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"Plus, the only Lantern who could really advise me on something like this is Honour Guard Lantern Torqemada, and as you explained it to me his magic use and ring use don't really overlap.
Really? I'd think they'd both have LOT In common!

True, a great deal of sorcery deals with petitioning/channeling elemental forces, but as Aleister Crowley, (who is certainly a true magician in the DC/Vertigo-verse and was a rival to Roderick Burgess), said:

"Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will."

Guess Torqemada needs to expand and improve upon the paradigms he follows!
 
QUestion.... now that we are playing around with Oa... I'm reminded that in at least one comic, Xenomorphs were found by the Green Lanterns and a small colony allowed to live on Mogo... because Hal Jordon is a idiot who argued they were 'harmless' if contained without new hosts to infect on Mogo.

So is that cannon (or the set up with Xenomorphs existing) for this DC earth?
 
My heart is shattered, and I don't even know what is real anymore. You who carry the will of D do not know of what I speak?

It's a one piece reference. Most of the important people have D as a middle initial. Monkey D. Luffy. Monkey D. Garp. Gol D. Roger. I thought your name was one.
No, i get where it's from, but i don't understand the significance of asking about devil fruit; at best i could have made myself look chuuni by answering that question.
 
They hardly ever mention the wood thing, or even the yellow thing anymore!
Honestly? Those two things weren't bad, especially as ideas. It was just the execution that tended to be crap. Before they messed with it I seem to recall that Alan Scott (Can I just say Alan and everyone will know?) was invulnerable to metal and then someone got mixed up with the Chinese elements (Earth, Fire, Water, Metal, Wood) and made wood the weakness. (Metal actually dominates/controls Wood I believe) At least that was the story I read.

As for Yellow....well DC is big on weakness' and by itself there isn't anything wrong. Just the execution. Like GL's constructs being blocked/taken out by a yield sign. (I saw that shit!)

Also, as Zoat brought up in the story, the fact that the heroes have these weakness', Superman-Kryptonite, Green Lantern-Yellow, Woman Woman-Willing Bondage (Kink shaming I say!) Batman-Being shot in his big stupid face, and yet do nothing to mitigate the issue is just dumb.

It's like when Frank Miller did that absolutely STUPID thing where Batman and Robin paint a house yellow, paint themselves yellow, and drink lemonade while Trolling Hal. (so that 12 year old Robin can steal Hal's ring and then nearly kill him by crushing his throat. Because srs guiz, supers are lame) Instead of standing there like a big impotent dunce, Hal should have gone. "Huh...yellow....never seen that before." *Goes back outside and uses his ring to pick up a large, steel object before smashing the house to pieces.*
 
It's like when Frank Miller did that absolutely STUPID thing where Batman and Robin paint a house yellow, paint themselves yellow, and drink lemonade while Trolling Hal. (so that 12 year old Robin can steal Hal's ring and then nearly kill him by crushing his throat. Because srs guiz, supers are lame) Instead of standing there like a big impotent dunce, Hal should have gone. "Huh...yellow....never seen that before." *Goes back outside and uses his ring to pick up a large, steel object before smashing the house to pieces.*
case in point:
I recall one of the first issues of Infinity Inc. (back in the 80s), where the team is fighting the (mind controlled) JSA in the villain's mountain lair. Superman, assuming that Jade's powers are similar to Green Lantern's (Alan Scott), flies off momentarily and comes back with a big tree to use as a weapon. So Jade creates a giant hand, rips a big mainframe style computer off the wall, and blocks with that.
 
QUestion.... now that we are playing around with Oa... I'm reminded that in at least one comic, Xenomorphs were found by the Green Lanterns and a small colony allowed to live on Mogo... because Hal Jordon is a idiot who argued they were 'harmless' if contained without new hosts to infect on Mogo.

So is that cannon (or the set up with Xenomorphs existing) for this DC earth?
The Xenomorph and Predator stories were off in their own universe done in conjunction with Dark Horse Comics much like the various Amalgam stuff was broken off on their own.
 
Honestly? Those two things weren't bad, especially as ideas. It was just the execution that tended to be crap. Before they messed with it I seem to recall that Alan Scott (Can I just say Alan and everyone will know?) was invulnerable to metal and then someone got mixed up with the Chinese elements (Earth, Fire, Water, Metal, Wood) and made wood the weakness. (Metal actually dominates/controls Wood I believe) At least that was the story I read.

As for Yellow....well DC is big on weakness' and by itself there isn't anything wrong. Just the execution. Like GL's constructs being blocked/taken out by a yield sign. (I saw that shit!)

Also, as Zoat brought up in the story, the fact that the heroes have these weakness', Superman-Kryptonite, Green Lantern-Yellow, Woman Woman-Willing Bondage (Kink shaming I say!) Batman-Being shot in his big stupid face, and yet do nothing to mitigate the issue is just dumb.

It's like when Frank Miller did that absolutely STUPID thing where Batman and Robin paint a house yellow, paint themselves yellow, and drink lemonade while Trolling Hal. (so that 12 year old Robin can steal Hal's ring and then nearly kill him by crushing his throat. Because srs guiz, supers are lame) Instead of standing there like a big impotent dunce, Hal should have gone. "Huh...yellow....never seen that before." *Goes back outside and uses his ring to pick up a large, steel object before smashing the house to pieces.*
A large part of it is execution, I suppose, but I also kinda prefer weaknesses that aren't just simple trump cards. It can certainly be done well, but Kryptonite boils down to "Mwhaha, you lose! I have a MAGIC ROCK!"

Orange Lantern is... not someone who loses particularly often, but when he does its not because of some silly, massive kink in his metaphorical armor. He lost his ring to Truggs because, IIRC, he hadn't thoroughly prepared for telepathic attacks (which he knew existed), or at least not that kind, and he got a little cocky when he attacked and noticed and ignored that something was amiss. He 'lost' during the telepathic training exercise, not because of a magical weakness, but because of the failings of those around him led him to desperate actions with major consequences. Grayven has lost repeatedly because he got cocky, such as when he took a Radion blaster to the gut because he didn't seriously think it could hurt him, or when he extended his soul into a castle, making himself vulnerable when the controller of the castle returned.

Another good example of victory without using a trump card would be Metropolitan Man, despite literally having Kryptonite. Superman is constantly given the run-around by Lex via constant, meticulous planning and foresight, and Lex's defeats boil down to failures in that planning, and failures by other characters. Only at the very end is Kryptonite used at all, and even then its arguably just because Superman has essentially no other physical weaknesses Lex could exploit (and not for a lack of trying). Up until that point, Superman is time and time again defeated, not by Kryptonite, but by the limitations of his powers and Lex's meticulous nature.
 
Another good example of victory without using a trump card would be Metropolitan Man, despite literally having Kryptonite. Superman is constantly given the run-around by Lex via constant, meticulous planning and foresight, and Lex's defeats boil down to failures in that planning, and failures by other characters. Only at the very end is Kryptonite used at all, and even then its arguably just because Superman has essentially no other physical weaknesses Lex could exploit (and not for a lack of trying). Up until that point, Superman is time and time again defeated, not by Kryptonite, but by the limitations of his powers and Lex's meticulous nature.
Huh....glad I decided not to read that now.

Not that I disagree with you. I just find that idea that Lex Luthor being any sort of threat to Superman to be laughable.
 
"Um. Maybe? I don't know. I can.. send you a report, but I'm fumbling around myself. Unless we both get time to just… Play around with it together… Perhaps with someone else who's also bonded with an embodiment… I don't know."
Did... did he just proposition Guy? I'm pretty sure he did! AND suggested they get someone else in on it, too!

Paul. Paul, listen to me. The Spider Guild Queen is NOT an embodiment and Guy will know that, no matter HOW you try to convince him otherwise.
 
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My inner defiance forces me to state that I will kindly continue to do whatever I wish, within the rules of the board, and if that includes making comments to the mockery of my home country I will do so. Perhaps you live in a much better area, but the America I know has a EXTREMELY difficult problem with owning up to it's mistakes. If it bothers to even admit something happened at all. The Genocide of the Native tribes, of which I have some ancestry, for instance. I'm also a member of the LGBT community. I've had people openly state, sometimes directed right at me if they know, that people like me should be imprisoned or killed.

That being said. Every country has things they are less than proud of. No one is perfect. I gotta say this, lest someone else bring it up.
In this context, I meant "Kindly" to be akin to "Please," rather than as a command, but your point is well taken.

I actually think it gets tiresome being told we don't "own up to our mistakes," when we in fact seem to dwell on them and have them hammered in our face as if we were still making them. Yes, there are people who still won't, but the nation as a whole? We have every right to be proud of how we resolved many of our mistakes. Slavery is illegal because we fought a war to end it. Half a million people died to reclaim the rights of men and women in this nation to be free. The way American Indians were treated was shameful, and I don't think Americans gloss over that at all. If anything, we flagellate ourselves for it to this day. (I won't go into the current situation, because it is rooted in well-intentioned efforts to make up for it, but its effects are...well. I won't go into it.)

We fought long and hard politically and socially against the Jim Crow laws and other forms of institutionalized bigotry, and we still seem to be told that, because they happened at all, the nation is still guilty. Even when nearly none alive today put them in place, and many alive today fought to end them, and still more are happy that they were torn down.

It's like there's an Original Sin for which the descendants can never be forgiven.

One person jokingly said that they're sure that some would gladly "return the favor" done "for" blacks by enslaving them...by enslaving whites. But in the current zeitgeist of this Original Sin mentality, I don't think that even legalizing slavery of white people for 200 years would make people stop claiming that America's history of slavery of blacks invalidates any claims to virtue those people 201 years in the future might make.

It is critical that we acknowledge the sins of our past, but also that we acknowledge the efforts and successes made in ending those mistakes. We have every right to be proud of having abolished slavery, and of the strides made in civil rights of all sorts. We have every right to reject the notion that we, the people alive today, are guilty of the sins of those our ancestors fought to defeat.

Man is not to be condemned for the sins of his father. Only his own.
 
Huh....glad I decided not to read that now.

Not that I disagree with you. I just find that idea that Lex Luthor being any sort of threat to Superman to be laughable.
Metropolitan Man is fairly different, it basically has no DC lore aside from "A guy with super speed, heat vision, and super strength, who comes from the planet Krypton, lands on earth and fights crime while wearing his underwear on the outside". All of his powers are reconsidered on a rational basis, if you don't mind me thoroughly spoiling it:
Superman is essentially a engineered being, not a literal son of his father; Kryptonians are basically squids, not aliens who just so happen to look exactly like humans. His x-ray vision works using some unknown particle, which can easily travel through everything except lead.

Kryptonite is some strange combination of elements which is only sufficiently radioactive when above a certain critical mass(gas is useless), and operates using the same particles as x-ray vision. The first sample came from Superman's ship, which used it as a power source, and via the work of labs across the country(as opposed to a single supergenius), they discovered that you can crystalize more. Because it uses the same particles as x-ray vision, but in such ludicrous quantities that it causes damage to Superman, it is blindingly obvious whenever the stuff is near him; he can easily see it from hundreds of miles away.

Lex evades Superman by relaying messages through telegraphs, using disguised and coded messages which are only visible for brief moments, carefully using old assets in the criminal underworld, working with Louis Lane (who is deeply disturbed that Superman is coming on to her, strongly) by pretending to write a book with her in a leaded study, and more. Superman knows something is going on, but not that Lex is behind it. And in the end, Lex still wins by luck more than anything; he hid Kryptonite in the walls of his mansion, disguised between lead sheets as simple lead shielding. Superman finds out what's going on and arrives to deliver a threat/ultimatum, Mercy comes out with a large chunk of Kryptonite (unplanned, of her own volition), and rather than kill Lex he decides to flee through the Kryptonite-filled walls. If he killed Lex, or Mercy wasn't on-the-ball, or he even just flew out through the window instead of the wall, Superman would've won.


Also, its worth noting that the story isn't morally set in stone - Lex isn't necessarily a bad guy, and Superman isn't necessarily a good guy. It sort of starts that way; Lex has criminal relations after all, but he had completely stopped that by the time the story starts, and arguably he does far more good via charitable work. Superman is well-intentioned, but the sheer stress of being what he is and dealing with the public gets to him. He ends up killing a mob boss in the middle of a crowd, and by the end of the story is planning on building his own super-prison to put criminals in.

Lex's entire concern is that while he has good intentions, Superman is just that, a man, and is thus fallible. Be it from stress, trauma, or some sort of degenerative disease a-la dementia, Superman could go insane or become violent. And he was even showing some signs of that, near the end. If that happens, it is well within his power to conquer or even kill every single person on the planet. With those odds in mind, he believes that the only logical choice is that he has to be destroyed at all costs.

Whether killing him was the 'right' decision is highly debated, and many people criticize Lex for failing to consider the potential good that Superman could do, but he definitely had a point, and by no means was he a 1-dimensional villain like he often is in the comics.
 
Speaking of which, if they are so horrible in pretty much every way how did they not wipe themselves out before they got into space
They aren't necessarily horrible to each other, just the environment and everyone else.

As for Yellow....well DC is big on weakness' and by itself there isn't anything wrong. Just the execution. Like GL's constructs being blocked/taken out by a yield sign. (I saw that shit!)
I'm of the opinion that weaknesses should be extensions of the person's power, rather than something tacked on to make someone have a weakness where it makes no sense. Superman and Kryptonite is a prime example, as is Green Lanterns and the color yellow. Lantern rings are technological, for the most part, and run off of the wearer's focus and will. Why should they be disrupted by the color yellow? The loss of things that give Lanterns their power should be the their weaknesses, not "oh yeah and they can't affect anything with yellow paint on it". Similarly, Superman should be weakened by either lack of sunlight, or sunlight of the wrong type (although this runs into physics issues where he technically should be depowered by an incandescent bulb or a fire).

For Wonder Woman, I don't see how bondage ties into her powers at all. She's the demigoddess of truth, correct? What would be an interesting way to depower her temporarily would be to make her doubt herself or what is true in the first place. Gaslighting would make for a rather dark story arc, but hallucinogens would work as well and are much quicker to apply.
 
Metropolitan Man is fairly different, it basically has no DC lore aside from "A guy with super speed, heat vision, and super strength, who comes from the planet Krypton, lands on earth and fights crime while wearing his underwear on the outside". All of his powers are reconsidered on a rational basis, if you don't mind me thoroughly spoiling it:
No, I don't mind. You saved me a great deal of trouble after all. Really, really glad I didn't get into that story after it was suggested. No offense to it's fans. Just....so not my cup of tea.

I'm of the opinion that weaknesses should be extensions of the person's power, rather than something tacked on to make someone have a weakness where it makes no sense. Superman and Kryptonite is a prime example, as is Green Lanterns and the color yellow. Lantern rings are technological, for the most part, and run off of the wearer's focus and will. Why should they be disrupted by the color yellow? The loss of things that give Lanterns their power should be the their weaknesses, not "oh yeah and they can't affect anything with yellow paint on it". Similarly, Superman should be weakened by either lack of sunlight, or sunlight of the wrong type (although this runs into physics issues where he technically should be depowered by an incandescent bulb or a fire).
While I agree, I do try to cut some slack given the age of the writing and the problem they were trying to solve. I'm a Marvel guy anyway...or...well was. Again, I much prefer Alan. A magic ring just does it for me then a techno one (which later gained a quasi mystical...thing about it)

For Wonder Woman, I don't see how bondage ties into her powers at all. She's the demigoddess of truth, correct? What would be an interesting way to depower her temporarily would be to make her doubt herself or what is true in the first place. Gaslighting would make for a rather dark story arc, but hallucinogens would work as well and are much quicker to apply.
I think, I THINK, it had something to do with her allowing a man to bind her which....angered the goddess' that empowered her....I don't know. It was stupid and I'm glad they got rid of it. Although now I hear that she's weak to...piercing? (Freudian much?) which is why she blocks bullets and cuts. Which....makes no god damn sense. She can take a punch from a Superman Level foe like Mongol after all.
 
I thought it was just that, because her lasso is indestructible and inescapable, turning her own greatest tool against her (by tying her up) actually worked just as well as it does on anybody else.
 
I thought it was because the guy who created her was a creep, creating softcore porn in comic book form.

I mean, by all means tie up whatever you want in private, but DC isn't that type of comic book.
 
He wasn't a creep, he was just... Into some novel stuff.
Hey, I mean it, novel stuff is a-ok. Just don't purposefully expose random other people to it, because chances are they probably don't like the same novel stuff. That's what makes a creep - forcing it upon others.


A feminist creep who also invented the lie detector.
Wait, really?

Wikipedia said:
Despite his predecessor's contributions, Marston styled himself the "father of the polygraph." (Today he is often equally or more noted as the creator of the comic book character Wonder Woman.)

Huh, I'll be damned. The guy who wrote a comic about a woman with a lie detecting lasso invented the modern lie detector.
 
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