would get New Genesis and Apokolips teamed up to obliterate them. They are that kind of abominations no one likes.

I mean having what's basically a group of Lobos on steroids would ruin anyone day.

Just think what happens when an Exalted, even a good one loses its cool.
 
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No i've been very specific about what the starter skill is here.

The putting his soul into other things, i.e. the basis of all his non-sapient new god tech is the primal ancestor to what he'd need to do to become a primordial. He just needs to take that to an illogical extreme, permanently investing shard of his soul into places, objects, and bodies that then turn around and have an impact on his primary self's development.

The whole sharing bits of soul with Lynne is related, but I never claimed he turned he into his Fetich (most important 3rd circle) Soul, now if he starts displaying some of her psychic abilities or thematic new god powers then She would be his Primary Deva, and he would be her Primordial.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Fuck Kevin Smith, I will not be using his abomination.
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Damn right! (Also: Hey, icon_uk! The foremost Douglas Ramsey fan upon this island earth! I hadn't thought about him in years.)

Maxx Crowley said:
Also, that art is terrible.
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I will meet you at dawn to defend Phil Foglio AND his delightfully whimsical art, good sir! AT DAWN!

...not, it's not just because he did XXXenophile. Not... not 100%, at least. ...99.9%, tops. Tops!
 
Pinklestia said:
Exalted would get New Genesis and Apokolips teamed up to obliterate them. They are that kind of abominations no one likes.

I mean having what's basically a group of Lobos on steroids would ruin anyone day.

Just think what happens when an Exalted, even a good one loses its cool.
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We've seen what happens when Apokalips gets invaded by Lobo- death by dismemberment became very popular among New Gods.

So the more likely scenario is that the Exalted use Apokalips as an exp farm, after tanking the Omega Beams with perfect defense and then using Darkseid's head as a soccer ball.

Of course, the thing everyone ignores in Exalted is how entirely setting specific their power is.

Being the apex predator of the deep blue sea isn't helpful on dry land, much less high in the sky.

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stsword said:
So the more likely scenario is that the Exalted use Apokalips as an exp farm, after tanking the Omega Beams with perfect defense and then using Darkseid's head as a soccer ball.
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I'd have to do some reading to be sure, but I don't think that most essence abilities would work in a setting not linked to Autochthon's Fate system. Since matter in Exalted is just another manifestation of essence their self-directed ones probably would, but since the Omega Effect isn't essence-based I don't think they could perfect block it. Dodge, probably, but I don't think all Exalted types have perfect dodges.
 
w34v3r said:
No i've been very specific about what the starter skill is here.

The putting his soul into other things, i.e. the basis of all his non-sapient new god tech is the primal ancestor to what he'd need to do to become a primordial. He just needs to take that to an illogical extreme, permanently investing shard of his soul into places, objects, and bodies that then turn around and have an impact on his primary self's development.
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Lanterns create energy fields which seem similar to the fields used in the technology of the Culture. Does this then mean that the SI will soon start manufacturing 200 kilometer city Ships?

No, because some surface similarities are just that, surface. If it was possible to make copies of your soul that grow into extensions of yourself, then Darkseid would have already done so.
 
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Empiricist2 said:
No, because some surface similarities are just that, surface. If it was possible to make copies of your soul that grow into extensions of yourself, the. Darkseid would have already done so.
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To be fair, he already does that to an extent. He just doesn't create them out of nothingness; he creates them by molding other people's souls Self=Darkseid into his image.
 
Mr Zoat said:
I'd have to do some reading to be sure, but I don't think that most essence abilities would work in a setting not linked to Autochthon's Fate system. Since matter in Exalted is just another manifestation of essence their self-directed ones probably would, but since the Omega Effect isn't essence-based I don't think they could perfect block it. Dodge, probably, but I don't think all Exalted types have perfect dodges.
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Everything is essence, under the Exalted model. if it isn't essence it wouldn't interact with them, because it would't exist for them. And vice versa. Essence is the substance of existence from an Exalted viewpoint, so talking about 'not essence' isn't really a terribly meaningful statement. You could posit non-essence things of course, but then the question of how someone from Creation would see, touch, feel, or interact with that thing has to be tackled.
 
Just a couple of words, if you allow me.
Empiricist2 said:
That's mind control though.
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I would argue it's spiritual control, since it affects the Soul, and from there the Mind. At least as I have seen them written by Mr. Zoat. Since New Gods are Biology+Spirituality they don't probably see or care about the difference, but I consider it noteworthy at the least.
 
Empiricist2 said:
That's mind control though. The affected people don't become more powerful or more like Darkseid as a result.
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You've got it backwards. You're right -- the affected people DON'T become more powerful or more like Darkseid as a result.

BUT!

Darkseid becomes more powerful and more like Darkseid as a result.

Those under the sway of his version of Anti-Life become an extension of his will, carrying out his objectives, becoming a part of his tyranny. Their souls are brought into the greater power that is Darkseid.
 
TheLastOne said:
Everything is essence, under the Exalted model. if it isn't essence it wouldn't interact with them, because it would't exist for them. And vice versa. Essence is the substance of existence from an Exalted viewpoint, so talking about 'not essence' isn't really a terribly meaningful statement. You could posit non-essence things of course, but then the question of how someone from Creation would see, touch, feel, or interact with that thing has to be tackled.
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Maybe, maybe not.

The writers were giving serious thought to Exalted versus the World of Darkness coming out as a book, which by definition would require Exalted interacting with non essence based existence. Because thanks technomancers! ☺

But yes, charms being fueled by essence to manipulate essence is one of the issues. Even if charms can affect non essence things, running out of essence to fuel ones charms would be an issue.

No bored pattern spiders to reward stunting being another.

How effects that give perfect offense or perfect defense work in settings that have neither is another.

I'd be surprised if more than a handful of crossover stories address those or similar issues. I get the feeling most exalted crossovers rather involve the exalted stomping around like Godzilla, no matter how little sense that actually makes.
 
stsword said:
Maybe, maybe not.

The writers were giving serious thought to Exalted versus the World of Darkness coming out as a book, which by definition would require Exalted interacting with non essence based existence. Because thanks technomancers! ☺

But yes, charms being fueled by essence to manipulate essence is one of the issues. Even if charms can affect non essence things, running out of essence to fuel ones charms would be an issue.

No bored pattern spiders to reward stunting being another.

How effects that give perfect offense or perfect defense work in settings that have neither is another.

I'd be surprised if more than a handful of crossover stories address those or similar issues. I get the feeling most exalted crossovers rather involve the exalted stomping around like Godzilla, no matter how little sense that actually makes.
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The World of Darkness is the future of Exalted, where when you break things down they're all Quintessence in the end, which is just what mages call essence.
 
TheLastOne said:
The World of Darkness is the future of Exalted, where when you break things down they're all Quintessence in the end, which is just what mages call essence.
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Except when it isn't, because they dropped that idea for 2nd Edition onwards. But it was a cool idea though.

Anyway, I've been rereading the story.
Mr Zoat said:
Oh yes there is.
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Considering how the Citadelian remnant vanished, I'm betting they and the Psions joined up with Grayven.
 
Mr Zoat said:
I'd have to do some reading to be sure, but I don't think that most essence abilities would work in a setting not linked to Autochthon's Fate system. Since matter in Exalted is just another manifestation of essence their self-directed ones probably would, but since the Omega Effect isn't essence-based I don't think they could perfect block it. Dodge, probably, but I don't think all Exalted types have perfect dodges.
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The thing about Exalted as I understand it, is that there are very disparate power levels. The basic, green-as-grass exalted might be like Bruce Lee in the movies, but the high-essence elder exalted are more akin memetic Chuck Norris on the lower end of the spectrum. I think solars have an extension/upgrade of their shaper-defenses that lets them project their own personal reality bubble, also in the Wyld, so it would be entirely up to the author to do the relational algebra with regards to different universe mechanics.

In any case, as far as I know the fundamentals of Creation is bureaucracy, which explains how motes of essence is governed by the least gods, much like fundamental particles and gravity, electromagnetism etc., and it's all essence and celestial bureaucracy from there, with each startled yelp from falling on the ice being logged by the God of Yelps, with copies being forwarded in triplicate to both the Celestial Ministry of Falling, and the Slippery subdivision of the Heavenly Ministry of Ice. Or something like that. Whether or not exalted can do anything truly extraordinary hinges on whether the author allows them to project their personal reality outwards.

Many people will claim that it's all conceptual and therefore trumps all, as if Plato held the key to multiuniversal mechanics and authorial fiat, but at the end of the day, the only way to really know is to lock the respective creators up in a no holds barred cage fight to the death.
 
Coda said:
To be fair, he already does that to an extent. He just doesn't create them out of nothingness; he creates them by molding other people's souls Self=Darkseid into his image.
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Coda said:
You've got it backwards. You're right -- the affected people DON'T become more powerful or more like Darkseid as a result.

BUT!

Darkseid becomes more powerful and more like Darkseid as a result.

Those under the sway of his version of Anti-Life become an extension of his will, carrying out his objectives, becoming a part of his tyranny. Their souls are brought into the greater power that is Darkseid.
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Well now we know that you can become a primordial in 16... if you're a colossal asshole at least.

Crimson Doom said:
And this is where your argument falls apart, even if you refuse to see it. There is no evidence that you can take that ability to an illogical extreme in Universe-16!
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... Why wouldn't you be able to? I mean you can do that with literally everything in DC. It's just a matter of binding the object more permanently, and binding bigger more powerful things.
 
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