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They know what Tamaranians look like?
Yes. John may have been prevented from sharing some types of Corps information freely but the SI was under no such obligation. The Justice League now has a ton of information they didn't have freely available before he nommed John's ring.
I find it difficult to believe that there is no other way to contact people across vast distances in a reasonable amount of time.
There are, but they all have problems. Power requirements, trackability, dark energy build ups...
Presumably the Guardians have some way to talk to each other when they aren't all gathered together, and they don't wear power rings.
Guardians have power ring abilities -plus a ton of others- innately.
Zoat has said that it can be made to happen, but doesn't naturally. I remember him mentioning that when magical civilizations wanted to expand their reach they had a few methods of doing so.
Anything magic you make will keep doing what it does. For example, if you enchant an object to glow it will keep glowing. What it won't do is recharge from background magic if there isn't enough to recharge from. Things like Dolmen Gates use the local magic field for their transportation effect. No field, no transportation. There are upgraded versions that get around that, but they use massive amounts of power and are very very complicated
Alternatively, order and chaos magic work fine wherever.
When powered by a living link to a parallel magic energy universe, certainly. Not quite that easy for mortals.
I forget if any comments have been made to answer this, but what will be the OLC's relationship with the Controllers? This comment basically says they own it, but early in-story remarks said that the SI didn't want the Controllers running it because it would limit expansion. I could accept the Controllers having a large hand in designing the OLC's founding goals and philosophy, and working closely with them thereafter, but having the Controllers in actual command seems like a bad idea.
That's a fairly large spoiler. Negotiating the relationship will take a long time.
 
It's more that he assumes that the Controllers will use their Corps to escalate their already-existing war with the Reach.
That's a fairly large spoiler. Negotiating the relationship will take a long time.
Really do look forward to when OL really does meet the Controllers and from there creates the OLC.

Course Controllers will just be plain surprised that SI is not only not crazy from using Orange Light but is enlightened and has earned the favor of Ophidian thus becoming her agent. Also possibly returning the Orange Power Battery and capturing the one that stole it in the first place.

At the very least after looking over ring records, talking with SI, and other tests then comes the actual negotiating process on making OLC with SI having upper hand since he is the only successful orange lantern so they have to listen to him to make more. Would also basically become the First Lantern of the OLC and be seen more as an equal to Controllers.

Then comes finding members which the process will have to be much more selective than GLs. Gotta grab that AI member mentioned way back and screen the Darkstars to see if any of them have what it takes to be an OL as well.

Should keep the Darkstars around as an auxilla organization since there will always be less OLs around that could use the backup and maybe build something like the Fist robots that run on orange light to help as well.

Sorry for being overly chatty but really looking forward to this and organization process that will come up.
 
Both of those are terrible suggestions.

Yes, they're horrible suggestions. However, I'd consider giving the ring to Ra's al Ghul to be significantly better than giving it to the Controllers (better chance of only genociding one planet), so destroying it or giving it to Ganthet seems even better.

Are you going with a completely different version of the Controllers than appeared in comics?

I mean, they're basically "exactly what it says on the tin": They want control. They deliberately let most of the members of their first GLC-like organization die (the Darkstars, while it was being led by John Stewart) because it was getting too independent. Their ideal corps (the Effigy Corps) was literally composed of mind-controlled meat puppets.

Given that an Orange Ring can actually give them that, an OLC controlled by the Controllers would almost certainly be an expansionist version of Larfleeze: A Controller at top, and construct lanterns being sent out in an expanding sphere around their home, with orders to assimilate everything they encounter. Forget Ra's al Ghul; it's possible giving it to the Joker would be better: at least he thinks small.

Given that Truggs came from a future that sounds exactly like that, I can't tell if your comments all along are just an elaborate head-fake, and Paul is going to get blindsided by exactly what the Controllers are like when he encounters them. If so, good job?

Hell, for that matter, giving it to Truggs himself has a better chance of humanity getting anything like a good end.
 
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As has already been pointed out in this thread, without Dr Fate, Klarion was capable of pulling off "world without adults/children" shenanigans.

After Dr Fate came back, Klarion has achieved nothing even remotely close to that.

Which suggests that Dr Fate is in fact several orders of magnitude better at dealing with Klarion than Zatarra.
After Doctor Fate was back, Klarion mind-controlled the League. Including Doctor Fate, so if Klarion wanted to repeat a plan he could have. Ward Doctor Fate, drag him away to go perform the ritual anew.
If you want to say that because Klarion hasn't gathered four powerful Mages and a magic artifact not fully understood for that specific ritual again, then it might as well be because Paul worked with Atlantis to set up shields and detection systems which could actually interfere with a repeat of the plan this time.
Meanwhile - we've seen that Zatara actively warded the Zeta Tube network to be hard to notice without the prompting of Paul, while Doctor Fate did not ward additional locations until prompted.

Yes, they're horrible suggestions. However, I'd consider giving the ring to Ra's al Ghul to be significantly better than giving it to the Controllers (better chance of only genociding one planet), so destroying it or giving it to Ganthet seems even better.

Are you going with a completely different version of the Controllers than appeared in comics?

I mean, they're basically "exactly what it says on the tin": They want control. They deliberately let most of the members of their first GLC-like organization die (the Darkstars, while it was being led by John Stewart) because it was getting too independent. Their ideal corps (the Effigy Corps) was literally composed of mind-controlled meat puppets.

Given that an Orange Ring can actually give them that, an OLC controlled by the Controllers would almost certainly be an expansionist version of Larfleeze: A Controller at top, and construct lanterns being sent out in an expanding sphere around their home, with orders to assimilate everything they encounter. Forget Ra's al Ghul; it's possible giving it to the Joker would be better: at least he thinks small.

Given that Truggs came from a future that sounds exactly like that, I can't tell if your comments all along are just an elaborate head-fake, and Paul is going to get blindsided by exactly what the Controllers are like when he encounters them. If so, good job?

Hell, for that matter, giving it to Truggs himself has a better chance of humanity getting anything like a good end.
I mean... The Controllers also abandoned several plans because they decided that using Sun-Eaters involved too much killing. The Guardians engage in mind-control (Martians) and holding tight control of what their minions are allowed to do (Green Lantern Corps) and assassinations (the Corpse) too.
As far as Paul knows, the Controllers have a good, but vague idea... execution on the idea ranging from 'poor' to 'not quite good enough but close'... and unlike most other factions of similar power, they have proven willing to compromise, willing to change, and from the situation around the Miracle Machine their long-term prospects seem to be somewhat good/Good.
They're not great, but as people who desperately want what he can offer, are a bit lost for plans of their own, and are willing to negotiate and pretend when necessary that 'Of course this was always the plan. Everything is fine.'? Oh, they're perfect for his goals, even if they're not perfect on their own yet.

Also, the Emperor Joker episode from the Brave and the Bold implies that the Joker may have an unfortunate tendency to destroy on a scale larger than he thinks when given the opportunity - he blew up the sun for a single scene of his song. Possibly more than just our sun.
Truggs might be passable, although he's likely to do a Schizotech-enhanced Orange Zombie Plague. He says he would go after the Reach first, but based on his actual behavior he would prioritize ill-defined xenocidal 'revenge' against the Green Lantern Corps before actually advancing any non-supervillainous goals. Truggs has the right idea, he just... doesn't actually advance it very well unless constantly pushed back on-track by superheroes.
 
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Oh, minor piece of bad news. The part of the story which I've currently got as part 1 of the next episode feels awkward where it is placed, so I'm going to move it back to before the interview. This means that it will be out of sequence in this thread.
*sees second post in story-only thread today*
Huh, wonder if that's related?
*goes to check*
Hmm, it's the same update as I read earlier today. Let's scroll up, and see if there's sneaky content.

No (sadly). Folks, there will be a stealth update in this post sometime tomorrow.
 
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*sees second post in story-only thread today*
Huh, wonder if that's related?
*goes to check*
Hmm, it's the same update as I read earlier today. Let's scroll up, and see if there's sneaky content.

No (sadly). Folks, there will be a stealth update in this post sometime tomorrow.
What, you got the date and time. What more do you want?
Are you going with a completely different version of the Controllers than appeared in comics?
Not exactly. All of the Controllers who thought those things were good ideas are still around, and I suspect that the SI will be butting heads with them. The difference is that there are many other Controllers, and the political positions of the non-mental ones will be bolstered by having the OCPB around.
 
I wonder how long Paul (or another vetted OL) will have to stick around new recruits before they can go off on their own? I mean, it'd be purest foolishness to not have an experienced OL immediately on hand while recruits get used to the orange light. Nobody wants another Larfleeze and I doubt that Paul would be even a little okay with having a remote off switch installed so hands on training would appear to be the order of the day.
 
They said something about God judging Egypt as a whole group and not a collection of individuals, like he favors his chosen people the Israelites. I pointed out that that rather contradicts the whole "free will" thing, and that their God is supposed to be merciful.
What those people could've said is, "As is the king, so are his subjects," which, historically, has been true of civilizations worldwide. The king represents his people, and they throw their lot in with him. Ruler makes terrible decisions -> people under his banner suffer. Cause and effect.

Mercy doesn't equal "never passing judgement." The pharaoh was technically given ten chances to change his mind when he was in direct opposition to the whole "let my people go" thing, and he knew exactly what he was saying. Most people have a hard time scrounging up the mercy to give anyone just one chance for something they did on accident.

...I tend to go on about the OT. Dunno how it all went down in the DC universe, considering what they do with Greek mythology, but I doubt it was the same if Hellblazer is any clue—the SI's magician Moses may well be a thing.
 
He can phone Guy from anywhere. Other forms of communication would involve a lag, potentially a substantial one.
And Guy's Awesome Power Ring cannot forward messages to the League/Team's network because…?

I admit it wouldn't be instant real-time communication but it is hardly worse than email.

After Doctor Fate was back, Klarion mind-controlled the League. Including Doctor Fate
No he did not. A sleeper agent mole armed with alien-nano-magitech mind-controlled the League. Klarion was just the interface for a plan conceived of, organised and implemented by other people.

I wonder how long Paul (or another vetted OL) will have to stick around new recruits before they can go off on their own? I mean, it'd be purest foolishness to not have an experienced OL immediately on hand while recruits get used to the orange light. Nobody wants another Larfleeze and I doubt that Paul would be even a little okay with having a remote off switch installed so hands on training would appear to be the order of the day.
As I recall the plan is to have recruits brought to the base, trained/conditioned and then enter the Central Battery to be Enlightened (or destroyed in failure) before they are even allowed to touch a Ring. Presumably there will then be some training in how to use it before they are sent off.
 
And Guy's Awesome Power Ring cannot forward messages to the League/Team's network because…?
Because he might well not be on Earth. And he might be a bit narked about the Nabu conflict.
No he did not. A sleeper agent mole armed with alien-nano-magitech mind-controlled the League. Klarion was just the interface for a plan conceived of, organised and implemented by other people.
No, his magic was a vital component of the tech. See 'Insecurity'.
As I recall the plan is to have recruits brought to the base, trained/conditioned and then enter the Central Battery to be Enlightened (or destroyed in failure) before they are even allowed to touch a Ring. Presumably there will then be some training in how to use it before they are sent off.
That would utterly destroy almost everyone who tried it. They're going to get training before receiving rings, certainly, but direct exposure to the OCPB would only ever be a veterans only thing.
 
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Yes, they're horrible suggestions. However, I'd consider giving the ring to Ra's al Ghul to be significantly better than giving it to the Controllers (better chance of only genociding one planet), so destroying it or giving it to Ganthet seems even better.
I mentioned this in my previous comment, but what do you expect a single power ring to give them that they don't already have, considering that the Maltusians were the ones to invent power rings? Zoat just said that Maltusians have many of the same abilities that power rings do in addition to others.
Not exactly. All of the Controllers who thought those things were good ideas are still around, and I suspect that the SI will be butting heads with them. The difference is that there are many other Controllers, and the political positions of the non-mental ones will be bolstered by having the OCPB around.
Huh, that's actually a pretty clever explanation for it.
What those people could've said is, "As is the king, so are his subjects," which, historically, has been true of civilizations worldwide. The king represents his people, and they throw their lot in with him. Ruler makes terrible decisions -> people under his banner suffer. Cause and effect.

Mercy doesn't equal "never passing judgement." The pharaoh was technically given ten chances to change his mind when he was in direct opposition to the whole "let my people go" thing, and he knew exactly what he was saying. Most people have a hard time scrounging up the mercy to give anyone just one chance for something they did on accident.

...I tend to go on about the OT. Dunno how it all went down in the DC universe, considering what they do with Greek mythology, but I doubt it was the same if Hellblazer is any clue—the SI's magician Moses may well be a thing.
While I disagree, this thread isn't the place for it. PM me if you want to continue discussing this, but I'm rather ambivalent about it.
As I recall the plan is to have recruits brought to the base, trained/conditioned and then enter the Central Battery to be Enlightened (or destroyed in failure) before they are even allowed to touch a Ring. Presumably there will then be some training in how to use it before they are sent off.
I'm fairly sure that isn't how it will happen. For one, the orange central battery, unlike all the others, is tiny. Certainly to small for a normal sized human to fit in through the aperture, and in the comics it's too small to fit your torso through.

Second, in the Fool's Canon future vision, the SI mentioned that a few of his fellow lanterns had even achieved enlightenment. Certainly not all.
 
Because he might well not be on Earth. And he might be a bit narked about the Nabu conflict.
The first is an inconvenience and the second really doesn't fit the characters or interactions.
Guy might be annoyed but he isn't going to keep Paul from contacting his friends.

No, his magic was a vital component of the tech. See 'Insecurity'.
Magic was one of many vital components. No indication that Klarion's chaos magic was specifically required. And given that Brain is their R&D guy I doubt the Which Boy had any more involvement than being the power source.

That would utterly destroy almost everyone who tried it. They're going to get training before receiving rings, certainly, but direct exposure to the OCPB would only ever be a veterans only thing.
Seems like a good idea actually. Almost anyone getting an Orange Ring is a disaster waiting (briefly) to happen. Thus almost certain destruction is a decent screening process.

Also I'm pretty sure you said they would be doing something similar to what the Green and Yellow lanterns do as their 'elite test', which is throw people into the CPB. If you meant something else then I do apologise.
 
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I mentioned this in my previous comment, but what do you expect a single power ring to give them that they don't already have, considering that the Maltusians were the ones to invent power rings? Zoat just said that Maltusians have many of the same abilities that power rings do in addition to others.

A single power ring + a lantern (that currently has Ophidian in it)? Quite a bit.

They might be able to create power rings, but they don't have access to the orange light. In fact, their mastery of the tech makes it even worse, because they know how to take full advantage of it.

As far as Paul knows, the Controllers have a good, but vague idea... execution on the idea ranging from 'poor' to 'not quite good enough but close'... and unlike most other factions of similar power, they have proven willing to compromise, willing to change, and from the situation around the Miracle Machine their long-term prospects seem to be somewhat good/Good.

Huh? What "good but vague idea" do you think the Controllers stand for?

I mean, it's right there in the name. They want to be in control. Of everything. If you're comparing philosophies and intent, the Guardians have the Controllers beat by a mile. (C'mon, again, it's right in the name.)

They're Order to the Nth degree, Vorlons cranked to 11. If you think that it's a problem how much control the Guardians exercise over the GLC, then the Controllers are the last people you want anything to have to do with. The Controllers had a GLC-style organization, and ended up letting its members die because they were too independent.

I mean... The Controllers also abandoned several plans because they decided that using Sun-Eaters involved too much killing.

Er, kind of. They decided against using Sun-Eaters to indiscriminately destroy an entire galaxy... after enslaving the planet and forcing its inhabitants to build a factory to do exactly that, and then having second thoughts. That's... not exactly a stirring endorsement.

This is a Controller:

And sure, he's (probably) a renegade Controller who went a little too far, and there have been points when the Guardians got this bad (mostly new 52, which doesn't exist)... after millenia of trying and failing to bring order to the universe through limited means. The Controllers started there.
 
Also I'm pretty sure you said they would be doing something similar to what the Green and Yellow lanterns do as their 'elite test', which is throw people into the CPB. If you meant something else then I do apologise.
Yeah, as an elite test. Not as an initial one. Personally I would assume 6 months/1 year of ringless training at whatever OLC headquarters ends up being and then another 6 months/1 year tag-along training with a veteran corpsman after the newbie gets a ring.
Enlightenment as a requirement for the tag-along trainers might be a decent idea if it's practical.
 
I personally suspect that galaxy line is the result of the writer not knowing the difference between 'galaxy' and 'solar system'.
 
Also, how can everything be perfect for everyone? Suppose my best friend is an atheist. So obviously he won't be there. Won't I be sad about him burning in hellfire for all eternity? If I'm not sad, then something drastic has happened to my personality.
This isn't really the place for a long discussion of the topic, but if you're interested in reading up on what actual church fathers thought on the subject I would recommend the writings of Polycarp, Justin Martyr, and Tertullian. Then to get a more Protestant view, the writings of Martin Luther and John Calvin.

Suffice it to say that everyone had a different take on it, none of which agreed with each other's, and they were all fairly horrific to any modern sensibilities.

For a more concise and entertaining explanation of these topics I would suggest Dr. Robert Price's podcast "The Bible Geek".
As long as he stays off of modern political topics he's usually deeply engaging and informative. He even goes out of his way to mention when, why, and how his own interpretation of a text might differ from the current mainstream one when that happens.
 
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I personally suspect that galaxy line is the result of the writer not knowing the difference between 'galaxy' and 'solar system'.
They both have stars and orbits, right? :V
I note that depending on how the whole things with Krona and 'antimatter universes' and 'the creation of Evil and Entropy' played out, the implied 'destroyed entire alternate universes for being evil using a multiversal portal planet' may have actually been a quite reasonable and measured response to some of them. Of course, I think both that and the slave-factory planet are no longer fully canon, or at least not canon-as-originally-described.
Comic book canon is stupid like that, though the ideas are often interesting.
... At least, I hope that antimatter doesn't cause people to start doing evil-for-the-sake-of-evil?


Controllers vs. Guardians, a moral examination:
Let me start with this: The Guardians have done a lot of good. The Green Lantern Corps does a lot of good, and the Guardians have set up rules and leadership for the Corps that help them do it. They have made compromises - a near-absolute prohibition against killing (though they break it in secret,) strict limits on technology-sharing (and stricter still on uplift,) and keeping secrets about failures and unpleasant decisions. But by those compromises they have created a Corps which is, mostly, a force for good many thousands strong, each individual a person of immense power and conviction.

The thing is... the Guardians have enslaved species too. They've annihilated people too. They want to control the galaxy too.
They just say, "For their own good." and "While respecting their rights." But they determine what is good, and what the line is between rights and privileges... and 'Doesn't make trouble for the Guardians' and 'Doesn't develop anything powerful enough to challenge the Guardians' are suspiciously often factors in that.
The Controllers, because they are not beholden on a Doylist level to being the Green Lantern Leaders, just say it in supervillain-language instead of superhero-language. I think in both cases they're anti-heroes on a mind-boggling scale of operation; not unreasonable, precisely, so much as... not-always-but-sometimes careless with the galaxy-spanning power they exercise. And I level that opinion at both of them; the Controllers have done some really stupid stuff (although if Effigy hasn't happened yet then they're currently in a period where they're quite reasonable - they're coming out of their old stupid plans, and haven't yet started on the new stupid plans, and so there is a window of opportunity to keep them on good plans and push them towards truly great ones.)
Remember that the Corpse uses Compassion-purple energy to kill. It's not called 'indigo' but I took a look at some of the art, and... it sure looks like the Guardians have their assassins framing pacifist healers for murder.
Remember that the 'go into the Green Central Power Battery' test speaks of the universe being pure Will and Imagination. This is the world the Guardians then envision:
No hate. No want. No fear. No death.
No hope. No kindness. No love. No life.
Minds in orbit around matter, observing and deciding without reference to 'base urges' like revenge or greed or 'intangible ideals' like justice or beauty.
 
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