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Considering that Hinon mentioned Crisis, the characters who survived Crisis Huntress and Power Girl could certainly show up.

Although I guess Power Girl is either not superheroing or doing it on the down low, since she hasn't shown up yet.

As for why Paul didn't notice her with genetic scanning, not all kryptonians are the same. Power Girl's people had superpowers under the red light of Rao on Krypton, which is a significant change, which probably means a significant genetic difference.

Zoat did mention liking Power Girl once, so it could happen.

And if memory serves Helena and Kara were besties.
 
There will be a Power Girl, but not until mid-March 2017. I have no plans to use the Helena Wayne version of Huntress, though if Bruce and Talia have a girl... Why not.
 
For goodness sake man, I'm only thirty four. Unless I start guzzling lard smoothies I've got a reasonable chance of making it to fifty.
It's 2011 in story, not 2001.

I was talking about the hypothetical superheroing offspring of Bruce and Talia, who hasn't been born yet. Even if said offspring were to have already been conceived it's still a MINIMUM of 14 years before they reach superheroing age.

Real world date 8/14/2013 corresponds to in-universe date 7/5/2010.
Real world date 12/11/2017 corresponds to in-universe date 8/30/2011.
A span of 1580 real-world days corresponds to a span of 421 in-universe days.
This means that real-world time passes approximately 3.75x slower than in-universe time.

Which means we should expect to see the heir of Wayne to become active in-story in around 55-60 real-world years, at which point Mr Zoat will be in his 90s.
 
The Riddler is not an idiot, he is one if the best Detectives on DC. Granted is not a global change but is something.

It proves to Batman that gee maybe he has been doing things wrong. That Harvey Dent is not the only one he could reform.

The Elizabeth Arkham Asylum for the Criminally Insane is not a place of healing. If you enter it sane you leave it insane if you enter it mostly sane you go crazier.

And Batman knows this.

And besides are you saying the Terror Twins, basically two idiots with super strength, matter more than one of Batman regular enemies?

Yes the Riddler is very easy to make fun of, but that doesn't make him any less dangerous.
There will be a Power Girl, but not until mid-March 2017. I have no plans to use the Helena Wayne version of Huntress, though if Bruce and Talia have a girl... Why not.

With Talia as a mother? She wouldn't be a Huntress or a Catwoman she would be a pyscho.

Talia is not a good parent.
 
The Riddler is not an idiot
Yes the Riddler is very easy to make fun of, but that doesn't make him any less dangerous.
Idiots can be very, very dangerous. Idiots can also be very knowledgeable.

What makes The Riddler an idiot is that he concocts huge schemes to try to prove that he's smarter than Batman, but he never stops to think about the consequences of his own actions -- although in his defense this is the result of a psychological compulsion resulting from a history of child abuse. His knowledge and deductive ability could have made him very successful in any legitimate field he wanted to pursue, but he chose to pursue crime for no better reason than to have a nemesis that he could demonstrate his superiority over. He also chooses to toy with his foes, prohibiting him from taking decisive action when he has the upper hand.

THAT'S what makes him a dangerous idiot.

If he didn't succumb to his compulsions, he would become even more dangerous as a villain because he wouldn't sabotage his own operations just to pose puzzles.

If he could be redirected to the forces of good, he could prove his superiority through his legitimate success instead of putting lives and freedom on the line.

It would be a very interesting story to see a Riddler that was convinced that the law was itself a riddle to be solved -- if he could solve THAT puzzle, he could prove his superiority over everyone and no one could lay a finger on him for it.
 
The Riddler is not an idiot,

I'm sorry, you've lost me. The guy literally LEAVES CLUES ABOUT HIS CRIMES where the authorities can easily get to them. The fact that the police can't deal with him doesn't say anything about the Riddler being a threat; instead, it's a sad commentary on how incompetent and/or corrupt most of Gotham's Finest really are. Gotham needs Batman for people like the Joker, not for people like Riddler. The only reason Riddler isn't more of a joke than Condiment Man is that Riddler uses actual weapons.

And besides are you saying the Terror Twins, basically two idiots with super strength, matter more than one of Batman regular enemies?

Depends on what you mean by "matter". They don't matter much to Paul's global uplift by themselves, but they are also capable to dealing a great deal of damage to infrastructure that is important to it, they could easily get pulled in as powerful muscle to people who are globally relevant, and they serve as a precedent to other people with superpowers that they might have a chance to pull themselves out of the hole they're in and use their powers usefully. Plus, Paul was already there; the Terror Twins were low-hanging fruit, because he was assigned to watch them and he didn't have anything else he needed to be doing when he started. Once he started, he kept up the process for the sake of completion. This is the similar thought process for Holly (or Karon, I always forget which one was the thief); they were in the area and he didn't have other duties at the time. Everyone else he's tried to reform has had the capacity to do a lot of good if they'd just abandon their stupidity.

On the other hand, Batman's enemies, by and large, are normal men and women content to rule or terrorize a city that's so screwed up that it's astonishing that it hasn't already collapsed fifteen times over. On a global level, Ra's a Ghul needs to be dealt with, as the immortal leader of a group of terrorists and assassins; Poison Ivy needs to be dealt with, because she can do so much damage by herself and because her abilities could be so much more useful if she'd abandon her genocidal tendencies; Joker needs to be dealt with, because he won't stop escalating the number of people he kills, which is enough to depopulate a small city by now and is only going to increase; and Bane needs to be dealt with as a lesser priority, because he may not have a harmful cause himself, but he can use Venom to make easy muscle for people who do. Everyone else is irrelevant on a global scale; other cities deal with their baseline human whackjobs just fine, because they have competent police. So why should Paul care? Gotham City, globally speaking, is relevant only because of Wayne Enterprises, which makes virtually everyone else there meaningless to Paul's overall goals.

...also, why bring up Two-Face? I don't think he's made an appearance in With This Ring at all.
 
He's not an idiot, he's mentally ill. The fact that he's able to do what he does while suffering from his compulsions is a testament to his intelligence.
You can be smart and still be an idiot. I've been that person many times in my life. The Riddler does foolish things, frequently and intentionally. Pejoratively, that makes him an idiot. That he's an idiot because of a mental illness makes him somewhat more sympathetic, but it doesn't change how foolish his actions are.
 
Rapprochement (part 2)
1st September
12:23 GMT -2


King Orin blinks at me in confusion as I rise to my feet. And I nearly miss his eyes flicking to his bodyguards. "Grayven. I'm afraid that if there's something you want to talk about it will have to wait. I'm due to meet the Venturian Ambassador and I really don't have the.. time…" He trails off as I produce my accreditation scroll. "Queen Clea sent you?"

"Your Imperial Majesty, High King Orin of Poseidonis." I anchor my feet to the palace floor and bow, left hand at my waist and right hand holding out the scroll. "I have the honour of having been instructed by Her Majesty Queen Clea of Venturia to serve as her representative, with the aim of normalising relations between your respective thrones."

His mouth opens slightly as he tries to work out a sensible response. A courtier whom I don't recognise swims forward and takes the scroll from me, then swims back to his monarch's side before opening it. I come erect as he checks it both visually and with a minor spell. "It's authentic, your majesty."

King Orin bows his head slightly. "Of course it is." He focuses his attention on me. "I doubt that Grayven would do something like this as a prank. Ambassador Grayven, I recognise you as Queen Clea's representative to the Atlantean government. And I hope-." I shake my head. "Is there a problem?"

"King Orin, you know full well that I cannot accept that recognition. It has long been the position of Venturia that there is no such thing as the Atlantean government, merely an advisory body to the High King. I can hardly be a representative to a body that does not exist."

"This is why diplomacy with Venturia never gets anywhere." He swims past me to take his place at the head of the table. "Would you accept being recognised as Venturia's representative to my court?"

I bow my head. "But of course."

He reaches his chair and motions for me to be seated. "You understand that in the Atlantean order of precedence, it's an inferior position?"

"Inferior to one that doesn't exist? I think that unlikely."

He sits, and I do the same at a seat a little way to his left. Another Atlantean -given the manner of her dress I'm going to assume that she's either some sort of minister or a high level aide- sits down opposite me.

King Orin leans forward slightly. "I remembering hearing from Superman that there was an Atlantean working at your daughter's school. You organised that?"

"Yes. They appeared to be confused by the differences between telepaths and parapsychics. I thought that having someone who knew a little more about magic than well-meaning but ignorant American college teachers… Would be helpful. And I needed a source of literature for Miss Shimmer."

"And you couldn't come to Poseidonis?"

"I had just left the Team under something of a cloud. It seemed to me that going somewhere where the ruler wouldn't care about that made more sense. Queen Clea asked to speak with me…" I shrug.

"That was... April?" I nod. "I had wondered why the Venturian Senators started voting with me on foreign policy issues. I had hoped that it was an indication that Queen Clea might be willing to become less isolationist."

"It was really more… She switched from opposing you and yours in every way she could, to being willing to consider proposals on the basis of traditional authority. If you want to pursue a particular foreign policy objective, then that is your right as High King."

"And what does she get out of it?"

"She hopes that you will agree not to interfere in the Venturian succession. She expects to die in the not-too-distant future and it's been weighing on her mind."

Orin frowns. "Proconsul Ptra of Aurania will succeed her. I certainly don't have any problem with that. If anything, I'd encourage her to reach out to her daughter sooner."

"Ah. No, your majesty. She won't."

His frown deepens. "What do you mean? Ptra is Clea's only child." He blinks, his brow smoothing. "Unless Clea's done what my mother did. Is there another heir somewhere that she's planning on introducing?"

"No-. At least, not to my knowledge. Under Venturian law, much like in the Roman Empire, the monarch appoints their successor. Usually it's the oldest child, but in theory she could name anyone. My knowledge of Venturian court politics is imperfect, but my understanding is that the foremost candidate is her great nephew, Lord Cyprian."

Orin looks at the woman seated on his right. "Majistra, can she do that?"

Majistra looks more than a little concerned. "Legally, yes, but the understanding we had was that she would not."

"That was a very one-sided understanding, then. I got the very clear impression that she'd been planning it for a while but was afraid of being invaded if she made a formal announcement."

"By Aurania?"

"No. By you." He looks surprised. "I'm afraid that after her altercation with your grandmother, Queen Clea became somewhat…" How can I put this politely..?

"Paranoid?"

I nod. "If you like. Where Poseidonis is concerned."

"Where my grandmother refused to let her execute all of her political opponents?"

I raise my left eyebrow. "That's not how the Venturians remember it. And -with all due respect, your majesty- you need to understand this if you're going to get anywhere with them."

"Alright. Then how do they remember it?"

"The dispute starts with the marriage of Queen Clea to Proconsul Philo. The marriage contract states… Well, what it states is.. one of the things disputed."

"I can imagine. Did you read it yourself?"

"Yes. The wording.. seemed unclear, but I'm not an Atlantean lawyer. Queen Clea believes that it sets out that Venturian laws of inheritance would take precedence in the case of shared offices and titles. And the courtiers who survive from the time were certain that it was discussed in those terms at the time. In Venturia, a couple rules together with neither one having authority over the other. If she died, he'd still be king. So, to keep things fair, they arranged things so that if he died, she'd become Proconsul. Aurania's law of course works differently, and that's why they made sure to spell it out in the marriage contract."

"And the Auranian Senate accepted that?"

I shrug. "Passed with a majority. Which should have meant that it became Auranian law. Except… Two years into the marriage, Proconsul Philo died. And that didn't happen. The Auranian Council tried to impose Auranian succession tradition, which passes authority down to surviving children and not the surviving spouse. Ptra was a year old at the time. And given the surprise of his death-."

"She decided to invade."

"She decided to declare martial law on a city she already ruled, after the murder of her husband, its Proconsul. It seemed clear to her that the people who benefited most from his death were the people who were trying to sideline her." I lean back slightly. "Technically she shouldn't have done that, but I don't think it was particularly unreasonable. Particularly when they responded by having her daughter kidnapped."

"They thought that her mother had murdered her father."

"Did they? I've seen the court records. Queen Clea had to testify under truth compulsion that she hadn't arranged his death. They never did. And since all of those involved in that part are now dead we'll never know what their motivations really were."

"Alright. I can see why she did what she did, but Queen Cora ruled in their favour. Why won't she accept the ruling?"

"Because it was clearly incorrect in law." I lean back. "Did you know that there isn't a national minimum drinking age in the United States? Individual states are free to set their own to whatever they like or not have one at all, but if it isn't twenty one or higher the federal government cuts their highways funding. I'm not really sure what building roads has to do with alcohol consumption…" I shrug. "It's just a control mechanism. Queen Cora had the authority to adjudicate in disputes between city-states, which technically included the marriage contract. What she didn't have authority to do was ignore the kidnapping."

"If they were concerned about Ptra's safety…"

"Then maybe they could have been exonerated in a trial. 'Reasonable actions taken under extreme circumstances'. There was no trial. The actual kidnappers and the people who sponsored them weren't even pardoned, just completely let off the hook. Clea might have tolerated not becoming Proconsul if she'd been made her daughter's regent. But she wanted them punished and she wanted her daughter back. And she got neither after Queen Cora recognised the Auranian council as having regency authority and made Ptra a ward of the throne of Poseidonis. And Queen Clea was rather upset about it."

"It seems that I'm going to have to read up on my history. But before I do that, is recognising Lord Cyprian as her heir the only thing she wants from me?"

"She'd quite like the city-states to get more autonomy… Or as she put it 'to have their traditional autonomy recognised', but that's a secondary thing. The second principal thing she wants is to build an airport in the Greater Azores so she can trade with the surface and needs you to reduce import tariffs."

King Orin's eyes boggle.

"She wants to what?"
 
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"She'd quite like the city-states to get more autonomy… Or as she put it 'to have their traditional autonomy recognised', but that's a secondary thing. The second principle thing she wants is to build an airport in the Greater Azores so she can trade with the surface and needs you to reduce import tariffs."

King Orin's eyes boggle.

"She wants to what?"
...did Grayven intentionally make this as much of a nonsequitur as possible? This was a hilariously abrupt gear shift. Sensible thing for her goals, though.
 
I know that I missed a few updates here and there, from the Renegade side of the story especially, but I'll say it: does anyone care about this?
I do. This is following up on an older plot thread, giving more world building for the Atlanteans, amswers the question that ended the last update and clearly shows what approach Grayven is taking in regards to the New Light.
 
Now this is an area where Grayven's approach might actually work well: cutting through political red tape. He will be blunt, he will cut straight to the core issues, and he will not feel the need to bow to anyone.

I can imagine

with neither one have authority
with neither one having authority

at the time

when a they responded
when they responded

after Queen Cora recognise
after Queen Cora recognised
 
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