With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

[GardenerBriareus]

Goodness. The guy wants to play tourist for five minutes and suddenly its an idiot ball.

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It rather IS a stupid move, considering he's in one of the few places in the universe where people semi-regularly butcher Lanterns and then make mocking tableaux from their corpses for broadcast to the public. He's essentially walking around Space Somalia, and decided to blindfold himself so he could better appreciate the smell of a local vendor's cooking.

You'll notice the stun grenade did literally nothing to him?

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If the local powers had responded intelligently to learning that the Beast of Okaara has come to their lands? He'd have been hit with a prolonged artillery bombardment at the very least, if not something more to the tune of orbital KKVs backed by Psion hypertech kept in a box labeled "DO NOT USE UNLESS THE PLANET'S FUCKED ANYWAY". At the absolute minimum, he'd have gotten that bartender and his employees killed, and if he wasn't the protagonist and therefore functionally invulnerable, I'd expect him to have a hell of a time surviving as the government kept escalating and eventually started promising the moon and stars to anyone willing to help them kill the ancient horror rolling around one of their cities.

We could argue he assumed the locals wouldn't respond sensibly because then there'd be no comic book action scene, but at that point we're effectively arguing that OL is either a particularly unsufferable raksha or an Ambush Bug-level solipsist.

and what would he have done if he'd had the translation on?

Denied being the beast sooner and not be believed sooner? The situation would be exactly the same but a few minutes sooner.

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Well, for one thing he'd have had a possibility of not causing a global incident, if only by transitioning to high planetary orbit and contacting the local potentates to "negotiate" for visitation (not like they'd be pushing too hard, either, considering they believe him to be the equivalent of a Great Old One). Also, maybe then he wouldn't be ruining this poor bastard's restaurant.

This sort of thing isn't really new, but it's always annoying.

 

[spencer1519]

Well, for one thing he'd have had a possibility of not causing a global incident

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Four angry Thanagarians charging into a bar and tossing a stun grenade is a global incident now?

responded intelligently

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"Commander! I've gotten reports that the Beast of Okaara is on planet!"

"What's the source of this report?"

"A drunk from a seedy dive bar in the red light district, sir."

"My god, that's completely reliable intel. Fire the KKVs at the population center immediately!"

 

[Yarudazuigu]

"Commander, you know? City damages are on your payroll. You aren't executed only because Beast of Okaara was driven off planet. And unofficially, good job ... but please check more than twenty two times, as it is the number of reported sightings of the Beast."

 

[finbikkifin]

Please OL has become so metal that his name has become a power cord, Cantina theme isnt going to cut it.

this kind of comes close

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That would be an interesting alt-SI. Stormbringer instead of a power ring. I doubt the local Chaos types would be pleased, let alone the Law, but at least he'd brutally murder Klarion.

 

[ElvishPresley]

Pretty sure the ring is making Paul oblivous. Here's what happened before Paul entered the drug-dealing, weapon-smuggling biker shop on his very first day:

The sign over the front of the building says 'Bluebeards Bikes' and has pictures of bones, bikes and women wearing snakes. Not the sort of place I'd usually go to. In fact, I've really got no idea what the protocol for this sort of situation is. I think I'll affect the manner of a polite but slightly daft Englishman.

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Obviously, the ring helped him pretend. Unfortunately, Paul forgot to tell the ring to stop, and it's been making him slightly daft ever since.

 

[Iron Roby]

Paul are you really that oblivious?

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Goddamn moron.

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Stupidity is making choices that are actually counterproductive to your goals. And because no first visit to a space pirate bar is complete without a bar fight, Paul's actions were entirely in line with his goal of properly popping his space pirate bar cherry and therefore unstupid. Logic.

 

[Sojiko]

I was wondering, "What, people the Vega system won't know what Orange Thralls look like?"

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I was wondering "what am I missing that makes OL confident he won't cause a panic for being an Orange Lantern."
Apparently, I didn't miss anything, I just made the mistake of assuming he had some common sense.

Yes. We have established this. Repeatedly.

The cocaine.
The guns.
Every romance option to date save one.

It is known.

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Other than that one incident when he was just starting, it's been limited to romantic cluelessness. Not complete lack of common sense.

Honestly, I think its kind of endearing.

Goodness. The guy wants to play tourist for five minutes and suddenly its an idiot ball.

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When people bitched about him turning off the translation, I was thinking "Come on! He's not a moron! He's just turning it off to get the background sound on entrance. Not like he'd understand more without the translation. He'll turn it back on as soon as he starts hearing people actually speak."

Except no. He outright forgot he had turned off his translation function. Even after hearing people speak in alien languages he didn't understand. That's looking a lot like an idiot ball, even to someone who had absolutely no issue with him turning off the translation.0

You'll notice the stun grenade did literally nothing to him?

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No, I notice no such thing. The update literally ends as the grenade go off. We have no information on what it did or did not do to him. Not that I expect it to have notable effect, but you're making things up here.

and what would he have done if he'd had the translation on?
Denied being the beast sooner and not be believed sooner? The situation would be exactly the same but a few minutes sooner.

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Noticed the panic and misunderstanding before the situation escalated to violence, possibly preventing it. Notice that we have no indication he wasn't believed. In fact from the reaction, he probably was. He just didn't get to explain the situation to the attacker because he didn't notice them until they had already thrown a grenade.



I usually really like Oblivious Paul, and have explained multiple times in the past that I personally know people that are just as clueless as him. But this? This is seriously stretching my suspension of disbelief.

 

[Deliste]

He walked into a bar and turned off his translator for a few minutes, then forgot to turn it back on until he tried to talk directly to someone. Completely human behavior. Not making 100% "optimal" "competent" decisions doesn't make you an idiot, or mean you're holding some kind of imaginary trope ball. It means you're a person.

Paul is well established as not being particularly observant of his surroundings if they aren't directly engaging him in some way. He ignores a lot of background stuff and social cues if it doesn't directly effect him. Some people are unobservant. As far as personal flaws go, it's not so bad.


At this point I believe that means its an established character trait that isn't going to be be changing any time soon. As someone with a history of obliviousness and being unobservant, I would like to point out that you don't notice it's an issue unless someone explicitly points it out to you and confronts you with it. And since Paul doesn't really have anyone in-story to not just point out the problem, but also explicitly spell out how the cause is linked to the problem (can't notice being unobservant is causing you problems if you don't know that being unobservant is why you have problems), it's not exactly something he can fix, being completely unaware that there's an issue in the first place.

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I get to quote myself, this is a first and for some reason amusing, thanks.

The problem is that the vast majority of this thread made better situational calls then he did with only the information he personally narrated, this is basic body language and social awareness not some need to remember a specific fact.

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It's not that he forgot his umbrella, it's that he walked outside and thought "sure is warm out here, I'm sweating up already".

 

[pedanterrific]

He turned off the translation, okay, but did he turn off empathic vision too? Shouldn't he have noticed everyone suddenly turning yellow when they saw him?

 

[Angelform]

10th July
15:06 GMT -5

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"It was at that moment Paul knew, he screwed up."

Odd that he didn't check for info on Orange Lanterns when he skimmed the local datanet. It is rather why he is in the area.

I have to wonder what 'heavily armed' entails. N'th metal power armour might make them capable of fighting a Lantern but typical Thanagarian equipment is woefully inadequate.

 

[stsword]

That would be an interesting alt-SI. Stormbringer instead of a power ring. I doubt the local Chaos types would be pleased, let alone the Law, but at least he'd brutally murder Klarion.

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Lacking magic skill for Stormbringer to channel life force into, not to mention that the typical Paul wouldn't be keen on a blood sacrifice power up anyway, that wouldn't seem in the same ballpark as a lantern ring.

The Tinker's bag of tricks would seem more appropriate. For those of you who haven't read Unwritten (which I imagine is probably most of you) he's basically like Kid Eternity, except he summons objects from myths/legends/stories instead of people.

Thor's belt of strength, seven league boots, all the swords from Excalibur to Stormbringer, Gawain's girdle of invincibility, etc, etc.

 

[Chaos Blade]

...They were going to attack motherfucking Larfleeze with 4 Thanagarians?
So, uh, guess it's not just JL(U) Shayera who's awful at that whole "not suicidally rushing at someone who is better than you" thing.

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Maybe they are carrying satchel charges of some super explosive compound? Would still make them suicidal, but at least less stupid... (ish)

 

[Yog]

Or maybe they are there for some unrelated reason. I mean, it's a seedy (I think) bar, right? So, there are probably people there who have other people after them.

 

[lancelot]

At this point I believe that means its an established character trait that isn't going to be be changing any time soon. As someone with a history of obliviousness and being unobservant, I would like to point out that you don't notice it's an issue unless someone explicitly points it out to you and confronts you with it. And since Paul doesn't really have anyone in-story to not just point out the problem, but also explicitly spell out how the cause is linked to the problem (can't notice being unobservant is causing you problems if you don't know that being unobservant is why you have problems), it's not exactly something he can fix, being completely unaware that there's an issue in the first place.

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It HAS been pointed out to him multiple times. If this is a running gag it stopped being remotely funny a long time ago. Instead I'm wondering if Paul is supposed to have Aspergers and if he isn't I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Chaoswind]

Its either arrogance, or stupidity... He decides to not go cloaked in the ONE place the residents may easily notice what he is, then follows that stupid decision by summoning a few construct lanterns as body guards, even though lantern green man told him most of the construct Lanterns where active inside VEGA when they where searching for him (with Blume and a few others being the only ones that left Vega).

The conga line is then finished by turning off ring translation.

Meh.

 

[FourthPear]

This is the guy who walked into a drug dealing biker bar and asked if they had any clothes for sale. From the looks of things, he hasn't changed much at all.

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Oh my Giant Orange Snake, he does this on every planet he visits! Thank god M'gann kept him on such a tight leash on Mars!

 

[shepsquared]

I don't think I'm the only person getting sick and fucking tired of his rampant stupidity. There is being obvious, and then there is being a fucking moron. And what's worse is that it never changes it happens over and over and over again without ever learning anything from his many many fuck ups.

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I don't think I'm the only person getting sick and fucking tired of this rampant whinging. There is offering legitimate criticism, and then there is being a fucking moron. And what's worse is that it never changes it happens over and over and over again without anyone ever learning anything from the many many fuck ups.

If the local powers had responded intelligently to learning that the Beast of Okaara has come to their lands? He'd have been hit with a prolonged artillery bombardment at the very least, if not something more to the tune of orbital KKVs backed by Psion hypertech kept in a box labeled "DO NOT USE UNLESS THE PLANET'S FUCKED ANYWAY". At the absolute minimum, he'd have gotten that bartender and his employees killed, and if he wasn't the protagonist and therefore functionally invulnerable, I'd expect him to have a hell of a time surviving as the government kept escalating and eventually started promising the moon and stars to anyone willing to help them kill the ancient horror rolling around one of their cities.

We could argue he assumed the locals wouldn't respond sensibly because then there'd be no comic book action scene, but at that point we're effectively arguing that OL is either a particularly unsufferable raksha or an Ambush Bug-level solipsist.

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Ah yes, the local power of 'those 4 Thanagarians that happened to be passing by'. Truly they are the epitome of technology and firepower, while the Psions are SV!Competent people with unlimited magical always win firepower

 

[Science]

And this is how Paragon starts pretending to be Grayven of Apokolips!

Nothing. A robot is a programmable machine capable of carrying out a series of tasks. Those that are designed to be humanoid are also called android ("man-like").

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or gynoid.

Also, humans are just moist robots created by random chance, same with all other "natural" living things.

 

[Peanuckle]

I can only imagine that being saturated in the Orange Light is making Paul pursue his immediate whims without forethought. Because that's a critical level of foolishness.

 

[dhasenan]

Oh good, the Thanagarians have arrived. I guess the suits are picking up the bill. Y'know, considering the SI doesn't actually have any money on him. He's got precious metals, sure, but are they valuable and fungible here? They're probably rare and industrially useful, I grant, but the SI went for gold and platinum on Earth instead of iridium because they're culturally more acceptable as stores of value.

 

[iamnuff]

The one sector in the universe (aside from earth) where people might be expected to recognize orange constructs.
Awesome, well done.

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Called it.

I'm starting to wonder (not for the first time) if having a power-ring has seriously stunted Paul's survival instinct.
He noticed and noted when people started fleeing the bar, but never seemed to wonder if he was in any danger.
Even if it didn't click that they recognized the Orange Rings...

I mean, you don't need street-smarts to recognize that when all the burly alien thugs start running away, it's usually because something even more dangerous is about to show up.
Just watching Star-wars should give you an idea of Cantina behaviour.

That said, I'm a little surprised that anyone believes in The Beast.

Isn't he regarded as "just a legend"? Sure, people who go into his cave-system are never seen again, but nobody has actually seen him in
centuries or more.
Then again, maybe this version is a little more active, after Paul robbed him.

 

[melavio]

Paul, you idiot. Once the is over you give that poor bartender enough compensation that his great-great grandchildren can retire.

 

[Fandom Flux]

Then again, maybe this version is a little more active, after Paul robbed him.

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He very much is. The swarm of construct lanterns leaving his caves would have been very visible.

Also, I'm going to very cautiously jump on the "this whole scene was dumb" bandwagon. It just feels like a joke that didn't land very well and didn't really fit everything that happened over the past in-story year. Paul should know better by now. He hasn't really done anything this dumb since that first day and even that was somewhat feigned.

Though I like that one guy's rationalisation that the ring has been Grayvening him since day one. That's a fun idea to contemplate.

 

[Tackyseven]

The one reason that makes Paul being socially and situational oblivious a problem is the fact that he's been on a superhero team for a year while being personally trained by the justice league. Combat training is far from everything you need to learn doing hero work. All that training is useless if you can't read a situation and realise that someone is in distress or that a crime is in progress. Frankly it's unacceptable he's still so oblivious.

With robin on his team there is no excuse for anyone not noticing this as a problem. Also since this might make the difference between life and death this is one of the reasons the YJ was made for because it's part of the necessary skillset for being a hero. IMO this makes the lack of situational awareness massively SODB

edit: If Paul was an SI anywhere else in almost any other situation I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem but when you're literally trained by the JL and part of that reason is specifically situations like this (situational and social awareness not that I expect him to understand social cues of races he's never met but at least read the mood) then , yeah...

 

[PaperMache7]

As for him supposedly not holding the idiot ball. If the SI wasn't capable of guessing the consequences of bringing out constructs lanterns in the Vega sector, then Zoat wouldn't have been able to have the realization that it would cause this in the first place and it's not exactly something that's difficult to guess would happen.