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Looking her up, only female Psions are capable of empathy. And they spend their lives being constantly raped by the males. However, it appears in this story that they don't have females anymore:

Yes, I recall the rape pens from when I mentioned it only a few pages ago, thank you, I haven't fallen into early senility. ☺

And nowhere did the story say there aren't female Psions, it just established they don't reproduce naturally. Neither did Krypton in some iterations, that didn't make Supergirl a biological male.

Making her a Psion who just happens to be female and not a psychopath would be a miniscule change in comparison to changing Wonder Woman's species like Zoat did.
 
Two points: I actually feel a little bad for Tren, because he seems like a kid who pulls wings off of flies because his psychopathic daddy tells him how smart he is for doing so. He really did seem...innocent. Not kind or good, mind. Innocent.
Grayven himself noted that Tren was young. Given his upbringing, practising biology on sentient beings probably seemed equivalent to us practising on dead frogs. How many nine-year-olds with supportive parental figures are likely to insist that My Species Doth Protest Too Much?

Seems to me that rather than requiring an inherent and unquestioned respect for life, the correct approach would be to make a reasoned argument for it.
 
Grayven himself noted that Tren was young. Given his upbringing, practising biology on sentient beings probably seemed equivalent to us practising on dead frogs. How many nine-year-olds with supportive parental figures are likely to insist that My Species Doth Protest Too Much?

Seems to me that rather than requiring an inherent and unquestioned respect for life, the correct approach would be to make a reasoned argument for it.

Ah, but that would be the paragon approach. Can they learn respect for life, or at least learn to fake it? Are they mentally flexible enough to spare as long as the right incentives are created?

Renegade is going biblical. Can you find ten good men.
 
It's actually a Blade Runner reference; I don't know if Pratchett parodies the same source, it's been a while since I've read Small Gods but this is definitely the Voight-Kampff test. I believe the idea is that it measures stress response while asking a human-imitator to justify an inhuman act.
The Voight-Kampff test is, in turn, a Turing test; it tests for an ability to feel empathy.
 
I've always had issue with the tortoise question, ever since I first heard it. "This is a stupid hypothetical question. There's not enough information to determine why I'm doing what you're telling me I'm doing, and so I have no idea if you're even right about me doing it." Any AI capable of deceiving a human in normal daily life for longer than a standard Eliza interaction would just reject the hypothetical. It's EASY to reject; it's the basic defense against flawed assumption problems. And it's a human reaction as well.

"Why did you turn it over, and why aren't you helping it?" "Because I'm being mind-controlled by the narrator. As to why you're making me do this, I am unsure. However, when I am freed, I will be exacting my revenge upon you for your mind-control."
 
Do-Over (part 5)
13th August
09:35 GMT -6


I fire first, a brilliant beam of super hot ions burning down the tunnel. The drones aren't even in sight yet but the explosion as the beam hits the far side of the tunnel sends vaporised… Whatever these tunnels are made of into the drone swarm. The damage from that combined with the fact that the beam heated and ionised the air that it passed through means that the drone swarm that opens up with its direct fire weapons at me is somewhat less devastating than their factory specifications suggest that they should be.

Lasers lance through the air towards me as the Spherecycle starts flying in an evasive loop. Most are still on target, construct shields absorbing or reflecting about ninety five percent and the rest tracing lines across my body armour. Nothing like powerful enough to hurt me. Charge the gun and fire-.

AGH! Right in the-! Ow! Right in the eyes! Technically a vulnerable spot but not vulnerable enough! My construct barriers fracture, their shards flying at the drone swarm with absolute precision as I fire again and again!

Ping.

This
is exactly why we don't do it like this! It's so inefficient! Gods do not fight mindless, soulless drones!

A handful of drones survive and fall back. A few of them are the ones with hyperkinetic launchers who expended their ordnance early. The others… Heavily shielded. Command relays or monitoring drones.

Hm.

Grapple.

The clamp construct flies away from me as the Spherecycle stops evading and accelerates down the tunnel. The drones attempt an evasive flight path but construct tethers move at the speed of ring calculation. A drone that's slightly bulkier than the rest is yanked out of the air and there's a crackle as its motor systems overheat and fry themselves. The Sphere fires her onboard weapons at what's left of the swarm as I drag the captured drones back towards us while simultaneously connecting the ring to Mother Box in order to get control of the thing. If this is a monitor drone it should have a connection to a control room somewhere…

Ping.

Good, thank you. Is it two way or are they just monitoring it while the drone follows a pre-programmed behavioural pattern?

Ping.

Use one of their low-grade encryption systems. I don't want them not understanding this.

Ping.

I generate a construct phone handset. "This is Grayven, who am I talking to?"

There's a brief pause as the Sphere hits another drone with her guns.

"I am General Farrn. And you are the short lived alien insect currently scurrying beneath our planet."

I dismiss the fusion cannon construct with a waggle of my arm. "Point of fact, I'm a New God from Apokolips. New Genesis is the place with the Bugs."

"I will bear that in mind. Please remain where you are so that our next wave can locate you."

Mother Box, any chance we can track his location?

Ping.

"While you're getting them ready, I was wondering if you could answer a few questions for me?"

"I have no idea what a Tortoise is either. I do not perform dissections myself. Though I may condescend to spectate when a specialist goes to work on you."

"Alright, not Tortoises. How would you characterise your relationship with the local alien species?" Boast of your conquests.

"Useful brutes and test subjects, often both together. Is that why you're doing this? Altruism?"

"Sort of. I suppose that I have different ideas about the best way to operate a stellar nation."

"We created these species. We created their gods and their goddess. Their lives and civilisations are our property-."

"I doubt that's how the Citadel sees it."

"Even the new breed Citadelians are exactly what it is convenient to us that they are. And when our fleets reach.. Apokolips, I'll be certain to mention your name when I see to the slaughter of your people's armed forces and the subjugation of the survivors."

"Hah!"

"Laugh all you want. That plasma creature is already being brought down-"

Quick check. Ah, some sort of exotic matter projector. It's causing momentary flares of energy to be emitted from Brimstone's body but doesn't appear to be affecting the techno-seed at all.

"-and the tunnels are being sealed and more powerful weapon systems are being activated. And is that a power ring on your finger?"

"Yes. I wasn't sure whether using it in Vega would summon the Beast to wherever I was or not, so I thought I'd start in a place no one would miss."

"We'll be sure to be careful when we take it from your corpse. Though I will offer you a deal, alien."

"Oh?"

"It might be instructive to have your body to study. I will give you time to kill yourself. If you do that I will guarantee that your offspring will be kept alive indefinitely."

The clamp disappears and the drone drops for a moment before a new one appears to replace it.

"My offspring?"

"The small alien in the rear of your vehicle. The resemblance is obvious."

I hold the phone slightly away from my ear as I look.. back at the expressionless G-Gnome. Huh. Yes, apparently all grey people look alike.

"Does 'keeping him alive indefinitely' indicate that you'll be holding him prisoner, or that he'll be put back together every time you dismantle him?"

"Probably the latter, but it's all that you're getting."

I face front again, pressing the phone back to my ear and patting the G-Gnome lightly on the head with my left hand. "Hard luck, little guy."

"A cold and rational approach. I approve. When we take your brain apart we'll try to work out what allows you to think like that."

"I thought that you Psions had already engineered yourselves to think like me."

"There is always room for improvement. The educational phase of our lives may be essential but it isn't particularly productive."

Ping.

Yes, I spotted the implication, thank you. "You spend a great deal of time on ideological indoctrination?"

"Enough. Every single Psion would gladly cut you to pieces, and every single Psion has the intelligence required to solve the problem you and that plasma thing represent. Enjoy your last few minutes of life, alien."

He hung up. Alright, I'm not going to find anyone who fits the 'not totally evil' category in these tunnels. Mother Box, hush tube to that building we think holds their neonate culture laboratories. Let's take a look at what they look like before the indoctrination takes hold.

Ping.
 
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I've always had issue with the tortoise question, ever since I first heard it. "This is a stupid hypothetical question. There's not enough information to determine why I'm doing what you're telling me I'm doing, and so I have no idea if you're even right about me doing it." Any AI capable of deceiving a human in normal daily life for longer than a standard Eliza interaction would just reject the hypothetical. It's EASY to reject; it's the basic defense against flawed assumption problems. And it's a human reaction as well.

"Why did you turn it over, and why aren't you helping it?" "Because I'm being mind-controlled by the narrator. As to why you're making me do this, I am unsure. However, when I am freed, I will be exacting my revenge upon you for your mind-control."
At least in my opinion, that would be a passing response to the test, by demonstrating that it was in fact against your nature to do such a thing and therefore establishing (weakly) that you were human. Someone who doesn't even need to hesitate to provide a rationalization for the action would be (weakly) establishing their inhuman moral character.
 
that it past through
passed

ordnance

low-level encryption systems
low-grade or similar; low-level would suggest it was encrypting in a fundamental way.

EDIT: Actually, "one of their weaker encryption systems" would be a very natural way of putting it.

from Brimstone's body
Is Brimstone its proper name, or should it be "from the Brimstone's body"?
 
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"While you're getting them ready, I was wondering if you could answer a few questions for me?"

"I have no idea what a Tortoise is either. I do not perform dissections myself. Though I may condescend to spectate when a specialist goes to work on you."
I love that in the middle of the invasion and annihilation going on, they've had enough time to be all well acquainted with and tired of the turtle Voight-Kampff test. The survivors (if any) will be annoyed at the mentions of turtles for generations to come.
 
"I thought that you Psions had already engineered yourselves to think like me."

"There is always room for improvement. The educational phase of our lives may be essential but it isn't particularly productive."

Ping.

Yes, I spotted the implication, thank you. "You spend a great deal of time on ideological indoctrination?"

"Enough. Every single Psion would gladly cut you to pieces, and every single Psion has the intelligence required to solve the problem you and that plasma thing represent. Enjoy your last few minutes of life, alien."

I think the general just saved his species. If they need to heavily indoctrinate their young that means their sociopathy is not inherent but cultivated. So that young enofgh not to have gone through the indoctrination are likely not monstrous.
 
I think the general just saved his species. If they need to heavily indoctrinate their young that means their sociopathy is not inherent but cultivated. So that young enofgh not to have gone through the indoctrination are likely not monstrous.
By extension, this also means that the next generation of Psions will likely be less monstrous!
 
I think the general just saved his species. If they need to heavily indoctrinate their young that means their sociopathy is not inherent but cultivated. So that young enofgh not to have gone through the indoctrination are likely not monstrous.
Or they are just passive lumps, or even worse than sociopathic without it.

To find out, stay tuned for the next episode of Grayven...in...Spaaaace!
 
I think the general just saved his species. If they need to heavily indoctrinate their young that means their sociopathy is not inherent but cultivated. So that young enofgh not to have gone through the indoctrination are likely not monstrous.
I just realized, this is the equivalent of a dungeon crawl in D&D while the party debates about the ethicality of killing orc babies the entire way. (Not sure who the Paladin the DM has a grudge against and is trying to get to fall in this scenario is though.)

I'm anti-baby killing for the record. Although it's worrying that I feel like I have to put that on the record.
 
I've always had issue with the tortoise question, ever since I first heard it. "This is a stupid hypothetical question. There's not enough information to determine why I'm doing what you're telling me I'm doing, and so I have no idea if you're even right about me doing it." Any AI capable of deceiving a human in normal daily life for longer than a standard Eliza interaction would just reject the hypothetical. It's EASY to reject; it's the basic defense against flawed assumption problems. And it's a human reaction as well.

"Why did you turn it over, and why aren't you helping it?" "Because I'm being mind-controlled by the narrator. As to why you're making me do this, I am unsure. However, when I am freed, I will be exacting my revenge upon you for your mind-control."
You are missing the point of the test. It's not even actually a question, it doesn't require the subject to answer the question of the tortoise. This is a test meant to cause an emotional response. The point is not to answer the stupid hypothetical question, the point is to study the reaction of the person when asked this.
 
I think the General made a better argument against continuing the genocide at all by threatening to invade Apokolips. Grayven should encourage him, it would be hilarious. :rofl:

(Hi, I've been reading the story-only threads for two weeks and finally caught up. Great stuff.)
 
passed
ordnance
low-grade or similar; low-level would suggest it was encrypting in a fundamental way.
Thank you, corrected.
Is Brimstone its proper name, or should it be "from the Brimstone's body"?
He's using it as a proper name.
By extension, this also means that the next generation of Psions will likely be less monstrous!
Well... Grayven will be the one overseeing it...
 
This has honestly gotten downright surrealist as Renegade and his new Mother Box friend crawl across a planet interrogating everyone for empathy and killing the rest... usually while still interrogating someone else. It's like at any moment I expect Grayven to lose his temper and start yelling:
 
I think the general just saved his species. If they need to heavily indoctrinate their young that means their sociopathy is not inherent but cultivated. So that young enofgh not to have gone through the indoctrination are likely not monstrous.
Possibly, but I thought X'hal already bombed them back to the stone age once before. Presumably, that would have interrupted any sophisticated incantation. Yet, here we are still.
 
Mother Box, hush tube to that building we think holds their neonate culture laboratories. Let's take a look at what they look like before the indoctrination takes hold.
So...
I'm seeing lots of cute cheeping baby lizard aliens in Grayven's future. I wonder how much space it will take up in the mountain to bring home an entire planet's worth of Psion young?
 
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