- Location
- United states
Yes, because throwing a tantrum like a child, invoking a disproportinate retribution and nuking bridges worked so well for the Renegade who gets shit on for doing shit like this all the time.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
Yes, because throwing a tantrum like a child, invoking a disproportinate retribution and nuking bridges worked so well for the Renegade who gets shit on for doing shit like this all the time.
- Location
- Australia
needed ??
I think she might be suffering from Violet light poisoning...
- Location
- UK
Just to play devil's advocate...
Wasn't Zatana the league's only magic user? If Nabu had decided to just not come to meetings any more, what could they have done? Inviting him to turn up to regularly scheduled orderly meetings might at the time seemed their one point of leverage.
It's also possible they had their own plan, and Paul just beat them to it.
Or they might just point out that they exist to deal with threats normal people can't, amd refusing to work with Nabu on ethical grounds,which could have meant millions of deaths some time down the road.
Wasn't Zatana the league's only magic user? If Nabu had decided to just not come to meetings any more, what could they have done? Inviting him to turn up to regularly scheduled orderly meetings might at the time seemed their one point of leverage.
It's also possible they had their own plan, and Paul just beat them to it.
Or they might just point out that they exist to deal with threats normal people can't, amd refusing to work with Nabu on ethical grounds,which could have meant millions of deaths some time down the road.
- Location
- England
I'd be more worried that they, or some of them, decide they have to kill OL and/or John. Which sounds pretty crazy, but having Nabu join the Justice League sounds pretty crazy too.
Um.
While of course there are other concerns.
Aquaman? Is married to a high-tier magic-user.
And he is the monarch of a nation which is so full of magic users, they're highly relevant in technological circles despite skipping the industrial revolution.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
So, never.
- Location
- Hampden Park
I think it was mentioned back in... Thread one? He had a bad day at work before arriving.
That's all it takes. One bad day.
The League can arrest anyone with super powers. But they then have to hand them over to local authorities and come up with something to charge them with. Bear in mind that the anti-witchcraft laws are so dated it's not certain that a court would enforce them.
Oh, that's still happening. This just makes a slightly better place to put it.
That's the renegade option, certainly.
Thank you, corrected.
Technically, both Diana and King Orin are magic users. Zatara (then Nabu) was the only caster.
Got someone else.
That's... Pretty darn unlikely. As the Milgram experiment showed, people are far less likely to do bad things when those things require personal action and involve direct exposure to the results.
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- Location
- sweden
Now that really seems like the last thing that the league would want. Getting picked apart in court in front a jury and the PR... disaster isn't strong enough a word, PR apocalypse that they would suffer could be a prelude for much closer scrutiny
- Location
- UK
Except that Zoat seems to have given the League the idiot ball, or possibly the plot-rail ball depending on how you look at it. To the best of my knowledge, the League has not expanded to take advantage of this, nor do they seem to have expanded their points of contact with Atlantis beyond Aquaman.
There is a reason we find OL's pragmatism refreshing, remember?
Dakkan Sall
Random Encounter
- Location
- On the world map
Typical result of possessing entities using mortal hosts and not giving them ANY control or input.
"So many things to do, and the mortal flesh is weak. Body needs to sleep; use magic to substitute. Body is hungry; use magic to substitute. Body is rejecting magic substitutions; use more magic."
I mean, there is the alternate where the entity overdoes it and gluts itself on food and sensations, but for a being of Order...
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- Location
- Hampden Park
If it's an idiot ball, it's an idiot ball they had in canon. They recruited Black Lightning before they recruited a second magic user.Except that Zoat seems to have given the League the idiot ball, or possibly the plot-rail ball depending on how you look at it. To the best of my knowledge, the League has not expanded to take advantage of this, nor do they seem to have expanded their points of contact with Atlantis beyond Aquaman.
There is a reason we find OL's pragmatism refreshing, remember?
- Location
- Oulu
Huh. The rings. Can OL now store them inside himself? Inside his soul?
'Cuz that's cool. That's a big step towards becoming a Sailor Scout, storing a bunch of crap inside your soul. Although, usually one goes for mirrors, swords, all sorts of crystals....
He just saw a conclusion and made a mighty leap into it.
Fate wasn't quite the equivalent of Sorcerer Supreme for DC since entities like the Phantom Stranger(if he exists) and the Spectre(if he exists) take some pressure off him, but he was in a similar role.
John can do it now if he can get a handle on the order+chaos thing. He has done it BEFORE with average-mortal-magician oomph, after all.
Tim Hunter could definitely do it, power-wise. Unfortunately, he's a mite immature.
'Cuz that's cool. That's a big step towards becoming a Sailor Scout, storing a bunch of crap inside your soul. Although, usually one goes for mirrors, swords, all sorts of crystals....
Entirely possible. We don't know. Paul chose not to communicate about the subject AT ALL with the League, don't think he even asked Diana, "What are you going to do about Nabu possessing Zatara?"
He just saw a conclusion and made a mighty leap into it.
That's... sort of like, "that person was a pretty good swimmer at school, I'm sure they can take over for Phelps in the next Olympics."
Fate wasn't quite the equivalent of Sorcerer Supreme for DC since entities like the Phantom Stranger(if he exists) and the Spectre(if he exists) take some pressure off him, but he was in a similar role.
John can do it now if he can get a handle on the order+chaos thing. He has done it BEFORE with average-mortal-magician oomph, after all.
Tim Hunter could definitely do it, power-wise. Unfortunately, he's a mite immature.
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- Location
- United states
Except that Zoat seems to have given the League the idiot ball, or possibly the plot-rail ball depending on how you look at it. To the best of my knowledge, the League has not expanded to take advantage of this, nor do they seem to have expanded their points of contact with Atlantis beyond Aquaman.
There is a reason we find OL's pragmatism refreshing, remember?
Find it pretty interesting that people usually complain if the writers don't have the characters acting like their canon selves but when Zoat keeps most of their actions including the idiot balls it's Zoat's doing. Not the person who actually wrote the story including quite a few plot holes that have been pointed out. Example being the Leauge not finding Match which could have been accomplish with two green lanterns, the actual consequences of splitting the world of adults and children and finally the League not doing anything with the Nabu incident which the Renegade calls them out on.
As much as I love YJ it does have a lot of issues when pointed out like in this fic.
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Young Justice was about the team not the Justice League, so some amount of idiot balls and contrivances had to be made to keep the show focused on the team and not have the JL render everything obsolete. WTR and Zoat made sweeping changes to the setting, the tone and even focused on the changing decisions everyone else but the JL had to make due to the SI.
It's where most of my "lack of agency" problems come from, the Justice League are only pulled out from their box when the story needs them and all the other times they exist in stasis. The JL can never grow beyond what Zoat remembers from the show and so we get stuff like this latest stunt, where the SI is actually considering dragging their names through Zoats mud with excuses like "oh but thats the idiot ball they were holding in the show".
WTR supposedly takes each part of the shared universe seriously but I notice a considerable disregard for the Justice League.
It's where most of my "lack of agency" problems come from, the Justice League are only pulled out from their box when the story needs them and all the other times they exist in stasis. The JL can never grow beyond what Zoat remembers from the show and so we get stuff like this latest stunt, where the SI is actually considering dragging their names through Zoats mud with excuses like "oh but thats the idiot ball they were holding in the show".
WTR supposedly takes each part of the shared universe seriously but I notice a considerable disregard for the Justice League.
My take on it is that Nabu by stabing the batteries voided the conditions of the spell that anchored him and empowered him with energy from the plane of order. The spell was a item of pure order it cared not for points of view or motivations even Nabu's, just with his magical senility he just did not notice he was voiding its conditions.
- Location
- United states
...Your complaining that the League is acting pretty much how they did in canon by not looking for magic users to recruit beyond Nabu and pretty much recruiting people that don't add much like flying bricks? That's zoat 'dragging them through the mud'?
Also, it's been repeatedly pointed out that they have tech would be immensely useful but don't take advantage of like a personal forcefield that stops kryptonite for Superman. Therre is also the bit about the Green Lantern canonly fighting without creativity. So far Zoat has been showing the flaws in the super heroes genre and deconstructing it which seems to be a major point for this story.
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Just reminding everyone that Nabu's success rate for stopping magical supervillainy on-screen is only three out of four (Distracted Klarion at Roanoke, didn't help at all vs. Starro-tech, beat up the Terror Thing, helped with Oceanus.)
Most of what he does could be handled by Hal Jordan or J'onn - any flying telekinetic, and his success rate isn't any higher.
And Giovanni was proactively warding, so Nabu was probably a step backwards on that front.
Most of what he does could be handled by Hal Jordan or J'onn - any flying telekinetic, and his success rate isn't any higher.
And Giovanni was proactively warding, so Nabu was probably a step backwards on that front.
My main complain is that the Justice League is treated as an unchanging body except when the SI is involved. That then is used to excuse stuff like the Nabu situation where WoZ is that they are completely ineffective.
- Location
- United states
Geez still shitting on Nabu again?
1) He was literally at half power by the world being split and his host was a teenage girl.
2) Literally everyone didn't help including the League.
3)
4) That was a goddamn Titan everyone was against and no one else was able to do much.
5) No, not most of what he could do could be accomplished by Hal or J'onn. His bit is literally being able to use very powerful magic like being able to nearly one shot Adom, redirect a powerful planet destroying laser or off vast magical advice.
6) Again, Giovani didn't ward the freaking watchtower and no one else including Aquaman suggested it.
A lot of this argument pretty much applies to a lot if not the entire league.
Whenever someone says Nabu is irreplaceable, I will respond. Because he's not, he just claims to be.
Honestly it's not even because I dislike Nabu that I respond, it just really bothers me when people accept the false words of crazy people as being true.
It's why Jack Slash from Worm pisses me off. (Nabu is obviously not anything like as bad as Jack Slash. Nabu is arrogant in his power, sometimes careless, sometimes misguided, but... that's it. He's otherwise a good guy.
But oh man, it bothers me when people think that because he claims to be irreplaceable that overrides the evidence that he's merely useful.)
Much of the League is imperfect, but the rest of them do not claim perfection and they try very, very hard not to cause harm to others for their own gain.
- Location
- United states
Massive problem with this complaint is that they are literally acting like superheroes do. Another thing to note is the very, very obvious fact that they would be exactly the same if the SI never showed up. Where the hell is the WoZ that mentions that they are completely ineffective? Also I added some edits to my previous post that you replied to.
Jamie Roberts
Hávamál 127
- Location
- N/A
- Pronouns
- she/her
You understand that that bit was written by Mr "I-am-not-unfair-to-Nabu,-why-wouldn't-you-believe-me" Zoat, right?
I've said this before, but the problem here is as much with Sir Doyle as with Watson. That last time, Zoat implied that if I wait and see, I'd find that Paul was wrong and it was going to show somehow. This hasn't happened yet, so here we are.
I mean really, I am having flashbacks to Indy!Harry fics here; "I can't believe that Dumbledore doesn't trust me after I only started-delving-into-Black-Magic-specifically-because-he-said-not-to! He must be completely unreasonable, which means we have to kill him!"
Who said they were dead?
Commenting on the edit, I'm willing to excuse this (not forgive though), in the canon portrayal because of the different focus and similar lack of evolutionary pressure to adapt tactics. The difference in WTR is that even after the widespread adoption of wards and other countermeasures by their enemies, the Justice League only changed and upgraded due to the actions and prompting of the SI. I loathe the JL review scene due to the implied naivety and simple-mindedness on the part of Heroes that have been active and saving the world for years.
It would've been so much more palatable* if they reached the decision to upgrade themselves due to changing circumstances and asked the SI for help or ideas or anything else.
*My personal opinion always.
- Location
- Hampden Park
I don't remember saying that.
- Status