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The League member I'm curious about is Icon. The one actual lawyer on the League hasn't commented about the legality at all.
He probably wouldn't be commenting until he has more information on things.

Making judgements on that before you get the facts is a very bad thing, especially for a lawyer who could pretty much lose a whole lot more there.

On another subject, Diana is the one that probably needs to do more thinking.

She is probably the one who had the most direct experience with Fate from the Society days and applied that to the paranoid version. She also hadn't gotten the info on what really happened and probably didn't quite get the facts correct about the specifics of Roanoake. There is a big difference between what did happen (That we know by virtue of the narration that she wouldn't have) assuming that the deal in question was one for that situation where it was essentially Zatarra taking on the heavy work with Nabu to fix things that would have continued as she'd viewed the partnership with Kent in her previous experience.

She also didn't know about Wally and Zatanna's experience from their view of things.

Add that the other league members would lean heavily on her judgement there, it shifts things.

You also have Billy, who's experience with a Lord of Order was with Shazaam, who is a very different character, but would likely be a source of bad information even with his discussions that have taken to adding a bit of salt to it.
 
Oh shit! Sudden realization!

Zoat said OL Would be learning who dropped him in YJ-verse almost immediately after leaving earth.

Hype!
 
What I think?

It's rather tangential, but I think the League needs ways to discipline members that aren't firing them. Like censure or probation.

Not just for this incident... I mean, in canon, what was the League's response when Red Arrow started working with/for the League of Shadows over the time-skip and then moved onto to filching money from the people he saved?

What if he was caught working with the Shadows? Would the League have approved? Did they fire him? How did they explain Red Arrows lack of presence in League matters?

~
Beyond that, I'm one of the people who likes how Zoat is handling this. As he mentioned, it's supposed to feel like a raw, open wound instead of closure. For most of them, they had no idea that OL was at all antagonistic to Fate barring that one incident when OL hit a sensitive subject while bringing up the golem, which some of them may not have known enough about magic to understand.

Far from villainy, I bet a bunch of the silent League members are worrying if OL is under mind-control to have been pulling this. Because without our months of preparatory context, OL probably would sound like a super-villain monologuing about how he pulled this off and has totally legal cover so they can't arrest him for murdering a member of the Justice League.

They need to take some time, let tempers cool, and think over what he's actually saying.

And most importantly, some of the League need to go talk to Zatanna and Giovanni. Especially Giovani. after that, the healing process should start. As it is, it's an open wound that they're cauterizing to avoid infection, but they haven't started to bandage it up yet or let it heal.
 
One point I'd make, if I were OL, is that Subtle Mind Control was a serious worry here. You don't need much, just a "I've answered your questions, and salved your worries" spell, and the entire Justice League becomes unreliable on this matter.

Thanks
Luc "Jack Slash" French
 
On another subject, Diana is the one that probably needs to do more thinking.
---
She also didn't know about Wally and Zatanna's experience from their view of things.
If so, that's pretty fucking negligent - I mean, all of the team file after-action reports, and talking to her adopted son would reveal the team's view of Nabu as an asshole, if a heroic one (opinion of the conspiracy besides).
 
You also have Billy, who's experience with a Lord of Order was with Shazaam, who is a very different character, but would likely be a source of bad information even with his discussions that have taken to adding a bit of salt to it.

I suspect Billy would actually find OL's arguments plausible, just because he knows Shazam is rather fallible, so Nabu falling into the mental traps that lead to what TV Tropes might call "Knight Templarism" are probably actually rather logical to him.

Thanks
Luc "Logical Weaknesses" French
 
So, I was getting ready to write an omake of the immediate aftermath of his departure, went to double-check who all was in attendance, and found this:
Faces look around as I walk across the Watchtower's meeting room floor towards the main table. Superman, Batman and.. Diana are already in attendance… That's the most important part. Guy and Jordan, William, Major Adams, Mister Yao, Mister Allen, King Orin and Ms Lance are also here.
Major Adams is present.
"Recognised, Red Tornado, one six, Atom, two two."
As is Atom.

Icon, however, is not.
 
Thats... not what premeditated murder is. At all. That is planning for the worse case scenario. No police officer that pulls a gun with the intention to fire after the person they pulled refuses to surrender is a murderer for having a fallback if words and diplomacy fail.

I believe there are things worse than death. And if refusal to kill, or in this case to condone others killing, results in a fate worse than death, then you really should not be trying to claim the moral high ground.
But that *Gasps* goes against some peoples beliefs!
Really, the most morally suspect thing Paul's doing here is not telling the world exactly what happened.
Ah. The evils of Orange Light.
Superman and Mom: Clark, sometimes in life we make mistakes. When that happens, look at what happens - but keep moving forwards, and try to do better.
Superman and Lois: Clark, I know you. I know you're a good guy. When bad things happen, you're there to help... and when you do bad things, you fix them as best as you can. I know you'll do the right thing.
Batman is too much an unknown. Alfred will be there by his side, though, right or wrong - if right, to be kept right. If wrong, to be set right.
I kind of want to see Diana praying to Athena. Goddess of cleverness, goddess of wisdom, goddess of entangling the complicated things and plotting a course that joins together virtue and success, honor and victory. We know that Athena is Diana's patron, after all, and right now I think Diana would deeply appreciate some wisdom without having to face her Mother yet.
Also possible: Diana and Alan.

I think we will soon see Paul and Alan, though...
(Maybe Diana shows up while Paul and Alan are speaking, and awkwardly offers her own apologies? She can't... wrap her head around what he did. Not yet. But... he was pushed to it. By Nabu, in part. By the League, in part. By her, in part. She doesn't know what to do next, not yet... but she, personally, cannot fault him, either. Not any more than she faults herself, at least.)
I just realised something: Could he have needed to do this because of his oath? He would have done it anyway of cource, but i mean could he have been forced to do this, or something very much like it, because of his oath? If nothing else it could be a interesting omaka.
Actually, the SI turning up was a surprise. This was originally going to be a briefing pending an investigation by Batman into exactly what happened. The SI chose to make it more of a confrontation.
Technically that is exactly what happened. And what will happen if they have any self respect.
It occurs to me that this has to play hell on his ability to process this entire discussion. I suspect he's going to need to re-watch videos of it in order to actually analyze it.

edit: it also doesn't help that Paul basically avoided the last question of essentially "was your ultimate intent to kill him"
When you think about it that's actually a rather good way to not have biases.
Jordan like rules and order. If the SI had come to him in advance, he could probably have talked him around.
That sounds like something that he would stop being that bothered by once he managed to get the whole "operational security" thing. I mean he would probably still be miffed, and that's all good and well, but the sort of miffed that you get out of your system and then go on to do other things.
The people who wrote it as such probably failed physics. And most likely biology as well.
I am now thinking that they came up with some cheaty heat pump shenanigans. After that it seems like it would be a matter of...well, matter, or rather packing enough of it into the system.
He probably wouldn't be commenting until he has more information on things.

Making judgements on that before you get the facts is a very bad thing, especially for a lawyer who could pretty much lose a whole lot more there.
 
Oh shit! Sudden realization!

Zoat said OL Would be learning who dropped him in YJ-verse almost immediately after leaving earth.

Hype!
No, I said that he'd be learning who made the ring he received shortly after leaving Earth.
In this case, I'm going to pretend that it was the Spirit of the Justice League.
That's rather beautiful, actually.
So, I was getting ready to write an omake of the immediate aftermath of his departure, went to double-check who all was in attendance, and found this:

Major Adams is present.

As is Atom.

Icon, however, is not.
Thank you, corrected.
 
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I am now thinking that they came up with some cheaty heat pump shenanigans. After that it seems like it would be a matter of...well, matter, or rather packing enough of it into the system.



I got curious, but all I've found so far, claimed by wikipedia so grain of salt and all, is that Superman's freezing breath has something to do with something called the Joule-Thomson effect. I won't claim to be able to back that up, or even understand how it would work.

Superman's freeze breath has always drove me nuts though. I can get heat vision almost, but how he has biological freeze lungs empowered by the sun...

I'm just glad my hatred of Batman keeps me distracted.
 
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10th July
15:31 GMT


"That… could have gone better." Hawkman said.

The single judgement broke the silence of the room.

"That little punk!" Hawkwoman bristled. "He can't just blackmail us like that and walk out without a consequence!"

"I think he just did." Gardner smiled. "Kid has a pair –"

"Are we really going to accept this?" Aquaman glowered. "Are we really going to bow our heads and carry on as if one of our students hasn't just used dark magic to murder a member of the Justice League?"

"Yes. We are." Diana said with a heavy heart.

"Really?" Aquaman frowned. "Just because he's your student –"

"My student, and a citizen of my country." Diana stood over Aquaman, her sorrow replaced with anger fitting for a goddess. "And most importantly, he was right. He acted in the best manner possible, and if that wasn't sufficient it was because we didn't provide him with the information to make a better choice. He acted in accordance with every ideal the Justice League holds, except for the ideal of teamwork."

Aquaman met her gaze evenly. "Then as his princess, I assume you will be holding him accountable for swearing himself in as an officer of another nation's state?"

"And you aren't at all letting your opinion be influenced by the revelation of your love child!?"

Aquaman shot to his feet.

So did Superman. "That's enough!"

He held his arms out to Aquaman and Wonder Woman. "Both of you, sit down. This isn't the time to be fighting."

The two monarchs continued to glare at each other. Diana's gaze softened first, and she sat down shamed. "I'm sorry Arthur. That was uncalled for."

Aquaman sat down himself, and let out a breath of air he hadn't realized he'd been holding. "Likewise."

"So… how much of that is true?"

Superman's stern expression fell at Icon's worried frown. "What do you mean?"

"Somehow, when Dr. Fate and I talked, he never brought up that he might be holding someone as a slave." Icon said, with only the barest hint of accusation in his tone. "While he was unapproachable, I never suspected he might be engaging in such despicable acts. This is the first I've heard of his origins, or any cover up by the League. I've heard Paul's side of the story. I would like to hear yours."

"Yeah." Plastic man twisted in his seat. "Some of us here didn't vote Nabu on the League. We thought he was cool with you guys."

"Obviously there's been a breakdown in communications somewhere." The Atom said, not sounding wholly convinced himself. "You must have had a reason for acting like you did, right?"

"Did you truly stand by and do nothing as Nabu took control of Giovanni Zatara?" Icon asked, looking Superman in the eyes. "And if there was nothing you could do, did you then deny a fourteen year old girl a legal guardian and not warn her beforehand that you were inviting her father's kidnapper into the Justice League?"

Superman faltered, and looked to Batman for an answer.

"The League as a whole adopted her as a ward." Batman said. "I offered to take full custody of her, but she declined and opted to live in the Mountain. I have some experience raising superheroes, and decided that not pressing the issue would be the best course of action, that surrounding herself with friends her own age would be –"

"Wait a minute." The Atom stood. "The League? The whole Justice League adopted Zatanna as a ward? Nobody told me when I joined up that there was a girl that might need some help and guidance. Hell, I didn't even know she'd lost her dad!"

"I thought Batman was handling it." The Flash said. "He's in charge of the youth team."

"Him and Black Canary and Red Tornado." John Stewart added.

"Did nobody think to tell her beforehand that Nabu would be joining the League?" Captain Atom asked. "And… did you really not tell Giovanni's friends anything?"

Black Canary's fists curled. "We discussed it with Batman. Red Tornado and I. But... the League policy was to not confirm a candidate's placement until the day came."

"Funny, how you came up with that policy to avoid mind controlling plots." Guy Gardner looks around the table. "No? Not funny?"

"Putting aside the issue of Zatara's daughter for a moment." The Atom cut in hesitantly. "What about Nabu? You guys wouldn't have let him into the Justice League if he was as bad as Orange Lantern said, right?"

Nobody knew what to say to that. The first person to speak would be the first person to agree or disagree with the heart of Paul's argument. And some of them weren't at all sure what their own position was.

"I think you put it just right." Green Arrow said with a sigh. "When you said we should put it aside for the moment. That's why we voted Nabu onto the League, so he could be where we saw him. That's also why we voted the Accomplished Perfect Physician on. His power was part of the plan Batman and Captain Marvel had to remove Nabu from Giovanni. But… the plan kept getting put aside. Nabu wasn't going anywhere, we could get to him some other day. We were busy with other things, saving lives that needed saving today. And Nabu was helping us save those lives."

"I wish I could have come up with a way to save them sooner." Captain Marvel rubbed the back of his head. "I have the wisdom of Solomon but… it's not always turned on. And the Wizard couldn't help. He's a Lord of Order too, and the Princes of Order would have taken away a lot of his power if he tried to sabotage another Lord of Order's mission. I've been trying to figure out a way to save them both, and I've come up with a few ideas… but for people like Paul who don't know a lot of magic, I guess it was easier to kill Nabu, and he was too powerful and too stubborn to give them other options."

"I think that's the attitude most of us had." The Flash nodded. "Wanting to find a solution that could make them both happy. Giovanni's a good friend of ours, and we did want to give him his life back. But Nabu deserved a life too. He was on the Justice Society. Like Jay, Alan, Ted. Like Wonder Woman and Red Tornado. They were all great heroes. And yeah, sometimes we disagree. Hal and Olly argue all the time. I guess we… well, maybe it's just me. I sort of just downplayed it as another argument. Sure, Nabu was on the wrong side of the argument, but he was stuck on a shelf for years, he was going to cool down eventually. And when he spoke for Giovanni, it sounded like stuff Giovanni would say, and I didn't see any reason not to trust a member of the Justice Society."

"We should've seen the warning signs when he decided not to take a golem." Green Arrow muttered.

"Exactly." Hawkman nodded to Flash. "The priority of the Justice League was to separate Dr. Fate, not kill Nabu. That was a distinction Paul, apparently, didn't have time for. While I admit we share the blame for not fully divulging our plan to him and Zatanna, that does not merit such overreaction. Orange Lantern has just killed a member of the Justice League, and a member of the Justice Society, and then blackmailed us into silence about it. If we were in Thanagar –"

"We are not in Thanagar." Wonder Woman glared at him.

"If we were on any sort of sensible planet he'd have his ring taken from him." Hawk Woman glared challengingly at Wonder Woman.

"Oh come on, you can't blame him." Plastic Man shifted his form to accommodate judge's wig and robes. "I'm a superhero now, but if I suddenly started trying to rule the world –" His costume changed into a military uniform, and he grew a very familiar moustache. "Wouldn't you guys try and stop me even if I was a former member of the Justice League?"

"We'd definitely try to talk you down first." John Stewart said.

"But Paul did try to talk to Nabu first." Guy piped up. "It's not his fault Nabu thought he was too chaotic to be trusted."

"Eris…" Wonder Woman frowned thoughtfully.

"Even when he was possessed by the Ophidian, all he wanted to do was be friends with everyone. He's not a bad guy."

"Would a good guy keep this a secret for eight months?" Superman asked. "What I saw here today was not the same Orange Lantern I've seen for the past year. Only Supervillains rant about how their actions were justified."

"So what do we do about this?" Captain Atom asked. "Clearly letting him join the League is off the table, but as for additional disciplinary action..."

"I'm sorry, but are you really suggesting we turn this on Paul?" Green Arrow asked.

"We did go through a lot of effort to get that giant snake out of him." Captain Marvel pointed out. "And I don't think he realizes how dangerous that was, or why we were able to act so quickly. Is it so wrong that he expects us to do the same for Zatara?"

"I'm still a little stuck on the idea that Zatanna's father got kidnapped and you decided to just let her do whatever." The Atom said.

"That wasn't Paul's fault, that was on us." Hawkman said. "What matters is his blatant opposition of the Justice League. He'd be nothing without us, but after taking him under our wing for a year and teaching him all we know he repays us with assassination?"

"Wow." Red Arrow rolled his eyes. "After a year going above and beyond the call of duty on the kiddy team, to the point where we trusted him enough to do a critique on the Justice League, he gets it into his head that maybe he can take on a supervillain without you holding his hand. What a shocker."

"No." Aquaman shook his head. "I agree he needs to be punished somehow, but we can't kick him off the League. If he ever goes rogue, he needs to be somewhere we can see him."

"Because that worked out so well for Nabu." Captain Marvel rolled his eyes.

"Now that we can see the signs, we should be able to stop him from going rogue." Black Canary added.

"We can't let him join the League after he just killed a member!" Hal Jordan roared.

"I agree." Superman said. "His goals may be admirable, but his methods are questionable. And if he can't trust us, how can we trust him?"

"Trust is not given freely." Wonder Woman sagged in her chair. "It is earned."

"Paul was trying to be diplomatic." The Martian Manhunter said. "He was terrified of burning his bridges here. He is friends with many of us, and many times tried to silence himself, only to be propelled forward by the lasso. Flash is right, friends sometimes fight with each other. His anger should not be taken as a sign that he is a burgeoning supervillain. If he has not trusted us with his anger for the past months, then we must ask what we have done that warranted his lack of faith."

"You want to know why he didn't tell us?" Hal fumed. "It's because he was still under oath to obey Wonder Woman and Batman, and he decided to just avoid telling them instead of risk admitting he was wrong!"

"He was no longer bound by his oath except by his own honor." Wonder Woman defended him.

"Then why else would he spring his trap now?" Hal snapped. "So he could say to our faces 'at least I kept my word' while doing everything else he could to circumvent –"

The Martian Manhunter stood up. "Orange Lantern did not –"

Superman slammed his hand against the table. "Just ask Paul's friend Luthor about looking good while committing –"

"So what if they're friends, Batman's married to a super –"

"Let's not start attacking character –"

"He killed a man, why are we talking about -"

"Enough."

The table fell silent. All eyes turned to Batman as he stood.

"This meeting was meant to be a briefing. It is not a court martial. It is not an inquiry or disciplinary meeting. This meeting is not even about whether Orange Lantern should be disciplined. And even if it were, Orange Lantern is not a member of the Justice League. Only Diana has the authority to punish him without resorting to arrest."

"This meeting was meant to ascertain the facts of what happened, pending an investigation. And we will investigate." He turned to Wonder Woman. "I trust you will look into Eris?" Diana nodded. "Black Canary, you will speak to Zatanna. I will investigate the other participants of the…" For a moment, Batman mulled over using 'arrest' or using 'ambush'. "…Incident. Accomplished Perfect Physician will see to the state of Zatara's health."

"We will then reconvene, and share our findings with the League. At which point we will hold a meeting to decide what direction the League as a whole will take, in regards to what we will be telling the world, what our relationship is with Orange Lantern, and… what our goals are moving forward. What our policies will be, as a League, in regards to Justice. Whether it's Nabu, Orange Lantern, Red Inferno, Red Arrow, Canis Minor, Swamp Thing, or my wife… we have always practiced a certain amount of forgiveness alongside Justice. We need to come to a decision on when and why we choose to forgive. How we do our jobs must be decided on."

"I advise you all to think long and hard about what you want to say during that meeting. I advise you to do your own investigations. Ask yourself what you think is right. Ask Paul, while he's still on planet. Ask the members of the Justice Society. Ask the youth team. Until we decide on a course of action the details must be kept secret, but ask your friends and family, in general terms. Remember your past interactions with Orange Lantern, and ask yourself what has changed. His outburst was unexpected, and many of us are off balance. Take the time to center yourselves. We will come to a decision reached by debate, not by childish argument."

"Meeting adjourned."
 
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I just realised something: Could he have needed to do this because of his oath? He would have done it anyway of cource, but i mean could he have been forced to do this, or something very much like it, because of his oath? If nothing else it could be a interesting omaka.

In a sense. Keeping it quiet from the League (and more specifically, Batman), certainly. Nabu needed to be completely unaware of the plan and letting Leaguers know could have endangered that. However, Batman or Wonder Woman ordering him to stop... Not only would that have been an unacceptable outcome, it would have been an unforgivable betrayal in his eyes. Of him, of Zatanna, of Giovanni and of everything they themselves stand for. After what they've already done, he can't shake the possibility that they might even go that far. So he didn't give them the chance.
 
"That… could have gone better." Hawkman said.

The single judgement broke the silence of the room.

"That little punk!" Hawkwoman bristled. "He can't just blackmail us like that and walk out without a consequence!"

"I think he just did." Gardner smiled. "Kid has a pair –"

"Are we really going to accept this?" Aquaman glowered. "Are we really going to carry on as if one of our students hasn't just used dark magic to murder a member of the Justice League?"

"Yes. We are." Diana said with a heavy heart.

"Really?" Aquaman frowned. "Just because he's your student –"

"My student, and a citizen of my country." Diana stood over Aquaman, her sorrow replaced with anger fitting for a goddess. "And most importantly, he was right. He acted in the best manner possible, and if that wasn't sufficient it was because we didn't provide him with the information to make a better choice. He acted in accordance with every ideal the Justice League holds, except for the ideal of teamwork."

Aquaman met her gaze evenly. "Then as his princess, I assume you will be holding him accountable for swearing himself in as an officer of another nation's state?"

"And you aren't at all letting your opinion be influenced by the revelation of your love child!?"

"That's enough!" Superman and Aquaman stood as one. Superman held his arms out to both of them. "Both of you, sit down. This isn't the time to be fighting."

The two monarchs continued to glare at each other. Diana's gaze softened first, and she sat down shamed. "I'm sorry Arthur. That was uncalled for."

Aquaman sat down himself, and let out a breath of air he hadn't realized he'd been holding. "Likewise."

"So… how much of that is true?"

Superman's stern expression faltered as he looked at Icon. "What do you mean?"

"Well, a lot of this is news to me!" He said with the same worried frown.

"Yeah." Plastic man twisted in his seat. "Some of us here didn't vote Nabu on the League. We thought he was cool with you guys."

"Yes, how much of what he said was accurate on your side?" The Atom asked. "I get there's been a breakdown in communications somewhere. You must have had a reason for acting like you did, right?"

"Did you really not give a fourteen year old girl a legal guardian?" Icon asked, looking Superman in the eyes.

Superman faltered, and looked at Batman.

"The League as a whole adopted her as a ward." Batman said. "I offered to take full custody of her, but she declined and opted to live in the Mountain. I have some experience raising superheroes, and decided that not pressing the issue would be the best course of action, that surrounding herself with friends her own age would be –"

"Wait a minute." Icon stood. "The League? The whole Justice League adopted Zatanna as a ward? Nobody told me when I joined up that there was a girl that might need some help and guidance. Hell, I didn't even know she'd lost her dad!"

"I thought Batman was handling it." The Flash said. "He's in charge of the youth team."

"Him and Black Canary and Red Tornado." John Stewart added.

"Did nobody think to tell her beforehand that Nabu would be joining the League?" Captain Atom asked. "And… did you really not tell Giovanni's friends anything?"

Black Canary's fists were curled as she answered. "We discussed it with Batman. Red Tornado and I. But... the League policy was to not confirm a candidate's placement until the day came."

"Funny, how you came up with that policy to avoid mind controlling plots." Guy Gardner looks around the table. "No? Not funny?"

"Putting aside the issue of Zatara's daughter for a moment." The Atom cut in hesitantly. "What about Nabu? You guys wouldn't have let him into the Justice League if he was as bad as Orange Lantern said, right?"

Nobody knew what to say to that. The first person to speak would be the first person to agree or disagree with the heart of Paul's argument. And some of them weren't at all sure what their own position was.

"I think you put it just right." Green Arrow said with a sigh. "When you said we should put it aside for the moment. That's why we voted Nabu onto the League, so he could be where we saw him. That's also why we voted the Accomplished Perfect Physician on. His power was part of the plan Batman and Captain Marvel had to remove Nabu from Giovanni. But… the plan kept getting put aside. Nabu wasn't going anywhere, we could get to him some other day. We were busy with other things, saving lives that needed saving today. And Nabu was helping us save those lives."

"I wish I could have come up with a way to save them sooner." Captain Marvel rubbed the back of his head. "I have the wisdom of Solomon but… it's not always turned on. And the Wizard couldn't help. He's a Lord of Order too, and the Princes of Order would have taken away a lot of his power if he tried to sabotage another Lord of Order's mission. I've been trying to figure out a way to save them both, and I've come up with a few ideas… but for people like Paul who don't know a lot of magic, I guess it was easier to kill Nabu, and he was too powerful and too stubborn to give them other options."

"I think that's the attitude most of us had." The Flash nodded. "Wanting to find a solution that could make them both happy. Giovanni's a good friend of ours, and we did want to give him his life back. But Nabu deserved a life too. He was on the Justice Society. Like Jay, Alan, Ted. Like Wonder Woman and Red Tornado. They were all great heroes. And yeah, sometimes we disagree. Hal and Olly argue all the time. I guess we… well, maybe it's just me. I sort of just downplayed it as another argument. Sure, Nabu was on the wrong side of the argument, but he was stuck on a shelf for years, he was going to cool down eventually. And when he spoke for Giovanni, it sounded like stuff Giovanni would say, and I didn't see any reason not to trust a member of the Justice Society."

"We should've seen the warning signs when he decided not to take a golem." Green Arrow muttered.

"Exactly." Hawkman said. "The priority of the Justice League was to separate Dr. Fate, not kill Nabu. That was a distinction Paul, apparently, didn't have time for. While I admit we share the blame for not fully divulging our plan to him and Zatanna, that does not merit such overreaction. Orange Lantern has just killed a member of the Justice League, and a member of the Justice Society, and then blackmailed us into silence about it. If we were in Thanagar –"

"We are not in Thanagar." Wonder Woman glared at him.

"If we were on any sort of sensible planet he'd have his ring taken from him." She glared challengingly at Wonder Woman.

"Oh come on, you can't blame him." Plastic Man shifted his form to accommodate judge's wig and robes. "I'm a superhero now, but if I suddenly started trying to rule the world –" His costume changed into a military uniform, and he grew a very familiar moustache. "Wouldn't you guys try and stop me even if I was a former member of the Justice League?"

"We'd definitely try to talk you down first." John Stewart said.

"But Paul did try to talk to Nabu first." Guy piped up. "It's not his fault Nabu thought he was chaotic."

"Eris…" Wonder Woman frowned thoughtfully.

"Even when he was possessed by the Ophidian, all he wanted to do was be friends with everyone. He's not a bad guy."

"Would a good guy keep this a secret for eight months?" Superman asked. "What I saw here today was not the same Orange Lantern I've seen for the past year. Only Supervillains rant about how their actions were justified."

"So what do we do about this?" Hal asked. "Clearly letting him join the League is off the table, but as for additional disciplinary action..."

"I'm sorry, but are you really suggesting we turn this on him?" Icon asked. "Because I'm still a little stuck on the idea that Zatanna's father got kidnapped and you decided to just let her do whatever."

"No." Aquaman shook his head. "I agree he needs to be punished somehow, but we can't kick him off the League. If he ever goes rogue, he needs to be somewhere we can see him."

"This is all so…" Icon's head fell into his hands.

"Because that worked out so well for Nabu." Captain Marvel rolled his eyes.

"Now that we can see the signs, we should be able to stop him from going rogue." Black Canary added.

"We can't let him join the League after he just killed a member!" Hal Jordan roared.

"I agree." Superman said. "His goals may be admirable, but his methods are questionable. And if he can't trust us, how can we trust him?"

"Trust is not given freely." Wonder Woman sagged in her chair. "It is earned."

"Paul was trying to be diplomatic." The Martian Manhunter said. "He was terrified of burning his bridges here. He is friends with many of us, and many times tried to silence himself, only to be propelled forward by the lasso. Flash is right, friends sometimes fight with each other. His anger should not be taken as a sign that he is a burgeoning supervillain. If he has not trusted us with his anger for the past months, then we must ask what we have done that warranted his lack of faith."

"You want to know why he didn't tell us?" Hal fumed. "It's because he was still under oath to obey Wonder Woman and Batman, and he decided to just avoid telling them instead of risk admitting he was wrong!"

"He was no longer bound by his oath except by his own honor." Wonder Woman defended him.

"Then why else would he spring his trap now?" Hal snapped. "So he could say to our faces 'at least I kept my word' while doing everything else he could to circumvent –"

The Martian Manhunter stood up. "Orange Lantern did not –"

Superman slammed his hand against the table. "Just ask Paul's friend Luthor about looking good while committing –"

"So what if they're friends, Batman's married to a super –"

"Let's not start attacking character –"

"He killed a man, why are we talking about -"

"Enough."

The table fell silent. All eyes turned to Batman as he stood.

"This meeting was meant to be a briefing. It is not a court martial. It is not an inquiry or disciplinary meeting. This meeting is not even about whether Orange Lantern should be disciplined. This was meant to ascertain the facts of what happened, pending an investigation. And we will investigate." He turned to Diana. "I trust you will look into Eris?" Diana nodded. "Black Canary, you will speak to Zatanna. I will investigate the other participants of the…" For a moment, Batman mulled over using 'arrest' or using 'ambush'. "…Incident. Accomplished Perfect Physician will see to the general state of Klarion, and what the Chinese government plans for him."

"We will then reconvene, and share our findings with the League. At which point we will hold a meeting to decide what direction the League as a whole will take, in regards to any potential disciplinary action against Orange Lantern, what we will be telling the world, and… what our goals are moving forward. What our policies will be, as a League, in regards to Justice. Whether it's Nabu, Orange Lantern, Red Inferno, Red Arrow, Canis Minor, Swamp Thing, or my wife… we have always practiced a certain amount of forgiveness alongside Justice. We need to come to a decision on when and why we choose to forgive. How we do our jobs must be decided on."

"I advise you all to think long and hard about what you want to say during that meeting. I advise you to do your own investigations. As yourself what you think is right. Ask Paul, while he's still on planet. Ask the members of the Justice Society. Until we decide on a course of action the details must be kept secret, but ask your friends and family, in general terms. Orange Lantern's outburst was unexpected, and many of us are off balance. Take the time to center yourselves. We will come to a decision reached by debate, not by childish argument."

"Meeting adjourned."




.... Good lord that's pretty damn good. Few grammatical errors here and there, and maybe something about how OL sent a message to Diana saying no to joining the League, and thus was never a League member (League Associate I think). But damn that's pretty good. They all seemed in-character, for better or worse, but they still felt like the characters and like people.

Good job.
 
he won't do it
we all know the only eyes we look through is only going to be Paul and his alt

Unless it's the Russian guy who's going to become Rocket Red. And that still hasn't gone anywhere. I mean, it would be one thing to have to non-SI viewpoints.. but that was a weird one to prioritize if you were going to have one.

I do hope at least one of the JL members finds OL and talks to him before leaving the planet. If nothing else than to show a willingness to confront this issue and so we have SOME resolution in the next calendar year out of story.
 
The people who wrote it as such probably failed physics. And most likely biology as well.

I'm saying nothing.

No trouble.
actually the breath thing could .... kind of work mechanically. He'd need to use his hands to manually cram air into his mouth fast enough to achieve LARGE amounts of highly pressurized gas. And then wait for the temperature of the burning hot pressurized gas to equalize with his body temperature.

But the end result would be blowing out air that rapidly depressurizes and thus rapidly cools. It'd just be a really awkward proccess start to finish
 
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Generating a massive wind doesn't actually freeze things.

Supergirl 50 freezes things by using her innate abilities to stop the air in her lungs moving, then exhaling it. If it comes up I'll probably have Superman 16 do it in the same way, but it's a function of Kryptonian physiology and not of general super strength. This means that Kon will probably never gain the ability.

Similarly, Kon can exhale pretty hard by closing his super strong diaphragm really hard, but there's only roughly the same volume of air in there that there are in your lungs or mine. Superman can overpressure his lungs, then exhale really hard. But it's not actually that useful.

My personal headcanon is that Kryptonians have some kind of limited telekinesis or psychic powers that they use for their more exotic stuff.

Sure, they do have naturally enhanced strength and muscles, but there's no amount of weightlifting or super strength you can do that lets you outright defy gravity and fly around in the air. So, it makes sense that their other powers like heat vision, frost breath, being able to lift tanker ships out of the water without them crumbling under their own weight, being able to hear cries for help from outside Earth's atmosphere, etc. All those things are more-or-less psychic powers that happen to manifest in much more physical ways.

If Superman wants to set things on fire with his mind, he doesn't go all Carrie and just make it spontaneously combust in a pants browningly spectacular fashion, he conjures up a pair of high powered laser beams to fire into the exact spot that he's looking at. If he wants to freeze something, he mimics blowing on it to cool it down and lets his power handle the rest, etc.

It kind of makes the difference between "This guy can shoot lasers out of his eyes." and "Things tend to randomly explode without warning when he doesn't like them."

Heat vision = Modified pyrokinesis used to create beams of high intensity heat aimed at whatever the user wants to heat up.
Freeze breath = Cryokineses used with roughtly the same control as blowing on a cup of coffee to cool it down.
Super hearing = Clairavoiance, or some other method of scrying, likely toned down so it mostly picks up cries for help or whatever else the user is listening for.
X-ray vision = Some form of scrying power that lets the user look through walls or across long distances.
That one time Superman gained the ability to create a miniature replica of himself with all of his powers (except invulnerability) = Some kind of astral projection or multi-presence.

The whole thing where he can't see through lead and is weakened by kryptonite and radiation could just be Krypton's version of weakness to cold iron or how Youkai are supposed to be weakened by electricity. Just some way that mundane elements can interfere with a given magic system. His ability to get energy through solar radiation could be a combination of a natural photosynthisis that's in his physiology... and maybe his version of 'mana' or 'pychic energy' can be recharged using natural sunlight or something.

So yeah... maybe ancient Kryptonians were a race of space dryads who teamed up against the rest of Krypton's aggressive fauna, took over the planet, started an industrial and scientific revolution, forgot how to use their powers once they invented robot butlers and the internet, and their planet blew up because they hadn't done Winter Wrap-Up in five thousand years.

That, or comics are weird and Superman's powers have been wildly inconsistent over the years.
 
That's been a problem in this story for years, and it's not going to change. Sometimes I've had to go back two or three posts to remember who's in the conversation and then count off.

In this case, I'm going to pretend that it was the Spirit of the Justice League.
I have no idea who is speaking here.


Or here.


Or here.


Or here.

Or here.

And no, telling me after the fact is not even remotely sufficient. You should not need to ask the author who is speaking a bit of dialog, for a plethora of reasons. The first of which is that it doesn't alleviate the confusion that comes when first reading it. It also does nothing for those reading the story-only thread, after all. The whole "X said" or "X spoke" conventions exist for a reason. Failing that, you need to give actual context to indicate the speaker each time it could even possibly be unclear.


It feels like there should be some kind of puase between "option" and "No?" to give the impression that Paul gave a chance for the League to respond before assuming they wouldn't.
Ah. This criticism again.

I'm just gonna lay this one to rest for good. Because honestly out of the countless thousands of posts these actually rub me the wrong way.


Basically because... It's really, really easy to tell.

Look at who is mentioned as speaking directly before the quote:

Batman.

If another character interjects, we cut to their expression beforehand (Jordan, Diana, Supes, in this very update) in some fashion.

Assume all convos are 1v1 unless otherwise indicated by diction or an interjection.

This is *not* a problem. Besides some early installment weirdness or a few awkward cases, thats more or less the trend.

It is a crippling and overinhibitive stipulation that everyone adhere to the stylistic choice of doing

' "Why... why would you do that, Mr. Zoat?", MMKII asked as he started bitng off his fingertips in distress.'

Every other line, merely to indicate who is speaking in the conversation. If you want to do it to show context (like what the characters are doing mid conversation) then that's totally fine. Many of today's professional writers take the same or a similar approach to what Zoat does:


Jim Butcher:Blood Rites pg16 said:
Thomas flicked a piece of monkey flambe off the back of his hand and out the window. "You call this living?"

"Jobs are a part of life. Maybe you've heard of the concept. It's called work? See, what happens is you suffer through doing annoying and humiliating things until you get paid enough money. Like those Japanese gameshows, only without all the glory."

"Plebe. I'm not asking you to go pro bono. He'll pay your fee."

"Bah," I muttered. "What's he need help with?"

Thomas frowned. "He thinks someone is trying to kill him. I think he's right."

"Why?"

"There have been a couple suspicious deaths around him."

"Like?"

"Two days ago he sent his..."
It continues on for another paragraph. Note that the interjections are present primarily to inject tone and characterization into the conversation, and secondarily to illustrate what the characters are doing while they're having the conversation. Not to clarify who is talking.


Pat Rothfuss said:
"Not that I could see," Kote said.

"How many were there?"

"Five."

"Five?" Bast said, aghast. "How many did the other fellow kill?"

"He distracted one of them for a while," Kote said generously.

...

Kote shrugged. "It's not the first time I should be dead, Bhast. I'm a fair hand at avoiding it."

Same thing. Interjections used to paint context. Characters are often noted to take an action or have a reaction to the previous character before they speak.

We don't need
' "What?" Paul said, aghast'

because we can do:

"What?"

because the bbcode is great like that. Same idea different mechanism.

Zoat compensates for the confusion by addressing this He-said-she-said contextually, with the descriptions of character's faces, reactions and actions. He also makes it clear when people interject or interrupt each other. One valid criticism is that there isn't enough of this background info during the dialogue, for purposes of context. This isn't feasible though since that would inflate the already ludicrous wordcount we get, and distract from the point of the conversation. We can just use colored text and italics to illustrate when characters are losing their shit instead of making a fancy description of how SuperFratBro twitched during a heated argument and crushed his beer can into a pile of unrecognizable aluminum slurry.

Everything is there if you pay attention, without any additional filler text. The man already writes about 1k words a day, are you going to ask him to format it in Shakespearian verse and iambic pentameter as well? I would hope not.
 
The League member I'm curious about is Icon. The one actual lawyer on the League hasn't commented about the legality at all.


Isn't he going to be off planet for a couple years? So at the current rate, we'll see the resolution in like 2030? I know you like cliffhangers, man, but that's... can we get a spoilered summary or something, at least?

A summary would also help to give an idea of how the omakes could be written. Right now we can't really write how the league is taking things because we have no idea how they are taking them. The incredibly confrontational way Paul presented his case means that right now a significant number of the league have negative feelings towards him.

For example how do the members that joined when Nabu joined feel about this? Did they even know about it?
 
Oooh, Hal already has critics among the Guardians.

If they found out he "let" a powerful magical entity go around using someone as a meat-puppet...

GUARDIANS: So...you desire permission to arrest Orange Lantern 2814, "Agent Orange", and have him tried for murder-

HAL: Yes.

GUARDIANS: When you are aware that the slain entity in question had possessed and enslaved a champion of your world for over the course of eight of your, "months"?

HAL: ...Wait, what are you-?

GUARDIANS: And Green Lanterns 2814-B and 2814-C, ALSO knew of this "Nabu" entity's actions and similarly did not oppose it?

HAL: WHOA! I didn't say-!

GUARDIANS: You have said enough, I think. An investigation shall be launched regarding the activities, or lack thereof, of you and the fellow members of your sector. We suggest you forward any reports that you may have....declined to share with us now, and in the immediate future.

This needs to be canon. Maybe change the guardian for Salaak, and add Ganthet in background or in Salaak briefing a Guardian (specifically one who is not known to exemplify the sociopath nature of the guardians), so he can look ashamed of Hal and shaking his head.

"It's a matter of trust, you know."

The arguing Justice League members stopped as the youngest of their number spoke, his wisdom shining through despite his age.

"What is it now, Captain Marvel?" Hal Jordan gritted out irritably. "Because of you're going to say something more about Orange Lantern having done what was right, I swear to God I will-"

"No, I'm not saying that." Billy shook his head. "I understand now that at this stage, trying to convince you of that would be useless. No, I'm talking about something else."

Diana stepped beside the faux-adult, placing her hands across his. "What is it, Billy?"

"He looked up at us. He admired us, despite all our faults. Even that time he held unmeasurable power, all he wanted was our acceptance."

Captain Marvel turned away from the Justice League.

"Eight months ago, that changed. We broke the pillar he had of us, and now that we find out about it, about him doing something that in all honesty we shouldn't have needed him to settle, we start turning on one another, turning on him looking for someone to blame."

Diana watched sadly as Billy started to walk away.

"He trusted us, and we had broken that trust. It's time I think that we should make amends."

Green Arrow reached out an arm. "Wait, what do you think you're doing!?"

Billy turned back and looked at his heroes with a sad smile.

"What else? I'm going apologize."

Diana stood up. "And I'm coming with you."

The Justice League could only watch the two of them go.


I wish this would be canon, but I'm guessing we will only see the JLA post clue-bat when Paul returns.


Even with a green ring, ever the swaggering american military man incapable of processing that jurisdictions outside of the USA exist.
(Edit: had an extra quote left over in my multi quote so putting in the comment I'd originally decided to skip)
Hal left as a junior officer, and was a Air-force jet jockey so that's probably a fair characterization of him (his time outside U.S. Territory is on a U.S. base, in the air or in a country with a SOFA (Status of forces agreement), but of late (within the last 2 decades or so) Military officers learn a LOT about "lawfare" and the judicial systems they or their troops might be subject to. In the navy this a practical skill as you tell your sailors/troops what not to do before they can go out on the town and or when/if one of your screw-ups gets caught doing something you told them not to do. For my drinking buddies in the marines and honorable (budget-pie-fight) enemies in the army this is a survival skill.
 
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A summary would also help to give an idea of how the omakes could be written. Right now we can't really write how the league is taking things because we have no idea how they are taking them. The incredibly confrontational way Paul presented his case means that right now a significant number of the league have negative feelings towards him.

For example how do the members that joined when Nabu joined feel about this? Did they even know about it?
Yeah, that would be really useful to omake writers, and Zoat's posted random future info in spoiler tags before.
Extremely good piece of writing so props for that. My personal problem with it is that it continues to take the position that what the SI did was correct and it justifies his actions.
If people are wondering how the league can be split over this, here's an RL case.
"No." Aquaman shook his head. "I agree he needs to be punished somehow, but we can't kick him off the League. If he ever goes rogue, he needs to be somewhere we can see him."
I like the omake in general, but, uh, omake!Aquaman? Do you plan to force him to join the league? And if you did, given his powers require him to avariciously want to do stuff, do you have any idea how amazingly poorly that would go down on many levels?
 
That's been a problem in this story for years, and it's not going to change. Sometimes I've had to go back two or three posts to remember who's in the conversation and then count off.

In this case, I'm going to pretend that it was the Spirit of the Justice League.
I like to just imagine whoever I want if it's particularly hard to figure out.
 
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